I really loved getting to do this video with these guys! I've been a big fan of Lloyd and his work for a very long time and so getting involved is a truly awesome experience. Of course, after the interview I thought of more things I wish I had said, but I hope it helps others to know that they aren't alone. When we were officially disfellowshipped in 2005, I looked for support and there was very little compared to what it available today. We lost so many friends and family members, but we were able to get out before our sons were indoctrinated and that means so much. I hope to see the end of this cult in my lifetime.
Excellent video. I wasn’t disfellowshipped but chose to write a letter of disassociation to the Watchtower society. After being mistreated for years and protecting my pedophile Father they sent two elders to my door. They told me that they “took away his privileges” as if that in any way impacted the psychological damage that I incurred as a young child through teenage years. They then suggested that now that I was an adult they would support me “pressing charges” against him. WTF?? At this point I had no wish to put an old man in jail since I’d already cut him out of my life, prosecution wouldn’t do anything to make up for the abuse. They then asked me if I would come back since I had their support. I laughed and told them my disassociation letter stands and suggested they visit www.silent lambs.org. I’ve been shunned and treated poorly by people I don’t even know because of my disassociation. I want no parts of a legalistic, warped cult such as that again.
@ Jazz-Time I couldn't agree more! I left on my own and was shunned for a year. ( I lived in a very small town in AZ ) Over a year later, 2 elders showed up at my door and invited me to a disciplinary meeting at which they planned to disfellowship me. I told them to do whatever they felt they had to do!
To fade: Move far away and don't let them know where you live. When I move 8 hours away and tried fading, my mother told the elders my new address......uggghhh.....
She meant well. A brainwashed cult member with the best of intentions....just as I was for most of my life. I myself shunned people I loved--and I hated it and it felt wrong, but I was indoctrinated since birth to obey without questioning and I was fully prepared to die for my faith. The dangers of fundamentalist religions is very real and deep. I am very lucky to have awoken--and it was in part because the eldesr wouldn't let me fade. I am grateful every day to live a real life Now, to have the opportunity to heal and truly enjoy life.
Abigail Parker I moved away. I had an unlisted phone number. They still called me. I asked him how he got my number. He refused to tell me. So I told him to never make that same mistake again. Never call me for any reason. I asked him if he understood what I was telling him. He said that he did and he never called me again.
That really hit me when Vincent said "You don't get to leave this cult with your dignity. So whatever you do you're going to lose." I've been thinking long and hard about what to do with my situation, and I've just come to the conclusion that if I lose my family, then I do. I need to live my life, it is their loss.
I tried that. My mom had the audacity to tell me i was dead to her. Its worse when you know....that they dont care if you die. I had an elder tell me if i was in the hospital and died from not having a blood transfusion i wouldnt even be given a witness funeral. These men beat women down so bad. I felt my heart break ive known this man all my life.
I see this comment is 4yrs old..How did this workout? Newly awake here and going back and forth on faking it with family and fading or just turning in my letter. I can't see myself ever returning to a Kingdom Hall unless it was for a wedding or funeral (that I likely wouldn't be invited to anyway)
I was born into JW. From the time of birth, I was groomed to be one of JWs. My father was is an elder. I Went through all the pain of not fitting into society. About 28 years ago I gave my letter of disassociation and my parents shunned me but would accept my calls, though whining that I didn't call enough and try to talk me to coming back to the JWs. Once the assembly presentation was made to shun even your family members. I then took it into my heart to disfellowship them. My parents are dead to me. Their choice of treating me as they do will never punish me back to the JWs or blackmail me back. I'm an only child and I'm used to being alone. It's stupid to try these antics on me.
Vanora Moon - I'm so glad you're surviving this admirably. Consider, though, you may have to take care of them one day. Their so-called JW brothers won't be there then, when they get old. The right thing would be to take care of them, but no way in h*ll should you be disrespected by any visiting JWs, in your own home. They would not come to visit my parents and then shun me. What will happen then is, they will start shunning your parents.
I can entirely relate to Jill's experience and I so agree. I was inactive for 8 years because I wanted to have a normal, peaceful life--I was not "sinning", I purposely refrained from hanging Xmas lights on my porch (knowing that would get me DFd even without a Judicial Committee) questioning doctrines and certainly not "apostate" in any way--but the elders not allowing me to fade----but their stalking me relentlessly actually was the impetus for my investigating the reality and history of WTS / JWs. This lead me to your RU-vid channel, Ex-JW Recovery 3 FB group and CoC = I awoke.
