Experimental Jet Parts in Carbon Fiber 

Great comment, interesting enough that I looked up "blisk" just to understand it better

I'm assuming the visionaries are mech-aerospace folks who already did simulation of proposed parts using finite element analysis and dynamic simulation. There's just no way to improve on these engines without lots of CAD design and simulation before attempting to make and run the real thing as experimental validation, analysis, and performance characterization. It's possible the LM1500 control systems will need to be replaced or modified as well.

I think the RR composite blades has a titanium leading edge. But an industrial engine runs on highly filtered air so I don't thing abrasion from dust and dirt is a bit issue

@@fuzzy1dk Even with up to 99.7 percent inlet filter efficiency, atmospheric contaminants will erode compressor blades, corrode turbine blades and increase the frequency of washes. It is a very real issue with terrestrial power plants.

I was wondering how they plan to address the bending and torsional aspects. The blades must have a core of fiber strands much like the tension/torsion straps used to retain rotor blades on some helicopters but as the name implies, that will allow torsional movement. If they really are "forged carbon fiber" without tension members and are are simply chopped up strands compressed with resin in a mold as described in this video, they will have less tensile strength than if they were made of aluminum. There have been many attempts to use the less than amazing torsional resistance of composite materials to make both marine and aircraft propellers that use that elasticity to combine the best of fixed and variable pitch operation. Under the air flow and power conditions the first stage sees on takeoff this could either be good or bad depending on how you look at it.

There were many concerns similar to these voiced before the first runs. They will be the subject of my next video.

Coulda. The person assembling the engine felt like doing it this way.

@@AgentJayZ fair call. 👍

@@louisesamchapman6428 has to be a division of 21. But if the supplier only made the two to test, then as close as is to 180° of seperation is ideal

The rotor was then balanced the normal way, using balance weights engineered into the system. "It's always more complicated than you might first think".

@@AgentJayZ very true.

That's been discussed below.

All of our LM1500 tests running on gaseous propane feed the engine with a 2 inch inside diameter line at about 200 psi. The propane does not collapse into a gas because it is heated to about 200F.

@@AgentJayZ I assume you meant to say "does not collapse into a liquid" ?

These are not made that way. I talked to the guys who made them.

That's true for traditional contiguous strand carbon fibre, laid up in a defined matrix. but if these are Forged CF like Jay says (an I'm inclined to agree, they look similar to what I've worked with in the past) then they are not manufactured in that way. It can be quite as simple as "Get the appropriate amount of goop. Stick it in a mould and squish." As with anything, you can really get into the weeds with it, but there's people making parts in this way out of 3D printed moulds and acheiving aluminium level strength characteristics. NOW! That doesn't mean that any of this continuous fibre is not in these parts, it is common for continuous fibre to be laid in with the chopped strand if you need stength in a specific place or direction. This is all possible before the consolidation (squish) takes place and coupled with some post-curing can be incredibly strong parts. That post cure is important though, and one of the reasons why this is being done on the 1st stage is because post curing generally improves the ability of the part to withstand heat without softening or deforming. The temperatures in the 1st stage are generally quite low so would not be close to affecting the blades but temperature alone. As you get up the stages and the temperature increases, I'd start to get worried about the ability of the blades to deal with the loads that will be seen at operating levels.

@@TheWinning247 Very interesting.

I don't know those details, but maybe the producers will want to answer your question...

Very interesting information. Seems like there are useful options that could provide a lot of parameters to play with.

Might be a problem getting some motor to provide the mentioned 15000hp.

The test engine was built from surplus parts that were serviceable, but of older models that are less suitable for use in customer's engines. This is only the first step in a process.

​@@truebsalgeblaese18:31 1000HP. And thats if its actually compressing air. Just spinning on a test fixture will consume less.

@@truebsalgeblaese I think he said the engine produces 15,000 HP, not that it requires 15,000 HP to spin those blades up to 7500 RPM, And I would assume they would only be testing one set of compressor blades, not the 8? or so full set.

We've been discussing a test fixture and what sized motor to use. If you have been paying attention, you would know that if the net output of a turbojet gas generator is X, then the compressor is using 2X. So to turn the LM1500 compressor to designed output at 7500 rpm requires 30,000 hp. Without a casing around it, much of the air will sling outward from the blades, and with only 2, 3, or 4 blades, we are entertaining guesses at how much power we need.

