Scroll to about 30min in We had some audio issues and it took at about 30min before you can hear me talking. This was my first time using this platform which I did through zoom. so had to figure a few things out.
I know it was born here but anthropologically speaking Its deep rooted structures are found in African cultural retentions. If you don't understand or haven't studied anthropology you don't realize that I agree with you. I just understand how what we do here in America is tethered to African traditions, in relation to form, function, etc., and understanding the significant units (aesthetics) that make up form and function as well the morphology of cultural practices through migration. But again if you haven't studied anthropology you may not appreciate what I'm sharing or saying. However, please provide me with your structural analysis as to why black American culture is not tethered to African retention. Give me the documentation, the articles, books, etc that support your statement. You can read chronicling cultures, by Robert Kemper and Anya Peterson Royce, signifying, sanctifying, & slam dunking by Gena Dagel Caponi, Africanisms in American culture by Joseph E Holloway, Migrations of Gesture by Carrie Noland and Sally Ann Ness, Black Culture and black consciousness, by Lawrence W. Levine, African Rhythm and African Sensibility by John Miller Chernoff, The Spirituals and the Blues by James H Cone, The Making of African America by Ira Berlin. Perhaps these books will help you grasp the bigger picture. So, Bro, you stop and do some real research, present real evidence to support your claim, because I can prove everything I have to share and it's supported by amazing scholarship in the field. Bring your evidence then we can have a real conversation. Thank you for your comment, have a blessed day
There was a time I believed these intellectuals were unaware of how cultures and their people could be erased because of their love and commitment to Africa. I nolonger believe that. The evidence is in their faces. It's as simple as taking a half glass of water filling it up with a coke. It's noloner water. They are deliberately participating in our eraser. Every accomplishment is credited to Africa, however the negative aspects of our community seems to be all ours, you never hear them compare Black American gangs to African gangs. They are erasing us from all sides. Their accomplices are Presidents of HBCUs, politicians, judges,etc. I guess anthropology only covers Africa, Argentina would be a good place to start, 97% European today.
@@moncelldurdenintangibleroo4855 Stop lying dude with all that out of Africa bs.If you are well studied then you should know calling yourself an African is calling yourself just above a animal entity.Like Kendrick Lamar said ain't none of y'all non FBAs are like us so stop with the bs.
I don’t think the people who identify with FBA understand what cultural retention, and deep-rooted structure means. Somehow you think I’m saying, the music and dance in America was created in Africa and that’s not what anyone is saying. The deep-rooted structures, characteristics of behavior, and retentions are of the Africanist aesthetic.You realize that the dances, music, foods, religion, etc., throughout the Southern Islands, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Brazil, etc., are all rooted in African retentions as well as some European customs. The African retentions are not just found in America; they are found throughout the African-diaspora. Brazilian Capoeira has roots in the Angola Ostrich dance, the Berimbau developed from the earth bow, the roots of Cuban music is from Spain and West Africa, etc. Just as Africans brought their cultures and customs to America, they brought them to the Southern Islands first. And again, that doesn't mean that new things and approaches were not created throughout the Americas. Hip Hop, Blues, Gospel, lindy hop, jazz, etc., was created in America but has its roots in Africa.
@@moncelldurdenintangibleroo4855 Sir that is not true what you're saying some of our character Behavior deep rooted structure come from European too so it's a mixture of everything that means it's a new creation
Interesting video! However, the point of the film Microphone Check is simply to set the record straight that the statement that during the 1960’s and early 70s (a very specific period of time of creation) the “African Diaspora” or “Latino’s contributed 50/50 percent” to the creation of American Hip Hop was false. There is no claim that Black American Descendants of the Institution of Slavery have no ties to African Culture. There is no claim that Black American created music (negro spirituals, Jazz, Blues, Hip Hop, etc.) do not contain any remnants of some cultural elements (call and response, certain rhythms, etc.) from the continent of Africa. Similar to Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad, etc. (any former slave colony), Black Americans have some connection to the continent of Africa. We could say the same thing about Brazil, Belize and many other nations in the Caribbean, Central and South America. But to claim that Black Americans do not create entirely new genre’s of music (using instruments that did not exist on the continent of Africa) is ahistorical. To claim that Jamaicans, Puerto Ricans, and others “created” Hip Hop (Break Dancing, Grafitti, DJing, Scratching, Rapping, etc.) is like saying Black Americans did not create Gospel, R & B, Jazz, Country, Blues , Rock & Roll, Ragtime, etc. It is disrespectful and only done to our Black American culture. No one says Africans did not create Afrobeats (even though Fela Kuti credits Black Americans for helping create the sound). No one says Jamaicans did not create Reggae or Dance Hall (even though the founders including Marley acknowledged Black American influences). No one says samba, bossanova, and other Latin music is not theirs (again Black Jazz influenced the creation of those genres). No. People only say Black Americans did not create anything and just remixed what they had retained from their African roots for 400+ years. And when Black Americans try to say no that is not correct, we are shamed and accused of “self hate,” “hating on Africa, or simply “anti-Black.” Why is this done only to Black Americans? In closing, we must acknowledge that the academic field of