I talk about content of Fallout (and one thing from Fallout 2) that never made it into the shipping game, either because the design was rejected, or we didn't have time to make it, or it wasn't finished by the time the game shipped.
I like how he's so jovial about catastrophical events in the company like "so they lost the documention in a data crash😊😊😊 and the company went bankrupt 😊😊😊"
FARGO: Hey you just made a surprise hit in your spare time and your reward was 1/3rd the bonus you were promised! You're going to do twice as good next time, right?! TIM: 😆 FARGO: Right?! TIM: 🤣
@@Dream0Asylum And this is long before Avellone complained about him, since at least Tim isn't able to prove Fargo stole the money and was never planning to give out bonuses to begin with. Also Fargo in this story didn't make people work out of pocket for free.
@@ValdVincent Tim didn't make anybody work out of pocket, he said "This is what I've been working on after hours and if you like what I'm doing you can volunteer your free-time, too." Development of Fallout 1 - for the first year - was all volunteer. That's not a fault of Tim, that's a fault of Interplay. If one of my project leads came to me and said; "look I've got a really great idea and I've already put a lot of work in on a prototype - can this be our next project?" I wouldn't have pulled a Fargo and said; "I'm not backing that, work on it in your free-time, and anybody else that wants to work on it better do it after hours, too." If Interplay never had Fallout - they just would have disintegrated and faded away, there would have been nothing worth buying after it went bust.
Funny I after reading this got a recommendation from Triangle City “Dead Money cut content”. Ive never seen or heard of Triangle City so I thought it was funny it was recommended to me after I saw this comment
@@spacegoat0133 dude! if you like delving into cut content in games (especially fallout) check him out, he's such a good youtuber and super entertaining
5:55 Seeing Tim explain the buildup to Deathclaws in Fallout 1, actually reminds me of how Deathclaws are used in Fallout Sonora (Fallout 2 total-conversion), there are 3 Deathclaws in the entire game and each of them are treated as mini-bosses. Each being behind several different mysteries across the areas, one Deathclaws is even worshipped by a small community as an ‘El Diablo’.
Sonora is, maybe, the only total conversion that captured the spirit of the original Fallout without making anything over the top. Art style, diversity of quests, and game mechanics are much closer to the original first game than to Fallout 2. Level of attention to details is insane, just talking heads could be a good example of that.
Agree on that! Sonora and, on a smaller scale Nevada, are the best fan-made fallout products I've ever played. I know Tim said he won't review other ppl games, but I think this is the one I wish he could at least give a brief comment. The amount of time and work those Siberian guys put in is incredible.
I remember someone on the team telling me about "Running Burning Guy". It was a gag that never got implemented where at some point an enemy that was set on fire wouldn't die, and would run off the screen. Then in either random encounters or during combat, he'd come running across the screen.
@@CainOnGames I personally feel Synths still have a 50s retro-future aesthetic of what an android would look like, sorry you didn't like them ,but you know more than most of us on what is "Fallout" thanks for your content.
Funnily enough that Abbey is actually included in the restoration pack mod for Fallout 2, I don't know how accurate it is to what it was going to be originally but personally I think it fits.
I was gonna to point this out, Killap restored the place and tied it up thru a questline that I think it starts in New Reno. For the most the restorations had been implemented flawesly to the point that they look and feel like it was a verbatim release from Black Isle. However I kinda have a problem with the EPA facility, there is to much stuff inside and so many items to pick up (most of the useless ones) that by the time you reach your reward (and depending on your pick is gonna change the game for ya in some lore related way) it feels to small. That's just to me. But yeah, Killap's Restoration Patch for Fallout 2 and the Comunity Fallout Fixt patch for Fallout 1 are A MUST. You CANNOT allow yourself to play those games without those patches, its like Bloodlines with Wesp5's Unofficial Patch and Arcanum with the Restoration Patch. Once you install them, there is no way out, nor should be.
