FAKE OR FORTUNE S011E04 ARSHILE GORKY 

Please keep Fake or Fortune rolling! It's so difficult to find intelligent and stimulating programmes, and this has now become one of my favourites. 🤩

I`m surprised they didn`t compare the white paint on this canvas to the white paint on the other accepted Gorky paintings to see if he also used house paint on them to cover them up. If it`s the same, then this painting was his intention, to be covered in white, if not, then he was just covering this up to start over.

Throughout this series, one thing IMO is immediately apparent - the legitimacy of these so-called art committees -- It is they that should stand the test of Fake or Fortune

There’s an important precedent described in Smithsonian Magazine, October 28, 2021 in which Gorky’s daughter Maro Spender discovered a corner of Gorky’s “The Limit” (1947) peeling off to reveal a long-lost early 1940’s oil painting Untitled (Virginia Summer) beneath. Despite the fact that Gorky himself had covered it up, in this case the overlying work was removed and the underlying painting accepted into the Gorky canon. Sound familiar?

As an art historian from Armenia, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to all of the art experts, historians, and staff who have contributed to this exceptional art series. Your tireless efforts and expertise are profoundly impacting the art world. Your dedication to the preservation, study, and promotion of art is an inspiration to us all. Thank you for your hard work and for sharing your knowledge and passion with the world.

In the beginning they analyzed the top white layer and said it was a type of typical household paint with typical artist used paints underneath it. Am I the only one thinking that Gorky would NOT have used typical household paint IF HE MEANT for it to be part of the composition????

I refuse to believe Gorky's widow "made a mistake" wanting the white paint removed. After so many years of be surrounding by his art? Bullshit. No way that was the finished product. More than likely he was going to reuse the canvas again.

I cannot imagine that a painting which simultaneously contains an important piece from both the very beginning and the very ending of the artist's body of work, would not be found valuable by somebody out there, regardless of what the Gorky Foundation says about it. I love that she tore up their letter and decided to move forward with the restoration work as started. Good for her.

Thank you so much for sharing! This is my all-time favorite show, and here in the U.S. we cannot get it

Given Gorky's mental state dealing with his wife's affair, his terminal cancer diagnosis, his broken neck and the studio fire, it is conceivable that the white paint represents deliberate sabotage to deprive his wife of a valuable asset prior to his suicide. The episode should have looked at the stormy marriage for possible insight into Gorky's actions.

Anyone who actually paints knows reusing canvases is commonplace. And it’s not hard to see that he was in the process of covering up a previous work to start something new… however… he didn’t end up starting anything new, so if it comes down to a partially covered work and the actual work, then restore the work underneath. The family is pissed they don’t have the painting and are being petulant about it.

So the fact is that what was done can not be undone. The white layer had already been partially removed which IF the painting covered in white was an intentional artist expression makes THAT damaged but the work underneath COULD be salvaged. Wouldn’t it be better to have a previous Gorky conserved rather than none at all???

I'm struggling to figure out why sketches and studies are deemed to be valid, valuable, and collectible, and this canvas would not. Surely, if the removal of the white paint reveals a study of the Betrothal works by Gorky, it would be collectable as a study. I wish the episode had explicitly discussed the difference between confirming this canvas as a "valid work" supported by an artist's foundation, and the value and collectibility of incomplete works and studies known to be by that same artist.

In my opinion, knowing depression and the hurdles of life, pain, and change, this painting before the white being removed could have been one of the last he ever touched. It could have been his intention to cover up previous phases of his work/life and in the end white it out completely. Sadly, possibly mirrored by him ending his life. Whether intentional or not it’s extremely symbolic of the artist who painted it.

It’s an appalling result by the Gorky Foundation to not accept the painting.. as is.! Clearly it’s his work. Clearly it’s from his studio. Whether the white paint over the top was intended by him as a continued work in progress.. or he had planned to cover over it.. it’s still a work by Gorky.! Rather than the foundation take it upon themselves to preserve this historical painting.. show interest and give her some advice or assist her.. they have no shame to not care what happens to it.. thrusting the responsibility back onto the owner. I’m glad she tore up their verdict.

