always back up jack stands by leaving a hydraulic floor jack engaged under the car near where you are working. Jack stands plus floor jack makes Jack a safe boy.
jesuisravi, that is exactly the trick that i was taught in college auto shop. leave the hydraulic jack in place, almost touching and tighten the valve. and always on the side of the car, or end you are working on.
an additional note. I was always taught, if you remove a tire, especially if you are using a jack with no jack stand, place the tire you took off, under the vehicle. This gives you an extra layer of protection.
I was in the middle of putting the wheel back in place on my SUV when my jack gave out. I saw it slip out of the corner of my eye. I backed up before it completely collapsed. The SUV leaned towards me but was stopped by the tire hitting the wheel well and the rotor catching the inside edge of the rim. Scariest moment of my life. I haven't done any work that requires me to lift up the SUV since. Let a shop handle that.
I do this with a stand and the jack putting very light pressure, just touching. I also never ever tilt my garage jack so I have no air in my hydraulics.
To anyone reading this : Get a Jack stand with the extra safety pin (that's on a little ring chain) the pin slips through as a backup. Also don't forget to bend the jack stand safety pin. Also putting a tire, block of wood or something in other areas might be a extra safety measure, Don't forget wheel Chalks to block off the wheels.
Excellent video. Regarding the extra safety mentioned above , I noticed the gentleman in the video is using a Pittsburgh ( HarborFreight) jack stand. The new ones they manufacture now (Daytona) do have the extra safety pin attached to the jack stand. On these new ones one MUST intentionally take the pin out in order to lower the jack stand. Just FYI. After watching this video I upgraded my jack stands to the new ones .
I always back it up with a floor jack slightly pumped to share the load. Chances of both failing at once is next to impossible, unless there is a hit-man out for you. Place in gear, park and parking brake and of course wheel chocks. Be safe guys...
“Doing this to your jack stands will get you killed”: If by that you mean don’t apply a pry bar tto a jack stand handle and apply 1000lbs of pressure while lying under the car, then i would agree. Also don’t use a sledgehammer and swing directly at the jack stand while under the car either. Also don’t tie a chain to the jack stand and the other end of the chain to a moving vehicle. also....
One could interpret the title of the video as clickbait... but it could also be that the OP wants to make it clear how dangerous improperly replicating the experiment could be.
The "safety" pin inside is supposed to break..... That was literally what he was testing. He was checking to see what needs to be done to lift it, he got it to lift and the pin that was supposed to break, didn't.
cool experiment. But this is what i don't get. Even if the guy did bump it and make it drop....it's STILL ON jackstands...just lower. That jackstand would have to be knocked out from under the car too. In other words the car itself would have to completely fall off of the stands which tells me it wasn't put in the correct spot to begin with (or on a sturdy, level surface) So i don't get how he got crushed simply from this stand getting lowered a few inches (although i would crap my pants for sure) :D
What's up Steve, I'm a big fan and subscriber to your channel, it's a dream of mine to have you do the audio on my car one day. it would be like having Bruce Lee teach you how to fight! love your work brother keep it up.
he could have been under one side of the car where the jacks are either 2 in front or 2 in back, basically he would be coming in from the left or right side of the car. THEN knocking out the one jack from the side he's on could have the car come down on his face WHILE the other jack is still in place.
After 40 years of working on everything from heavy equipment to cars. I’ve never had a jack fail that way. I’ve bent stands and had welds break. I’ve even had hydraulics leak , blow apart but never have I had a jack stand fall because I hit the lever. The most dangerous thing that scares me is bumper jacks. My dad used to worry about killer wheels somebody he worked with got hurt by one of those. I’ve been around a shop since I could stand.
@@stevebean1234 old buses and some trucks used to have a rim that was two pieces. They had bolts to hold the two halves together. What would happen is the bolts would fail and the rims would kill people. They were the reason they made tire cages. Very dangerous, still you do see them sometimes especially in other countries.
Yeap same here as as set, the weight on the cradle of the jack prevents you from bumping it loose. In the porsche car, he probably did have the jack set right . Even with 500lbs on the cradle, your ARE NOT bumping a quality jack loose.
He covered the details... but mythbusters on the other hand, some of their episodes were pretty bad. Then again, I understand they were doing it for TV.
Dont use cement senter blocks i did an lucky me had to use bathroom came back was abought to get underneath car an bam block broke god was watching over me for sure
I always use a jack stand with my floor jacks. If I have to get under the car, i use two or more. There is nothing wrong with over doing safety, when your own car can crush you.
I have had floor jacks spring a leak and release on me before, thankfully on a car that did not sit so low to the ground it hurt me. Never rely on them.
theory ---- " no way you can accidentally hit your thumb that hard with a hammer " .... is there something wrong with that statement? so there is a way to hit a jack-stand handle accidentally. there are also ways to avoid such encounters from happening.
