Very helpful video! I so wish I had this as a reference back when we bought our first Fadal about 5 years ago! We went from a Tormach running Mach3, and the learning curve was steep... We're now up to 3 machines (2x 4020s and a VMC15); you can't beat the value on these machines, especially if you are willing to do the work yourself. You're probably safer being in a garage- it's easy to end up with a small herd of them!
Great video. It’s been several years since I used one in my job and now I’m considering buying one for myself. Glad to have this as a reference; it makes buying with no one else around less scary.
Great job Tim. And to the new Fadal owners, you are very lucky to have this info spoon fed like this. Some of these things may seem simple when its outlined this well, but if you've never done it and have no one to teach you then it takes many hours of reading the manuals and trial and error to wrap ones head around it. I strongly suggest if your getting something from these vids that you at least consider throwing a couple bucks in the hat to support the channel and before you know it we may have some tool and touch probe help too ; )
Hi Steve, I wouldn't say we are spoon feeding anyone, just trying to provide a good resource that does not yet exist. Thank you for your donations, it is appreciated.
I love running these Fadal machines. They are very simple, easy to use, robust little machine. We got 2 of them in our shop. Compared to a Mori Seiki, you can have a FADAL up, Homed, Set and running within 10 min or less. Forgot to mention ours were the 5020A machines.
Thank you so much for your videos, they probably took s long time to make. But i dont know if i would have ever got my machine running if it wasn't for you thanks again.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm new to this Fadal controller and I really need to learn all the basics. I have been operating a Fagor 8025 controller for quite some time now, machining ceramics, but the Fadal controller has a lot more features than the Fagor. Once again, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I used one of these machines once, but it was rebranded as a Bridge Port, and the console might have been different it seems like. It was a nice machine.
i just started running your exact machine 2 days ago with Gibbs thank you for your information ive worked in a shop 5 years always manual machines thanks again
+At-Man Unlimited Machining yes i hear you i work in Detroit for the auto and aerospace industry we have bridgeports ,lucas horizontal,devlige all sorts thanks again
Hi Tim, Thanks for explaning DNC & DNCX. It broke 2 roughing endmills to cut 5x1/4 inch-3inches long keyways on one stainless steel shaft using adaptive clearing strategy and DNC. When I watched you vedio the other day, what I did was just switch to DNCX and it's solved the problem, many thanks, Shem
Your Welcome Shem. When I was making this video I wasn't going to cover DNC, but glad I did. If you are getting that frequent of issues with standard DNC I would suggest checking all your cabling and grounding. You might still see an issue with DNCX at some point if DNC was that bad.
Great video, just what I needed. We just picked up one of these old beasts and this was so much faster and more clear than digging through CNC-manual-ese. Cheers!
I dont mean to be off topic but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot my password. I appreciate any tricks you can offer me!
@Dexter Ishaan I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Don't know if you can help but is there a way to start in the middle of a program on a fadal 2040b with a 60mp control. Only way I can figure how to do it is starting at the line below the start position. But is there a way I can start it on any line? Thanks in advance
there are many usb to rs 232 that work fine if you turn off fiffobuffer in windows and set the delay to 50ms then it runs straight through without error,,
I haven’t used a Fadal in about 5 years. I’m at a shop now that has two of them and I can’t remember why we used the Set X and Set Y functions so frequent at that old shop I was at. I used it here and I had to go back and reset my cold start positions. So when is a good time to utilize the Set X and Set Y commands? I don’t remember having large values on the DF table under all 3 Axis.
Here in Southern California and looking at buying my first CNC Milling Center. It’s a 2014 vintage Fadal . This is the first version of Fadals built in Taiwan after the Fadal Family sold the company and closed down manufacturing in California. Has anyone any experience with this machine? Is it a good machine? Thanks for any answers!
Haven't ran one of these in 20 yrs...my new job has 2 of them. I remember a function where you could execute the program by turning the hand wheel. You could even spin it backwards and the program would go in reverse! Does anyone remember how to get into this mode? Any help is appreciated.
