Fallout New Vegas - Why Cesar's Legion is Great 

Cesar had to do something right to conquer the number of tribes he did.

If ceasar bad, why safe roads

There’s one crucial factor about the Legion that wasn’t touched upon in this video. The Legions brutality was born by an equally more brutal and uncivilised landscape in Arizona and beyond. It was utter chaos and Caesar wanted to bring order. In a land as brutal as that it could have only been done one way , through organised brutality with law and order enacted through sheer force. It’s an undeniable fact at least with the in game dialogue we have access to, that the legions lands are ordered, bandits and raiders have been chased off. There aren’t creatures killing off traders and travellers and there certainly seems to be a non military civilian population which enjoys a good standard of living, otherwise Dale Barton would have no one to trade with. Their economy is much stronger than the NCR and is less prone to inflation, plus we can see Caesar has his own logistics and administration showing that the legion is more than just organised raiders. Caesar also states very clearly that he intends to conquer the NCR and at which time it is his intention to change the Legion, which I believe will be a combination of the NCR and Legions best facets. The Legion is an absolutely brutal and vicious force that enacts severe punishment on its enemies or those who don’t hold the ideals of the Legion, but this isn’t as black and white evil as we think it is, I see it more of a necessity, humanity itself and all we hold dear Today was built on the foundations of very brutal and repressive empires who had to remain that way because they lacked the technology to keep a popular from descending into chaos and descending on one another every time their bellies rumbled. They needed to keep order through fear which is unfortunate but certainly necessary.

Good Karma Legion boy here.

1. People need to look at the Legion from the Wasteland perspective, not our world perspective. 2. The Legion has a ton of content cut from the final product. 3. The Legion we see in-game is supposed to be the frontlines war-time Legion not Legion as a whole. 4. The Legion is supposed to only enslave tribals and such. 5. There are still plenty of settlements in Legion-controlled areas that arent enslaved or part of the actual Legion and live their lives as they always did + they dont have fear of being killed by raiders or wildlife. They simply must abide by the occasional "tribute" the Legion demands from them. 6. Caesar wants to incorporate the good things from the NCR and the Legion and eliminate the bad things from both. (He explains this himself in the dialogue with him). 7. Yes, the Legion we do get to see in-game is merciless and brutal, but they still have some good points if you take your time to actually delve deeper into them. (Even some NCR citizens allude to these "good" points. Also considering lot of what we were perhaps meant to also see was eventually cut due to time limitations of the development and we were left with a more savage war-like side of the Legion coin).

Boy, lucky this dude found Cesar's biography in the ruins instead like mein Kamph.

Funny thing is that the Legion for all they are in the base game, they are an incomplete faction, Obsidian meant to add more stuff to the faction to make them more morally grey faction.

What REALLY gets me about Caesar is that he wants to trick the White Gloves into resuming their old ways and subsequently blackmail him. All the players who defend the legion on the premise of "at least they take care of the fiends, raiders and get results" have to overlook the fact that Caesar is even a hypocrite to his own standards. He doesn't care if people exhibit these behaviors as long as they do so while under his thumb.

Caesar believes he is doing the right thing, that's why he does not show doubt in his doing to anyone. He is not evil and he is not a psychopath. He's a bit of a prick, but that's neither here nor there. Most of his people are uneducated tribal warriors, Kshatriya. In terms of their cunning in any other regard, they are children, so they do not question Caesar. Almost all leaders who wound up on the bad side of things thought they were doing good, or at least doing bad for the right reasons. Caesar is self-aware of his Legion's shortcomings as a nation. They are Caesars Legion, after all, not Caesars Nation, New Rome, or Caesars Empire. They are an army without a state, not a state with an army or even an army with a state, though it does operate as a state in some limited regards. There is singular mention of a consul within the game, which has implications of a governing body, but I think it to be more an oversight or maybe just hinting towards a very minor administrative/bureaucratic body in the context given. Caesar knows what he's doing and what he has. He seeks to achieve the synthesis as aligns with his, admittedly simplistic, interpretation of Hegel. Neither his Army nor the NCR's state are sustainable, as far as he's concerned. He is just the dialectical antithesis to the NCR's thesis. In his ultimate victory over the NCR, or even vice versa, he desires something better than both to be forced into being, possessing better qualities of both inferior opposites. Me personally, I don't usually side with The Legion. I don't like being mean to NPCs. I'm a very agreeable individual. But I think Caesar has a solid idea, in theory.