The Fallout 2 Restoration Project actually added back in some of the cut ideas, including your idea of the Abbey, although of course interpreted through the lens of the modders. The Fallout Bibles released by Chris Avellone in 2002, before Van Buren was cancelled, are a gold mine for understanding some of the ideas that were going around Interplay at the time but never made it into the game. That's where I learned about the talking racoons and the Abbey.
I still play FO2 with the Restoration Project mod. One of the dialogue options at the Abbey is just too hilarious not to pick, but it ends up getting one of the monks pretty torqued. They knocked it out of the park with the EPA area.
Tim: "I don't like talking animals." Brahmin: "Moo, I say!" I always loved the clay heads (I never knew that they were actually clay heads), and it was always exciting when you found a new character that was animated and had spoken dialogue that you could interact with. It's common place now, but it was super rare and unique then. Did you have any input or stories about the voice actors selected? Like how did you get Richard Dean Anderson and Ron Pearlman? Was that intentional or just a happy accident of fate? Thanks for putting this out for everyone.
It's important to note that in previous videos/talks, Tim and other devs mentioned a lot of the zanier ideas(talking animals, etc) were relegated specifically to special encounters with the intention of distinguishing the less serious material from the actually serious game content. This obviously went out the window with 2, but that's why the "Moo, I say!" is an encounter and not just something the brahmin say around the wasteland.
Never played Fallout (1) but I remember my first time fighting a deathclaw and especially the deathclaw alpha mother in quarry junction. Still gives me ptsd to this day
they build it up really well too, the guy who talks about the missing caravans doesn’t wanna say why they went missing because you’d cower like himself
Yeah it was, I was building it up inside my head and it still more terrifying than what I could come up with lol. I wish more games would do this because the suspense of what it is you are looking for really immerses you.
I'd like to tell you that you've always been a sort of personal hero of mine. Ultimately Fallout led to me getting a Master's degree related to game design with a thesis that was an analysis of the entire series. I'm watching these videos and it's such a blast, I'm so happy you created this channel. I hope whatever you choose to do next brings you the same joy that previous projects have brought you. Thank you so much for doing these!
@@OneDodgyDude Sadly, no, it is in Polish (native language!) and my university holds the copyright. It was an analysis of the Fallout series + an animated view of what I imagined what a "Van Buren" level (Burham Springs) would look like at the point it was cancelled. I can tell you that the presentation was supposed to last 15 minutes, but it ended up being an almost 2 hour discussion with the professors - turns out they were huge Fallout fans too! It was especially funny to write a short chapter about how fans on the NMA forum straight up called Fallout: BoS... Fallout:PoS! Now that Tim has released these videos I'm sure a lot of the information in there would need an update too. I don't even work in game development at this point, it will forever be a passion and Fallout will always be the number one series!
Hi Tim, just wanted to say you're a huge inspiration, Arcanum is the reason why I can speak english and do gamedev as a hobby. You making this channel is the best thing that's happened this year. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for letting us know Sir! Please do shower us with information, stories and facts for any cut content from *Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines* !
I am so thrilled to have discovered this channel. It's really a wild trip to the past and i love hearing the stories of how you'd go around developing ideas. I've been working for a small indie team for some years now and the insight i've gained from your videos wasn't just fun as a fan of Fallout, but it's taught me things i should've really heard years ago. Thank you Tim for these deep dives into more retro game dev and a great portion of idea's and lore from one of my top ten franchises!
Perhaps. While i love f1-4 and nv and play them a few times every year im not holding my breath for f5 after seeing f76, starfield and outer worlds. The team that once made the awesome Fallout setting is scattered and are old now. But id like for Tim and Leonard to get another chance with Fallout (or anyone else, the product quality is what matters so anyone who can do a great Fallout game would be welcome but i think we would get a "games as a service" etc)
dude when fallout 4 came out I was saying this exactly... I said, why are we getting power armor and killing a death claw at the start of the game? it robs each of their mystique. game had the most bizarre pacing.