One more I forgot to ask. At the start you explain the groove of the tool holder can go in either way--however you then mention depends on how your tool changer is set up and you put the deep groove towards the toolchanger but with no explanation. It left me with the feeling that I dont know what might happen because how does a person know if their tool changer is set up special like you mentioned?? could you explain that? thanks video was excellent not only did I watch it word for word but i typed it out word for word on one sheet of paper for reference--a trick I have used for years since its impossible to remember everything verbally while out in the shop.
Fadal designed there spindle to use BT or CAT 40 holders. To switch tool holder styles one just needs to flip over the tool changer platter and replace the clips. Because of this the tool holders will actually go in both ways. You just get a little more clearance if you put the deeper notch on a CAT40 in toward the center of the tool changer.
No problem, thanks Mark. Opening the tool changer really lets you get the tools in and out fast. My preferred method unless I'm only doing 1 tool. Feel free to email me, the address is in the video description. Thanks again, Tim
Tengo una fadal 6030 y mi problema es que al hacer un cambio de herramienta el eje z no sube lo suficiente y para por ejemplo si debe subir 4 pulgadas solo sube 2 pulgadas y se faulea alguna sugerencia??? Gracias por su atencion
I'm positive it was originally referring to punched tape. Besides the TA command there is also a PU (short for punch) command to write the program that is stored inside the Fadal to a paper punch, connected to the serial port. So that's a way to save your work and simultaneously put the VMC to use as a confetti maker ;-) The Fadal user manual section 14 "Communications" has a little bit of information about the subject. It talks very briefly about paper punches and teletype machines. As an example it mentions a certain "DSI LRP300" punch, why they don't say. Yes even in the 80s this was old technology already, but in numerical control things didn't always move so fast. I guess also part of it is just that the terminology got carried over. It may well be true that cassette tapes and other media were in use at some point to replace the paper tape readers/punchers. My personal interest in this is that I have an acquaintance who has a VMC15 and I said I would get it connected to a network. There's a capable DNC addon unit that you can buy for a couple of hundred USD, but I'm thinking a Raspberry/Orange Pi with an RS232 adapter and some sort of script should work as well. It's just a fun challenge for me. Your videos are a real help, glad to have found them.
In support of the other reply here about paper tape and punching.... Yes. In 1986, I was working for a company running a large Mori Seiki mill with Fanuc control. All programs were manually written in pencil on paper, then entered at the machine keyboard (A comfortable console, by the way, while sitting on a stool). Then, any program that wasn't stored in the control was fed to a paper tape punch built into the right rear of the machine. We'd roll up that long tape when the machine was finished punching, wrap a piece of adhesive tape around it and label what the program was for. Seems like a stone tablet and chisel, these days! By the way, that same year, the Company bought a new Fadal... so there ya go.
good day, I am writing to you with the help of a translator because I do not know English, it so happened that I now have to work on fadal and I have a problem, I do not know how to move all the tools when I start processing a new part and I need to bind many tools to another surface , in this video you tell me how to do it, I have been interested since the 15:50 minute of this video, and I still can't do it, maybe you can tell me where I can see this information. Thank you
Hi Tim, I want to share my observation regading DNC/DNCX if you and the others did not face it yet. I've noticed that DNC is not my issue, servo amplifer/drive is. My Y axis servo amplifer draw current about %65 of power and gets hot when it moves rapid a half circle motion like cutting long 1/4 inch keyway using adaptive clearing stratigy therefore, the controller stops the amp receiving power for a moment while the other axes are doing their job and that moment is enough for tool to collide with the part hard. I did swap the X and Y axes amps to see if the X axis amplifier gets hot but it didn't. I need to buy a new amp or send it for repair, I'm going to study it. Thanks .