4:21 “the legion is not honorable…the legion is not resourceful.” I’m assuming you’re kind of speaking about the faction in a meta sense. Because if you were looking at the faction as they are presented they are both of these things. Their whole melee focus is resourceful. The whole point is ncr troops can run out of bullets but swords/fists don’t. And the legion is honorable. When they send parties to hunt you down they tell you to arm yourself just before they engage you. They are a warrior society that honors combat experience. -Just in case you didn’t catch these lines in the game. Great video so far.

The part about the BoS really hits hard. The fact that in essentially all the fallout games the BoS do essentially nothing but horde tech makes them no different than scavengers. Honestly if it wasn’t for Bethesda insistent to drag out their corpse instead of just letting them wither into dust the faction would’ve been a relic. It’s why now as hard as it can be to do it, I feel killing off the brotherhood in New Vegas is the correct choice. Any other option just extends their life unnecessarily to what is a foregone conclusion. The NCR is proof enough their mission statement is a failure. The world built themselves back up without them, they just don’t have the courage to admit it yet.

I liked the video, however I was slighty confused at some points. I watched your House video first before watching this, and that felt more of a in-world justification of why Mr. House is great (inspite of some disagreements I have with that), but this is a meta game reasoning to why the Legion is great. You're not talking about how they're ruthlessly efficient at keeping order, how they keep trade routes safe by killing any and all raiders that come nearby, Ceasar's plan to synthesize the Legion and NCR into one greater nation with the sum of their parts, and overall a lack of discussion about Ceasar's views on the NCR, growing up and founding the Legion, Ulysses and the other faction member like Vulpes, Lucius and Lanius. Addendum: To be honest i could've just read the description and gotten the same amount of knowledge from the video without watching it, not to say the video was bad at all but i figure it lacks the substance to justify why the Legion is good within it's own right

Ave, true to Caesar

When I went through the legion storyline so that way I can get the achievements I was missing I had to make a roleplay storyline for my character pretty much the reason he joined the legion is because he could not forgive himself for letting the NCR trick him into destroying the divide and hopeville and he knows that he himself cannot get vengeance on the NCR by himself so no matter what Caesar has done or will do he knows this is his best bet morally and in real life I would never side with somebody like Caesar but I had to get those achievements and it allowed me to do some other quest I haven't completed or choose new outcomes for quest I previously couldn't choose any other ending like the one with cass and the van graffs but I was able to have the brotherhood of steel join the legion which was pretty cool I guess in a way Excel for all the people saying that they morally can't stomach it it's just a matter of perspective

Imagine the Followers, Great Khans, and Legion remnants join forces to create the new Byzantine Empire

I wish there was more side quests that explored the tribal backstories of Legionaries and their regrets or betrayals or forgotten pasts. So much potential.

Just remember that Caesar was born in the NCR. In one of the five founding capitols of the NCR. His parents were murdered by raiders in a city that has been part of the "safe" NCR for 150 years. No raiders in Legion territory, and they've only been at it for ~30 years.

As a player i have never once joined Ceasar's legion not because i dislike them but because much like Ceasar's scathing remarks toward the brotherhood i dont see a future worth fighting for in the legion

Hey man say what you want about Caesar but at least the trains are on time

in the fictional world of fallout the legion is perfectly fine , however the single biggest reason why the legion is great is because it makes all the NCRedditors have a meltdown and immediately try to make people look evil due to supporting an ˝evil˝ faction in a video game , its like someone calling me a nazi cause i like to play as germany in hearts of iron

I side with caesar maybe half of the time. barring an immortal robot man who wants to take humanity to the stars, The Legion is the best choice for the Mojave. House cares for little outside of the strip and the NCR is spread thin, unable to protect its taxpayers. In a world beset by raiders, fiends and hostile wildlife, the Legion provides security and purpose to the common man.

the legion is interesting i think they are a great pick for a evil character however there are still reasons to side with them outside of being a evil character since i would say the legion are lawful evil and in the world of fallout cesar might have the best idea for humanitys survival i mean if you take the player out of the game its likely that the legion would have ended up winning so i can see reasons to side with them

“At least we’re not helping the Legion” That’s no excuse, nor is any other choice based off that notion, a good choice.

Only problem with the legion is that they shouldn’t rely on slaves entirely because eventually slaves will have a revolt, which would create an inner rebellion within the legion..