Same with the family stories in Fallout 3 and 4. "Gotta find my father/son that I knew for 5 minutes, don't know what happened and if they are dead or not, but I'm gonna do something else for 100 hours, like visiting an amusement park, getting abducted by aliens, messing with the Enclave, building settlements for some random people for another 300 hours, before I actually go looking for them." Doing anything else before doing the story doesn't make any logical sense, if it's family and your character is written to deeply care for them.
Because they wanted to introduce the whole PA early and show you how cool it is, and deathclaws weren't something new. Not saying that's good or bad. But either way the PA you get is gets broken easily, is hard to fix and you have no fusion cores so it's not like you will use it for much more than that one fight.
@@niyiu3547well, consider this. Take fallout 3. Fallout 3 pretty much sets off with you leaving the vault and aimed directly at megaton, the only known area of civilization that the player will encounter and the biggest area that includes your dad. You don’t have to follow the main story sure, but it’s an rpg. It’s meant for you to do whatever the fuck you want. There’s structure there you can’t miss unless you have a blindfold on, but you don’t have to follow it.
@@niyiu3547At least power armor balancing wasn't complete joke in fallout 3. In fallout 3 sure there are couple ways of getting power armor but most of power armor were scavenged by brotherhood of steel also good luck getting one from them without killing them or having to intertwine. My only praise is how power armor works in old fallout game and new vegas those are the best. Also no i am not new vegas fanboy.
Speaking of cut content for Fallout, was there a thing you wanted to put in Fallout but unfortunately technology (at the time) didn't allow it/would make it too time consuming?
The Abbey from the Fallout 2 Restoration Project feels like a faithful interpretation of the A Canticle for Leibowitz theme. I enjoyed exploring that location.
“It’s not about plasma guns, and there shouldn’t be humanoid androids.”-Tim Cain, 1997 “It’s entirely about plasma guns and humanoid androids.”-Todd Howard, 2015
Off topic from the video, but Bethesda made a mistake with Fallout 3 not coming up with entirely new factions and lore unique to the Capital Wasteland. This wouldn’t have solved that lack of meaningful role play elements and awful writing though.
It's just so rad how you've come out to reveal some of the backstory to this incredible game. You helped shape the fundamentals of the industry and it's fascinating to hear your perspective, thanks!
totally with you on the talking animals/humanising monsters thing, Tim. The racoon thing would've been much more fitting if they were more scrappy and weird like Biomutant, but I still just couldn't stop thinking about Rocket Raccoon. The Interplay building idea is interesting, as there is a Bethesda one in Fallout 3! That monastery got added via a mod in the Fallout 2 restoration project, I believe.
It's kinda surprising hearing what Tim has to say about the talking animals in Fallout. In terms of the talking deathclaws at least, I actually really liked them. I liked the idea of these terrifying monsters being given humanity and it was very sweet to me that these brutal murder machines, once given sentience, didn't want to hurt anyone and merely wanted to live in peace. The fact they get wiped out by the Enclave just made it more tragic for me.
After listening to Tims take I think it would have been cool if you had to sneak away from the first death claw encounter in FO4 in Quincey. Shouldn’t be easily killed at such an early level
If you think about it the whole thing seems like a kind of tech demo to try out the new engine and show it off for the reveal. You have several weak enemies, melee weapons, firearms of multiple types, Lazer muskets, an ally aiding you, a powerful enemy aiding you, power armor. If you had crafting benches, settlements and a vertibird to extract you that's almost all of the game's features right there. I think that would be awesome though if you had to run and later could fight that same deathclaw when you're stronger.
Damn, I discovered you’re channel just yesterday, and I’m so glad I did! It‘s so awesome to hear you talk about all the many experiences you‘ve been making, I really appreciate it a lot you’re motivated to share them with us!
man, i really appreciate you sharing your stories and also really enjoy your story telling (not surprised ) in this videos 14 min went like it was nothing. thanks.
