EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More! 

Card cleaning response starts @38:43

The up charge answer was a dodge. If there was stiffer competition, up charges would disappear. It’s a pure cash grab.

Can't believe Geoff saved the PSA president on the insurance excuse regarding up charge. Wouldn't it be PSA grading fault if they graded wrong, why does customer have to pay for their error?

Upcharge is not insurance. Everyone wants a cut when a high dollar card is graded. Bad on Geoff for not challenging this excuse.

This is what I want. A collection management tool where I can enter my noteworthy cards (both slabbed and raw). 1. The tool would connect to eBay for easy, one-click listings. 2. The tool would seamlessly link to PSA so if I decide to grade a card in the collection because I see a benefit, boom, just click a button and send it to PSA for grading (and vaulting if I want). 3. Ability to easily view my images. 4. Ability to add and remove cards from my collection as I buy and sell. 5. A public link to send to people that want to see my what's in my collection, so they can request I list the card on eBay as a buy it now for them to purchase. 6. That loops back to the #1 request.

Grader notes is what people want!

On the surface having a card graded sounds like a good thing. From 14+ years of bulk orders with PSA the grading standards and consistency are nonexistent. I’ve had a psa 6 turn into a psa 10. 8’s into 10’s. 9’s into 10s. 9’s into 7’s. It’s essentially roulette at this point and the casino (PSA) always wins

I have to applaud them on the grader notes…it adds some accountability and atleast an explanation to the collector.

When I watch some of the longtime vloggers, who clearly know their business, and are evaluating their submissions to be a 9 or 10, and the card may come back as a 6, then you know there’s a problem with PSA grading. Slow the heck down, train your graders properly, and stop the 10 pop control.

Upcharges are r**tarted, not only are they a conflict of interest but they hurt collectors exponetially where as resellers can eat that cost

I've seen one of Ryan's interviews and normally leave with more questions. This interview offers so much clarity.. Great questions! So much knowledge gained.

A PSA 10 on a card should be the same value as a SGC 10…

"Sometimes a new grader will be more conservative" @ 29:00 . This is EXACTLY why I think AI & Computer grading is the future.

As someone getting back into the hobby I really think the grade notes should be included with any submission. It would help educate and also provide some clarity. Good interview!

I appreciate companies like PSA. I think they are great for the hobby. However, regarding card cleaning. There is a difference between cleaning and enhancing. There is also a difference between in the way the card is enhanced. If the card is enhanced using any product that contains fillers, I agree it is considered altered. If it is enhanced via polishing compounds that do not contain fillers and you are actually physically correcting/removing the scratches then I would considered the card to be corrected. Because technically the card is already altered by having a scratch on it which I would assume the card company did not intend for said scratch to be there. So the card or item is technically already “altered” in a sense. But after correcting said card, IMHO it should be allowed and in the end it would not be detectable if done correctly. After using polish, you can apply a solution to strip any and all polish residue from surface. Even an IPA solution will work. Most of these card “cleaning” products from my experience contain a lot of the same ingredients that car waxes contain which they do contain a lot of fillers. I would also respectfully disagree that these products would ruin the card as the product itself contains elements that protect especially against UV. They also contain Carnuaba which is a natural ingredient that has amazing protection properties including hydrophobicity. Also PSA NEEDS to implement why the card got the score it did on all levels of service. I think transparency is key and it is the utmost important aspect when it comes to grading anything at any level. I also respectfully disagree with tiered pricing despite it being used to cover “insurance” costs. I think PSA should adopt a standardized pricing for any and all cards regardless of their values. I am sure most people would rather spend an extra dollar on a grade across the board to help cover these claims rather than tiered pricing. But that is just my 2 pennies. I am just a collector/enthusiast. I definitely respect PSA for coming on these interviews and giving in depth explanations. They really do help.

Sounds to me like there needs to be an grading industry standard on how to grade a card. I would hate to get a grader on a bad day and get a 9 when it should have been a 10.