Have always been grateful that I was never baptized, my parent were inactive throughout my youth. Unfortunately, I still suffered the brainwashing of the JW cult. Dad recently became active after the death of my mother and remarriage to a pioneer. I get shamed for not being a JW but not shunned. My heart goes out to all of you being shunned including my dad’s wife’s son’s family (haven’t really excepted her into the family if you can’t tell) who she will have nothing to do with.
I relate to this video very much so. I faded 17 years ago and a month and a half ago my mom told me she would no longer be talking to me. I am deeply hurt by this, but also feel some relief that I won't constantly by told I will die at Armageddon as well as it being my fault that my husband and 2 children will die too.
Loved this, and for me it's been 12 years with no knock on the door. In fact it's been a long time since any of them have worked my street! I'm in the process of moving so only my kids and family will know where I am moving to.
jeff mcdonald that almost just as bad imo. It just ruins the meaning of the word ‘truth’; if someone can have their own truth, then truth just can’t be objective. That just makes it hard to have conversations about defining true and worse for everyone
dave lewis...Every One is entitled to their Own 'Opinion' of Truth ... That doesn't make it Truth...I Believe the statement 'Your Truth' implies Your 'opinion' of Truth
jeff mcdonald that’s all well and good, and I get where you are coming from... BUT, opinions are irrelevant when it comes to the truth; if something is objectively verifiable then opinions on whether it’s ‘true’ or not are worthless. If people want to use the word ‘truth’ in that way, then fine, but it undermines the value of the term imo
How about a series in which you recount the anonymous stories of those who are 'awake' but still stuck in situ? Because that's the other side of this tale, isn't it?
I'm in a "fading" state now since the May 2017 convention and waking up more by the day. I'm text "UnWitnessing" to some of the "friends" who've contacted me in "concern" of not making meetings and not being out in service. I told one 69-y.o. Sister why would I go out in field service to bring people into an organization that establishes and clings to policies that protects pedophiles, child abusers, rapists and domestic abusers by the tens of thousands yet they send us out to preach that JW's are supposedly ascribing to the highest standards of morality.🤔 Ridiculous! I had it out with the elder of my "field service" group two weeks ago when he called to badger me about "how they can help me get back to meetings and service". So I explained to him about the pervasive and systemic nature of the JW pedophilia problem and he got defensive right away stating "we're trained to keep the congregation clean and enforce that". I told him about the Police and CPS not being contacted upon allegations or incidents of child abuse and I cited complying with the authorities and Caesar from Scriptures at Romans 13:1-14, Matthew 22:15-21 and Titus 3:1. Well this elder again got pissed at me yelling "ARE YOU TRYING TO COUNSEL ME!? You have no authorization to do so!". I tried calming him down explaining that we're having a discussion based on what he called about regarding his "concerns" about me not being at meetings. Lastly I brought up seeing the "Shepherd The Flock" book leaked online as well as the recent Elders Kingdom Ministry Training School where they are deleting pioneers after psychoanalytically micromanaging them down to anal retentiveness. The elder accused me of "getting it off an Apostate sight". I said it's being put out by someone ACTIVE INSIDE the organization from Warwick, Wallkill, Patterson or Pennsylvania to be even leaked out in the first place. He tried to shut me down by forcing a meeting with another elder, I told him no for now as I need to control my schedule and my time without committing to a meeting I cannot make. He finished by whipping out PHILIPPIANS 4:8 and before I could break down how the org and GB do not themselves live up to those qualities that he was trying to point the finger at me with this scripture we disconnected. So far I haven't heard back from him yet. I could post copies of my UnWitnessing texts I've sent out here but it would take too long. Stay Strong & all the best! Dave in Wisconsin, USA via Chicago
SAME thing i said to the sister who kept trying to get me out in service when i first began to quit/fade - What am I inviting people TO?! So they can be mistreated same as me? Then, when i began to watch xjw vids and Silent Lambs, I was horrified to be included in the membership of WT org.
Marina Payton "But that's just 'imperfection"' was probably her reply. Two of the Elders said exactly that when I first saw the pervasiveness of this last year. It's an example of obfuscation and demonstration of the "ostrich syndrome"! Take care Marina & Be Strong & Brave Dave in Wisconsin
This area needs to be covered, the WT lies in the ARC needs to be exposed as this has affected so many of the ex-JW community myself included, causing untold amounts of pain and suffering. I had a mental break after the 2016 convention when my family formally gave me notice of shunning until I 'returned', after 13 years of fading. my life was turned upside down when I finally allowed myself to research the WT for the first time since quitting to find a loophole against the shunning - instead I landed on the John Cedars channel and went down a crazy rabbit hole! I ended up losing my job over it as well as my mind and its been really hard to rebuild my life.
