Damn thats a great connection. I love blood meridian. Honestly all of the cormac mccarthy books ive read have banged but that one is by far the most memorable
Although ogres aren't heavily mentioned in Dark Souls lore, Smough has a lot of traits of classic depictions of ogres. They're of giant stature but not proper giants. They are human-like but shunned by humans. They are cannibalistic, or well, man eaters, especially of men's bones. And they usually have magic of some kind (the original "le ogre" of Puss in Boots was a magician-king as well as a giant.) So Smough has a lot of attributes of ogres. He was used for his immense strength. He was used for an unsavory task but apparently he was tolerated because he was good at it. He was allowed even to indulge his abominable appetite, which implies he was "too big to fail" i.e. too useful to get rid of. He is the eternal outsider, who is always utilized and always just outside the door of being a real member of the court. He is the pair of Ornstein, one of the knights of Gwyn, but he will never be a true knight. It would break my heart if he wasn't such an evil bastard.
Best character in gaming bar none. Nothing says tragic like cannot become a knight because he a cannibal! Poor Smough, he never lets anything go to waste!
@@TheHonoredMadman Excuse my intrusion. I had forgotten to include this part. I apologise for the annoyance. There is, in fact, one problem with the idea that Havel was part of the Occult plot: We have no way of knowing the man in the tower is Havel. The ring worn by the warrior inside isn't a ring of " Bishop Havel", but rather, in the original Japanese, it is a ring of the " priests of Havel". Both this knight and every " Havel" We meet in each game wears this set; the ring, the armour and the weapons. All of them are essentially the same; there is nothing that distinguishes this " Havel" inside the tower from the others. "Apparel worn by Havel the Rock's warriors. Carved from solid rock, its tremendous weight is matched only by the defense it provides." The picture painted is simple; The man in the tower was a warrior priest of Havel. Likely one of many. As for the Occult Club along with the Havel set, think about it like this: As I have stated, the set used by "Havel" is not unique to him, and is worn by dozens of others, all of them priests of Havel. Havel himself was a trusted compatriot of Lord Gwyn, and thus, his priests were offered the same trust as well. As such, the one who hid this set along with the Occult Club had a simple goal; They were leaving tools for someone to infiltrate Anor Londo under the disguise of a Havel priest. This was most likely part of the attempted Occult rebellion. As for who was actually behind it, that's a story for another day.. But I do think Undead were involved. P.S, that remix was actually fire. I didn't know how they could fit together so well.
Smough has always been one of those characters in dark souls that I find fascinating- did he consume humans only in order to attempt to grow to the strength of the knights of Gwyn only to be denied, Or was he always a cannibal? Most likely the latter, but interesting to think about none the less. Great vid as always!
Regardless of his morals, Smough still put himself to task against Pontiff Sullyvahn and Aldrich. He fought two of the evilest characters in all of Souls lore, arguably worse evils than what we've seen in other Fromsoft games, and he needs to be commended for that. I do have on theory though. If the fight vs Super Smough absorbing the possibly fake Ornstein is the canon version of the fight, that means Smough carries lightning damage. Aldrich is weak to Lightning Damage and Smough doesn't seem to be consumed by Aldrich. So I think Sullyvahn himself might have been the one to kill Smough. He has the perfect weapons and skills to do it; being too fast for Smough to hit and being *far* more powerful than Gwyn's knights would have been at this point (sans Artorias but that's a huge MAYBE.) means that Smough is feeling the damage. I think in a sad tale of ironic tragedy, Smough's loyalty to Anor Londo made the Pontiff target him specifically. I can imagine Smough would have put up a much better fight versus Aldrich assuming he really did absord some of Ornstein's power, but because he couldn't be decieved or made to betray The Gods it made Pontiff Sullyvahn take him as a serious threat that he saw to take care of personally. Either way, monster he may be, he died like a man.
Why does an action of self interest or irrational conceit deserve praise? He has no good intentions with what he does, therefore, his action has no value.