Playing Mr House present campaign. However designing my psychopath for the Legion next campaign. "I admire the purity of the Legions justice" has to be one of the best NPC's lines ever. I intend to dish out more of the same. Unfortunately the player can't crucify victims but I'm working on other macabre methods.😂😂😂

My main gripe with the Legion is, by far, how they didn't adapt the best qualities of a Roman legion, instead going for the worst ones. They don't employ auxiliaries (they're all Legionaires or nothing), they don't employ artillery or Vellites, seeing ranged options as cowardly (despite using them themselves hypocritically), they aren't good engineers (the Fort doesn't look dissimilar from any raider camp) and they DO NOT USE SHIELDS. The greatest advantage of the Roman legions over their enemies, their adaptability, their use of shields and their discipline, and Caesar's Legion only has dumb brainwashed teens charging blindly against their superior foes. They claim to be Roman, yet they act like an unruly mob of barbarians. Hell, the Celts and Germans had a better grasp of rank-and-file and shieldwalls than the Legion does

The point of the legion is that the choices you make, will be for greater good, Ceasar ensalved and crucified people but now the population of Arizona lives in peace, serving one master but without worryng about raiders or scavengers. It is a system of cruelty but at the end, the people serving the legion will be happier as "slaves" than a NCR citizen as "free" but full of taxes and in a world that doesn't exist anymore

Not evil, just practical

I think we need to address the fact that New Vegas is meant as a criticism of different political theories. The modern idea of politics isn't meant to be a baseline, and the NCR isn't meant to be the only criticism. The legion is meant to discuss political regression it holds no love for modern morality or politics. The legion's strengths and what's supposed to be looked at is the underlying stability excusing the obvious Achilles heel, the legion is the most stable and fair command structure, there's a direct chain of command from the lowest recruit all the way to ceaser himself and you will move the ranks over time alongside that his roads are safer and his people respect their positions. The legion says that as long as Ceaser is the head, it will charge forward, and its people will know security that most of the wastelands have forgotten

saying that leaving the factions of the mojave to their own devices will be better for them in the long run rather than integrating them into the legion by force is craaaazy

Honestly, I'd rather like the Khans to conquer the Mojave and Vegas. They adapt to their surroundings in order to survive. They bring loyalty and integrity. They are willing and able to strive for trade. They will protect you from the NCR. They will protect you from the Legion. They value honesty and strength of character.

The Legion is the moral choice for the wasteland. The NCR is the immoral choice for the wasteland

The legion, like every other fallout faction, has its ups and downs. That why I dont think any faction is truly completely bad. I mean yes they enslave people they conquer and kill alot of people when conquering, but if you look at the area once its been conquered its pretty peaceful. There are no raiders. no random supermutant gangs hiding out in old buildings, no other factions fighting for dominance. As much as the legion is VERY brutal in the taking of land, once the land is taken it is relatively peaceful. Not even the minutemen could ensure safe roads in one small commonwealth, imagine most of the legions territory. Am I vindicating them of their crimes? No. Im just saying it balances out over time and really it just depends on how you feel about it. Plus, their roman. I like romans.

Glad I stumbled across your channel

They're my favourite antagonists, NCR play throughs feel like over coming a monster both in the Legion and the NCR. They also very accurately depict a fascist society and military with a fair degree of detachment from what we typically identify as fascist since they are 200 years in the future

I've played every faction more than once, and even as a Homicidal Maniac who just kills everyone. But the Legion winning Never feels right in the end, though it is quite interesting.

Love this, this counts everything wrong and right about a faction. People just don't understand that the factions are not perfect.

If someone IRL says they unironically say they like the Legion I can’t help but give them the bombastic side eye 👀

I had forgotten that the “Boomers” are a faction in NV and not geriatrics 😅

Secured roads. Currency that holds it's own value. Two things which Caesar's legion holds, that NCR does not.

I think that the slavery point is taken somewhat out of context when criticizing the Legion in the Fallout Universe. Because slavery is back and booming from everything we can see in the rest of the world, there seem to be many factions that are built on slavery and there is plenty of slavery going on inside the NCR whatever their laws might be, based on the first two games at least. So while it is of course valid to criticize the faction for engaging in slavery, I think it skews things to present them as if they are bringing slavery with them. They aren’t, they are just using it more effectively than others, it would seem. Their misogyny and military organization are much more distinctive in the fallout universe.