THANK YOU !! I love this show.

Thank you so much. At least your upload doesn't have a big red band at the bottom of the screen, obscuring half of it. Don't think he would have used household paint for a legitimate painting. It's Lizas painting and she should decide anyway.

a follow-up is needed. great episode.

Best part was when the lady tore up the letter from the 'committee', and I use the word loosely. Ugh. What the family members said didn't even make sense! Sour grapes in my opinion. I hope there will be photos of this work uncovered online at some point. Good for Eliza!

Thank you once again for bringing this wonderful show to us.😊

So, a quick question: What legal locus does the “Gorky Foundation” or anyone else for that matter (whether children or grandchildren) have over this? It is private propterty gifted to Elizabeth by Gorky’s widow, and it is therefore for Elizabeth to decide what to do with it. The matter ends there. No one’s expert opinion, much less, approval is necessary. Hypothetically, if Elizabeth wants to burn the painting, she would be well within her rights to do so, since by law, the painting belongs to her.

This is such a great program. With all the drivel out there is such a breath of fresh air to watch this content. I do hope you’ll keep us posted as developments press forward on this work. Thanks!💕🇨🇦👍🏼👏🏼

So if it has zero value as is, then Liza has nothing to lose in removing the white paint. Then she should ask the foundation if they want her to destroy the 1940s picture to get back to the original 1920s painting in the picture. I predict the restoration of the 1940s painting would be accepted and it could bw displayed alongside the photograph & xray to explain that it's 2 original paintings on one canvas.

Yet it is a Gorky.....underneath the layers is a lost Gorky and above that is yet another so "intention" remains at play and how the market may or may not treat it once it is cleaned. The market loves controversy just look at the "shredded Banksy"

i am surprised that they did not talk about Gorky during the period of 27, 28, 29. He was living in NYC and teaching at the Grand Central School of Art. What was his work like during that period? I have a catalog from the school in 1926-27, and i believe it contains the first reproduction of a work by him. It's a painting he did of a Rodin sculpture.

This is the hardest one yet. How sad and weeks that they did this to her. Good for her ripping the paper up. I hope she keeps going and we get and update.

Seems to me, the foundation’s logic is faulty. If Picasso threw a painting in the bin because he didn’t want it seen, and someone retrieved and kept it, would it not still be a painting by Picasso?

Bravo, Liza! By George, you've got it!! Can it help to tell the Foundation that I had a vision and Ashile Gorky appeared to me and said: remove that white paint! I didn't mean to put it there! Keep going, Liza! I LOVE that she tore their opinion! That's what other owners, rejected by that SNOTTY, pseudo-fartsy Wildenstein Institute in Paris should've done! Damn the TORPEDOES & MAN THE RAMPARTS!!

Since the Gorky Institute found that "the current work in its current condition has been posthumously damaged to the extent that it cannot be considered the work of Arshile Gorky" sounds to me like a release and she may as well continue to remove the white overlayer. What is revealed will then have to stand by itself. That may be enough to change the opinion.

I liked the way the owner tore up the letter at the end......😅👍 From the experts, its a Gorky Jim, but not as we know it.

I am with Eliza, if it has no value now then let's remove the white and see what's underneath..we may learn something from that!!!!

This is such an exciting case! Since only thanks to this very program the foundation had to confirm the existence of two very valuable artworks on this canvas and thanks to Liza's bravery at least the only one that is still possible to retrieve will be uncovered, I believe it will generate huge interest in the art market anyway and make Liza millions (fingers crossed), regardless of foundation's decision to authenticate it or not, so it could really become an exciting precedent in reducing that self-inflated, often ridiculous and damaging authority of these foundations and committees that we have observed so many times on this program. Well done! And well done, girls, with the beautiful vyshyvankas and support to Ukraine!

this is so good - the whole story. Gorky artist was doing some great inward thinking when he covered that work I imagine slowly and thoughtfully until the whole of the canvas was white. Done. He didn't throw it away. So then come along everyone else. The painting died when the original 'conservator' butchered the thing and then didn t even finish the job. I would have it for the metaphor in a heartbeat. The story that the artist made something so sublime that no one understood but- for all the different reasons- couldn t leave it alone. The grand daughter / was right on.