Tim Cain, I love your videos on classic Fallout. I didn't play the original Fallout 1 or 2 when they were popular but when I went back and played them. They became my favorite in the franchise and then also learning more about the development is really interesting and cool! Thank you for your work on this pieces of art.
Thank you so much for sharing your stories and game development knowledge Tim. Your passion really shows in how you just describe taking notes. A good amount of the cut content from fallout 1, the raccoons and some terminator stuff, and other fallouts has actually been added to the fallout mod for a game called Hearts of Iron 4, called Old World Blues, which is actually one of the most popular mods for the game.
Ive been watching alot of Fallout and Elder Scrolls videos so your channel showed up as a recommendation and im glad for that. Thanks for making these videos!
Tim love your work. So happy to see you sharing this, I wish more devs would give these behind the scenes looks at some of our favorite games. Be well!
I read Canticle because of you when I heard you first mention it as an inspiration for Fallout. The first act of that book is so intriguing when they're trying to unravel the mystery of the fallout shelter.
The fact that you get power armor, a minigun and fight a deathclaw in basically the first serious combat mission of the game was so bad for the arch of the game. One of the many poor design choices in my opinion.
While synths don't really fit the 50s asthetic specifically, they do remind me of Disney animatronics from the 60s, which is still midcentury retrofuturism.
At least until you get to the whole "3d printing fully grown humans on a cellular level" thing. That's always seemed several steps too far into "blade runner sci fi" territory.
Hello Tim, I would like to thank you so much for running this channel and telling us these wonderful stories. I have a question for you regarding the Fallout series, namely why is the culture in Fallout stuck in the 1950s? I really enjoy listening your stories! Keep it up!
I love this! Thank you for making this video. There are many of us diehard Fallout fans, and we appreciate the work you've done. Personally, I adore Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3 and the original two titles, I remember when I was hyped for Fallout 4, just to be disappointed with many strange decisions, like the Death Claw in the beginning of the game, and with the lack of real RPG elements. I definitely never liked the Institute either. Thought it was a neat throw-away side quest in Fallout 3, but I really didn't want to see them further than that. It feels too much like Blade Runner or Terminator, and I HATE the 60s Star Trek Enterprise aesthetic the Institute main base has. In New Vegas and Fallout 3 and the older titles, I like how the pre-war world is a retro-futurist of a 1950s era that never left. I love how it still looks very 1950s, without the retro-future stuff getting too Jetsons-like. Yeah sure, does it make sense for America to look like how it did in 1959? No, but who cares, it looks cool and makes the aesthetic more believable. Fallout 4, is what really changed that. Their overall pre-war art style went the way of the Jetsons and something more a kin to Meet the Robinson's, yuck! Have you seen the art for Pre War Boston or thr advertisements? Look at the stupid over sized espresso machine. It's comical. Why is everything big bulky and bubble shaped? It drives me nuts! There are some good ideas, here and there that I greatly appreciate. Personally, I adore the art asthetic of Fallout 76 way better and I think it's league's better than FO4. Another personal note for art design, I kind of like how the Power Armor is more a kin to a mech suit, but at the same time, I think it looks too big and cumbersome. It depends on the power armor model though. For example, the T-51B looks great in FO4, where as the X-01, looks goofy, In comparison to the Fallout 2-New Vegas advanced Power armor, worn by the Enclave. In short, I don't see why everyone likes Fallout 4 so much, apart from the better shooting mechanics and the newer graphics. Even then, the character models look terrible, like melting plastic.
Hey Mr.cain! Just wanna say I just finished fallout for the first time and it took me about 2 years to finish xD I'm 24 and I've never experienced a game so refreshing and unforgiving as fallout! That is most definitely a compliment lol. Anyways just wanna say I appreciate these videos and awesome stories!
