Fake Quotes and Mormon Myths 

ABSOLUTELY !!!

Connor links to an article where a BYU professor of history does exactly that.

@@WalterReade But it needs to get to the missionaries in Nauvoo.

@@Sagart999 Thats my point, an obscure BYU article doesn’t cut it. Let’s stop quoting the letter in conference and in Nauvoo. The JSP also presents this letter as if it’s from Joseph. How about an article on the church website refuting this letter, as it came from Bennett.

@@Commenter2121let’s say they do that…attribute the letter to Bennett. Now you’ve got to clean up the mess of subsequent prophets, seers, and revelators quoting it over and over. The Church professes the fallibility of leaders but gives members no latitude to live in accordance with that imperfection. Step out of line under sincere personal license and you can lose your recommend and more. Speak up and you can face discipline. Until the Church learns to distinguish between constructive and malicious criticism, or between conscientious objection and rebellion, I believe we’ll continue to see no specific action or commentary from the Church as to its own mistakes.

​Starting to wonder if the persecution of the (real) saints are when you get ex'd because God wants to see we are really fighting for truth and freedom. I've never understood "the happiness letter" until Connor goes through it here. If Gen Conference is supposed to be like scripture, I just realized it is absolutely not. Wow, I'm floored. I love my Savior and want to defend, HIS word. I don't want his words to be muted, destroyed, or altered. This makes me so sad that the leaders haven't done the deep dive into truth and just quote pieces of obscure history. Apostles that should have been witnesses of Christ. ​@@aBrewster29

You are not researching yourself and that is alarming. The brother of Nancy Rigdon talks about Nancy confronting Joseph about the letter. Joseph admits it was him and says he was just testing Nancy's virtue. Don't trust this guy either. Research yourself!!

@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 I do agree. I like Connor and think he is doing good. However we all naturally are biased to what we want to believe. No one wants to believe Joseph was a sexual predator.

Well, he was not a predator. Also, he said/admitted no such thing. ​@@Telavian

@@JakobPGrau The jury is out on that.

When everyone is biased one way or another, that's why it's essential to pray for confirmation about important things, if not everything. Research is vital nowadays. If you don't have the time, you're allowing Satan to feed you what he wants even thru the directions of others who you may trust. Just like Connor showed. Even our leaders "assumed" without research. All this occurs because people chose not to spend the time to research. Let us not perpetuate the problem. Time is valuable, but so is the pursuit of truth, lest we be swayed into accepting myths and inaccurate documents and whatever.

Sidney Rigdon claimed Joseph Smith denied it. Not quite the same.

If you want believe Joseph said what you wish he said, just believe it and look for and make up evidence for what you wish. Reality and truth don't matter. Follow Connor's example and allow motivated reasoning to run your life. He has made a career out of convincing others of his paranoid beliefs. Connor seems to believe that everyone is out to get him, so, a little lying for the greater good is just what is needed.

@@sleepingrhino says you... I'll come to my own conclusions thanks, than some naysayer such as you

Ya gotta DIG DEEP into mormon history for truth Real deep. If you've been a mormon for any significant time at all, you have already been fooled into believing all kinds of falsehoods.

Have you come to understand we do not keep the Sabbath on the 7th day? I have been studying a lot of old testament writings and boy we have missed the mark. Thanks Constantine.

You are right on. Nelson so far has been the most correct about only ONE thing that he has ever said : listen to the spirit for truth, because Nelson himself is just another one of the many voices out in the world who can very possibly lead you astray if you do not do your own homework.

Yeah, Nelson IS right about one thing: "Ya better have the spirit with you, because I, Nelson, may also along with everyone else, lead you astray. SO BE CAREFUL! ".

The GAs always say how extra special the current generation is. It’s been going on literally for decades.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find out after we die that we were all here on earth because we were the 1/3 with Lucifer, but God wanted to see if we really were with him or God so that's why the veil to cover our remembrance? He wanted to really give us every opportunity. Maybe that's why this earth is so messed up because there are so many that like "force". Frightening thought huh.

I agree with you. It is hard because some of the quote have very nice messages. I do think that many time the people were well meaning in creating the quotes. Often times they would combine statements together to make a more palatable version. The only real way to determine if it was genuine is to see it in a source document, however those can and have been faked also. Follow God and do what you think is correct.

Rough stone rolling paints Joseph in a false way. It’s not factual in many respects. I would take that one with a few pounds of salt.

I guess we just remain neutral, not believing nor unbelieving and just wait for the millenium for J.S. to confirm or deny all of this first hand, in person cuz ... who can we trust, besides the Lord? That's why I pray about everything I hear and read. I don't need someone to confirm other than God, if it's his will to do so. Otherwise, I remain neutral. When forced to make a decision & without H.G to tell me, I go with my gut based on thorough research. I see no better method.