anthropology has never done a deep dive into the true history of the Americas. We know the Olmec, Toltec, Mayan and Aztec people were of dark skin. They have pyramids as old as the pyramids in Egypt and literally thousands of them. We have no idea of the level of trade that might have occurred before 1492 between America and Africa. For example, Mali may have arrived as early as the 1100s. We know from the 1828 Webster dictionary that an American was defined as the “copper colored races found here by the European.” Thus, many of the original Indian Tribes (e.g., Ohlone Indians in California or the Wampanoag in Massachusetts) were dark skinned. Yet, Africana Centers at colleges across the nation fail to discuss these issues. Why? While I have and will always support Pan Africanism as expressed by Malcom X, I must give all the former slave colonies respect for their original and unique post slavery culture. That is why I do not refer to Black Americans as merely Africans living in America. If we force Black Americans to only identify as Africans then we must also call Jamaicans, Haitians and other Caribbean people merely Africans on a bunch of islands in the Atlantic. That feels wrong.
Agreed. Once again you are missing my point. Black Americans have created gospel through their expression of psalmody and adding lyrics that spoke to the agrarian labor. This also steep in the movement of the ring shout that helped African cultivate a sense of community ring shouts turned into field hollers, which turned into praise houses which turned into churches. I personally don't subscribe to Black as a permanate defining label because black is a construct. The Largest percentage of my family lineage comes from Moscogee Indian on this continent and Mozambique on the mother land. To abrogate my lineage just because I was born here seems wrong to me. but I digress, yes "black" Ameircans created all those things here, hip hop, rock n roll, the blues etc which really developed after the emancipation because before then songs focused on negro spirituals which were coded language about escaping and singing about free after. Blues came out of being thinking they were free, but life got worse hence the blues. The word Jazz can be found in many languages in Africa; Jasi with the Mandinka people means out of character, Bantu speaking people "Jaja" means to make dance, Wolof speaking people "Yees" means the same to dance, Temne people "Yas", meaning to be lively, energetic applied to music dance even sex. The work Hip is connected to a wolof word meaning to open one’s eyes, some believe would be spelled Xippi or hippi check John Leland book on the history of the word Hip. Geneva Smitherman author of Talking and Testifying. We have created new dances here as well, the dances are new, but the structure of the dance is Africanist aesthetics, like orientation to the earth, poly rhythms and polycentrism, percussiveness, carrying something in one’s hand, etc. See my point is what we have create here which does speak to our unique experiences in America are still connected to the African retention. Baptism in church for another example is a connection to the Yoruba practice and Orisha ritual that recognizes the marriage between yemaya goddess of the sea and Obatala father of many Orisha. Senior usher board members two stepping down the aisle in church come from the ring shout. Ragtime music was based on "black" folks playing Philip Sousa music with an african sense of time and rhythm. Syncopating the music. So, the "time" was different hence march time music like Sousas Stars and Strips but musicians like Scott Joplin Africanized the beat created Ragtime. Anthropology as a field has not focused on African American practices which is why I did. My research focuses on the deep-rooted structures of our characteristics of behavior. I hope this little bit helps you all to understand the connection are rich which is all I'm saying. That we have created new things here but in the deep structure those things are fundamentally tethered to our ancestors who were brought here for hundreds of years. and with them came their cultural practices which and over time became what we have today. Again, thank you for the comment. Blessings
@@moncelldurdenintangibleroo4855 Thank you for the thoughtful response! However, your point is lost during the video as the desire to craft an "African Origin" for the efforts of American Descendants of Slavery (ADOS) is prioritized. As a result, your work unfortunately diminishes the unique genius of the ADOS population post slavery. For example, the word hip comes from the proto-Germananic term "hupiz" as well as a middle -English term "Hepe." Remember that English comes from Latin. While I would argue that ancient Germans were influenced by dark skinned North Africans (as was most of Europe from 700-1400 A.D. was) it would be speculation on my part to do so. Unfortunately, your work (and many others) do not dissect and scrutinize any other group's culture to the level of ADOS only to conclude any new creation is the result of a deep rooted "retention" of Wolof Language (or other ethnic group) that did not first appear until the 1500s. It is speculation to suggest that many (or most) slaves brought to the U.S. ever spoke that language. In addition, neither you nor anthropologists go into the history of the Muskogee tribe or other dark skinned indigenous American people. Maybe, Scott Joplin did not "Africanize" Souza's music but captured something from what was going on here in America from antiquity. Afterall, there is no Ragtime anywhere on the African continent. There simply is no scholarship (or interest) to draw "connections" to what was going on in the Americas pre-1492 or from 1500-1750 A.D. Black American or ADOS scholars only wish to always solely focus on our speculative connections to the continent of Africa (ignoring migration patterns, wars, ethnic divisions). At the same time never doing this to Jamaicans, Haitians, etc. This single-minded scholarship (much of it excellent) has the consequence of undermining ADOS accomplishments and group self-esteem. The argument becomes we are merely "a lost tribe of Africans" roaming around in America as a racial minority. It ignores the fact we are an ethnic majority (50.1 million people) who are not immigrants and influence the world. Much respect my brother!