Another interesting video, thank you! Something that I was wondering about that could hopefully make for a cool topic is how you guys go about sort of designing the whole backstory/world for games. Like how did you approach the world building for Fallout and Arcanum, the history of the world and all of that that the player may not interact with directly but that is there to provide context for everything. The timeline before the games take place.
Hey Tim, loving your videos, you have such an inspiring positive energy that I love to see haha. Was wondering if you'd ever do a video talking about fallout 3, new vegas and 4 more, how from your perspective as the IPs creator, how the change to other people felt. More than anything to be honest I'd like to know the POSITIVES about these games, what you as the creator like about where the series has evolved to!
Hey Tim! I'm really glad you mentioned that bit about the Deathclaws in Fallout 4. I really felt like the opening to Fallout 4 was by far the weakest and least "Fallout" of all titles out there. They literally give everything to you within the first few minutes, presumably to hook the player with a bunch of shiny toys and a big monster to kill. It felt very anti-Fallout, truthfully. Even the deathclaws in Fallout 3 managed to be insanely freaky and scary in comparison to 4. I don't know. I just thought you made a very good point about what makes them scary, and how you liked to use them. Another great video!
You mentioned Fallout 2 diverged from its original plan. I know you’ve stated that you had no plans or desire to make a Fallout sequel but I’m curious to know what your original ideas for it were when you were involved in it. You’ve said the Enclave had a different goal and that some of the areas such as Arroyo and Klamath were there from the beginning but was what you had planned similar to the final game or was it very different? Alternatively, how would you have done Fallout 2?
Tim Cain, what an absolute pleasure it has been discovering your channel. Its amazing. I have a question. With the general consensus of Outer World's being "its a solid game but lacking something, a spark or" What is your reaction to this
It lacks a ton of passion. And world. 99% of the biggest city, built up as this giant rich city, and when you get there, you get to explore barely a street or two without any interiors.
I remembered playing Fallout 2 when i was 12 or something. My older brother taught me how to hack turrets to help us during last boss mission. Something i cannot find in next franchise. And i miss this a lot. Thanks Tim for bringing one of those sweet memories back
I would agree with the deathclaws being only these high danger beasts but I did rather like the talking deathclaws in Fallout 2. They served an interesting plot twist that makes the player question the nature of the things they kill. That being said Avellone confirming their extinction in the Fallout Bible was the correct call. Wish I could see Goris in later games though.
Always wanted to know more about Talking Head characters... Did you put all the Talking Heads you wanted into the game, or some characters didn't recive their own? Also... I wonder how was the Master imagined the way he is in-game...
These are really fascinating videos to watch Tim. I'd love to know your thoughts on the legacy of your game (Fallout 3, New Vegas and 4). I don't suppose you could do a video on that? I've only just started watching your videos but I don't suppose any cover your cult classic of "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines" do they? -Many Thanks
While I'm critical about some stuff in Fallout 2, the Den was one of the few areas I liked (yes, the ghost and the ghoul mummy felt a bit out of place), but overall it still got a similar vibe to areas from the original.
I am happy about talking deathclaws in 2, because for some reason they made me feel good. I imagined living in the vault with them and their babies were so cute when they made sounds trying to talk. Also some deathclaws could talk more and some less and their levels of education differed. I have fond memories. But the ghosts weren't too bad either. Made sense for the Umbra Tribe too, where you have to help a shaman to calm the spirit, or Hakunin who can talk to spirits as opposed to the Enclave who attacked them, described as demons with hell torches, but they can't reach the spirit world just like the tribals.
Interesting. I really enjoy the JSaywer mod for FONV where he tunes gameplay to be a little different. I'm curious how you might change your previous games if you had the chance to revisit them.
