The Lives of Civilians within Caesar's Legion 

"if youre already living in a wasteland, it might as well be peaceful" very well said

I like how this guy thought that he was beating this horse to death by making legion videos but they were so popular that he decided to continue making legion videos

It's such a shame that they didn't get the time to flesh out the Legion more, in game they're not much more than generic bad guys, this is why I think they should have left Ulysses as a Legion companion and not cut him from the game for the DLC, he could have added a lot of depth to the faction.

Similarities of the Minutemen and Legion: •Both LARP as historical warriors •Both follow an unelected military leader •Both promise peace and stability in exchange for joining said group and paying for protection •Both hold a strong anti-raider/tribal view Differences: The legion enslaves raiders and tribals while the minutemen outright kill them.

It’s interesting to note Raul is also fine with the NCR taking over. After seeing so much chaos and pointless cruelty over his life he’s fine with any group cleaning it up. It would be interesting to see him and Arcade debate about an independent Vegas.

Old World Blues mod for HOI 4 has taken me from being mildly interested in Fallout, to being completely obsessed. Thank you for fueling my addiction

They should make a mod where you can go east. See all the legion territories and everything. Like Denver which is apparently overrun with wild dogs.

I’m glad that you acknowledged that people view the Legion from the comfort of their gaming chairs. I would happily give crops to the army that kills 20 foot tall lizards with razors for hands, walking radioactive corpses that reek of death, and gangs of sadistic cannibals.

I also get the feeling that, like the Roman Empire itself, the settlements and civilized people of Legion lands also benefit from slave labor. It’d be quite the fitting punishment for the Legion to turn raiders who attacked a settlement into worker slaves for a settlement if it meant increasing production. We even have some evidence to back this up given the whole Office of slavery in the Legion (though why Caesar decided to have it ruled by a consul still confuses me).

It's nice getting to hear about the areas you don't see in-game.

Theres a whole bunch of people that outright denied the existance of Leagion Civilians to the point of saying cut Legion towns and the survival guide were defunct because only Legion traders and Legionaries appeared in the game.

The settlements in Fallout 4 join you out of choice and the only reason it doesn't seem like a choice are because Bethesda suck/lazy at writing. It's heavily implied that settlements joining the Minutemen are doing so out of choice. This is contrary to the Brotherhood of Steel who acquire settlements more as a conquest, similar to the Legion.

Reading Legion lore made me realize that Caesar is using the legion like The Emperor of Mankind was using the Thunder Warriors. Once they finished their job (conquering Earth) they would be replaced by Space Marines. Once the Legion finished conquering the west, Caesar would have changed the model. Instead of a brutal, romanesque fighting force there would be something different.

For any legion playthroughs honest hearts is your best friend! Get asssss many Xander root and broc flower as you can grab there get long haul perks etc etc if you need but the health poultices you can make afterward are soooooo worth it honestly health poultices are op as shit and better than stimpacks and can be stacked with any other food healing items like desert dessert or caravan lunches. Edit: also legion has the best safe house reward. Get the safe house key from Lucius in Caesar’s tent when you are ‘liked’ by the legion. Go to the safe house and Veteran Atticus will give you 2 stealth boys once every 2-3 days. Thank me later it’s unlimited stealth boys for legion playthroughs that’s a god send

The Legion sounds a lot like the Mongol Empire. The Mongols fully subjugated and conscripted other Steppe Nomads into their armies. For the more civilized peoples living in cities and tending farms the choice was be annihilated, or submit to Mongol rule which basically amounted to keep the peace and pay tribute otherwise do whatever you want. The Mongols also maintained peace within their Empire and the roads were famously some of the safest within the Mongol Empire. The Legion effectively subjugated the tribals and conscripted them into their armies, but for the towns and settlements they seemed to have largely been left alone with the caveat they don't cause trouble for the Legion, pay tribute and fullfill the odd Legion request. If they oppose the Legion in anyway well that settlement is not going to be on the map for very long. Also Legion territory is often lauded as some of the safest land in the wastes. Look at Primm in one ending the Legion moves in, but they don't massacre, pillage and enslave the populace. They basically take control of security and for the most part let the towns people live their lives as before.