Philip’s diplomatic comment “it could also be part of a man’s body” had me laughing for the rest of the episode whenever the painting was shown. Can not unsee what could be a knob! 😂😂

It's kind of absurd that the foundation would consider it "not by Gorky" simply because it's been damaged. I mean, there are plenty of famous damaged paintings that are still considered by the artist. Francis Bacon, for example, intentionally destroyed many of his paintings with the explicit intention that it not be a part of his oeuvre. Yet, people were able to recover them from the Chelsea dump and go on to sell them as legitimate Bacons. I can absolutely see why an artwork posthumously damaged would be significantly lowered in value due to the damage, but to consider it "not a work by the artist" is simply moronic. It absolutely IS by the artist, it's just that it's been damaged afterward...

Heck, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as is. Too many egos involved in those so-called "experts" where so many seem to be full of massive self-importance. I'm blown away that there can be so many contradictory "expert" opinions. I'll bet those egotists at the Gorki Foundation will be the first in line to purchase that painting when it is restored -- hoping they can get it cheap because they deemed it insignificant.

Thank you 😊 have a great day

merci j'adore cette émission

interesting that 'art' had now reached a stage where simply by looking at it, it is apparently impossible to say whether the image is as the artist intended, or that he decided to 'whack some white house paint over it' in order to reuse the canvas(in this case for the 3rd time). Yet apparently despite this situation, such 'modern art' is still considered to be worth millions of £s. Are some people in the art world simply having a giraffe, while making their own fortunes? Just a thought

I have to say that the abstract style just goes thunk in my head. Realism is my jam. Renoir, Fontaine Latour, Manet, those three make this girl's blood sizzle. However, I hang on every second of this show. I learn so much, its brain food!

My first thought is that if the artist covered whatever is underneath, what gives anyone else the right to go against his artistic wishes?

"erxpressive brush work" ! ! ! ! ! ! n a full out white...straight inner edge where the artist stopped covering it...oh my....

Given it is considered damaged, I would still remove it to see what Gorky did. Given the exposure on this show, I'm sure someone will want it. That damaged Gorky with lady underneath (Woman with Necklace Marquette) is still considered a Gorky so why not do the same as someone else did before.

A canvas covered in white house paint or one with the paint removed - I know which one I'd prefer. Bring on the gel.

I love this show so much!!! lol!

I'm not a visual artist, but a writer. The thought of someone digging up a story I had written over, taking off whatever I had changed or deleted, and displaying it is horrifying. If I whited out my work, it was for a reason. I trust the same was true of Gorky.

The bird motif on Mrs Gorky’s blouse seems to be present in the painting, in that block in the middle of the x-rayed piece ..

Note that, had Fake or Fortune and the painting's owner, just kept their mouths shut and had the restorer remove the layer of white paint, and then showed the picture to the Gorky Foundation; all the foundation's personnel would have known, is that the picture was photographed at the time of the exhibition in the 1940's, and there was a complete record of ownership afterward. And here was the painting, looking just like it did in the 1940s. The painting would likely have been certified by the foundation, and Liza could have submitted it for auction, then banked her three million, with no one being the wiser. As for Gorky's intent, you'll note that Tanguy intentionally destroyed nearly all of his early paintings. If somebody found that one of them was inadvertently put aside and wasn't destroyed, does that mean it would be worthless because Tanguy had intended to burn it or whatever he had done to the other pictures? And, anyway, was Gorky really of sound mind and behaving sensibly after he learned of his cancer diagnosis? Is somebody who's thinking of suicide, or who is affected to heroin, as Basquiat was, still the same artist he or she was at an earlier time? My view is that every picture defines its own world, and shouldn't be assessed by comparison to other things. I, incidentally, don't like Gorky's pictures and would never have hung this one on the wall.