I've never thought of the Giant Lord comparison before; great idea. Much less convoluted than others. In regards to the " illusions" of Anor Londo, a good way to examine them would be to examine their logic as sorcery. In other words, how does Gwyndolin, as a sorcerer, manifest them all? What is the mechanism? Three words. " Light is time." You may have heard this theory before, but in essence, the problem with simply classifying Anor Londo per DS1 as an illusion appears in various forms. " illusory" enemies drop souls; they're alive. That, or they wouldn't drop souls. As such, the solution presented is simple: They are real. Repair as a spell does not cast an " illusion" over an object. It simply " returns" the object to a previous state of being. In Anor Londo's case, it is being kept at the specific moments before Gwynevere's own departure, and the abandonment of Anor Londo. This process is by no means perfect. The homes in Anor Londo are still empty. Most of the Silver Knights remain after the dispelling of the illusion, indicating them to be real. The batwing Demon that escorts you to and from Sen's Fortress is still there. In other words, not all of Anor Londo is illusory; all of it is merely carefully made to look deceptively...alive. Again, more guards. More escorts. More everything. The Old Dragonslayer is said by the developers to not be Ornstein. He is, in a word, an in-universe " biggest fan". That said, he is no less important; his appearance in Heide indicates the connection between it and Anor Londo, and his existence, along with the skeletons filling the Grave Of Saints, may have been some of our first glimpses into a certain race: Irithyllians. Irithyllians held the features of the old gods, collected from across the world as children according to their description, taken to the Boreal Valley. They once constituted the population of the city of Irithyll, ruled by Gwyndolin, now known as " Chief God", in the same manner as Allfather Lloyd is in Japanese. The Cathedral wasn't abandoned for long; soon, it was filled with new knights,new guards, new supplicants. These new denizens of the city of the gods likely never knew a Knight besides Smough himself.... But make no mistake. No matter how godly they appear, Irithyllians are no less human than ourselves. Indeed, one was born in Irithyll by a certain name... Aldrich. Aldrich, like many of his kind, took on the habit of a cleric, and went out into the world to help the poor and suffering, spreading the good word of the Nameless Moon and the Way Of Blue and White.... Only, his " help" became quite unique. It is not known what precisely caused Aldrich's turn. Perhaps he did it specifically because he was, in truth, no champion. He wished to link the Fire, but could not. In any other world, he'd have simple been an Ashen One. A failure. Perhaps, he was inspired by the only Knight he knew in the grand cathedral, back when he was but a wee child.. But enough about him. Notes: 1. Smough in the Japanese version is noted not to have merely grinded bones, but to have devoured the " flesh and blood" of his victims. 2. Regarding his species, he may be a hybrid of some sort; his body shape under the armour is less...broad than a Giant would be. In fact, he seems positively sculpted; a mark of Lordly descent. 3. The Nameless King is unlikely to have committed treachery against his father; by the time we see him,he had recieved a custom version of Gwyn's own set. That, and he left Sunlight Blade on his father's grave. That said, I do believe he was involved in some suspicious stuff, but that's a discussion for another day.
There are some misunderstandings here, not because of you, but because of the community's interpretation of the lore. In Smough's hammer description, it mentions that "he grounded the bones of his victims in his own feed". It doesn't say that Smough is human, so the point that he is a cannibal is flimsy even with the four main clans being humanoid (God/Giant/Shaman/Pygmy). When it comes to eating specifically, the reason he ruined his ascension is because eating is specifically tied to beings of Dark nature. Poisonbite/Bloodbite/Cursebite, Gnaw, Corrosion, bugs eating everything, locust preachers telling you to let the feast begin, all of it is about gaining power through eating. That's what separates the gods from humans as the gods burn for power instead. Smough eating for power leads to insatiable greed, and Gwyn feared that as that Dark power would eventually turn on him. As for Ornstein, yeah that isn't him in DS1. Unlike Smough, Ornstein has a shard of his soul in an armor set of his (or at least a shard recreation). In Dark Souls you don't need a body to be of the material world, you can just be a soul in an armor set. It is why you come across terms like vessel for souls. The Ruin Sentinels would be a good comparison to Ornstein in DS1 and DS2. Souls controlling or possessing inanimate objects is rooted in Shinto, which is the main religion of Japan. Once you understand that, a lot of the workings in Dark Souls make way more sense.