Your take is definitely a breath of fresh air when it comes to discourse around the factions of the Mojave.. I wholeheartedly agree with you that The Legion works perfectly in-game as an actually valid ideological faction to choose between, but that's kinda where the positives end. Oh and remember people, some arguments (if not most) that you're using to defend Caesar's Legion as something that (even if) theoretically would work are the same kind of arguments that can justify things like fasc!sm (and that other one too), and that's not something you ever want to have, regardless of whether it's modern day or a fictional post-apocalyptic wasteland

I'm Subscribed to you now, but you only having two Videos so far is making me super sad.... 🙁

I have no idea why but in Fallout: New Vegas, I almost always pick the Legion. Some thing about the NPCs in Fallout: New Vegas always makes me want to mercilessly massacre them. However, I really only believe that the Legion has a future if it falls apart first and then regroups under a new Caesar, one that is foreign to the Legion but adaptable enough to learn and assimilate into their culture while fundamentally being so commanding and authoritative that the Legion is reforged under this new Caesar.

The dichotomy I like seeing in siding with the Legion over the NCR, is the dichotomy to be willing to accept the terms of the Wasteland. The Legion is the logical conclusion for being the best equipped path of humanity to handle the Wastes. Whereas the NCR is the conclusion to those who refuse to who accept the terms of the Wasteland and it's unrivaled brutality. Those who refuse to let go and keep with the time of brutality. In other words, those siding with the NCR are unwilling to compromise their old world values to that of the Laws Of The Wastes. I'd ramble on further but I don't really feel like getting in a heated discussion in another comment section.

I tried doing a legion play through one game, but I can’t find it in me to be evil. It just doesn’t feel right.

Yt wont let me edit my comment again, but it’s also spelt Caesar, not Cesar.

They do kind of apologize for how bad they are because they constantly make excuses for their evil actions, excuses that have convinced the more mentally feeble parts of the fallout community. Maybe not a great thesis to get for the video? I think the legion is a good faction (in that it is interesting narratively) but there are better ways to communicate that

Should do a Enclave video or bos

Before meeting Ceasar: 🤢🤮🤡😭😡🤬😬😤😰 After meeting Ceasar: 😑😐😳🤯😱😇😈😎🥰😍🤩🥳💪👌

Even with really good Karma, I would choose Legion.

But life under the legion ISN'T worse. Ask those caravans who trade WITHIN the legion they say the roads are SAFER than under the NCR or anywhere else.

Great videos

I joined him for the achievements, LOL. But seriously, I figured if my PC were living in that scenario, slavery is always around the corner. That's how much of a threat Ceasar possess: uncertainty.

Free from corruption... by the Legions metric

Legion: Evil NCR: Corrupt Yes Man: Unpredictable House: Smart

Some people seem to like living under authoritarian regimes. Usually, those people are the ones who, through nothing more than accident of birth, are in the preferred demographic. Most people who are not members of the preferred demographic or who can empathise with such people oppose such regimes.

AVE TRUE TO CAESAR Real currency; not fiat Actually cares about it's citizens NO TAXES

I honestly say the independent Vegas ending is worse than Caesar.

*standing on top of a pile of skulls in front of a row of crosses in the middle of Arizona desert* Mmm, yes, these roads are so safe now. Now all male traders whom we need for supplies or else why let them here at all as long as they don't carry anything that reminds me of painkillers can walk here. Will now go civilize the next tribe for dinner because this is how I and the army I am a part of reliably supply ourselves, so says the chief military officer next in rank after Caesar. Sure don't think Caesar not having a doctor to diagnose his tumor that his camp is remotely aware of without a courier ex machina is in any shape his fault or a consequence of his governance and worldview. Sure think that every common legionnaire has access to paracetamol to treat common cold. Worst case, this herbal mix brew we appropriated from Ulysses's tribe heals 36 hit points over 18 seconds. Sure hope these medicinal herbs grow very well in the middle of Arizona desert. Like seriously, "the frontlines war-time Legion not Legion as a whole"? There is no bloody legion as a whole that isn't in a war time. Same can also be said about the NCR, and they somehow don't make a habit of enslaving children or slaughtering and pillaging towns, as full of their own incomparably lesser systematic problems as they are. At least NCR can exist in peace time without its benevolent dictator for life. Caesar drops shade on Tandi, and comes to the wrong conclusion same as House does when he shit talks democracies, confusing them with in-universe Fallout pre-war US. I wish from a narrative point there was a way to look at the Second Battle of Hoover Dam without Courier's intervention because our sprinty mail person sure gets around, kinda skewing whatever faction they support in term of political power. That said, obviously House is House and he can't be an autocrat if he's not around and his whole plan relied on his immortality protocol, so when that fails for him - it's understandable and I don't sympathise with him, but even yet he has some contingencies in place - securitrons still run, his factories still stand, on the off-chance, somebody could take over, even if Bobby H believed himself irreplaceable. If chief Hanlon is spared, in Independent or House ending slide he is shown returning to NCR running for Senate: NCR's political system canonically outlives loss of Hoover Dam, even if Kimball's political career or actual life doesn't. For the Legion, both Ulysses and Joshua Graham insist that 1) Legion will not last without Caesar and 2) Legion will reach the West Coast and turn on itself. Choosing Legion route at most prevents 1). If I was Caesar looking at Lanius and at the map of Arizona and Texas that Graham didn't have a mind for logistics for, I'd feel I was in a real pickle. I see Legion's "stability" during the game and all I feel is the "stability" of the the country I live in, tied to the amount of countries it can exploit and repress and to the price of oil. One loss goes a long way when your macho appearance is what you rely on we found out, the hard way.