HUH? --- I will slow this down for you Pavlo95 1 month ago, stated "no way you can accidentally hit it that hard with a hammer " this person has either never swung a hammer or does not ever miss... the BFH ( a BFH = Big F'n Hammer) I have used on a car has enough mass and inertia to move something that need to be removed, but I make sure that I am safe if something goes wrong... still too fast for you Karl... ?
accidentally hitting your thumb with a hammer is easy/common, you're holding the nail with your thumb, in no easy/common situation should you be hitting a jack-stand with a hammer while underneath it. you're making connections that don't connect unless your making leaps in your brain that you are failing to articulate. now your response to me makes even less sense than the first.
Agreed. It's not just hitting it with a hammer, it's the fact that it has to be done with an upward motion from a clearance height of about 6". When he hits the jack stand with a hammer it's in the press with plenty of clearance below the arm. It's not in it's natural state sitting on the ground with no clearance to swing the hammer from underneath. It's much more likely to be done with leverage like a breaker bar or accidentally getting something wedged under it. A good example would be working with an exhaust component, thinking it's stuck, and trying to force it out when it's actually caught under the pawl arm of the jack stand. That might do it. Has to be something that causes leverage to be applied to the arm from underneath. If you are working under the car on your back a hammer is not going to cause it, has to be a lever and a whole lot of carelessness (usually from lack of experience or caution).
Using the same 2.36 piston setup would require him to double the air pressure to go from 500 to 1000 pounds of simulated weight. Since 500 required 115 psi, 1000 would require 230 psi...... The highest air compressor pressure I've seen was 175. That was scary as fuck.
Stuart Hall Doubling the area of the 2.36 piston would produce the same result as doubling air pressure. That comes to approx. 3.334 dia piston. Increasing the piston diameter 30%, doubled the area....pie are square
Good experiment. One set of jack stands I have are made by excello where the lever actually has to move upward in a curved slot to release. I’ve complained about them, but this video tells me that feature is a very nice one to have. The base of these stands is solid plate on all 4 sides. They’re quite heavy too, but I think they are well-built. I’ve had them for about 30 years.
I'm a freak under cars so here a good way to be super safe. I usually work with either the car on 4 stands or only 2 (front/rear). After placing the stands, I keep my jack under and I will then use the wheels as another safety put them under the car.
I also put the 16x8x4 SOLID concrete blocks under it TO THE FRAME. I damn sure have never needed to use algebra and calculators to get my shit to stay up.....no Viagra either .... CIALIS !!!! LOL !!! PLEASE... DON'T EVER USE CINDER BLOCKS, they are WIDOW MAKERS.
I think it's important to know that the pin is probably not a shear pin, but a steel roll pin. The steel roll pin is designed to hold components im alignment, not to act as a safety device. I have jack stands that are substantially similar and the pins are steel roll pins, not shear pins.
Sooooo.... I shouldn't hit the jack stand release while I'm under the vehicle. Got it. I'll add this knowledge to the previous bits such as: coffee=hot and no hairdryer in the bathtub.
Maybe if you understood basic physics it would help.... and more to the point if you understood that the entire controversial video is designed just to get 'clicks', it would help.
the bad ones need very little movement to collapse. Also, they have a 2nd failure mode, which is the actual cause of the recall: when you wiggle the load, they just collapse. Nothing to do with kicking the handle.
And three of the pttsburghs been recalled. But nowhere in the story does it say what kind of jack stand Mike had. The old ones didnt have too many safety features. So your video is half wasted.
Awesome video. Harbor Freight recalled their jack stands and replaced them with new and improved ones. They then recalled the new and improved replacement jack stands. I received an email from them in regards to this. Just wanted to share.
Harbor Freight recalled their jack stands made in east Northwest China and replaced them with jack stands made in Southeast China. Those redneck jack stands were then recalled and replaced with West coast Chinese jack stands. Those were then recalled and replaced with Yankee chinese jack stands.
Always put the jack stand handle on the outside of the car. For one thing, you'll be working under the car & want to avoid the accidental impact. For another thing, it'll be easier to drop the arm from the outside once you lift the car off the stands to lower it with the floor jack.
@@marketingmajor8126- A Bungee Cord to hold the handle down, a Strong Tie Wrap, or a Locking Cover, over the Handle, are various "Additional" Safety measures, that can reason well, slow, or stop, such "Situations" from being "Easy" to accomplish! Maybe a Combination of two of these ideas, if you live in such a "Crib!" 🥴🤭
@@backyardburnouts8846 Not smart. Momentum multiplies the weight of the car. If you have a heavy car like a crown vic 4000 pounds and you create enough movement the jack can get unbalanced and fail. Especially if the metal of the car is structurally compromised from years of use.
I've always lifted the car with my hydraulic jack and then left it and then put jack stands underneath as added security. I never thought to have the weight of the car onto the jack stands.
@@specialsause949 DO NOT DO THIS. THIS WILL KILL YOU. You need to apply the weight to the jack STANDS. Then put the floor jack half inch from the frame. The car should NEVER be supported by the floor jack while you are under it.
@@specialsause949damn man thats unbelievable. If that jack fails and suddenly drops on the stands they might fail or tip over because of the sudden drop. Weight must be on the stands at all times to keep them stable avoiding a sudden drop. I leave most of the weight on the stands, and leave the jack with some tension on it also, then put the tire/tires under frame of the car for added security.