"Smough eating for power leads to insatiable greed, and Gwyn feared that as that Dark power would eventually turn on him." I have not read a single item description in the game which alludes to Smough eating for power, is there something in the game which states this or is this just conjecture?
@@ryanmcw7878 Conjecture with some basis. Smough's Hammer returns HP with hits, as does the Butcher's Knife, as does Arstor's Spear, as does the Pontiff's Left Eye, as does one Aldrich's Rings( with certain hits). They all imply either cannibalism, foul play or both. They and others form a chain of items that specify a theme; Consuming others in the literal sense (rather than just the metaphorical as with souls) grants power. As such, it's solid enough to consider a valid point.
@@ryanmcw7878 You've misunderstood what I'm saying. When it comes to power, the more souls you absorb the more powerful you become. Smough ground down his victims bones to mix in with his feed. That is him gaining power through eating. That is an issue for Gwyn because eating for power is Dark in nature. That's why Aldrich is a lord of cinder, because he gained power through the consumption of humans.
Imagine you go to get executed, expecting to get head chopped of. Then when you get to the execution you just see this mf waiting with his dumb looking hammer. And hes laughing like Jarek in mortal Kombat 4
Never thought much of the wing knights but very good observation, i always shook it off as we have catirena armour, maybe fat suits be in style. I always head cannoned smough gave a hell of a fight to pontiff and aldritch, but got ate, like alot of other things. However smough eating his enemys could be a reference to the dregs of humanity as talked about with the deep? Too high to go further
One thing to mention is that while he was not accepted as one of Gwyn's knight, he was allowed to stay toe to toe with Ornstein, it is not necessairily stated that he is disrespected
ive watched this vid and your other most recent. through them both I enjoy that you never chalk up an unknown to" a developer oversight" or" that's just how it was written " helps everything feel conclusive and with weight
I like this theory that maybe in his last moments, Smough was a noble, heroic figure. Cannibal, betrayer, psychopath, but a true golden knight standing his ground against unknown evil.
Smough was definitely a big ass dude, but that doesn't immediately imply he's a giant. I mean, have people SEEN how giant Gwynevere's br- I mean height is?
Hearing your theory made me think... yes Smough might have changed over time, i mean thousands of years have passed, staying his post as the last knight and maybe he met his end at maw of Aldritch eaten alive... while defending the last royals ..
I subscribe to the "Time is convoluted' theory. The protagonist of DS1 killed Ornstein and Smough, but that's a different timeline from the Ornstein and Smough talked about in DS3. It's like when Trunks went back to change the future in DBZ. He changed that future, but not his original one. Killing the Androids and Cell in that version of the past didn't make them disappear in his own world. Hence, Ornstein can be both alive and dead in a similar fashion. He was killed, but not in every version of existence.
I still don't understand the Cathedral of Deep's motivations. Aldrich was in the way of white, and The Deep just seems like another name for The Dark, just ocean themed.
They started out guarding the world from the abominations that were birthed in the Deep, but eventually became corrupted by it and started to worship it instead.
The way I understood it Aldrich was not given to the Flame because of his cannibalism. It was mostly approved of by his deacons and was even helped along by the likes of the Evangelists and such. Royce and others followed his example and vision. He was chosen because of all the strength and soul power he had eventually accumulated through his cannibalistic practices.
The ds3 iten descriptions could be referring to the current state of the cathedral ,not necessarily that it was ruined when Orntein left Smough as the sole defender
Very cool video 10:43 or motivated by his desire to eat 😂 But seriously, regardless of his motivations, he could have fled long ago but I think he had his own sense of loyalty to the royal family. I don't see him as being a particularly bright guy so that makes it a bit more sad.