Hi Shem, You came across one of the issues I saw with the Fadal design when I was reviewing the wiring for the machine. I was surprised there was not a signal from the drive that indicated a fault to the controller. They only use position following error for there e-stop trip. Well, as you see, that does not cover you very well in all cases. What is most likely happening is the drive is going into thermal fault for a bit but the position commands are so small they don't trip the following limit and you break your tool off. Small HSM tool path like you describe really put a load on the system because your constantly accelerating, decelerating, and reversing the load. Recall F=MA and in this case you almost always have accelerations so you need a lot of force over a long time, and that is work, which is power.... You get the idea. What I would suggest before you go and replace the drive is go through the gain setup and balance procedure. If the gain and balancing are off on that drive it could cause "Dither" or noise in the current loop. This can cause a lot of heating. If all that checks out there might be something with the drive. Something could be causing the IGTB's to dissipate more power for various reasons at high current loads. It's on the list to make a video on how to do balancing and maybe drive trouble shooting and how the drives actually work.
Your a great teacher Tim, Just got an old 4020 and this is really helpfull. One question (you may have said but I missed?), - I have written a program, stored it so how do I call and run it (assume tools are all correct etc and I am ready to start machining). I'll probably have more Q's down the line. Thanks, Steve T
Steve, you can use the "PR" command to switch between programs. Once you have your program selected you can use "PA" to edit and view it. Then press auto to just start it from the beginning.
Thank you Tim, I’m going back at it all day Sunday to get my job loaded, great help thanks. The manual is great but very detailed so watching your video and pausing to pick up certain bits and writing them down is very helpful 👍, appreciated thx Steve T
One more question. On haas and other machines and fanuc. I am used to telling the machine where to go in mdi simply by typing in for example g0-g90-g54-xy zero--push start. (such as to confirm zero setup on a dialed hole) On the fadals is there no mdi page to simply do that and hammer in a few lines to tell it to go to a location or is it the long process of entering a line by line full program??
Press the "Manual" button and you get the MDI screen, same thing. The similar command would be G0 G90 G54 X0.0 Y0.0 then push enter, then the first line you need to push start. After that the moves execute on the enter key.
I have a VMC 20 and I have corrected the back lash. when I cut in X the finish is good. When I cut in Y the finish is good but when i cut with both axis combined I get a wavy rippled finish on side walls of edges of a part. do you know what will cause this?
huge huge question. At the end of the day I do not understand why you want to wipe out all the tool offsets?? A job could still be running. Why would you want to wipe out all your tool settings?? Why not send it home and shut the machine off? I know there must be an answer that it does not wipe out all the offsets. Another question. There is an old 4020 we are trying to get up and running and there is no 232 line hookup to the machine. We want to have a thumbdrive put in for a modern usb thumbdrive. Could the machine then read off the thumbdrive just as if the machine now had a huge memory?? Or does some dnc software still have to be used? The machine has an ancient floppy disk thing on it that has not been used for decades. Can it simply have a thumbdrive installed or is it that easy? At one shop we used a dnc box that was plugged in at the side of the machine--so I believe its not as easy and just hooking up a thumbdrive. Any info appreciated this is a small shop trying to get an old machine running. There are no millions of dollars to fly out a squadron of experts. thanks
it really makes me nervous that if reading from the thumbdrive--that because of parity and error checking--that the machine could crash out of the blue at any time??
Jeff Your not wiping out all the tool offsets. The way you home this machine is to restore the home position back to the cold start location and send it home. If you leave the TCS offset in place it will not go back to cold start. When you turn the machine back on in the morning it will ask you if you want to return to the previous TCS offsets and you say yes and its ready to go. All the tool offsets and fixture offsets never change. Just the TCS offsets. It is all gone through in detail in the manuals. USB did not exist when these machine where made. You should have a serial port on the machine, the cable between the cabinet and the com board might be missing. Some of the floppy drives would use the serial port as well. You need some type of DNC controller to drip feed the machine if the programs are to big. Calmotion makes USB and ethernet DNC boards to retro fit the machine.
Thanks Joshua, little late getting the next one out. Should be coming soon. Had a bunch of work come in, plus getting the house set for winter, so I was slammed the last week and this week.
Interesting, did you install it in the controller cabinet or the pendent cabinet? I put my custom controller right next to the machine com port card with a short twisted shield cable.