Last two or three years, they tried to tell us that upon disfellowshipment, it becomes between the individual and Jehovah-sounds nice and cozy but with the depression, alienation, and suicide, it does not sound as if there is a "healing" and bandaging of wounds.
Thanks for all your hard work! You have help me so much with your videos and info, I just want to say Thank You. P.S. it’s been 7 years since my Family Shun Me. But God has blessed me with a Beautiful Wife and 2 Beautiful Daughters! One day I would like to share my experience with you and others.
Oh I love this guy, so glad I wasn’t the only one who spoke to the Dfd as well! I used to do secret waves on toilet trips to the ones sat at the back. It always seemed too mean. I asked my mum once “if we want them back, shouldn’t we be nicer?” She agreed. Sad she no longer speaks to my brother
Cameron Reekie Vincent always comes over as such a nice person. It was so moving when he let us know that it was 'happening' and losing his family. 😢 😢
JW Suicides I know, and like Lloyd says the motivation is spite. Even though I never got baptized the elders have still acted like they are my boss. I’ve had them turning up telling me all sorts, demanding I do or don’t do Sth in my own house whilst they are there. Turning up on field service and telling me to get the kettle on then. I left twenty years ago. There is one way to stop it though, chuck a mental at the elders, keep them in the door for over an hour ( in the cold) until they need to wee so bad, then tell them your an apostate. It works I am now a do not call...so proud of that lol!🤪
Cameron Reekie You handled them!! You can see it on the carts when they think they can tell people what to do and have the police at their beck and call for nothing.
JW Suicides much like abort 67 another bunch of so called Christians. Coming to my wee island to force their beliefs on us. Abortion will be legalized here, no matter how many fake stories and images they share. Do you know one lady approached them to say she had been raped, and had a termination so they called her a murderer, and had this poor lady in tears. So a man stood in front of the vile fake images as they were displayed near his shop and the police threatened him with arrest. How dare ‘christians’ waste police time like this, if they weren’t in people’s faces with their views none of them would need protection . But yeah the system and the world, hate the jws and Christianity, and only god protects his people. Yet another thing they have backwards!!🤬😡 x
I also hope this becomes a series. There are so many faders out there with their own "me too" stories that don't do videos but want to share their experiences..
Much love love love to all of you, Jill, Vince, Lloyd for this touching conversation. And how wild Jumping Geoff Jackson's enormous lies totally showed up WT's hypocrisy, and you were glued to the proceedings - I was right there with you on that!♥
Everyone: Here's an example of one of my Text UnWitnesses during my fade I copy/pasted from 11/5/2017 after I received a call from this older "concerned brother" trying to get me back in service and to come to meetings. If it helps, use it: "Hi Dirk, Sorry I missed your call but I did get your message. I appreciate your inquiry. As you're probably aware as an only child I'm in a position where I have to watch my aging 87-y.o. Father battling dementia/Alzheimer's along with other challenges that come with ravages of older age unfortunately as I have the personal, moral and scriptural responsibility to "honor my Father". I'm not going to just "dump him in a nursing home" as some have insinuated I do not just give up what little funds are left to a corrupt conglomerate in the business of "Aging Care". In due time that may be circumstantially necessary if his longevity continues but it's not time just yet. So that takes up quite a bit of my time. I will return to meetings if and when I choose and decide to do so and when I am ready to do so. The friends here have been fine. There are significant issues I have problems with the Organization that calls into serious question their true harmony in complying with Bible standards and how people in the flock have been treated in an organization that, quite frankly, is EXTREMELY Judgmental with "leaders" that have low educational standards bashing and castigating those with an education trying to dictate everybody's lives to the T. We saw that example earlier this year when the group of us got together for a Watchtower study with more "modifications". Endless talk about "the End", acting at the convention parts like 1975 and this "generation" never happened, flip-flops on blood doctrine, extreme/severe shunning of so-called "disfellowshipped" ones and the most major issue that compromises all moral integrity, credibility and reputability being the global JW Pedophilia issue. It's one thing if it was a few cases but tens of thousands of cases in the US & North America alone of an extreme, severe perversion. I've gotten an opportunity to know victims of the "Two witness" rule, victims amongst JW's of both pedophilia and domestic violence. So this is but a tip of the iceberg. A lot of insights from what REALLY goes on at Bethel in the conduct & treatment department, not to mention a number being laid off thrown out on the street after years of Bethel service. I'm doing fine and well, feeling pretty good, exercising more, but all-in-all healthy leading a clean, simple life trying to start rebuilding after my own personal & financial devastation. Take care & God's Blessings in Jesus name to you & your family!" Best, Dave
Excellent video with awesome guests! I think it's great you're starting a series about fading, a timely subject that affects alot of JW's. Interview style with this shines a brighter light on the varying manipulation tactics Watchtower uses.