What he said about their reasoning with card cleaning makes sense from their side. Good stuff all around. Thanks guys

The upcharge in relation to the insurance makes no sense. You dont get extra insurance all the sudden. They insure their cards. How does them looking at my pockets and demanding more money from me based on the size of my pocket have to do with them issuring cards? They should have their products inssured jsut cause its the nature of that business. Do we get to look at their pockets and demand more money? Odd that the people lower in society, those at the top want to put as many buffers in the way of people moving up the ladder. Stop!

I'm going to be straight to the point. The upcharge is ridiculous and the slabs and the labels are the ugliest of the big 4 . Isn't it just great seeing a really high grade 9 or 10 card with a paper label inside that's all crinkled up that looks like an Avery label. For the cost there is no excuse for the slab or the label.

One of Geoff’s best interviews! So much knowledge gained and reaffirmed. Great content!

A+ interview with some very great news on upcoming changes.

so no kurt’s love juice is allowed ? i will continue to add kurt’s love juice sorry

He's full of shit on that wemby card. Talked to the dealer and owner? first time they ever took the customers word for anything lol. Card is clearly off center, looks like psa just wanted that card in their slab with a 10 at any excuse.

PSA = Please Submit Again. I am curious the POP count for slabs that has been resubmit for higher grade. This really screw the pop count. I like TAG grading for that. There is no resubmit because the card being Id in there computer scan of the card.

If PSA is going to say that any cards that have Kurts uice on them arent going to be valid then the Wembanyama 1/1 should also be banned. But they won't do it because it's a rare card.

When is PSA going to start grading some of these Hobby History pieces like older sketch cards? PSA is the industry’s leader and doesn’t grade the first sketch card to ever exist but Beckett does? 1993 Defective Comics Mark Voger Sketch Card Those are valuable pieces of art and a piece of hobby history

would love to get an interview like this with the president of Beckett BGS and have him/her answer some tough questions

Even more concerning is that grading is effected by population number's... 'hey guys, were getting too many 10s.. better slow it down or you dont get bonus".. that scenario is BS.. a grade is what a grade is, regardless of what the last card they looked at got graded..... to fix that they can have a TRUE GRADE and a RELATIVE GRADE (that might adjust for marketplace numbers).

Awesome interview. I’m excited for the photo matching service. Since Ryan acknowledges cracking slabs as a norm, it would be great if PSA offered a small incentive for sending PSA labels from cracked slabs to them. It would help PSA adjust population reports to be more accurate.

Hope they continued to expand on the east coast - At least the strides are there - Aside from the national any onsite grading for PSA in SFL into year end?

"After stains are removed, the stains come back" - These are sports cards not magic cards!

Ryan did a great job explaining why they don’t allow foreign products on cards.

I don’t know why people bother anymore with the grading consistency questions. Oh, some graders are new, some are tough on one thing over another. He’s right, they haven’t changed the written standards, and likely never will. This game is their bread and butter. Look at vintage PSA 5’s that were graded in the 1990’s or up to like 2005. Many of those cards would get 2’s and 3’s today. The gimmick here is in the subjectivity of human grading, i.e. what is “minor” rounding of corners to you vs. me? Hoge is not dumb, he realizes this. They have a huge grading consistency issue here right now with vintage, many in that community agree. Send in a stack of sharp cornered and decently centered vintage, and some will get 7’s and 8’s, while others will inexplicably get 4’s. The problem is much larger than a few new graders or those who treat corners more harshly than edges or something. If Hoge and Turner are not acknowledging this; they are simply lying - it’s right in front of their faces. Good news on the grader notes, this is something that collectors have been asking about for years.

Really great interview on both ends! Ryan seems like a very authentic guy and really positive representative for PSA. Some exciting news, especially grading notes.

How does a company stay impartial if they have a partnership with them. I would think they would grade all Topps cards better than a Panini card?

Overall thought it was a good informative interview. One question I would have liked to see addressed is regarding the PSA label. It seems the font size is the same on all the labels and when you start getting into some of these more modern inserts, they start getting abbreviated and I can’t even figure out what the heck the insert or parallel is without looking it up in a database. It would be nice to adjust the font size so all the card information fits on the label without having to look everything up. Some shows have very poor Internet connections so it’s not always easy to get the information you need for a particular slab

Nothing matters until objective grading ... people who make a couple of bucks over minimum wage are telling you what your cards are worth lmao. Have fun!!