All one piece.

Same with rotors on helicopters, props on planes and fan blades on jets. They errode to easily and require a metal leading edge.

Apparently, you have difficulty understanding what you hear. These are for industrial engines. You probably (definitely) are unaware that an industrial, ground running turbine engine is almost always using air that has passed through a filter about the size of two tennis courts. All the things you mentioned fall under "not applicable", also known as "interesting, but we are not talking about that". Please, both of you relax a bit.

@@AgentJayZ I imagined a stationary would have filtered inlet air. Look forward to the conclusion if you share it.

We'll get to that soon.

​@@AgentJayZ Whats the best way to contact you? Is it possible to have a 5 min call?

@@daynosdr hahha

@@3SPR1T whats so funny?

Operating temp for the first stage is inlet air temp.

@@AgentJayZ Interesting. I always thought the compressor blades would run hot like the leading edge of an aeroplane wing due to the friction of moving the air. Thanks for responding and putting me straight

They are expensive prototypes. I have suggested a full set test next, but I am not an engineer, and I am not making the decisions for this project. We are all just lucky enough to be along for the ride. This is real developmental research.

Think about that, and tell me what you think.

No the discs are group a items they have a hard life. I can't speak for this engine type but large trent engines the fan disc had a 15000 cycle life

Good question. Both the blades and the discs do wear. The discs are replaced when they wear beyond accepted limits, but they do seem to last a lot longer than the blades. They are made of different steels, but I do not have the actual recipes.

The air in which the engine runs goes right in... Cooler air is denser, so the compressor has an easier job. The engine is controlled via Exhaust Gas Temp, or EGT, so the fuel is modulated to reach a temperature. The turbine will always experience the same temps, and the FCU uses whatever amount of fuel is necessary to get to that temp.

Last I heard, the Dutch government will not allow it to enter the country. The external gear cases are made of alloys containing trace amounts of thorium. They have a zero tolerance for any "nuclear radioactive materials".

Yeah... interesting description, but I get the feeling you don't know how an axial compressor works. I've got videos about them, but I've also got videos about some excellent books about the subject. Alternatively, I suggest you look up axial compressors at the NASA site, or even Google.

@@AgentJayZ I've studied and built them, as I did at one point in time build compressor sections of jet engines. I studied them extensively because I fully plan to build my own. My first one will only be radial, not for a lack of knowledge of how axial compressors work, but because I have one, and its both faster and cheaper than starting from scratch. Should I live long enough, I will be building axial flow compressors, particularly out of a mixture of carbon fiber, graphene oxide, and some other materials I choose not to list here. I realize I have to deal with resonant harmonics, mach waves, echo reverberation, cavitation, supersonic stall, and hot spots. I've spent years running simulations using finite point modeling, therefore, have a good level of confidence that within 30 attempts I will have a working product. I make no claim that I'm going to get it right on the first try, but since I know how to build the machinery first hand, I know what I am up against. I had to go to school in the USAF to understand how turbine engines operate to know what to look for in a turbine before I could qualify to be an A&P mech, and was offered a double career by the USN as a turbine technical instructor, and my inability to swim or float is the only reason I turned the offer down. Axial flow compressors are much more of a centrifuge than a fan. They just have to compress air in higher volumes, and higher [still subsonic] velocities than a radial flow compressor, and they do so, at the cost of lower total pressure. On the other hand, there is a squaring law that keeps a radial compressor from working efficiently in air flow as the power feedback and total mass of moving parts make them rather inefficient and ungainly for fighter jets. However, a lot of helicopters and stationary power systems use them because they are capable of being maintained much easier and can develop very high specific pressure, which is needed when driving a secondary power turbine system. My first engine will be designed to go into a vehicle, where high speeds are not needed, but where high wheel torque at the output of the system are. A top speed of 50 MPH will be adequate for this 5 ton machine. I expect to not make over 300 HP in this engine design. When I move toward axial flow, I plan to build small single seater personal jet aircraft. A top speed of 220 mph will be adequate for the 1,557 pound airframe. I don't expect to make over 200 HP in this engine design. I don't need stellar, supersonic performance, therefore my systems will be engineered to go slower, and be more focused on fuel efficiency than on sheer power. As I build my test models, there will be hundreds of precision sensors all along the pathways, picking up air speed, air pressure, direction of flow, sonic patterns, turbulence, air temperature, etc. That data will help me perfect my design, as I am going to focus on much more than a 1% gain in fuel efficiency, but, like G.E., I want gains from 25% to 28%. In the process, I aim to bring the net mass of the motors down by over 50% making them less than half the equivalent weight of the same systems if made traditionally out of all metal.