I would be very careful with Rough Stone Rolling. The absolute best thing to be looking for is where did they get their quotes. You'll have to look into every source, so why not just go straight to the Joseph Smith Papers and start at volume 1. On the Internet you can do this for free and make the print larger. However, you may not have to go through everything once you find a contradictory statement. Take it to God and that's where He gifts you the Holy Spirit of truth. The feeling that comes with knowledge. I know Joseph was a prophet too, just not the kind that the church has put up on him. He was never a polygamist. Bless you in your search.

Do you know how revelation works? Seriously, not trying to be a jerk. We are only given revelation when the Lord wants to give it to us. And then sometimes we need to ask for it. I’ve received revelation on things that, if I hadn’t asked I would never have known. I suspect the Lord gives the. Very little revelation. If it doesn’t affect the running of the church then he lets the, noodle through it on their own. And they never ask something he most likely won’t give them an answer they never asked for.

better question: are these guys really "prophets,seers,revelators" , other than in name and title only ? ya gotta wonder.

Has Hannah finally come to the understanding yet that Joseph didn't commit polygamy?

He was a liar, whether he once believed and no longer did, claiming he never did is a lie. If he really was a double agent all that time, he's still a liar.

Joseph Smith , false prophet.

@@inChristalone1960prove it!

@@inChristalone1960was Joseph false or was the adversary hard at work? The Book of Mormon is FULL of Hebraisms. Lehi's home has been found near Jerusalem. He was a wealthy potter. (No I won't provide the link. Do your own research if you are REALLY interested I find that people who won't, don't want the truth).I believe Joseph was a prophet.There is no way anyone could have fabricated what no one knew then. I don't believe he was a polygamist. He said he wasn't, Emma said he wasn't and there aren't people running around with his DNA.

Really?? Even if they attribute it to a man who didn't say it AND denied being the author? Yikes...

I know you mean well, but you do not worship Jesus Christ. You worship the church as an institution. I see your comments on Connor's videos. It's exhausting the extent to which you will go to avoid seeing the obvious truth staring you in the face. Please just stop. Stop worship "the brethren." Stop worshiping the church. They haven't seen Jesus. They don't have a weekly "board meeting," where Jesus comes and gives them marching orders for the week. There really is no need to just assume that "if general authorities are quoting it repeatedly, well, heck, flippity flip! shucky darn! It must be truth!"

Just because a quotation is misattributed doesn't innately make it wrong. I've quoted plenty of things over the years that I discovered were misattributed to Founding Fathers or to others. But they were nevertheless excellent expressions of correct principles.

I believe that came from the Temple Lot case, where the saints rationalized it was okay to lie to “gentiles” in that court case to prove they were Joseph’s rightful succession. However it goes against the scriptures. See 2 Nephi 26: 32 And again, the Lord God hath commanded that men should not murder; that they should not lie… that they should not commit whoredoms; and that they should do none of these things; for whoso doeth them shall perish. 33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men

​@@BbulL2027 Book of Mormon also says Polygamy is wrong but they did it anyway 🤣

@@BbulL2027 Thank you! When people talk about us not being ready to receive the understanding of scripture, say it's esoteric, or dismiss your question with "Think Celestial", I think of how it's supposed to be plain, and thought of this verse, but could only find the LdS plain and precious truths bit. I was a convert for a few years, definitely don't know the scriptures well myself. Numo here.

paul h dunn was a liar for the Lord. he was defrocked back in the '80's for being a phony baseballer and war hero. tsk tsk.

How do you explain Abraham calling his wife Sarah his sister in Egypt?

So you believe it is better spiritually and the lord prefers that we believe lies than truth?

Do you think Joseph was lying when he denied being the author of the "happiness letter"?

​@@Kristy_not_KristineWhere does Joseph deny he was the author? Rigdon claims Joseph made that claim. It's third hand.

It's interesting that Connor accept's Gerrit Dirkmaat's (@21:10) conclusion when it aligns with Connor's belief, but dismisses him when he doesn't: "he believes and buys into the narrative like most BYU church historians do that Joseph was a polygamist", with the implication that a BYU employee has to toe the line, without addressing the fact that nearly all historians "buy into the narrative", LDS or not.

@@kissinkatebarlow clearly not, where did you get that idea?

Yes always innocent. Historically though they would steal from and lie to the "gentiles". They were likely counterfeiting and using the Nauvoo militia to escape from charges. The whole thing was a mess, but yes members do see the leaders as all being innocent.