I have many years as a mechanic the more tons equal a stronger jack with safety features if you don't elevate the jack stand you are completely safe because the jack has nowhere to drop 😮
or maybe the guy rushed and didn't completely secure the jackstands with the ratchet jaw completely in it's slot do it was just teetering on the tip of the jaw
It seems to me that you first want to know the force it takes on the lever to shear the pin. For that, there should be no vertical movement. You just have to apply a measured force at the end of the lever until the pin shears. Then you can just calculate the threshold weight on the jack from its mechanical design.
Aim the release handle of the jack stand away from your work area. Problem solved. CAUTION: Avoid violent psycho tantrums and tool slinging while under a car on jack stands. Second, rare problem solved.
GS Allen Tool slinging tends to happen when you are working on a project car. Usually when you snap off a bolt, or when something mashes your finger. although i never use jackstands, so I'm good.
+A. Zak Just have a bunch of sons and make them do weight training so they can hold the car up while you are working on it. You can call your sons Jack, Stan, Block and Wedge.
I liked this video. There is one point that I would like to make, human's head not completely in the game. When I was 24 years old I had a 1960 Olds that I used to go back and forth to work. My job at the time was a heavy equipment mechanic, so I knew about safety. I wanted to check my carrier bearing because I had a vibration. I drove the car up on blocks, ( a 60 Olds is low), I blocked it so that it could not go any further forward. I did NOTHING to prevent it from going backward! The only thing holding the car up on the blocks was the transmission that was in park. I then crawled under the car and popped the driveline off of the diff! The car immediately started to roll of the ramps. At least I had the presence of mind to turn over on to my back. The frame went across my stomach. I could just barely breathe. If the frame had went across my chest, it would have killed me. There are so many things that I did wrong. No blocks to prevent rearward movement. Did not apply the emergency brake. Did not take the transmission out of park. I worked on things every day that could easily kill me, but I always made it safe. What was I thinking? My mind was definitely not on what I was doing. I guess that the point that I am trying to make is, stop and take a look at what you are doing. Look at everything. It should only take you a couple of minutes, but I always do it now. I am 70 years old now, and every time I get under ANYTHING I remember that day long ago. It is NOT a pleasant memory.
Rat Builder, you nailed it. I’m 63 and have heard more than my share of horror stories throughout my life. We get caught up in getting it done and too often forget about our own safety. Having been an auto mechanic for a portion of my life, I can see how what happened to you could easily happen when in a hurry or are preoccupied by something. I have had some close calls too. I don’t like to think about them, but when I hear stories such as yours, those memories are revived. As the saying goes: “Look before you leap”.
I’m new to working on my car. It takes me a long time to do any work because I stop and think about each step for a couple of minutes before I execute it. I’m glad you survived that day so you can share your story.
@@waffledninja6278 Thanks Cray. There are several videos out there that are titled "Why Women Live Longer than Men". it shows some of the STUPIDEST actions that I have ever seen. My 5 year old kids were playing in the yard when this happened. When one of them got close enough that they could hear me I told them to go get their Mother. My Wife was across the street at my Mother's house. I could see her just calmly walking towards me, and when she was close enough to hear me, I told her to "get this thing off of me!" She yelled at my Mother that the car had fell on me. All they had to jack up the car was the bumper jack to change a tire. I was impressed, they started jacking up the car, and would put some blocks under as a safety. Jack and block, jack and block. They did this on their own. I was impressed. Two House-wives had more common sense than a professional heavy equipment mechanic.
@@kevanbarley1225 This happened about 1970. Even to this day, I remember how I felt! How I could just barely breathe. those thoughts will never leave me, which is good!!! I am a lot fatter now. I can't afford to try doing something as stupid as this again.
Someone may have suggested this already, but I reckon to test/measure the shear load of the handle pin, you should put it under the hydraulic jack like you had at first, then use another hydraulic jack under the handle, or a winch and cable over it, in combination with a force gauge to test at what load does the pin actually shear off.
Yeah fr... Even if it failed, if it was put in the right place it should have still been on the Jack stand.... It still should've been raised at least 6in
Only thing I think would’ve done that was a breaker bar releasing a tight nut/bolt and swinging perfectly into the jack handle. idk. I always use at least 2 jack stands and a jack to hold a car up before I get anywhere under it
Steve C i agree, there's no way youre 'bumping' a jack stand handle 'by accident', especially seeing as it took prying with a breaker bar and beating on it with a hammer to get it to 'fail'. The guy who got hurt probably just placed a stand wrong and didn't notice. Human error does happen.
Realistically, did the Chinese maker of this jack stand actually calculate the shear point of the roll pin (spring pin) attaching the handle to the pawl? More likely they calculated how small a pin could be used to lower the cost.
They would probably use the cheapest, which is probably the weakest, which is probably the safest, because you want to want that pin to break so the lever can't lift up. But you can't accidentally lift up against 500+ lbs anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Once the cam is dogged in place it makes no difference if the little pins shear, it ain't going no where. I replace the pins on mine all of the time the shear pins hold the handle to the cam. not the car in the air.. Most people I know that own a Porch should not be working on them..