@@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542 Good Luck.

I'd suspect they have directionally oriented carbon tow in the center of that blade, otherwise yes I agree that I doubt a 100% forged cf blade will have the ability to last in that application.

@@beachboardfan9544 Rolls Royce makes carbon fan blades which spin a lot slower than compressor blades. And even those are traditional carbon composites with intact fibers. I also doubt that traditional carbon fiber will last in a compressor. I'm sure if it was possible, then a company like RR would've made it because they have experience in the carbon blades field. My main reason why it won't work is that even though carbon is light it needs more volume than steel to get to roughly the same numbers. They just copy the shape 1:1 and slap it in the engine... that's not how this works Anyways if it fails it will be catastrophically and we will have something to watch but it'll be really sad to see an engine wasted.

@@3SPR1T Never knew RR made composite fan blades. I've only seen them on the GE engines.

@@beachboardfan9544 Yea little mistake. They make composite fan blades though.

The stators act on the air after it has been accelerated by the blades, so there should be no effect. Yes/no ? The debate continues.

Give 'er. I wish you luck. FYI, calling a turbine engine a turbine is the most common rookie mistake, and to a professional, it's a flashing red flag. If you really meant to say turbine, well carbon fiber composites don't do well at 1500 degrees F. If not, carryon, and you should be proud of the fact that you will be the first person in all of history to design a turbine engine all by yourself. I have several videos about visionaries like yourself...

@@AgentJayZ People make turbine systems out of metal because its the only thing they have. [or think they have] Ceramics are too brittle, and plastics are too soft and melty. Carbon, if bonded with the correct materials can withstand over 6000F with no problem. Also, the right combination of bonding materials will allow just enough creep and fracture resistance from thermal shock as the blades transition from cold to hot and back many thousands of times. Since I have no intentions of super-stressing the carbon products, I won't ever get near their failure point, so long as I don't have harmonics or supersonic spots in the design. By keeping my systems slower than the failure rates, and keeping the resonances in check with custom blade designs, I expect very good blade life and low overall internal temperatures. So far as saying I designed this 'all by my self', I'm not so arrogant as that. [not saying I'm not arrogant...just not THAT arrogant] I realize that I had to get tons of education to even decide to step into this engineering fray. A whole lot of years of science sits there to fuel my plans, and I wasn't the inventor of any of it. I'm just sharpening up my old carrot and drawing up a new 'orange-print.' And... Likely breaking a whole lot of stuff along the way. I fully expect to break a whole lot of my prototypes. But that's how I learn.

@@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542 Good Luck. Some additional useful words, ceramic matrix composites (CMCs) & silicon carbide ceramic fibers locked inside a ceramic matrix and covered with a thermal barrier coating, should be added to your vocabulary.

I'm a technician, I'm the camera operator documenting the tests, and I'm a guest observer of a project between S&S Turbines and Blade-X. I do not make the corporate decisions.

@@AgentJayZ thanks for the reply The way you make your videos it makes it seem like you are your own boss

@TheKGBtsar It's called money. That's how business works.

@CDhn455 money greases the wheel it doesn't open all doors

I am the owner of Jet City Turbines. This is a project between S&S Turbines and Blade-X

OceanGate flashbacks?

Would be witty, if not so irrelevant.

After reading your comment I noticed I was strangely unsubbed too. I don't know why RU-vid does that.

@@AgentJayZ obviously I resubbed, but others are also getting unsubbed.

The YT algorithm has become quite the asshole over the past year. I have told them many times that they suck (are there any actual humans reading their questionnaires?). Maybe the software formerly known as YT management is mad at me. Probably. I hope so.