OMG it’s a big break not to go three or two times a week to a boring meeting, pretending to have the so call truth struggling to keep up what a break, fantastic.
Magalie Augustin or waking up early to go out in field service on Saturday, then the meeting on Sunday followed by hospitality for the speaker or more field service, and doing school parts, personal study, cleaning the hall, family worship, then back to work M-F for your tiring secular job after your fake weekend.
Good for you having your four kids. So many people don't have kids because the "new system" was ever so soon. Then they realize that new system is not coming, but then it's too late to have kids.
Great points Lloyd about not coming back and the blackmail. So disgusting that this religion turns family away from each other. It's barbaric and not love.
I faded about 2 years ago and started to get visits from the elders. They wanted me to go to a judicial and kept pestering us as a family....I eventually called the police and reported them for harassing me. The police were really supportive and called them for me and I haven't heard from them since. I had a text message Xmas time from a sister to say she'd be reporting me for my Xmas tree but still haven't heard anything!! So I'm guessing if you call the police they have to back off. My mum is still in and no-one has spoken to her about it. My life is so much more peaceful and guilt free.
I've been faded about 6 years now, at first the elders stalked me at work and at home, but they haven't been around in a grew years now. When they disfellowship you, do they still send a letter telling you so? I heard they saw my chirstmas lights, but I've never heard anything. Is any adult convert, so I don't have any blood family in the cult, but my in-laws are. They've moved to another state and I only get the occasional text or call from them, usually when they want my son to chi to the memorial.
Thanks for this video! I can very much relate to you both and can completely understand what you say about “turning off your heart” towards family that shuns us.
I was fortunate enough to have a mother that cared more about her children than the cult to which she belonged. Myself and all of my siblings were disfellowshipped, and my mother refused to cut ties with us. She lost all her privledges in the congregation (which didn't amount to much since she's a woman), and some of her long-time friends won't speak to her because she hasn't cut ties. I just wish she would come to her senses and leave that awful organization.
"There is no way to leave this cult with dignity" But, In Matthew, Jesus says that church members should forgive each other “seventy times seven times” (18:22) Case closed. It never happens with JWs
Dont be scared live your life. They have no power over you and remember you are good humans. These people are twisted. It took me two years to realize i would be ok and have courage.
Thank you for the video! I am trying to fade right now. But I think my hand was to heavy in the dimmer switch..... The elders are trying to contact me. We had a meeting some weeks ago, entitle of "shepherd visit" (not sure if that is the correct expression in English). Thank you again, for the 3 of you!
Elders kept hounding me. Members of the congregation kept hounding me. I stopped taking their visits, and phone calls. Then came the voicemail messages and text messages from the elders. I decided to respond back to the text message and voicemail messages stating if you do not stop reaching out to me I will consider this harassment and I will contact the police. One year later I get a text message and a voicemail message from the Elder wanting to see if I had changed my mind again I said let this be the last time you contact me or I will contact the police and then I changed my phone number it has now been three years and they have not tried to contact me. I chose to shun all of the Jehovah's Witnesses in my life except for my immediate family, they made the choice to shun me. By then I was pretty much prepared and the pain was very little.
Hi Lloyd, thank you once again for bringing this very real but extremely unfair situation for EX JW in light. My kids and I have been fading now for over a year and we just celebrated our very first christmas in 2017, and I must add it felt fantastic to have this festivity for the first time with the whole world!! But it came at a cost of hiding and looking over our shoulder the entire time shopping for the christmas tree, decorations or cards. It was awful to know that these people have so much power over us!! We had lights all throughout the back, but nothing that you can see at the front!! My family do not live in the same country, but we had to be aware of what the kids can and can't put on their social media and was extremely frustrating for them that they can't just be normal. But we are at least one step forward...and can enjoy things that we couldn't before, even with some restriction. My parents are getting older now and we hope to stay un-disfellowshiped for as long as they are alive. As you all say we have to have our journey on how we would like to do the exit. I was disfellowshipped before and I had to loose all dignity by grovelling to be re-instated just so I can fade for the sake of maintaining relationship with family. I would go through this for my parents sake.
Born and raised. Baptized at 15 (peer pressure) pioneered. After I came off the list, something just didn't seem right. But still I continued for another 20 years. I tried moving away from everyone and my sister gave the elders my new address! Just leave me alone. I love Jehovah, I don't love this unloving organization! I don't want my children indoctrinated, I want them to choose who they will serve!