@@vstpluginsonicxtc Thank you PluginSonic. So, what are your thoughts on the connection of the Ghanaian dance the Adowa to the Camel-walk, and the Charleston forming form the Yankadi from Guinea, that I offer in the video? I wouldn’t say crafted rather honoring both, what was drafted here and those retentions that survived. As far as the word hip It was British Linguist David Dalby that traced the likely origin of the hip to Wolof speaking people. Wolof being a phonetic language no one is sure how it would be spelled as it has a glottal sound, so the “H” is suggested. However, most scholars like Dalby, Leland, Smitherman, Holloway agree on the meaning “To open one’s eyes, or be aware of” in the same way we use the word. In the Jazz era it was Hep meaning you know what was going on, you were a Hep-Cat, or Hip in Hip Hop. Hop in an American context other than being a verb has meant to dance in the case of going to a sock-hop in the 1950s. Addressing English, yes, we know that English is a bastardized German, mixed up with Celtic languages. When the Anglish what some call the Anglo-Saxon went to Britain to help fight off the Romans. But the language in England was once RP Received Pronunciation, which has changed over time. What we speak here now is SAE Standard American English. It would take more than a comment post to go into Phonological and grammatical structures so what I will add is that Africans had their own languages and systems of sounds, and we find the modification of African linguistic retentions throughout the Diaspora. As linguist Dr. Erni Smith suggest we can see these retentions are noticeable when the mother tongue attempts to speak a new language. In the case of voice and voiceless some consonants clusters are spoken while others are not. Africans of the Bantu, Niger, and Congo learning to speak English would demonstrate homogeneous voicing meaning instead of saying “Fast” the (FT and ST) configuration are both voice “Black” folks will say fass, or “Past” we will say, pass but in heterogenous voicing we will say, a voice and voiceless configuration for example the word “Think” (NK) N is voice and K is voiceless, Jump (MP) configuration M is Voice and P is voiceless. AAE or AAVE. As far as my family roots I only brought that up to say that I will not negate my ancestry; and in so doing I would refer to myself as Afro-indigenous before “black” as I already mentioned black is a construct and is not a definitive identity trait. As to Scott Joplin Ragging the beat literally meant syncopating the beat which was done in Africa not in Europe. Ragtime was developed primarily by African Americans; It combined African based syncopation and polyrhythms with European music like John Philip Sousa march time music. It fused the marching band sound of Sousa with the Syncopation and improvisation of African music for a hybrid that swept the nation in the late 1890s. Along with Ragtime music came the animal dance craze with dances like the Camel-walk, Bunny hug, Grizzly bear, Turkey Trot, Snake Hip, Joplin songs Combination was inspired by Sousa “The Thunder march”, and the Great Crush Collision was inspired musically by the Sousa “Washington post march” and the Panic of 1893, when fear of an economic depression lead to a spectacle of crashing two trains to raise money. I’m curious as to why American “Black” people are so afraid to acknowledge that many of our retentions come from the motherland. And acknowledging that doesn’t take away from what we’ve created here. It’s says that what we do is not 60 years or even 400 years old, its much older and deeply rooted and rich with ancestral knowledge. “Black and blackness are themselves signs of diaspora, of a cosmopolitanism that African subjects did not choose but from which they necessarily reimagined themselves.” Moncia L. Miller I’m not sure what you’ve been reading but there is plenty of research. Here are a few books the check out. Enjoy and thank you for the correspondence • The SAGE Encyclopedia of African Cultural Heritage in North America. Of which I have two articles in by MWalimu J. Shujaa and Kenya J. Shujaa • Black Rhythms of Peru: Reviving African Musical Heritage in the Black Pacific • Funk: the music, the people and the rhythm of the one by Rickey Vincent • Dancing Many Drums: Excavations in African American Dance by Thomas F. DeFrantz • The Rhythms of Black Folk: Race, Religion, and Pan-Africanism by Jon