Hi Tim, Great videos, High-quality content, Great information, you answered a lot of the questions in my head, Thank you. I'm considering buying a VMC, probably Fadal (there is a lot of them at a reasonable price), can you make a video talking about what to look for when buying a used VMC? and what makes a difference in price between 2 same model machines? thanks a lot, keep the good work :)
Thanks Joseph, have you watched the series on buying a CNC mill? That is a good guide to go over some of the planning involved. I can make a video on what to look for and why the price swings so greatly. It basically comes down to a market value and how much effort it is to get that machine running to specs again. Many of the machines out there are just beat to snot. Those are the cheap ones, to get them back to spec they need a lot of parts and labor. The top dollar machines are typically running and making good parts. They don't need any work, turn key and run. What you find is if you add up the cost to fix a cheap machine and compare to a good machine the total cost is about the same. But that includes labor, so if you can get a cheap machine and do all the work your self, then you can come out ahead a little depending how you value your time.
At-Man Unlimited Machining OH man, I watched all your videos, actually what draw me to your channel is the VMC vs personal cnc series.. First of all, thanks for your reply. , but what i mean is a more detailed video of your answer. What is the most critical parts to investigate, what are the parts which has a replacement and which does not have a replacement, for example: how to investigate the spindle? what makes a good coolant pump, what are the available types of servo motors and their variations, what is the possible upgrade kits, the controller and its versions, and finally you may suggest some good dealers or repair houses. I fully understand that you have a limited time, these questions are just suggestions of a future content. Again, Thanks man, you are awesome.
This might have been covered in the video series but one of the most important things is to check on if this is going into your garage is to your local ordinances. My city does not allow production to be run from a residence. Further I'm not allowed to have anything in my garage over 9 amps. The latter is particularly comical as I have half a dozen hand tools that exceed that. If you do find a problem with codes, don't give up. Talk to your neighbors. I brought pictures of the machine, explained how the coolant is recycled as well as the aluminum chips and promised this would not be an irritant for the neighborhood. I even mentioned I could help them with the occasional project. No one had an issue. As the machine will likely be delivered on a massive flat bed truck and installed with a 32,000 lb fork lift, it's hard to sneak it in so cover your bases. Once in, do what you can to abate the noise. I moved to a quieter compressor and take moderate cuts. I also run with the garage door closed and have a zero tolerance policy for cutting chips outside the garage. You can insulate but longer runs will need decent ventilation unless you like breathing atomized coolant. If the neighbors are happy, the city has no reason to get involved. By the way, you may need to upgrade your electrical box. I run a 50A breaker to the mill (it's a 4020 with a 20hp spindle set up for single phase) and a 60A breaker to the compressor. Also, take a serious look at your air delivery system to make sure you are delivering dry air. Wet air is bad for your spindle. You can buy an air dryer. I don't have the space so I run about 50 feet of copper followed by a vertical trap with a drain valve at the base and then upto a water separator. I get lots of water out of that drain valve but the system works so well, almost nothing makes it to the separator. The line then runs up and over the tool. I have one drop for an air gun at the front. Before that is the drop for he mill. It exits the line in the upward direction then turns down and terminates with a quick connection for the flex line to mill. The upward exit is the last measure for protecting the mill and is specifically recommended by Fadal. Good luck.
i am just about to look at a vmc 10. Any info on recommendations for a rotary phase converter? If you have a desktop PC with any open slots, likely you can find a very cheap serial port card that will control at correct clock speed. The tape input was a punched paper tape, even less than a magnetic tape, yet after the punch cards, lol.
American rotary makes really good converters at good prices. Everyone seems to use them and there good people. Yes, any standard serial port card should work. Most USB to serial adapters do not work.
thanks for the reply! We recently acquired a 1998 VMC15XT and have yet to fire it up. Watching your autobiography vid, you are much like my boss. He is a PE, welding engineer, structural consultant...very verse in tech, etc..... Your videos are a wealth of knowledge, thank you for creating them!
When you line up the Y flag.....is it a visual operation, or do you use a straight edge to ensure it's "close", since there are no visual markers like on the Z and X?
I reach down a run my finger across the gap, you only need to get it within about 0.05" for it to be fine. Even at 0.1" it should still find its way, but your at the absolute limit. It equates to being within a half turn of the ball screw. Also, once you set the cold start position, as long as you shut down at that position it should always just stay there till the next time you start up.