Watchtower has made it so that there is no graceful way out. They're going to make those leaving pay a price for their apostasy. Jill, I'd love to have a discussion with you. It sounds like your family were associated with Watchtower when the membership was comprised of Bible Students. Before I left the Bible Students in 2004 I was a 4th generation Bible Student, I have grandparents and great grandparents both on my mother's and father's side who joined the Bible Students even before Watchtower left Allegheny PA. Its quite possible, depending on where our ancestor's lived, that they knew each other, or met at conventions. Back in Russell's day the Bible Students were not a large movement and many knew each other. I once went to a Bible Student's home in Buffalo years ago who showed my wife and me an old Daily Heavenly Manna Book with Ida Eisenhower's name signed in it. Eisenhower remained with Watchtower until her death in the 1930s. My family split from Watchtower and joined the Bible Students who became disenfranchised from Watchtower. Specifically my family joined the Dawn Bible Students. It would be interesting to dialogue to see if we knew common names. Vincent, if I heard you correctly, you've had heart problems. I had a serious heart attack and heart surgery a little more than a year ago. I remember seeing a youtube you posted from the hospital. I wrote to you then (under a different name...I changed youtube names because of a bad experience) to wish you well. My doc tells me to avoid emotional distress as much as possible. I avoid watching television news, especially political news about Trump. I'm sorry to hear of the recent circumstances with your family. It is for these reasons why Watchtower has to be stopped. I just bought the audio version of Christopher Hitchens' God is Not Great, read by Hitchens himself. He expresses himself so beautifully. One point he asserts repeatedly is that Religion Poisons Everything. Poisons all have their own degree of toxicity (a measure called lethal dose...I deal with this stuff in my line of work) and Watchtower is one of the most toxic of all religions.
TruthSeekerAtheist Anonymous - Beautiful post. The verdict on God for me is inconclusive. I view him as "inactive," because I have doubts about his nature and doubts about the hubris of scientists on certain matters. Anyway, science and philosophy proffer enough for me to formulate questions. Deep in my heart, this religion is just wrong. I call myself a humanists. So, I would have to accept humiliation to go back to something I simply no longer believe in "namely the bible." My thinking is rather similar to the gentlemen you're speaking to here. I hope the two of you can connect and then tell us your story, where your histories overlap (if they do). That would be so exciting.
I haven't been to a meeting in over a year and so far, none of the elders have been to my house. None of my family members are JWs (my younger sister left many years ago). I saw a lot of things that were not right. I had problems with the thought of being chaperoned (I'm 60 years old!) and there's this one person who thinks she's always right and trying to tell you where to shop, where to get your hair done and telling you 'Well, this works for me!" I hate that comment. And she wants so much to come to my home and I tell her that I don't want visitors. I live in one state and drive into another state for work. I am tired when I get home and I don't want no visitors. The weekends are for me. I have some health issues and I don't want to be bothered.
I think it's easier to get away with fading if you don't have family inside the cult, it's especially useful to move to another area or city. But if you have JW family members like I do then you have to be very careful: they can rat you out at any time for talking apostate to them, smoking, having a relationship without being married, celebrating birthdays or Christmas... and the list goes on. In a way you have to lead a double life, hiding all those things for your JW family members, if you don't want them to shun your and report you to the elders, while they can try to witness to you all they want, which is really unfair! I so hate it when they are talking about their believes and call it "THE TRUTH", even when they know it's not the truth for me at all! I enjoyed this video btw, it's very important to show the world how this organization treats people who simply want to walk away and are not allowed.
I thought, once you hand any religion a Letter of Cancellation of Membership (however you want to entitle it) directly to them, in person, AND YOU WALK OUT...DON'T SAY ANOTHER WORD.....NO DISCUSSION NEEDS TO OCCUR, and if they then contact you in any way, you can press legal charges. They are violating your Constitutional rights here in America ! Tell them to: Bugger off....as my friends in England say it. Ha ! THE BUGGER OFF LETTER !
Well, i did not have family inside , i faded for almost 2 years, kept to myself but stayed in touch with one JW. She found out i had a boyfriend, called the local elders and then i was DF after 2 telephonecalls with them.They said they had to act as i was still in touch with a JW. MY FRIEND LIVE IN AUSTRALIA AND I LIVE IN EUROPE !!!! I asked them to Df me because i do no longer practice disfellowshipping. Actually it has made it easier to move on with my new life. No more double life.
Bonnie Zieman mentioned in her memoir the 'Christmas celebration' event as a crucial moment in being tracked by their former congregation elders. Jackson wasn't aware of procedure? Elder and GB member doesn't know what the ORG does.......!?
I still get group chat messages from elders to turn in territory information and when meetings are canceled despite me being inactive for two years now. Seeing this video I can prepare myself mentally if in case I meet this same scenario
Could someone help me out here? Why hasn't any of this behavior gone to the supreme court? I don't understand how this is allowable under the first amendment.