Amazing Job T.J. Please keep them coming also I’ll buy you book it looks good also can I ask you something if I may

interesting take. i thought I'd go legion my forst run of fnv cuz i wanted to get as close to mad max madness as i could and the khans were a sidefaction. and then i was confronted with a cesar who made at least a bit of sense. things are not unarguably worse off for everyone under the Legion at all, since they seem to be the most capable at establishing a Machiavellian peace. there are traders who value the safety of the legion territory and far from everyone is being enslaved. from that perspective the legion provides an environment in which a certain amount of people will be able to flourish. in the end i still think the Legion is morally bankrupt because of its methods and in the end they have no clear path of capable succession after cesars very forseeable death

More videos, more videos, more videos

You make GREAT points T.J. However... no lol I do wish they had more time to flesh out The Legion to have a player twist their own narrative to believe they were doing the right thing...not the good thing, but the right thing for society

Ave

I prefer an independant New Vegas and I usually equip Boone with the all american rifle, a lot of rounds and a NCR ranger combat armor. After that I let him go after the legion. I prefer the independant way, I am not a tool for any tyrant 🤷

I support the Legion because sometimes you people need a strong government to lead them, and NCR is not the answer.

U can speed run within 45 min if u do Cesar's quest line seen it b4

Slavery naw im good on that

Caesar choice best choice. TND: total NCR death

I couldn't help but laugh at the liberal arts Legion from The Frontier. Gonna be made canon in season 2 of Fallout Prime, I just know it.

Want to side with the legion but it makes me nervous eving thinking about it.

Nope i don't like raiders who dresses up in skirts

Legion is a worse version of Gengis Khan and his horde, good for the longterm, but bad in the short-term.

A mix of high brow intellectualism with low brow religiosity and violence-- beautiful.

Ceasar didn't enslave anyone who didn't want to be a slave. Ceasar got the caravan roads safe guarded, even Cass will tell the player. Ceasar did nothing wrong

How can you call it a great faction and yet not spell Caesar correctly? We’re not talking about salads here

I felt like there should be more content about the legion . That and the game crashing ruining your whole play through

Source for the Outro Music?

Good video 👍🏻

Ave true to Caesar.

They don't make bad boy factions like they used to. Unapologetic female legion agent 4lyfe.

Aside from the time I sided with them for the achievements I always kill the Legion.

Ok,ok, Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ... what has the legion ever done for us? -Easy Pete

The legion is gay I mean they were skirts do I really need to go on? The ENCLAVE are better were’s the legion’s POWER ARMOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never liked the Legion. Not that I have a problem with their values in the context of the setting, I just don't like how they are a group of brainwashed children led by someone who isn't a warrior and treats his people like cannon fodder. Now, if there was a faction with a cast system of warriors and subjects and the warriors would have special privileges and they'd elect leaders from amongst themselves, I'd be sold. But maybe that would be feudalism/elective monarchy

At least the caravans run on time

Say sike right now

Hail Caesar

cesars legion is soo effective thanks to only,whitout him there just a bunch of dudes whit pointy sticks

Slavery. That is all.

i wish people threw out their bias when making videos about the legion. i like this video but it could be way more correct.

Nothing about Me is altruistic lmao

I always wanted to join raider faction in fallout. Legion is the closest to that, while slavers from fo3 were cool and all they lacked organization and institute in fo4 was too... sciency? Who cares about speaking tin cans, guns and blood is where the fun is

Ave, true to Caesar