Honestly, I don't feel like it is as open ended as folks take it for. My head canon was that he died fighting the Chosen Undead alongside an Ornstein Illusion. His Hammer is stored in a chest alongside the Leo Ring and Divine Blessing in what I call, the Irithyll Muesum because of all the pictures from previous games. Those 3 items are symbolic of that whole deception, a deception that allowed Gywndolin to revive Anor Londo as Irithyll. Since Smough is technically martyred for the cause of relinking the fire a more favorable version of events is laid out to make him seem more esteemed it just so happens to actually be more honest. I take this standpoint because their really isn't anything out there to believe Smough is around after DS1. When it comes to Ornstein we get whatever that was in Dark Souls 2 and then more info about him in DS3. It makes it easy to accept, Smough stood with an illusion since Ornstein keeps coming up. When Smough is brought up in DS3, it really doesn't tell us anything new about him. It rehashes what happened in DS1. Regardless of how "ruined" or "abandoned" the Cathedral is in one story verse another it always breaks down to: Smough was in a dingy(it was/is) building standing guard. But they never give us anything that is very distinctly and unquestionably new or after DS1 for him. For a while I thought he might have been Aldritch but then I realized that no one who dies comes back in the game. Some folks might try to say Manus but I argue the shards aren't Manus. They are separate people made from Manus. We never actually have an example of someone properly coming back. Even the junk about the 4 souls in DS2, the beings who held those souls were only vaguely like the predecessors. Also stopped believing the theories of characters renaming themselves. I use to think Rosaria was Gywnevre but then I realized, no one ever expressly changes their name in the lore. Not to mention name recognition is important in politics and divinity so why would gods change their names. Even if she was marrying into a Royal family she is technically one of the highest nobility being the eldest, recognized child, of King-God Godking Gwyn. Any husband she takes would want to take her name for their line to show how ancient and divine their lineage has become. And doing so technically means they are declaring themselves a god. Heck Gywn's firstborn got his name taken and here we are eon's later by DS3 and he is still called Nameless. If anyone would have a different name by the later games wouldn't it be him? There is never a clear text or dialogue like the cut content revealing Miquella is St. Trina. Or hidden statue with a message saying Radagon is Marika. Nothing like Godfrey announcing himself as first Elden Lord and then later changing his mind that he is now Hourah Loux WARRIOR!!!. There really is nothing that clarifies to any degree that anyone in Dark Souls is really someone else under another name.
What song is that at the beginning? Also, love the channel. Definitely as good as (if not better than) Vaatividya’s videos. I enjoy how Honored Madman can come up with multiple plausible theories to a single event. Criminally underrated channel.
I cant take credit for most of these theories, alot have been circlulating the community for awhile but i like to try and put my own twist on them when i can. And i always like to give a few possible theories to any given event when plausible. Thank you i really appreciate the feedback
I thought Aldrich was Smough's half-brother. Aldrich is born of a human father and human mother, Smough is born of a giant father and the same human mother.
That would depend on how old Aldrich is. We know he was born in Irithyll, and later became a cleric of some reputation. This would also depend on whether Smough himself possesses human heritage.
You know something about you has been bugging me and I finally realized it. You sound like a more laid back Vageta311, that legendary Dark Souls ace. Okay that's it, carry on lol. ED: This video is a mood.
Okay, so in defense of Smough, a common theory is of course that Ornstein was just an illusion during the in-game fight. Smough would undoubtedly know this, either because he was explicitly told or just figured it out- if you fought and worked alongside someone for decades, probably also living in the same quarters and spending your downtime with them, you'd know if there was something up with them. When Smough smashes his hammer down on Ornstein, its because he knows Ornstein isnt real, he knows he's basically fighting alongside an automaton or, essentially, and NPC.
17:05 sorry to comment again but I have a hard time accepting Havel turned traitor. He might have done some bold deed in an attempt to f**k Seeth over and maybe then it was decided that Seeth was more important than Havel. Maybe Seeth gave Gwyn an ultimatim. "Look bro this Havel guy is gonna try and kill me, you gotta lock him up or i won't help you." So Gwyn was like damn dude ok and actually HE betrayed Havel, Havel who remained loyal. And he was rewarded with fancy new apartments in a nice tower...or so he thought. Gwyn was probably like "Havel hey bro I'm really happy with you my puissant warrior. Go check out this sweet pad I hooked you up with." Havel, being the big sweet man he is, entered and was about to turn around and thank Gwyn, when he heard a door slam, and a lock click.
The thing is in Havel's room blocked by an illusionary wall not only can you find an extra set of his stone armor along with his iconic dragon tooth hammer, but an occult weapon as well. This alone would make him suspect in being against the gods when you have a weapon specifically designed to kill them, within Anor Londo no less.