I’ve improved lots of cards over the years. (wiping surfaces, removing wax stains, flattening corners, fixing warping, etc.) If they retroactively deactivated any of my cards (like they did Kurt Colone) I’d file suit asap.

Explosive interview? I must have clicked on the wrong link.

I guarantee with the technological advances involving grading will probably mean less PSA 10’s

I appreciate the openness of this interview. It doesn’t really change my mind but I better understand where they are coming from.

Grading cards the biggest rort of all time

Thanks for the outstanding interview. The one question I would have liked to hear him answer is which grading service (PSA or SGC) he would send his cards to and why if he had a mix of modern and vintage that he wanted to grade. I would be particularly interested in his answer if he thought some cards were more appropriate for PSA and others for SGC.

S/O to Geoff for bringing some great questions and just being a great interviewer 👏🏼

I spoke up about the customer notes under one of their Instagram posts. Glad I did

Basically what I’ve been saying, if it isn’t ultra-modern PSA graders don’t know what the hell they are doing.

Geoff I appreciate you for your effort on this video man. I’m not a huge watcher of the show but a fan of u and bought the dummies book! Glad to have around and keep up the success 🍺

32:48 I love the transparency. If the grader notes are gonna be introduced in June, might as well add subgrades

Great interview. Ryan thx for all the info we really appreciate you.

Why not just catch up to the modern age technology we have……start implementing AI grading instead of human grading…. Eliminate the up charges, cut employees and faster turnaround times & better transparency 🙃

I would love if you could ask about about PSA Set Register's lack of upgraded and slot request open delay

Premium price for slabs that look like ass.

Ryan said they would be on the hook if it changed. Have they stepped up to help the guy who bought the psa auto and then when they regraded they said it was fake?

I heard him say comic books, without saying comic books…

This is a great video. Good questions!

Fantastic video. Geoff your interview skills have definitely improved 👏... great guy, he explained alot. Also Fanatics is probably scrambling to aquire BGS buuut their parent company doesn't sell any of their holdings (traditionally).

Im really excited to hear theyre gonna have inserts to fit die-cuts! I have lots of die cuts ready to grade that i havent graded yet because i dont like the way they look in slabs. They dont move around in the slabs but theyre just tilted usually left a little and it looks terrible.

I give credit to this guy for acknowledging his service's strengths and areas where they're still trying to get better. I expected more of an hour-long advertisement to be honest.

Geoff - "Why does PSA have an upcharge?" PSA - "Our business model" The audience- "oh you mean greed"

Great Video Geoff,Thank you for doing this for us Lots of New and Great ideas on the Future of PSA,what about Thicker Topps/Panini cards Cleat cards for example.

General Geoff!

I been seeing and reading about a lot of law suits against PSA…I know PSA has brought SGC grading and that’s who I use I hope PSA doesn’t mess with the way SGC operates…

The hobby is divided. Half of you are Jeff Wilson fanboys and followers. The other half of you think Jeff Wilson is a clown. It's funny how life goes.

That was a very informative interview. Thank you

I would be shocked if PSA could find a way to detect if a card was cleaned (Kurt's Card Care). The polish/spray aren't left on the cards, they're wiped off after use. There's no visual difference or smell (other than it being clean). Kurt also frequently examines cards under a microscope and with a blacklight, so I fail to see how they could possibly know unless they examine it at an atomic level.

You can give PSA your money or not. It’s really that simple. If you do, you have no place complaining. You know what you’re signing up for.

Good interview. Questionable responses but it’s a business and it’s up to them. Nice flexing at the end. Cool to hear what they’ve been collecting. Not many cards lol.

This guy nailed the nostalgia aspect for us 90’s kids grading our pokemon cards. We wish we were still kids but we are glad we have adult money to grade our cards now lol

I'm glad you asked about the consistency issue, I have just dipped my toe into vintage Pokemon cards. I have a Charizard that is a 5 and looks more like a 7, I also have a Chancy that got a 7 that looks more like a 5, so that's my biggest question with PSA at the moment.