I just saw a video by triangle city and how the followers of the apocalypse originally had 30 planned characters in the games files and an in-depth quest on finding the traitor among them. Also it talked about how the faction was originally slightly more militaristic having three roles in the faction. Scouts, scholars and I forget the third one. The goal of the original quest was to talk to members of the faction to find out who the traitor was. This would allow for the cut end credit slide to be shown saying that the player helped the follows to survive. Do you remember anything about this quest? I also appreciate you confirming that the vaults were intended as asocial experiment to prep the enclave for space travel that would never come. Even fallout 4 appears to have kept this idea alive with the rocket test facility. It’s a shame about you having to leave Fallout 2 and how it ended up being more black and white then shades of grey.
I would be very interested in seeing if you could share any notes you had about the Abbey of Lost Knowledge. I could totally see the modding community taking this idea and making something out of it.
The plans to have a version of your own offices in the game reminds me that Obsidian did something similar in New Vegas years later: the Basincreek Building is a reference to (I think) the first office they worked out of, there's ants there because they had ants in real life, and water damaged ceilings because the real office leaked, etc
Awesome to hear what could have been! It would be interesting to hear your opinion as to why some people turn into ghouls whereas some die of radiation poisoning in the FO universe. If I'm not mistaken, Chris Taylor had the idea that ghoulification was due to a combo of FEV and radiation, but it was later scrapped to only radiation?
That "Abbey of Lost Knowledge" sounds like something I have been putting in my own Game Project, and now I have to wonder if I unconsciously picked that up from the Fallout Games. ^^' In any Case, I love the Concept, it sounds very nuanced and grounded. :)
10:40 oh my gosh the Abbey. That was always my favorite sounding cut location. I wanted it so bad I modded it into the game (poorly) at one point when I was about 15.
Yeah, couldn't agree more, fighting a death claw and being given power armor the first hour into the game was an absolutely insane choice. It's almost like one of those thoughts you would have as a kid "Man, power armor is amazing! I wish I didn't only get it at the end of the game!" But if you actually did have it at the beginning of the game either you skate through enemies or it has to be nerfed to the point that it's leather armor that looks like power armor. I think devs these days think modern video game audiences are like children who demand dessert before dinner. Maybe they're right though... I mean... It sells.
I think the Fallout 2 Restoration Project is a good look into cut content, in that it tries to restore everything: Some of it fits, and some of it doesn't: Like, being able to save Sulik's sister, or being able to take multiple routes to the Enclave feel like things that *should* have been in there, but then when it adds the Abbey or the EPA, which the game wasn't designed around, it breaks the flow or feels superflous.
Thank you for the video! I don't mean for this to be pedantic but the Railroad and synths were introduced in Fallout 3's "The Replicated Man" quest. Was it a shared opinion (among the original team) that the humanoid robots don't belong in Fallout? How about the semi-human Assaultron? It is still a bit Forbidden Planet in it's design.
Hey Tim, have you ever doing a playthrough of fallout 1/2? It'd be like the commentary track included on dvds. Just a thought. Thanks for the childhood memories. ( I remember buying fallout 1 from Costco and my moms reaction at the title "fallout? That sounds uplifting"
Wow Arcanum. I kind of forgot about that game but holy cow. Some of the dialog was like massive. I remember a dialog that took something like 20 minutes to get through. But it certainly was fun. Unfortunately that game felt like the start of something that never really was totally finished, like you guys could have put another 100 hours of content in that thing and it would still have held up, and probably been one of the biggest games ever made at the time content wise. It could have definitely been a new IP that should have had a life of it's own. But it probably got overshadowed by Baulder's Gate or something.
Just watched a video on cut Irvine Utopia town and Brian Fargo's sport car yesterday. Is it true that there was a troll quest on repairing that car? But every time you tried to replace a broken part it wasn't enough. And in the after credits cinematic a villager (or a mutant) just had kicked that car and it started.
From what I've read about the Abbey of Lost knowledge, it would've have been an interesting location. I think you were supposed to meet an older Ian there.
Interesting video. I agree on the dearhClaw situation. It did kinda bring down the spooky factor. I thought fO3 did great with it. FO1 … omg I had to load so many times!!!