Hi At-main , great help with your videos , Quick question ,we just get an CNC fadal 88, 4020 . the menus are in French CE Version V94.1 T1-3 ,how can we reset to English version (so we can read English menus ? )if we use the Zero memory will reset it? Thank you
our company just bought two new fadals, the screens are totally different. i still havent figured out how jump down through the code properly like on a fanuc control. on a fanuc i would let the machine read the tool length offset number. but then when i go to start program from a line further down in that tool, it jumps back up to the start of the tool. people at fadal told me to put number lines back into my post which i did. then i tried and the machine drove straight for the machine table. havent tried it since. cant find any information anywhere about how to do this, even in the control manual. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Starting a program from a specific line number is a pain with Fadal. I try to avoid it at. Any time I do start mid program, I only do it at a tool change so I know the offsets will get applied correctly. Check out the operator manual section 8 commands, use the PA command to browse the program looking for the correct line, then the AU command to start at that line.
Fadal uses software limits in there machines. As long as you cold start the machine properly you should never be able to hit an end stop. They also made there hard stops not so hard by using a stack of belvel springs in the event it does hit the stop for some reason. If you crash the machine for any reason they rely on following error to stop the machine not servo current.
Getting ready to down load the manual. I have an older 4020. I was wondering if yours has the z flag position dimensions? My machine appears to be missing the z flags. Somehow the previous owners managed without them....
Wow, not sure how. If you cold start the machine at the wrong Z position it can crash the tool changer. You will either need to buy or make a new Z flag and then run the setup procedure to properly set the cold start position. It is in the manual or you can watch my Z ball screw replacement video to see it done.
Great Video,,Just got vmc 15,, I’m pretty sure I can do everything except TA,1 and stream g-code to the machine effectively,,, really gotta figure it out,,, I would like to create detailed 3D image on Aluminum, and curious at what speed this machine will run??? How many inches per minute can we achieve on this machine?
Hello Kenneth, speed has many factors. If the code will fit into memory and you have the spindle speed and power you can get 100 IPM out of it. The max feed rate spec is 250 IPM but I have not tried over 100 yet.
At-Man Unlimited Machining if I can figure out how to exactly send the code to the machine thru the serial port,,, I’m hoping that it can feed the code fast enough during the fine detailing machining process. I’m just hoping the machine doesn’t stutter waiting for instructions due to the choke point of data transfer,, do you have video on how to upgrade the memory of the machine
Well I guess if I am using DNCx then I would have to upgrade processor,, fine detailing will probably cause starvation with what I want to create at higher speed :( will have to test it
I have a simple DNC program that will stream to the machine, email me for more details. I did a video on how to upgrade and review of the older Fadal boards, you should see how to upgrade there. It is not cheap but you can buy the memory from Fadalcnc.com Make sure to check which version boards you have.
Hi At-Man. I have a question about the format 1 and format 2 of fadal. I have a 4020 VMC with control cnc88. I did a program with Mastercamx5, but one run and other dont run and show me the next error: Spindle drive fault. I show you my two versions of gcode in mx5 (defaul mill). This RUN FINE. % (123) (DATE=DD-MM-YY - 16-08-17 TIME=HH:MM - 20:25) (MCX FILE - C:\USERS\HP\DESKTOP\CAJA.MCX-5) (NC FILE - E:\123.NC) (MATERIAL - ALUMINUM INCH - 2024) ( T231 | 3/32 FLAT ENDMILL | H231 ) N100 G20 N102 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 N104 T1 M6 N106 G0 G90 G54 X-.5778 Y-1.2285 A0. S5704 M3 N108 G43 H0 Z.2039 N110 G1 Z-.0061 F90. N112 Y-1.739 Z-.0083 F25. N114 X-.5796 Y-1.7478 Z-.0084 N116 X-.5819 Y-1.7513 Z-.0085 ...................................................................I short the program. This dont run...................................................................... % O0000(O0002) (DATE=DD-MM-YY - 05-05-17 TIME=HH:MM - 12:25) (MCX FILE - C:\USERS\ROMULO\DESKTOP\BATMAN.MCAM) (NC FILE - C:\USERS\ROMULO\DESKTOP\O0002.NC) (MATERIAL - ALUMINUM INCH - 2024) ( T285 | 1/4 FLAT ENDMILL | H285 ) N10 G20 N12 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 N14 T01 M6 N16 G0 G90 G54 X.4089 Y2.7344 S2292 M3 N18 G43 H01 Z2. N20 Z.1 N22 G1 Z-.0466 F6.42 N24 G2 X.9283 Y2.3512 I-.3937 J-1.0772 F10. N26 X.9645 Y2.2599 I-.097 J-.0913 N28 X.9515 Y2.2023 I-.1332 J0. N30 G3 X.9343 Y2.1267 I.1578 J-.0756 I dont know what is wrong. That happed for the formats of fadal? I hoping for you answers.