SegoMan- You apparently are confused on what he is testing. The pins are supposed to shear instead of releasing the pawl on the jack stand when in use.
it really shouldn't matter the strength of the jackstand, the shear pin is not holding the weight, the pawl is. If anything I'd want the pin to fail sooner if im under a heavier vehicle, I dont want anything falling on me, especially not a vehicle that requires a 6 ton jack stand.
Yes, fairly obviously the pins designed for 1 or 2 ton rated stands aren't going to be as sturdy as those for a 6 ton stand rating. Part of this is obvious simply because the pin must be designed to shear at a lesser load for a lesser rated stand. When supporting a working load there are still some unintended stresses on the pin... It's just a consequential nature of the structure. The other side of the token, higher rated stands are going to be more expensive, and people who spend more money insist on a more durable and better product in general. Weaker pins will tend to "wear out" over time faster than the tougher pins, so there's that marketing part of it as well. I'm guessing, since it was brought up here, that there might conceivably be a flaw in the experiment here using a 6 ton stand where the job/story in question wouldn't require such. Solution would be to re-visit this with the lesser stand (1 or 2 ton as recommended for the story) or... get a range of pawl-pins for the jacks popular on the market and test their shear-strengths in reality, rather than just reading up what the engineers intended... (if possible) Of course, research on the actual designed and intended fail-points for jack stands might be worth a look. :o)
gnarth d'arkanen I don't usually see safety features compromised to make anything feel sturdier... ...besides 100-200 lbs of upward force to break the pin would be adequate regardless of the rating...and a pin that takes 100 lbs to break is not just going to wear down assuming a decent design where the pin doesn't hold any weight. There are exceptions, but good engineering doesn't leave unintended forces...
gnarth d'arkanen The safety pin should be the same regardless of the jack stand rating. The safety pin has nothing to do with the rating at all. If it is truly a safety pin, then it should be designed to shear with even as little as 100 pounds on the stand.
I have been using those type of jack stands for about 20 years. Never encountered an issue like that. I do find that it rare cases if you're not careful, the handle may not be in its full locking position, meaning that the ratchet type gear would rest the weight on the end of the tooth with the handle in a slightly raised position. In which the slightest movement of the car such as undoing a tight bolt will slide the tooth off causing the failure. That's my theory on what may have happened if it was a ratcheting type stand.
how do you confirm its not barely resting on the end of the tooth? I mean you can't vigorously shake the handle to confirm its locked cause than you'd be dead.
@@mosasa1307 you confirm this before using the stand. If the lever is all the way down then the teeth are engaged correctly. When its resting on the edge of the tooth the lever is half way up.
As a Mechanic myself since 1976 I've been under a car or two with stands, its not hard to see the mistakes lay people could make using them. Mike drives a Porsche so he is possibly a lawyer, if so he was bound to make up some story that lay the blame on the jack stand design instead of admitting he simply placed the stand wrongly, or on uneven ground, or under a part of the vehicle it could slip off. We can assume he wast not under his Porsche shampooing the gearbox. he was doing something that probably involved him swinging on a spanner, which was attached to the car, which was teetering on a badly place jack stand. And he's a strong man who can lift a car and I bet he can really swing hard on a spanner too. The only question here is, how wrong am I on this.
914 bro. He had a _914_. He's no lawyer. He's a car guy. Probably rallies. He knows what's what. A 914 *if* the engine was out?? or if he's under the front??...would be super light as far as cars go (lighter than an old Beetle...some people can lift the front of Beetles; still more than enough to crush face, though.
Although it's very speculative, I have to say I think AuMechanic makes some very good points (or possibilities). I've working on cars a long time and this 914 story ain't adding up.
*to make up some story that lay the blame on the jack stand design instead of admitting he simply placed the stand wrongly, or on uneven ground, or under a part of the vehicle it could slip off.* Well, though i'm not fully in Mechanic yet. Using a hydraulic jack at a bad place can either damage the car or be dangerous. Like, when your car is parked on the side of the street, street are never strait flat, they are curved/incline to make rain go in the drain. Also result in more dangerous jacking operation. A jack stand must be on a solid ground with has less incline terrain possible, especially side incline. For Up/down hill is easier to secure by placing something near the wheels that stand on ground, or to just have your hand brake on if rear wheels are not lifted or your car parked to "Park (Automatic trans.)" if your front wheel are on ground. Like you said, his jack stand was probably at a bad place. *I always place big bricks under the arms (under the suspension arm), in case my Hydraulic jack fail, i will be safe. I even put the car a little bit on the brick to release some of the pressure that the jack is holding.* Always safety first with dangerous condition.
There has never been a less scientific analysis or testing of a theory that this. You, sir have exceeded the minimum standards for what we like to call "the idiot zone".
I've used those same Harbor Freight jackstands for years now and the handle won't budge if there's any weight on the stand. You put a ridiculous amount of leverage on it during that 'experiment' and I seriously doubt there's any way you could achieve the same result by accident. I would guess the guy from the article didn't have his car supported properly like 99.9% of people who get crushed by cars.