Michael Spencer • Cool Pose: The dilemmas of black manhood in America by Richard Majors and Janet Mancini Billson • The Dozens by Elijah Wald • What makes that Black: the African American aesthetic in American expressive culture by Luana • The Creolization of American Culture by Christopher J. Smith • How Europe underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney • Bodies in Dissent by Daphne A. Brooks • Cuba and its Music: From the drums to the mambo by Ned Sublette • Slaves to Fashion Monica L. Miller • Dancing Wisdom Embodied Knowledge in Haitian Vodou, Cuban Yoruba, and Bahian Candomblé by Yvonne Daniel • The spirituals and the Blues by James H. Cone • The Drama of Nommo by Paul Carter Harrison • Music in the United States by H. Wiley Hitchcock • Black Indians: A hidden heritage by William Loren Katz • An Afro Indigenous history of the United States by Kyle T. Mays • An Indigenous people history of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz • Blood Memory by Dayton and Ken Burns • Afro-Latin America 1800-2000 by George Reid Andrews • Ring Shout Wheel About: The racial politics of music, and dance in north American culture by Katrina Dyonne Thompson • Hoedowns, Reels and Frolics: Roots and branches of Southern Appalachian Dance by Phil Jamison • Africans in Colonial Louisiana: The development of Afro-Creole Culture in the Eighteenth Century. By Gwendolyn Midlo Hall • National Rhythms, African Roots: the deep history of Latin American popular dance by John Charles Chasteen • Black Dance From 1619-to today by Lynne Fauley Emery • Afro-Cuban jazz by Scott Yanow • From Afro-Cuban rhythms to latin Jazz by Raul A. Fernandez
It took at second to get the audio working correctly so to beginning you will hear music while i get it together. Thank you to all those that brought their time and energy into this talk.
How's this for a Soul Train stroll line from a 1913 Black-cast film with Bert Williams: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i_4Pg8cUWNc.html Go to 6:45 to the end at 7:19 . Also, is this the guy doing the Russian kazakski that you were referring to?
Hey Judy yes, that is the clip I used from which featured Bert Williams. The line they are doing is connected to the Virgina Reel. I lot of structured dances in America were heavily influenced by European set dances. So the structure of the Soul Train line may have a kinship with the structure of the Virgina Reel but what makes it different it that the Soul Train line was specifically developed from the Camel-walk stroll. There is more to this and I might do a talk specifically on the history of line dances in America. I teach the class often but I've never done a talk on it.
@@moncelldurdenintangibleroo4855 I'm so old I remember the Virginia Reel -- learned it in grade school. What I thought was distinctly African-American in this clip was that each couple had their own unique style.
Thank you for sharing. In these times we need more people like you who cite their sources. Sad that Intangible Roots got taken down. I hope it becomes available again somehow.
Thank you Duncan, I appreciate your comment. My documentary "Everything Remains Raw" was taken down but It will be up on my website moncelldurden.com in late July. also all Intangible Roots information can now be found on my website.
Bro, I didn't even pay that dude no mind. Like how can you even let them words come out of your mouth unless like you said have an agenda. I/we appreciate you and how you make diggin for facts a norm of how things should be. I always question "but from where and when" or "but from who"
Professor Durden, Thank you for the education on dance. You seem to know your stuff. However, I really wish you and Tariq Nasheed could have worked together during his research. I totally understand what you are conveying; things & culture travels and MORPHOLOGY happens. I am not pro Tariq nor I'm not totally in disagreement with him, his views and his work. The most important thing that Tariq is trying to get 'Black Americans' and the rest of the world under and respect is all the things that the black American ancestors have created separately from their origins is 'OURS'! We are the only culture that has been doing this and other races, ethics groups and cultures successful take it from us and totally erase us from the historical perspective. Tariq is fighting hard to get all of us to stand up and fight to stop the steal.