Many thanks for making this great show available!

What an ethical dilemma. In a way i agree with the idea that if an artist doesn't consider something good enough to show it shouldn't be shown. So in this case he painted over it. That being said, it is also (beyond a doubt) proven that it "is" the work in the photograph which at some point he proudly exhibited, which in my mind makes it valuable in itself, no matter what it looks like. And on top of that, even if the white paint would be removed, that statement still stands, it is that early painting no matter what. There is value there for sure. Maybe not millions, but still significant and i'm sure museums would be interested in the work.

It appears that the Arshile Gorky Foundation is unduly exercising its power in lieu of applying reason. If this painting is really 3 paintings in 1 and the top layer is deemed damaged beyond repair, then it should logically be restored to 2 paintings in 1 and valued as such.

Finally! Someone stands up to the fickle 'foundations'! Good for her!

She is right and sound in her decision to remove the white and expose the under paying…regardless of the Gorky foundations response….the painting and it’s Provence will ultimately prevail …brilliant episode…as usual…well don…stay safe…

Thank you so much from Australia 👍😀

Fantastic! ❤ Thank you for uploading!🎉

I'm imagining a wealthy Gorky collector would pay handsomely for a painting, knowing that it was by him, even if it is contentious.

Kept me on the seat of my chair. A real nail-biter to the end. #FakeorFortune has always been one of my favourites. Please keep them coming!

Thank you!

Thank you for the upload.

So delighted to find up to date fake or fortune here. How kind! Such a treat. Thanks very very much!

Gorky's widow gave Alexander full possession of the picture when he couldn't remove the overlying white paint. He's got written documentation attesting to it. Gorky's family has no say, in my opinion, as to what happens to the picture. Please keep the videos rolling. This show is awesome.

Such a fascinating conundrum, at what point does altering an original cease to make it an original ? Of course by restricting supply the board have ensured stabilizing if not increasing the value of their Gorky's. I've always believed self interest eventually triumphs.

I love watching your show. 😀👍

I love seeing her riff that piece of paper into pieces. I think she made a right decision to remove that white paint and show the real beauty of that painting.

The hubris of 2023 *experts* deciding whether or not a painting should be seen regardless of the artist's wishes is breathtaking.

I usually don’t side with the foundations or “experts”, but I agree with them this time. As an artist myself, there are some pieces that are forever “in process” and also images that I have covered up that I do not want seen. The white paint very much resembled his use of white in later works. Either way, it should not be removed

Lisa has nothing to lose - she inherited a work, that itself was inherited by her late husband. Its commercial value to her is therefore irrelevant. Given that the painting is pretty much "interfered with" as it is, even doing nothing more to it at this point is inconsequential to any future "authentication" or value estimation. So... Lisa is making a practical and largely logical decision... get the underlying image revealed, for all of us to appreciate and enjoy. Perhaps - at some point, the various "authorities" who decide on whether these works have any value (commercial or otherwise), may determine that revealing a work that is significant in the artist's portfolio, is good enough to classify it as "authentic". But if they don't - who cares? The painting was obtained for nothing, and if it is worth nothing, so what?

Oh this is one of the best, as an artist I use fake or fortune as a guide for my own works as in protection of me the artist remaining the artist without denying me, it saddened me to see others having the right or wrong in say of what is or not, but how exciting is the mystery of art.

The Foundation is wrong...what a sad ending to the story...I want to see the original after the layer of white paint is removed...I admire her perseverance!

Thank you so much ! ✅

Nerve wracking!!

Thank you for downloading!

They need to clean the white paint off, conserve the painting, and then present it to the institute. The way they did it was not in the right order. Of course they are going to think that when the artist painted over the painting, he created a new work. Oh well, they can restore it and try again. They have the right provenance. It was straight from the widow.

what irks me here is the part that has been left unsaid - WHAT do THEY want them to do with this painting, given that the top layer IS irreparably damaged from the cleaning AND with the prospect that an UNDISTURBED layer could be unveiled from underneath? Rather then just INVALIDATING what it is NOW, what should be done GOING FORWARD? Paint it over once more time with the white household paint and call it a day? OR take that layer off? At the very least give an indication of which way one should progress with this...