Yup, I always leave the hydraulic jack in place as well. I also have a log I can roll under there out of the way that's thicker than me. Working under your car sucks bad enough let alone getting crushed.
I just use a tire as a back up for my jack stand and jack - triple redundancy because of earthquakes. I have a Porsche, so usually taking off the rear wheel to do anything on the engine is helpful.
You are correct. I find his experiment to be totally flawed. As long as there is weight on the jack stand, you would have purposely try to make it fail.
Tom G....I once hired a guy to install a gate in front of my driveway to keep the neighbors from parking in my yard. When he was done with the job he asked for payment. I said OK but I wanted to make sure the gate worked. So I rammed my bulldozer through it and told him his gate didn't work so I didn't pay him.
true but if you aren't paying attention well enough to notice you wedged a pry bar underneath the release you should probably not be under the car for your own safety
I had those same HF jack stands for about a decade and thankfully nothing happened. Now I got myself two new sets of the locking Daytona Jack Stands and the peace of mind of the lock is worth the upgrade. These new jacks alongside with a hydro jack and having the lever of the stands always towards the outside of the car helps so much.
My cheap jack stands have a triangular bar that is chained to the stand. After setting the jack, the intention is to slide in the bar which also locks the jack. In order for them to collapse, you have to both knock out the bar and lift the dog. As long as you remember to insert the bar, you have essentially zero chance of failure. I suspect that there were lawsuits over this in the past which caused them to add the lock bar.
YES!!! those are called double locking jack stands and the only type I use, for a 3ton jack stand the pair cost about 35 bucks... great price for the added protection so no reason to buy anything else.
I miss the old jackstands I used as an apprentice - they were basically a long screw, so they were adjustable to any height, rather than just the discrete intervals allowed by a pawl. And in a pinch, you could adjust the car's height a little by screwing them up and down while the car was already on them - hell, I even had an old jack that worked the same way, with a vertical screw (and a huge gear reduction - damn, I miss that thing. So reliable.) The downside was that they were more expensive and slower to set up, as you had to jack the car and then screw the stand all the way to the car, rather than having a quick setup by pulling the stand up like this model. Not sure if they're still on the market, but haven't seen anything like them in years.
+aussiebloke609 Yeah they are still available, but do to their cost only really find them in heavy duty applications. Found an example on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Esco-Screw-Style-Jack-Stand-Capacity/dp/B00FG09NS4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1494168295&sr=8-2&keywords=screw+style+jack+stands
Curious, did you confirm the ram would support at least 500 lbs? For those wondering how Mike could lift his car off himself, consider the other jack stands were still in place. I was checking my stands under the car one time and noted one was completely loose! Issue was one spot in the jack surface was a little lower (about 1/2") and I forgot to account for that. I could tip the car back and forth with one hand!
interesting. that's probably how he was able to knock the handle and lift the stand. the one jack maybe wasn't bearing a lot of weight so the handle could easily be lifted, particularly if it was hit by something.
The whole experiment was asinine..Did you see him lock the lady finger pry bar into the safety latch release lever and pry the hell out of it to cause failure..What jack ass would do that to a jack stand while his own life depended on it..Only suicidal people would die that way.
I don't know why he didn't just put it under a car, 4 jack stands and a extra to catch it when the stand releases. When you don't have a garage you have to employ real-time testing.
Great test. I had a similar issue in designing a latch for an infant incubator porthole door - odd analogy I know - but ... most latches can get 'hung up' in an intermediate position where it engages, looks locked, but isn't fully locked. This allows far less force to open it. This scenario may be what happened to the guy in the story. I'm about to buy jack stands, I'm gonna make sure they are good quality and don't get 'hung up'. A few extra bucks life insurance in these tools should be worth it. Thx.
I have been working on cars for years and I am still not very comfortable with using only jack stands, I keep trying to get over this phobia but can't seem to shake it, I always feel better using old rims, stones and 4×4s to assist the jack stands.
Ditto. And I'd never trust a stand with a mechanism like that - there's a lot to be said about K.I.S.S. A number of holes and a through-pin, locked in place by a cotter pin for me, thank you very much.
Makes me feel better about calling the old man up to join me the last time I used them just so I'd have someone to call 000/911 if something went wrong.
Certainly an eye opener and something to make sure you safe out a secondary way! Getting ready to restore a jeep and thought these where fool proof! Cheers!
Why? If you make sure the pawl fully engages and the hydraulic jack you used to get the vehicle above the stand still has a bit of pressure on it, it's a foolproof system if you aren't on an incline, chock the tires and use common sense for working on a vehicle. If it's a one ton pickup that weighs 3 and a half tons or a truck/tractor even bigger than that, I can definitely understand why.. but a passenger car if you just use common sense you'll always be golden.
Good idea Rick! Very small chance of BOTH stands failing. Another easy trick is to keep the jack on a lifting point with a little pressure so if the stand fails the jack is still there to keep you from being crushed.
Zephroth Talinguard Thats what I was wondering.... Surely a simple clip or pin could be used to prevent accidental use of the lever. Apparently manufactures already agree :p
Nothing against this guy, because there are obviously cheap jack stands like this that have no such safety feature. Someone needs to educate the ones who cut costs and get an inferior jack stand.