Hello, thank you for your kind words, I appreciate you taking the time to review the offering and providing a response. An acquaintance tried to connect Tariq and I during the process of his filming but out paths never crossed. Africans and “Black” American have given the world everything. As we know “Black” Americans are responsible for traffic lights, pacemakers, GPS, etc., etc. These things are independent of an African experience and are born out of an experience on this stolen land. Of course, Africans are a creative people, so it stands to reason why that trait still exists in us. Whether we choose to agree, the lineage of our Africanness doesn’t cease to exist because we are born here. Our mitochondrial cellular memory explains that connection. Now when it comes to our spiritual practices and the arts body mechanics, value and means of dance, foods, rhythmic sensibilities, hairstyles, instrumentation, improvisation, the understanding that originality and individuality aren’t just appreciated they’re expected; those expressions hold more of the physical retention of the Africanist aesthetics. I agree “black” folks need to know and appreciate the values of our contributions to the global society as well as our ancestral legacy’s. And I applaud and support anyone’s efforts to do that; in the case of Tariq, he seems to be operating from a half empty glass on the perspective that it’s full. And so, I disagree with him some of the things he is saying. He appears to have this separatist mindset when it comes to our connection to an African thought process. Given the plight of “Black” folk in this country I understand the frustrations form the lack of acknowledgment. But he uses the underdevelopment of African by Europeans and the difference between Africa now and American accessibility to the social, political, economic, and environmental climate in America along with the national identity of American to blur the lines to create that separatist view. That fact that he addresses himself as a race baiter speaks of Eshu the divine trickster, and so I have reservations about his true intentions. But still open to civil dialog.
How can you black people argue about what race started hip hop when we stopped doing it in 75. The PR people kept it alive preserved and everything. And we threw it away. How sway????
Thank you Moncell for all the knowledge drop, its very appreciated everything you contribute to open peoples perspective. Even so, some are ver hard headed, people got to do their homework. I even saw a comment people are saying aztecs( wich are Mexica) mayan and olmecs are descendent of african, and that piramids are the same Egiptian and Mesoamerican, sorry but there are many distictions and functions, at least people should read some anthropology books for starters, thanks Moncell and will keep eyes and ears open 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
To be honest I’m not clear on what his true stance is, he does call himself a race baiter so this could all be a plan to generate more conversation around him. One of his followers told me they identify with old African but not this new Africans ??????? 😳
@@sleepyccs Going back is not worshiping buddy lol You can’t take hip hop out the bronx and then say we stopping at the south lol If your going back Go all the way back to the root
Original Man Can't Be Regulated To No Land Mass. The Entire Planet Belongs to The Righteous. FBA Is Still Original People, Direct Descendants of The Originator!! You Can't Use Africa to Regulate US
Thank you so much for this. I was told that he tried to insinuate that the swastika symbol from the outlaws in the 70s was Puerto Ricans being racist against blacks. Not so. Many outlaws from many gangs used that symbol. It was a menacing symbol that was used by the enforcers or the Gestapo. I have spoken to the former wife of Benji who was the president of the savage skulls. She confirms this.
Here is the link from the Transatlantic slave trade Atlas. Atlas of slave trade www.slavevoyages.org/ My comments on tariq RU-vid ru-vid.comQKxW1SkP9GY?si=OcZvft2A71eguNeE Tariq Referencing my comment ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dc_6Luajjnc.htmlsi=Iv7FnXhvbeQYPdUo
This was fantastic!! I didn't think I'd make it through the whole 3 hours, but I divided it up. There is no question in my mind of the continuity from thousands of years old African cultural forms and much of what we see in African-American culture today.. Why aren't more people doing what Moncell is doing: a close analysis of dance (or music) to discover the underlying patterns, which are repeated and altered in fascinating ways. I have a few small comments but will have to dig up some old video to make points. I would like to see that the 10 Sefirot (Hebrew) are from the Kabbalah, so yes it is pretty old. Thank you for this fascinating cultural study!
No one is clowning you. The allegations, inconsistencies, and deleting videos of your own Puerto Rican brothers readily admitting that Black Americans created Hip Hop before any Puerto Ricans were invoved are what display your efforts in a comical light. And nothing said on this channel rips the creation of Hip Hop from the domain of FBA. Common origins, similar mannerisms, and African cultural influences do not steal Hip Hop from its rightful creators. No amount of intellectualizing or gaslighting will do that. Primary sources, i.e., people who were actually there, have already declared the origin of Hip Hop. Anything after that is gaslighting. Joseph, after being sold into slavery, rose to be the top ruler under Pharaoh. Joseph did that, not all of Israel. Africa has different ethnicities, tribes, clans, etc. The achievements of one ethnicity are not the achievements of another. Anything other than that is a Judas move. Now, I won't go into how heinously and intentionally separate that your community were in those early days from FBA. Nothing you say now overrides that tendency in your community. As long as that exists, stop claiming Africa.
I disagree with you on what the Puerto Rican bboys did. The foundational crews begin in 75 with TBB. Puerto Ricans. All of the moves that we see in breaking come from the foundation of the Puerto Rican bboys. Facts.