That flaming sword never made sense to me either🤣🤣. It's honestly an embarrassing story to call doctrine when its tone is, as you said, folklore

Testimonies from people like George Robinson, the son-in-law of Sydney and Sydney himself. We also have many other testimonies from people in 1842-1844 that something was going on. It all follows a pattern.

@@Telavian What testimony? and what pattern?

None. Joseph denied being the author.

​@@Kristy_not_Kristine Source on that? What did he say exactly?

@@pigetstuck The testimonies are not one sided of course. Numerous people spoke against Joseph. For instance Ebenezer Robinson, who didn't follow Brigham, spoke against Joseph.

I disagree. I find it moremore relatable.

What do you mean the less miraculous etc? I think Connor’s point is the exact opposite.

I mean that church history stories and quotes have been fabricated or embellished a great deal. The fact that church leaders are capable of repeating something that is inaccurate, because it sounds inspiring or faith promoting, casts doubt on everything else they teach.

There's no need for a miracle to be lurking behind every tree and under every rock for the restoration to be true. By small & simple means shall great things be brought to pass.

"I now deliver it as a prophecy that before ten years shall roll round, the queens of the earth shall come and pay their respects to this Society- they shall come with their millions and shall contribute of their abundance for the relief of the poor." - Joseph Smith - Relief society meeting - April 28th, 1842 Ten years from that point the RS would be disbanded under Brigham Young

​@@TelavianJoseph Smith If Joseph had lived, perhaps this would have been true.

@@MommaCrissa We will never know. However the promise wasn't conditional.

Every piece of evidence can go either way. However I do think if you see Joseph in the context of everything else happening in Nauvoo. Then it would make sense that polygamy would be part of it also.

I guess the 98% of professional historians who believe the evidence shows that JS practiced polygamy are just plain wrong.

Hate to break it to you. Your ancestor lied.

@@JakobPGrau Is it your position that nearly all historians, LDS or otherwise, are wrong on this topic?

@@JakobPGrau 😆😆😆

Maybe they spend more time in "meetings" than studying. Also, would they be willing to study something they truly don't understand and if they got an answer that was completely contrary to "church history" would they go against it? Around the conference table of the 12 and first presidency, they didn't even have congruency of the Holy Ghost in decisions with all, until Spencer W. Kimball with blacks in the priesthood was restored (back). Brigham took it way off course. Is it a gradual process because people are so stubborn and pigheaded? I think so. Men's ways instead of God's. I also think the "stone cut from the mountain without hands" is actually a backwards term. IMO it shows it was done without the hands of God. When the veil is rent, I believe God's literal hands will bring back a restoration of all things, including "the stumbling blocks" we are all dealing with in trying to reconcile truth.

Our Lord has commanded us who believe D and C to study history, but most members prefer not to and have ZERO understanding of the present day. If they, for one, understood the history of movies, they would realize movies are satanic, and they might go further and turn off the television, rock and roll, et cetera, and leave their mind controlled fantasyland and finally seek the truth and begin to help build up Zion. True prophets know the truth and love the truth.

Nothing, because three is no such thing as guilt by association alone.

​@@rodandnathalie You missed my point.

In our premortal life, Lucifer was once a great leader as well. Benedict Arnold was once a great leader in the American Revolution.

​@@TelavianYes, you have a point, now keep it under your hat.

Judas...picked by Christ himself

Amen!

Aww but always time to learn, right?

I’d go through the chapters in Saints Volume I that include John Bennett. That’s a place to start.

@@Waterboyofsuperman - thank you

He was an adulteter, had a wife and child he abandoned etc... there's a lot of info on this evil man if you really want to learn for yourself

@@Kristy_not_Kristine - yes. All I am interested in is truth & accuracy. Can you recommend a reliable source I could access to learn more? Tyia

Not an argument. Either his points are valid or they are not. Truth transcends whatever people choose to do with it.

@JakobPGrau Funny how what so many following him see as "the truth" end up leading them away from the truth. That's the underlying point.

And why is that? Perhaps it is you that should pause and consider that you've been led astray by false traditions and the philosophies of men

​@jaredshipp9207 perhaps that's exactly the point. What people think is the truth is a lie.

"This can't be true, because I don't like it, and I don't like the people who believe it's true. Hmmph!"

Please point to contemporary evidence showing Joseph married (and slept with) other women.

@@cboyack can’t seem to cut and paste the link but the most informative analysis of this topic is on Mormon discussions ply list titled “History and timeline of Mormon polygamy / lds discussions”. About 6 videos with loads of historical analysis. Also look at JS papers project. Odd you add “and slept with”. You know about him getting caught in the barn, before priesthood temple authority was restored, messing around with the nanny. Or the journal account of Emma chasing a pregnant polygamous wife into the street. She had a miscarriage. There ate accounts of an abortion doctor as well. Watch the 6 in-depth analysis of polygamy and get back to me.