Zephroth Talinguard common sense says to put a bolt in there.. of course all the extra holes mean there will have to be thicker steel.. more holes more manufacturing cost which makes the cost go up.. and the bolt should be made out of hardened steel. here's another thing why are jack tops so small ..there smaller than the rail on my 99 expy. On a truck like that it should be a 3 inch circle top. One last thing if the pin is somewhat optional... Well you know the rest of the story..
Looked everywhere for a pair of those for decent $. Harder to find, but def worth the extra assurance. I knew a mechanic a few years ago that, used to keep pins in all holes he wasn't using just in case one of the pins failed.
for a final step of safety, I'll simply end to end a few zip-ties and loop them over the handle through the leg will help keep the handle down. when everything is said and done...clip the zip's and release the handle. Nothing in this world can't be fixed with either zip-ties or duct-tape!
I also do the same. When I have vehicle fully up with 4 jack stands, I always have a jack in centre of the front (cross member or transmission), and rear (differential) as well as tires laying on ground behind jack points. I knew a guy who had a pickup truck drop on him with all tires off. Even worst it was in his driveway with his wife and one year old sitting on the steps watching...he unfortunately didn't make it. Be careful out there.
@@DEHOYOS98 Wrong. I've changed several transmissions, clutches, and exhausts, always with all four wheels off, car on stands, with wheels laying under corners of frame.
the side that I'm working on. I always leave the jack in place... if i'm work working on car where the tire will be off.. I will take the free tire and stick it under the car also...as a safety..... if ti's work that can be done with the wheels on.. I use ramps rather than jackstands.
I to had ramps fail. My dad called me to do break work on his truck he had ramps that was about 5 years old. So i drove his truck up on the ramps. Before i put jack-stands under it i went in to get (Water yea right) to drink. Came back out the ramps failed flat as a pancake. After many years of using ramps i will never after that day.
Great video. I'm putting wood blocks under the jack's ram once I get it to height. Something happening might be a long shot but a guy names Murphy seems to follow me around and his word is law! !
My car is sitting in the basement on jackstands at this moment waiting on me to crawl around under Meath and pull/replace the fuel lines. You got me rethinking, maybe I’ll just use cribbing instead
This scenario is obviously not going to happen while working on a car in the real world,but I will tell you that I had a jackstand fail in a scary way at my old job. We used various shop jackstands all of the time for vehicles with no problems,until one day a certain little red one fell to the last stop while it was under a vehicle. My boss thought I was nuts,but the other mechanic seen it too. I reset it and it was fine for the duration of that repair (I used a tire under the vehicle after I reset it just in case). Well days,or weeks later it happened again and that was it for using that. I told my boss to scrap it and put it aside. It looked identical to 3 other ones,so I didn't want it getting mixed up with good ones. He puts it back with the four one day and I refused to use any of those after that. I have no clue why it randomally failed to this day.
One idea to explore or expand, on this is, if a Bungee Cord, hooked over the Handle, would even add any "Safety Factor? Another might be a "Cover" that slips over the Handle, that blocks the Movement of the Handle moving up, and it, (The Cover) is held in place by a Short Bungee Cord! Of course, if the Catch Pawl, or Tooth, and the Support Arm Teeth, are loose, or Worn out, such ideas as mine, would still be Useless! But, as demonstrated in this Video, it doesn't seem too hard, to build a "Shop Test Rig" for Jack Stands!
i hate those type of jackstands. currently i just picket up a different type (older vintage style) off of offerup. It has the holes in the moving thing and you put the pin through yourself and there is a clip to make sure it doesnt come out. its a little bit harder to take apart etc. but its worth it. i learned my lesson adjusting a chain on my kart when a jackstand collapsed on me. my go kart is pretty damn heavy and my head was under it, but i had a couple bricks in case under the kart.
The danger isn't necessarily from accidentally knocking the ratchet lever, but the pawl edge wears away from many years of the teeth riding against it when its being extended over and over gradually filing it down over years of use. So when uncle Joe with his 15 year old jack stands is smacking on a brake drum or trying to wobble something free it might just be enough weight and enough play to sheer the remaining lip off the pawl and come crashing down.
Opposite side of the handle is a "U" shape hole...if you push the tab in it just keeps the lift or arm or whatever you call that piece, from coming out the top of the stand...not a "safety" tab. I don't press mine in because they can be stored more compactly with the lift out.
Safety in the sense it keeps you form dropping the lift bar on your foot if you pick the jackstand up by the side brace which will want to make it turn over.
Yeah, like 20-30 years ago. According to the gov report, the moulds or whatever they use to cast the central support were old and worn, which led to them to be producing supports which were to narrow or shallow, which made them very prone to unlatching and thus falling. Don't know about some internet story about mike, however the gov report which led to HF doing a total recall is something I'd believe more than some probably rigorous testing people seem to want to believe the Chinese followed...