The U.S. government stays out of religions. Unless a class action law suit is filed, and the incidents of the crime(s) didn't occur too long ago (usually 7 years ago is too late....statute of limitations), the U.S. government isn't going to bother. Stalking laws may apply.
Nancy Nightingale well, if I recall, the supreme court ruled in favor of jw preaching on at least a few occasions, and they had taken the charitable status away from Scientology back in the day for several years. And jw's are violating the first amendment by not allowing people to choose another religion freely (without shunning punishment by family). I think it can be done.
The Watchtower Society did a narcissistic brilliant move in 1935 by adopting the name Jehovah's Witnesses. That move allowed for members to emotionally blackmail anyone who attempts to leave by saying they left God when they choose to leave their man made organization. Akin to the brilliance of Hitler in controlling the masses.
10:44 - I will always remember this time when I was fighting against depression and had missed two weeks worth of meetings. So I just pushed myself and dragged my ass to the next meeting thinking that it would make me feel better. I got in a bit late and one of my ‘friends’, who was both an elder and regular pioneer, was giving the first part in the ministerial school. After he finishes and comes down the platform, he approaches me to say something to my ear. I honestly thought he was going to say something encouraging like ‘I’m glad to see you’ or anything like that. What he said was: ‘I see you already gave yourself to Satan’, and kept walking. It was devastating to me at that point. Here I am trying to make an effort to better my spirituality and those in charge of helping me were just making it worse.
Unbelievable the lengths they will go to just to say you didn't leave, we discarded you. That's what this is really about ,because when you leave you challenge their faith . They are so insecure , a cult of the first order.
They haunt my tiny channel of less than 300 subs, which I don't even tend to for weeks at a time. (It's a completed project called The Blinding Light, so I don't make more videos for it). They call me names, insult my appearance, tell me I'm crazy and one just insisted that I know it's the truth. They never answer my question, What do you want from me? Why are you here? I don't approach them, visit their sites, protest at K.Halls or anything. Why do they stalk us on YT? They say we're obssessed with them because we have this online community, but they aren't even supposed to turn up here, but without fail, look long enough and you find them pouncing.
Christmas lights in December could also be used for *Hanukkah (feast of dedication John 10:22-23) also see Maccabees 4:52-56. Maccabees not found in the new world translation however it is a historical book about the Jewish people before the time of Christ. During the feast of dedication the Jewish people would light up the homes for eight days as a remembrance for the time they over through the Greeks who made a mess out of their temple. As for Gentiles who accept Christ (Messiah) become graphed into Israel Romans 11:13-23. Historian Flavius Josephus also mentions feast of dedications in his writings. Sad that someone would be disfellowshipped over the lighting of their home. *Hanukkah means dedication in Hebrew.
You learn something new everyday. I love taking in as much knowledge as I can and I’m a nerdy history buff so truly thank you for this knowledge drop!!
Best way to fade is to swap congregations, keep a low profile go to the kh very occasionally. Don't accept invitations to socialise so that your presence is hardly noticed be boring to talk to so that they end up not noticing if you are absent or present. I have seen this tactic before and it works. Also if you are officially moved then as far as your elders are concerned your in someone else's radar. Hence out of sight out of mind. This is not cast iron but it has worked for some.
I've seen lots of people do that and eventually people from different congregations talk especially at circuit and district assemblies. All it takes is one person asking someone in your "new" congregation how you are doing and the game is over.
I moved from ohio to ga. Of course i bumped into a sister from my hall.yes she shunned. I was so sick of it. I moved states away. I remenber trying to switch halls and ended up running right inti a sister from my old hall. I couldnt switch halls or run.
This video is the very reason I didn't try to fade out. It has been longer since I left the group than I spent in by almost a factor of two (was brought in by my dad's family at 11, left at 18, 32 now) but I blew the roof off the place to almost an absurd degree. Sent a letter to every elder and most of the members, laying out explicitly how the group had wronged me and exactly how much any person who would bother to shun me for leaving could go to hell. I think I also included the line "if God is with the Jehovah's Witnesses, sign me up with the Devil." in the letter too. I was a wounded gay teenager doing the right thing for me for the first time in my life, but I knew I wouldn't have any dignity either way. So I burned the entire thing down and don't regret it one bit.