I agree. There is, in fact, one problem with the idea that Havel was part of the Occult plot: We have no way of knowing the man in the tower is Havel. The ring worn by the warrior inside isn't a ring of " Bishop Havel", but rather, in the original Japanese, it is a ring of the " priests of Havel". Both this knight and every " Havel" We meet in each game wears this set; the ring, the armour and the weapons. All of them are essentially the same; there is nothing that distinguishes this " Havel" inside the tower from the others. "Apparel worn by Havel the Rock's warriors. Carved from solid rock, its tremendous weight is matched only by the defense it provides." The picture painted is simple; The man in the tower was a warrior priest of Havel. Likely one of many. As for the Occult Club along with the Havel set, think about it like this: As I have stated, the set used by "Havel" is not unique to him, and is worn by dozens of others, all of them priests of Havel. Havel himself was a trusted compatriot of Lord Gwyn, and thus, his priests were offered the same trust as well. As such, the one who hid this set along with the Occult Club had a simple goal; They were leaving tools for someone to infiltrate Anor Londo under the disguise of a Havel priest. This was most likely part of the attempted Occult rebellion. As for who was actually behind it, that's a story for another day.. But I do think Undead were involved.
@@alyseleem2692 Thank you so much for reminding me of this theory. I knew there was some reason for me thinking it wasn't Havel himself and this theory was why. Maybe Havel convinced others of his suspiscions or he already had followers due to his station as a champion of the gods
@@ThommyofThenn That's the thing; the problem with considering Havel a member of the plot is,simply put, motive. The common assumption , thanks to faulty translation, is that Havel was a human; after all, how else could he be a bishop? Turns out, he isn't. Again, the ring is worn by "priests of Havel". What is the conclusion? Havel is a god. It makes sense. His weapons are "divine heirlooms"; he himself is a battle compatriot of Gwyn. As in, Dragon wars. As in, humanity as we know it did not yet exist; they were all still pygmies without a city yet. As such, the problem would be; If Havel was a god,why would he aid a plot against the gods? Why destroy the establishment that keeps him up top? For Seath? For petty revenge? Gods are many things, but they aren't stupid. No; the plot was a coordinated act against the gods and the Lords specifically. Pinwheel down in the Catacombs; a spy in Havel's armour up in Anor Londo. Who would plan it? The Catacombs, as you may recall, are right behind Firelink Shrine. If we imagine both before their ruin, it forms a somewhat complete picture; a house of worship, directly next to a sacred burial ground. Statues with the masks held by Pinwheel line the Catacombs; both they and the Shrine were of signifcance; Pinwheel entered dressed in the holy symbols of the place, even though he was naught but an Undead necromancer, come to plunder. A false priest. "Dost thou the gods serve, or merely that role affect?" But who? Who sent him and why? Below the Shrine, the elevator takes us to one place: New Londo. And from there, the pages unfurl; a shortcut to Blighttown and the bell; another to Darkroot Basin and the tower within. Who do you think would possess the best motive for such a plot? The time and tools for such arrangements? "Soul of one of the Four Kings, who fell to the Dark. A fragment of a Lord Soul discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire. Lord Gwyn recognized the foresight of these four great leaders of New Londo, and granted them their ranks and the fragments of a great soul. Although this is not a full Lord Soul, it can still satiate the Lordvessel"
Doesn't Smough hammer/armor make mention of him being the last defender? Edit: in DS3 Edit edit: i suppose its a matter of semantics. I liked to think he was the last defender even in DS1, but it does have merit that ornstien didn't leave until after ds1
One problem. How could Ore and Smo revive after dying? Only hollows/cursed undead revive, not humans or the gods race that they may be a part of. They don’t behave like hollows either, and I’ve never heard anyone propose that they were undead.
Hands down he is the gatekeeper for the dark souls series as a whole if you can get past this ..thicc boy... There is nothing that can stop you in this series.... One thing I always thought was very interesting was despite the decrepit State the world is in he is one of the very few executioner's that is extremely high up on the totem pole of the army of gywn normally executioners are shunned slated to live on the outskirts or outside of town not normally guarding a apparition of the queen.... But hey I'm just a random person making a comment