Hello, there are many differences in how the machine behaves and expects canned cycles to be formatted between Format 1 and Format 2. I suggest running on Format 2 as it behaves like a Fanac controller would. I would suggest downloading the user manuals from Fadalcnc dot com and read through them. They describe the difference in operation between the formats. As for the code, just looking at it quick, I'm not sure you can have a program number of zero "O0000". Try changing it to a non zero number and see if that works.
Hey man, my vmc 15xt has some kind of problem - x axis servo brake won't release when I power up the machine. On the read out in x axis row i get "25", while on y and z they are 0 and 1. Any opinion? Thx man, your videos helped a lot to me!
@@AtManUnlimitedMachining Meanwhile, foundout the same and trying to solbe the problem. Its amp that is giving me hard time. Sorry for dumb question. Thanks!
I'm very interested in your program, hope we can find out more about it soon. will it work with any machine, or specifically for fadal. I would be happy to test it with my yasnac mx3.
LOL, just as I was typing a comment to Sketch. As of right now I was targeting Fadal. If you have the documentation that describes how your machine wants programs sent to it and or the DNC modes send me an email. Depending on how much work it is we can expand what I'm working on.
They really have a nice straight forward controller. When I first started running the machine it did not make sense but the more I ran it the more I liked it.
Hi Glen, Your the first to ask and I never really thought about it. Send me an email with the specifics of where, when, and what your thinking about and we can see what we can do. My email address is in the description of every video. Thanks for the inquiry. Tim
Hi Joe, Thanks for stopping by. Your probably using the CalMotion device. They make a USB and Ethernet version. What I did is similar but it helps streamline my work flow. I also had the hardware laying around so it was "free". I programmed my device to be able to access network storage directly. When I generate code from CAM it goes directly to my NAS. Then I just walk over to the machine and can access the file and run it. Skips the whole sneaker net or needing to FTP to some other device.
I considered the whole cable route, but my shop has high amp welding. In the absence of very shielded cable, I was informed the code was subject to corruption by the RF present. The USB plug and play is very quick and works well for me. I do use the Cal Motion unit. It was north of $500 to set it up, but it is incredibly fast and well worth the investment.
Yes, running a long serial cable is NOT advisable. The CalMotion is a great device, I would recommend them for sure. My embedded controller uses Ethernet to communicate with the network storage. It downloads the file from the NAS to local storage. This way even if you lose the Ethernet the DNC program will not be effected.
Podría hacer de un video en español o subtitularlo en español por favor, me compre una VMC 4020, de 1993 la verdad estoy muy perdido con ese controlador, no sé cómo iniciar y poner en marcha, yo he manejado lo que es haas 2011 para una compañía, me independice con la máquina que les digo, pero si tengo muchos problemas con tratar de poner en cero los ejes, set de las herramientas o sea desde el inicio, ayuden por favor necesito ya poner en marcha el VMC
I'm sorry your having issues with your machine. But you can say that about a lot of things. There are a lot of Fadal owners turning out parts everyday with great success. When buying any used machine it is critical to inspect and know what your buying. Even high end machine builders make a lemon now and then, I have seen them first hand.