Theres a better chance that the falling porsche was caused by a jack stand poorly placed, work being done on an incline, a secondary trolly jack placed parallel to the car rather than perpendicular or wheels not secured with blocks. with that said, i enjoyed the video, it was well thought out. cheers sir
Great video. This is why when I jack the car and take the wheel (s) off, I put them under the car. Don't work under the car with a single point of failure :)
that why it better to flip the car upside down so i can work on above. some people just never figure it out, if it 4 stroke just drain it out an put it back in after
You're forgetting to subtract the return spring pressure on your press. The spring return for the bottle jack is reducing your theoretical applied force.
1. There is no return spring on the bottle jack. Did you watch the video? He had to force it down, with his pry bar. 2. The force of return spring in the modified hydraulic ram is negligible compared to the 500 lbs of pressure.
Joseph Gargasz jack no but in the press there are some stiff Springs that return the press dye to the full upward position. if it took a pry bar to press the jack down then the springs are applying a significant force against the air piston before the jack stand even touches it.
David Burton there are return springs on the press. It's an OTC press shop press. How do you think the jack automatically collapses when the pressure is released? The springs are on the blue bars to the left and right of the jack above the top beam of the press just out of frame on the video. Google search OTC 20 ton shop press to see what I am referring to. Due to him placing the "load cell" between the press head and the bottle jack. The force exerted by the springs will need to be taken into consideration when making your applied force calculation.
It's so counter intuitive that a light car would cause a jack-stand vulnerability, but it makes sense once you know how the safety features work. That's good to know.
Simply by putting upward pressure on the car. IE: A frozen sideways bolt on a shock. where you are using a ratchet and possibly a persuader to break the bolt loose. Will give the car enough lift off the jackstand to relieve enough of the pressure. That if bumped ,or kicked on the release lever it could fail. I have worked at shops where others have had cars completely off the ground on 4 stands and only two sides of each jackstand foot were in contact with the ground. Simply from not positioning either the jack or stands properly. So not all jackstand failures are at the fault of the jackstand itself. Sometimes its the Jack that jacked it up all together.
Wayne Schonasky Yep you have to really be careful that the stand isn't at an angle. I've super careful about making sure the stand is right before I get under it. I leave a just-touching jack in place as a failsafe, not actually supporting weight. If the stand fails, the weight would drop on the jack but not from a very far distance, only a small fraction of an inch. I usually have to reposition a stand several times before I feel it is safe.
That would be the person who jacked the vehicle up was not paying attention to the jack stand and the vehicle while jacking it . I jack the front and back up in intervals so I can adjust the stands so they are flat on the ground .
Yes, I've had that happen and caught it. Comes from trying to jam the stand in fully extended where the car is not quite high enough, or placing the stand under a part that moves laterally when the car is lowered, like a suspension arm. Pushing hard on the car each way BEFORE you get under it, and looking carefully precludes this. If you have those old style stands made of pipe, THROW THEM THE HELL AWAY! My brother had one crumple under the back of a Karmann Ghia, yes, shit car, I know.
That is exactly what I was thinking: combine lifting up on the car with lifting up on the jack stand release lever and ...voila! Plus the car might not be level and if it is only 2000 lbs. with parts possibly removed a little bit of a see-saw becomes a very big see-saw.
Probably a good idea to clean the jack-stands off with some brake Cleaner every now and then to keep any residual grease and oil off of the safety mechanisms. I've used jack-stands for years and I do remember once seeing one fail somewhere but I don't remember the details. I remember well enough, however, that I always leave the jack in place after letting most of the pressure off. Leave just enough pressure to hold it firmly in place. Somebody here mentioned leaving the wheels under the frame as well, also a good idea.
From rallying I've learned to put the wheel under the car while the car is on jack stands. Even if the car falls without injuring anyone, it is still easier to get a jack under it if the car is sitting on a wheel and not the ground.
gcKukie wish I would have known that recently, i was jacking the truck up and the right side jack stands that was under it apparently wasn't seated well. So as you can guess the trucks right side fell off the stand hitting me and forcing me to push the truck to avoid being crushed. Anyways thanks for the tip (:
people here saying a lot to use the tires placed under the car, i say no, keep hydraulic jack under, and with jack stand with SAFETY PIN, you'll be fine, got better chance of getting hit by lightening, then car coming down on your face, besides where is his face the car coming down on it? that doesn't sound right? does it?? www.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-3-Ton-All-in-One-Bottle-Jack-Jack-Stand-640912/203116783?cm_mmc=%7C0%7C0%7C0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI34ri7t3O2wIVz4uzCh3k8gSzEAQYAiABEgKIm_D_BwE
That roll pin isn't meant to be a shear pin, far too thick for that considering it's only transferring a small amount of force in normal use. Roll pins often get used in manufacturing because they can be used as dowels in holes that aren't perfectly aligned or the exact same size.
It is possible to use roll pins as shear pins. The aircraft I repair have certain components that in fact incorporate roll pins that are designed to shear. The difference is the level of engineering/money/time put into the design of aircraft vs an automotive jack stand. None-the-less, these pins "should" be designed to shear at safe loads. An easy way would be for manufacturers to use pins made of weaker metal - like aluminum. I wonder if OSHA has any regulations on jack stand design? Regards.