I just got a letter in the mail yesterday from the “elders” in my former congregation after not hearing from them in about a year and a half. And I received the letter the day of the judicial committee which I couldn’t go to because I was working. So I plan on writing them and going out on my own terms not theirs.
very good video. nice insight into their stories. im just 12 months into my full fade. i have a family member who left around same time who said screw it im celebrating christmas next year, im currently making videos, while quietly fading. this video kind of confirmed what i knew, that one day i will be invited to my very own kangaroo court. even years from now. either way disfellowshipped or faded, im still on their books and they still would want to know where i live and would want to visit at some point. im just not playing by their rules, unless of course i can use them against them. ( eg elders book says, after years, accepting a visit by two elders shows you recognise their authority! so no visit thanks)
Hey Lloyd I have a question for you. I faded and was told that after you have been inactive for 10 years they no longer consider you a witness. They as in the elders. Have you heard that before? We had a friend who had been inactive for 10+ years beg the elders to disfellowship him (I won’t go into the whole story) and they told him that he was no longer considered a witness because after 10 years of inactivity they no longer keep a record of you and so they didn’t need to disfellowship him. 😳. Can you look into that for those trying to fade please. I think if that is true it may help some people keep their family contact.
That's not true, I'm afraid. There are special instructions for dealing with those who haven't associated with the congregation for many years, but bottom line: your dedication is permanent, and if they discover that you are doing something you shouldn't be doing, or saying something you shouldn't be saying, your elders can come for you even many years later.
Not true! I left the organization July 2006 and was disfellowshipped July 2016 exactly 10 yrs later, my husband left 10 years before me. They disfellowshipped us without our knowledge, no one judicial meeting of which I would have refused to attend anyway. My son called myself and my husband to inform us. Since our disfellowshipping my son is waking up. I’m so happy my prayers are being answered
I dug this video out because it’s so on point for me right now. I’ve chosen to fade, am enjoying it for now but no doubt they’ll catch up with me at some point.
Perfect timing . . . finding this video. Just two days ago, my sister finally got around to calling me an apostate, though I left in 2012. (At that point, they always think people will be re-activated, but I had been winding down, didn't know the strategic idea of fading). Nevertheless, I did it. My sister and I had a strained relationship already (without the org, due to her abrasiveness toward me) and my mom had cut me off in about 2015. Still, reading the word apostate on my phone hit me harder than I anticipated because I have lost my affection for her. So the sting of it surprised me. Anyway, she celebrates Christmas and is registered to vote. Hahahaha.
I can really relate to this interview. But the difference is that I put up the Christmas lights on purpose because I was really done with the organization. I was inactive but I wasn't going to sneak around to do things. So three elders showed up in about 3 days after putting up the lights. I told them how I felt and that was that.
Fantastic interviews! When I faded I didn’t get much interest from anyone in the congregation, except a yearly text from an elder. When my wife left, her phone blew up with calls and texts. One elder even called her multiple times during work hours. She never picked up and ended up blocking his number. We have since moved from our neighborhood (not because of them), so they probably won’t find us. We think it’s pointless to meet with, since they are not there to listen with an open mind or heart. They just was to listen and obey.
It’s a classic cult move. Scientology is famous for doing this. You leave, you’re immediately declared a suppressive person (enemy of the church) and family still in Scientology are ordered to cease contact. Then comes the harassment. They will do anything to ruin the lives and silence critics and SPs
They tell your family to shun you however, if your family falls on serious hard times, those same elders won’t help them. In fact they would refer them to seek financial help from the person they shunned.
Jan. 29, 2018, Monday, 6:16pm, San Diego, CA: Lloyd, are you ever coming to San Diego? Please discuss with Jonathan Streeter and Chris Meredith regarding the Tres Amigos having a presentation here in San Diego about destructive religions (....I'm trying not to use the word "cult" so people will attend). You three have so much great information.....as well as John Dehlin (exMormon, lives in Utah) would be a great #4 panelist. I would love to see a TV show here in the U.S.A. on these religions and how emotionally damaging they are....much like Leah Remini's program. The curtain needs to be pulled away and the truth revealed. If you ever come to a point in your life where living in Croatia is no longer needed/wanted, COME TO SAN DIEGO ! I want you and your wife/daughter as my neighbors ! ! ! You have THE best character. Your wife is very lucky. Tell her I said so ! Ha !
Shunning is the greatest SIN a cult can perpetrate on a person. See, when a family member really dies, you really can't talk to them anymore, and you wish --- just one more time --- that you could do so, just to say what might not have been said, to say goodbye, and to just see them. Right? But shunning negates that even in LIFE!!! And, as Vincent notes, if you are really seriously ill, or if you are in need, the shunning prevents you from being with loved ones when it's important. And this shunning is forced on those who are still brainwashed, so they comply so that they can "go to heaven" or have the chance for "super-deluxe heaven". ARRRGGHH!!!! Disfellowshipping is the hostage-taking of family members that prevents people from being normal by forcing them to stay IN. By that, it's a serious crime.