So if you get charged more to grade or up charged depending on the value of the card, do you get a refund if the value of the card drops? 🤔 I'm sure there are a lot of Wander Franco card owners wanting a refund. 🤣

Kurt's Card Cleaner got a shout out for cleaning the Wemby card that got a PSA 10. I have SOO many questions! Lol

I have a patrick Mahomes downtown card and want to get it graded! Was told not to send it to PSA cause they’ll rip me off with upcharges! Not sure where to get it graded now!

Thanks for the photo clarification

Great video 10! 🤟

Man. What a great interview. While I still believe cards should be able to be cleaned, I respect PSA’s reasoning behind their decision.

Buy the CARD,,,, NOT THE GRADE> : )

Not a single hard question asked and barley any question answered. Classic

They gave a 10 to the WEMBY that they knew was "cleaned" with Kurt's card care.....

I handed over cards to a group submitter on March 23, dual graded, regular, and bulk. My dual graded order( 5 cards ), and my regular (1 card) shipped this week, and my dual graded cards were done before the 1 sent at the regular level! I was shocked!

Gage R&R results are needed for each grading company and should be made public. This could be a competitive advantage if your company is consistent in their evaluations. Additionally, new employees should be tested for consistency before being allowed to grade actual cards. It sounds like all of PSA’s actions to drive consistency are reactive.

I agree with your opening statement. I collect and buy graded and raw. I have never submitted because I don't know enough about it.

As a Yu-Gi-Oh! Collector, One Piece, Digimon and Weiss Schwarz are really popular!

Great conversation thank you

So the guy thanks Kurt's card care on his video in the PSA headquarters while he receives his PSA 10, but yet he tell this guy he didn't use any of the products on the card what a load of crap😂 PSA just wanted to make sure that expensive card was in their holder and nobody elses

Either way that Wemby was no way a 10...

GOD BLESS YOU BOTH GREAT SHOW!!!

Speaking of altering... altering is "any change from how was originally produced/made" then a crease, fold, scratch, anything that happens after the pack is opened, would technically, be altering... right?

Can he make a column for serial number cards

Geoff, awesome interview man!

Mine is going 3months now and counting

The President of a company is having to approve refunds for overgrading or other mistakes? Interesting business model.....his time has to be better spent elsewhere unless he doesn't trust/empower his team or his is a micromanager.

great video! thanks for doing the interview

I noticed that I have had 2 orders shipped back from NJ (baseball cards) and the grading was much tougher? Has anyone else seemed to notice this?

I hope someone counterfeits a card so good that psa gives a near mint and the card sells over 500,000 dollars then 5 years after psa goes out of business

Insurance explanation is garbage and everyone who has 5 seconds of business experience knows it. Just admit, they act like real estate agents, making feeding of someone else's actual expense outlay (cos of the card), profit margin (sale price of the card) and found a way to steal huge portions of wealth without ever spending their own money, and PSA fan boys LOVE IT. They rofit on every ard graed, without EVER buying a single card. PSA are geniuses like the mob bosses were, everyone subbing with PSA is a mark.

I’d love to have heard him talk about getting back to a 10 that’s perfectly centered really perfect some of these should be 9 this has created a marketplace where raw cards go for what a 9 does because a 9 is close enough to a raw when a 10 really isn’t perfect I wish they would adjust this some what or figure out the difference and really set apart a 10 from a 9 better. It affects the overall market it seems like.

I hear this and it sounds like things I have a problem with PSA about are being addressed and the future PSA will be better. The cert number is going to become very important in the future bigger numbers will be far more accurate. Oldest numbers will be overgraded stuff. Stuff graded recently will be a mixed up bunch that people will be scrutinizing what it actually should have been graded. The main focus of the last few years was “keep up”, not “be accurate”. I think they have heard enough complaints to realize that cannot keep happening.

My Order are coming back quicker. Wishing more 10s oh well lol.

We at PSA make mistakes. In order for us to protect ourselves against mistakes, we need an insurance policy. We would like the customer to pay the premium on that policy in the event we screw up. Thank you.

He's right about dual service. I have a 6 card order that's still at the grading stage and it was entered into their system in December