Bump after bump after bump of not paying attention is what progressed the lever slowly. The pin sometimes won't shear on a lighter car if the force isn't applied all at once. He wasn't paying attention. You're welcome.
Weight wouldn't be evenly distributed even on a tiny porsche that weighs one ton. It would weigh most at the engine and very little on the other side of the vehicle in comparison. So he probably didn't even have to lift 500 pounds, depending on where he was. That jack may have only been supporting 400 pounds, or maybe even 350. I don't know how much easier that is but I suspect you could bump it with a tool.
Prometheus720 even if the weight isn't evenly distributed the other jack would have picked up the load the car would have tiled but still would have been on both jack stands. With that said though if the stand was on soft or uneven ground it may have caused both stands to fall over
Jimmy Grant 914 definitely mid engine transaxle in rear. Tho you are correct if you mean more weight at the rear. 914 is one of the scariest cars you can drive fast due to unrecoverable snap oversteer inherent to mid engine/rearward weight distribution. If you ever drive one and go into a corner too hot just remember "never lift off (the throttle) at mid apex."
Great info! I take it is essential to be aware of possibility of incidental hits on that handle. Rush, hang over and such and falling in sleep under the car are things that come to mind. Children playing in immediate vicinity. Be sure the good weight really is on all stands to avoid flip chance.
its a 6 ton stand. try again with an appropriate weight. maybe a ton or 1500 lbs. 500 compared to 12000 not a good comparison. try it with a two ton stand
Ray Dion the point was to test the stand under everyday circumstances, he purposefully picked a low weight standard to a small car that everyday people use.
Not so, Ray. 6000 lb is the weight it should be able to hold up. You're not supposed to be able to release it when it is loaded. You're *supposed* to have to lift the weight off the jack stand before you can release it.
im saying the shear pin is rated more for more weight and sturdy features. put a little more weight that pin may shear or more likely you wont beable to lift the weight off. alot of people could just bench press that car. 500 lbs is not feasible on a is it a 6ton or 6000 lbs jack?
The shear pin is not supporting the weight, it simply connects the handle to the pawl and is supposed to shear away from the pawl under too much load, leaving the pawl to hold the car up and making it impossible to release.
Great experiment! The set up was sound, the results were clean of fault. As an old retired mechanical designer, I can't fault you test, very well done. A thought, what if the pawl was not fully seated in the groove, but was caught on a tooth edge?
That is more likely what happened then anything. Part of my own routine when placing jackstand is to make sure the paw is fully seated by dropping it then lifting it to where I want it every time.
TrikeRoadPoet the fault in this experiment is he forgot to factor in leverage. 500 pounds of force would have to be directly applied to push it in. But in the jack stand itself than handle and the angles of the groves leverage needs to be factored in
Aaron, his intention was to determine whether or not the shear pin would fail before the pawl released a 500-pound load. He made neither measurements nor predictions as to the force that would be applied to the lever.
Pro tip, use more than 4 jackstands. I like to use at least 6 preferably 8 if they can fit. This way you are not totally reliant on the 4 corners alone. In the event of a failure if you have 2 in the middle you could more than likely teeter the car one way or the other or at least keep it from totally crushing your body, saving your life.
Alternatively if possible (if you don't have more than 4 jacks, I only have 2 for instance so my back or front wheels are always blocked or on ramps and blocked) stick the tires under the car in the middle as a just in case safety feature (learned that from ChrisFix, helped me out more than once when the jack slipped as I was raising the car to move the stands out)
You should always use jack stands (obviously) but it's also smart to keep the jack under with pressure as well. Also if you have a tire or two off it's also a good idea to put those under the car in case something does happen.
Actually, using a jack to bear a portion of the load is EXACTLY how to create an unsafe condition with this type of stand. The weight of the vehicle is what locks the stand. Also, how do you know being crushed is a horrible death? Could be it's a walk in the park, piece of cake..like crucifixion!
One weights on the jack the pins won’t move, same with the locking pawl ones like shown in the video. Only way either type can fail is if you make them fail by hammering out pins or crowbarring open locking pawls
the normal height of a jack stand is still pretty high... you'd have to fuck up pretty badly to have it fall on you completely and you should always use two stands if you are getting under the car.
The whole experiment was asinine..Did you see him lock the lady finger pry bar into the safety latch release lever and pry the hell out of it to cause failure..What jack ass would do that to a jack stand while his own life depended on it..Only suicidal people would die that way
One thing I think is important to know, is this it a 6ton stand, it's safety feature tolerances are likely adjusted for this weight. My 2ton light duty stand has a much smaller pin than my 10ton stand. This 6ton jack likely isn't meant to fail safe for such a light load.
Something no manufacturer would ever even attempt to demonstrate. Thanks for sharing this. I am very cautious generally. Your video was oddly chilling while also being reassuring. Yes, these can fail, but seem to do OK unless a lot of force is applied. Safety always comes first because we never realize when we are making a mistake (all accidents are accidental, so take steps to add extra layers of protection to you as you work hard, fight with parts, and get mentally exhausted).