Pienso que la depresión del artista ganó por encima de su propio talento, y que el omen negativo continúa con la extraña decisión de la Fundación, que no supo ejercer su mandato de proteger el legado del arte. Gorky decidió destruir, haciendo invisible no una, sino dos de sus obras, y la fundación destruye la posibilidad de recuperar a lo menos una obra de arte con la tecnología actual.

Lovely episode. I won’t give up the results. Tatyana ❤

Thank you From Argentina ! :)

Thankyou! Made my day!!

As always, many thanks for posting for those of us outside the country who cannot see the program in the UK. Since this is Episode 4 I guess we'll have to wait another year for more.

Cool new art lesson.

Thank you ! 😊

Given the conservation centric nature of this episode and the debate over the artists intention, some thoughts from Julian @BaumgartnerRestoration would be great to hear regarding this painting. 🤔

There was a time when the value of art could be seen at a glance. Frankly, what is the value of that painting? As a hidden primary work, a final piece or a white washed canvas? The value of art is now what the anointed tell you it is. Makes me think the contemporary art world is simply a fraud. They give it value and take it away at their pleasure.

tysm for uploading this

Thank you 🙂

All these art committees are frightened of losing control and inflated reputations!

The art world is very fickle!

That was the most spectacular ending of a Fake or Fortune ever! Wow.

that was heart braking.

Wish I had seen this years ago, when I had the opportunity to meet Gorky's granddaughter. She was very knowledgeable in art and a very nice person.

This -as it is-has got greater value than money can ever buy…. Perhaps what has happened is exactly what the Artist intended….:Go and search for the Truth……..and find it…., Art is not an “entertainer “………it is a “teacher “

This is one of - if not the most fascinating episode/case that this program has looked at. While it’s possible that there are, in fact, three works on this canvas, it seems that only can be known to be what was considered a completed piece. Unfortunately, it was the first one painted and is now irretrievably buried under multiple layers of paint. If the white overpainting was, as the Gorky Foundation suggests, a possible work intended by Gorky… well, that work was essentially destroyed decades ago when the incomplete cleaning/conservation was begun. The only sensible way forward now is to continue removing the white paint to reveal the middle work and evaluate whether it can be considered a completed work on its own.

Thank you from Germany!

How do we know who painted it white ?

Restoration processes are very interesting to me.

A thrilling episode of the series. Fiona Bruce is extremely sensual. Her common-sense incredulity before the bluntness of the comitee is touching.

Thankyou for this series ive just discovered of yours. Wonderful to see your lovely home and art pieces. Please, can you talk about a little portrait to the right of your sink in the kitchen? From a far glance it looks like Henry VII.

I love Fake or Fortune! As an aside, I have painted over a few of my older paintings with a white primer layer. I used to refer to them as repurposed canvasses. Now I can describe them as "In the style of Gorky."

The outcome was disappointing. If the widow says it is a Gorky who are the people in the institute to state it was damaged when the widow wanted the white paint removed.

The 'artist's intention' is something that can be changable, at one point he/she maybe satisfied with a work, and some time later, due to a domestic arguement, or whatever ..it isn't. Clearly the first painting was his 'intention' becuase he exhibited it ... at the time. That he then painted over it, becuse it didnt sell, or for what ever reason, doesnt negate it. Quite some value is put on skectches of artists' works, as part of the process of how they developed the final. They are accepted as 'of the artist'... whether they are the 'artist's intention..?' may be another matter. We are beignning to see simialr variablity with great pieces of music, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata with different versions, even with the one we know not being included in a published set of sonata's at the time...for whatever reason... But not publishing it at the time would not necessarily be denial of the work by Beethoven. There is no way some committee is about to throw the Moonlight Sonata into the dustbin. At any rate ForF has again produced an intriguing episode that goes far beyond 'art' in itself. Thanks for that.