Joseph did NOT lie. It was those who came after age those seeking to gratify their lusts in secret that lied.

@@Kristy_not_Kristine ok. 👍

What makes you think he isn't??

@@Kristy_not_Kristine I second this. @whitesmw: I don't understand the underlying message in your question. Do you get the impression he doesn't know the truthfulness of the things he's talking about in his musings?

I found Sangamo, just hadn't heard of it.

I think Sydney had a lot to say about Joseph, but out of respect he didn't. Joseph was totally different from Kirtland to Nauvoo.

@@Telavian ya, I think the power went to his head.

Be wary of citing George Robinson as an authoritative source. From FAIR: “Unsurprisingly for such a contested tale, other versions of this visit exist. The most immediate is George Robinson's, who claimed to be present. We recall that he provided Nancy's version of Joseph's proposal, discussed above. His account, however, was not yet written. In evaluating it, we must remember that his statement was not made until July 27-a month after the family meeting, and more than three months after Joseph's discussion with Nancy. During that time, despite all the disclosures made about Bennett's actions and character, Robinson continued to associate with him as a friend. In fact, after having arranged to be paid for his anti-Mormon letters to the ‘‘Sangamo Journal’’, Bennett returned to the Nauvoo home of none other than George W. Robinson.[12] Bennett arrived the day prior to Joseph's family meeting; we cannot ignore, then, the possibility that Robinson's first-person account was distorted or doctored because of his relationship with Bennett, who was immediately on-hand to counter anything Joseph told them. “Robinson's attitude and memory would also have been affected by the charges and rumours swirling around Joseph as Bennett published his exposés, since his letter was written after the publication of four of Bennett's letters.[13] “Our reading of Joseph's meeting with Sidney's family will, then, be greatly influenced by the decisions we make about even this single source. Too many authors, anxious to smear Joseph or tell an exciting tale, have used Robinson (a first hand source, holy grail of historiography) incautiously, without informing their readers of the evidentiary pitfalls which await the unwary. Robinson should not be discarded, but nor should he receive our unbounded trust.”

@@cboyack It always boils down to a he said, she said situation. I really wish we had the original letter. That would be far better than anything else.

@@cboyack You quoted this: "Robinson should not be discarded, but nor should he receive our unbounded trust". I believe the same goes for Bennett and his "History of the Saints". Yes we shouldn't trust it, but we also shouldn't discount it just because it came from Bennett.

Not an argument.

Joseph wasn't a polygamist. If that makes you angry then you're the one who needs help. Every single account we have of Joseph's so called polygamy was created decades after his death for manipulative purposes like the temple lot case where even the judge found him innocent. The writings we have from the "women" weren't written by the actual women. Most of them were written by William Clayton. But all were written by men. The handwritten testimonies from the women were in the same print so that's embarrassing. Oaks himself has spoken of fraudulent documents from the early saints. The church published loads of Joseph Smith papers so we could see for ourselves what the true history is. Armchair critics seems to love to correct without lifting a finger to do the work themselves

I’m not angry. I love Connor! I just hate to see this diversion taint his otherwise excellent work. Joseph and Brigham were both essential in their callings. Neither would be known today without the other. They loved the Lord, and were loyal to each other, were both united in His work of restoring His church and establishing Zion. The practice of plural marriage is not the norm, but for a generation it was instrumental in establishing His people-to “raise up seed” if you will. Those who, because of discomfort with pioneer-era polygamy, insist on discrediting the prophets of that era will eventually lose their place in this magnificent work and deny themselves the rich blessings of the covenant people. I wish you the best with your effort to forensically establish your theories, but keep inquiring of the Lord and listening to the Holy Spirit. God bless you!

Here, say is what it is!

@@shaunjeff45 when both Mormons and non Mormons agree he couldn't translate I wouldn't call that hear say. Both sides agree he attempted to translated the Book of Abraham.

@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 He didn't even "translate" the Book of Abraham as we would say. We have most of the original document and it has nothing to do with Abraham. I don't think the document is required, but it certainly wasn't a translation.

@@Telavian According to the heading of the Book of Abraham: "A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus." Not written by Abraham and Joseph was a story teller. It was made up by his imagination. He probably shouldn't call things a translation if that is not what he is doing. But that was his claim. Don't try back tracking when he is caught in yet another lie.

@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 The word "translation" means converting from one form to another. I am not backtracking on anything. I was simply saying we use the word translation differently today.