Stupid me, I tried to fade while living in my mother’s house. I was an idiot. She had the elders over there to harass me every single week. LOL I thought that if I just stopped going, eventually they would have to leave me alone. nope..
Vincent Deporter that was all a long time ago, but you’re absolutely right. It’s very hard. That’s why I think it’s so important to do videos like this, so new XJWs can see that they can survive and even find happiness. 🤓
13:21 - For those who are not aware about the Jehovah’s Witness, in this organization you will find all sorts of clicks within the congregations. And she is telling the 100% truth about being treated badly. In every congregation I’ve been in, there is always the few marked ones that are treated differently from the others. The ones that everyone looks down too. Sadly, I’ve been on both ends of the stick. If anyone that I treated poorly stumbles upon this comment, and I have not yet reached out to you to apologize personally, I want to let you know that I am really sorry for the way I treated you.
Hello sir. Love your videos and your approach. I'd love to have a session with you, interview etc. based on the JW's but would like to do it, cutting out all the crap of what seems to accumulate around the witnesses, but just have a raw conversation based on factual evidence on how it was growing up as a JW. The truth behind it all and maybe shed some light on some of the films that have been made in the past and recent past too. cheers bro
What's the point of blackmailing you into returning beside benefiting the organization? Most are only returning for contact with their family. So you're investing time and energy into something you don't believe and at the end God will read your heart and kill you anyway. Good grief just live and enjoy your passions and return love of those that love you and deserve your love.
When u fade and you don't want it get interrupted you always have to low profile. I have successfully faded for 30 years. I still have to keep a low profile. Always keep an eye on your Facebook page. If a photo shows up on your Facebook page of you at a Christmas party take it down right away. To keep your fade from getting interrupted takes constant work. If you do you tube videos don't show real face and change your voice.
I was tired of being afraid. I decided to write a letter of disassociation. This was a month ago .My daughter wanted me to fade out. I told her i was done when she told me the elders wanted to talk to me. I havent seen no elder yet. But of course i never saw them when i was inactive either. So far my daughter is talking to me.
Hi again Lloyd, I will soon be visiting my Jw family overseas, inc my parents. Do you think it is wise to show them Jeffrey's testimony on you tube? I don't know how I am going to approach the subjects about all of us not going to the meeting anymore and so on. The plan is to say it that the kids (who are not baptised 19,17,14) have found out about the child abuse situation and been turned off the religion and I will say that i have been traumatised after dis.f, so I couldn't go either. What do you think? Jill you seem like such a wonderful person, and wish you and your family all the best. If you read my question to Lloyd, and you like to give me advise, i would appreciate it too. Vincent, I totally understand about the switch-off button. I would do the same if it would happen to me now because of my new beliefs. No one can change who they are because they are blackmailed!!
The Watchtower presents: "The Struggle Against Satan and the Threat of Critical Thinking." Cost of Admission: your cerebral cortex. I wish my mother and sister would shun me so I wouldn't have to listen to them tell me over the phone how they pray for me every day and offer up masses for my soul. It's embarrassing.
As the numbers of Jehovah’s Witnesses decrease they will start counting everyone who’s been baptized as part of those numbers just to keep the others who are faithful to them and loyal to them not think it’s going down the tubes you watch and see
I heard there are areas in the US where elders might follow an inactive Witness. It seems to happen in more religiously conservative parts of the country. In bible belt areas of the US treatment of women as in subjection is even more pronounced.
Troy Barnes - I did call in to the Thinking Atheist a few years ago. Seth's podcast is the reason my husband and I realized we were atheist. It was well after my fade though. We were inactive from 2000-2005, then df'd in 2005.
i knew i recognized your voice. and your story. lol. I just woke up, and found Seth's podcast not to long ago. Ive been going thru his older episodes and found the jw episode
Thank you. BTW a picture by a Christmas tree with my now wife, was the reason i first got a text from a "friend" asking me "so you are celebrating holidays now? no judging, just asking" lmao
I wonder how JW's would answer you if you simply ask them am I going to die if I don't become one of Jehovah's Witnesses ?I saw that on a video. How would they answer ?
don't know where you live but I just looked up " 3 cat tie and dye shirt " on google aand found them , walmart.com .. Catopia Tie Dye Kitty Cat Graphic T-Shirt Large
So Jeffy practicing some advanced theocratic war strategy there? Does anyone believe that a local body of elders knows more than a GB member what constitutes a disfellowshipping offense?
Dang got an idea how bout t-shirts highliting false prophecy, the abuse and other lies and then attending meetings without disrupting the meeting just chilling reading the bible