I recently finished a book called Guns, Germs, and Steel. Among other things, the book describes the sizes of cultural groups and by extension the many tribes that make up those groups and how they 'advance' through technological stages. While reading this book I had the thought "How big is Caesar's Legion really?" If you think about it the phrase "Conqueror of 87 tribes" sounds impressive until you think about how big a tribe really is, if it's 87 individual tribes then that would put the Legion at roughly 5000-8000 troops, but also considering the Legions harsh recruitment standards that number shrinks to about 1500. Or do they mean 87 cultural groups, in which case (going by original-timeline numbers i.e Navajo, Cree, Ojibway cultural groups, so this estimate is already waaaaay off) the Legions size would be closer to 70000. Plus Caesar states that the Legion has cities of it's own, and the way that Raul and Dale Barton describe Legion towns and settlements it sounds more like each town and city in Legion territory operates more like vassal city-states and possibly even satrapies, where in exchange for protection these settlements offer production and resources to the Legion. I theorize it would work as such: the Legion capture slaves, those slaves are sold to their vassal states, those vassals then use the slave labour to produce food and other essentials for themselves and then the Legion takes say 50% as tribute. I think a deep dive exploring how big the Legion actually is (in terms of population and military capacity) would be a very interesting video. Keep up the great work man, love your videos

If they ever do a remake of New Vegas I really hope they let us see more of the Legion. Maybe a town that's under their control. Have a few civilians actually say Caesar is harsh but he keeps them safe. Have Caesar describe his plans to emulate the civilian side of ancient Rome too in addition to the military side.

Ted Gunderson is a prime example of where the NCR was heading.

I think its worth noting that the legion can controll their terratories where as the NCR is strechted thin in its own raiders/gangs 150 years after fallout 1 still are active.

Caesar’s Legion in NV reminds me of the ancient Assyrian Empire. While their societies are both seen as ruthless, we need to look inversely at the fact that it took such harshness to bring territories under the yolk of empire. Canonically it’d be awesome if Caesar’s Legion wins, we could hypothetically see the rise of a Persian empire, an empire just as tough, but was more tolerant and who’d rather make a deal than fight a war.

Amazing how we still get content from this masterpiece

The trader mentions in the legion camp there’s no raiders in the legion held areas and there fine with you so as long as you don’t do drink or drugs.

I think another thing you have to consider when you think of the legion as a bunch of people who traded freedom for safety is that life in the wasteland isn't exactly free with the very tangible threat of raiders and mutants constantly looming over you. You could say that it's preferable to slavery but not everyone is a protagonist with a rocket launcher and would rather just put up with Caesar than chance it in the wasteland

An ironic note I've seen no one else pick up on is that the NCR's inability to translate its taxes into security is indirectly responsible for the legion existing. The chain of events leading to that was when Edward Sallow's father was killed by raiders when he was 2. Hooah hooah rangers nothing, man; if they'd done their jobs, Ed's mom would've never had to work for the Followers, and he'd never go on his ill fated journey that led to his becoming Caesar. Cue Palpatine "ironic" clip. Works as an unspoken motivation for making his faction literally the safest expanse of territory in the setting.

The Legion's philosophy of war and culture is literally "Might makes Right". By far the Legion are one of my favourite Factions in all of Fallout, despite their admittedly woeful under-development in New Vegas.

Always wanted to watch this kind of video, thank you for making it.

For those who haven't done a lot of looking into Caesars Legion, I'll try to call attention to some important points most people aren't aware of. First let's start with the man behind it all: Caesar isn't merely the leader some raider army, he grew up among the Followers of the Apocalypse (if you don't know who they are, I suggest taking a minute to familiarize yourself), thus receiving a topnotch education by any standard of the wasteland. In their extensive libraries (yes, the Followers have those) he would read tirelessly on the subjects of history, philosophy, psychology, politics/statecraft, and yes, warfare. Caesar is easily a contender for the most educated and intelligent man in the wasteland, comparable to Mr House, the man is a certified genius. Next up, the Legion and it's purpose: The Legion is comprised of many different tribes (keep in mind that the NCR and BoS are also tribes), the individuals have had their past loyalties and grudges are swept aside, replaced with loyalty to the Legion, it's ethos and it's leader. This organization was built from the ground up by Caesar to forge men into steel, it has a strict hierarchy but is also strictly a meritocracy, Legionaries have a lot of potential for upward mobility if they demonstrate drive, resourcefulness, and capabilities that set them apart from the rank & file. All actions are a means to an end, this also applies to Legion itself. It isn't meant to remain as is indefinitely, but to serve a purpose, and once that purpose is achieved, it will change. The end for the Legion is to tame the wasteland and bring tribes of the West under one banner, ending perpetual conflict and creating an environment where a real civilization can actually grow. The Legion is the means to that end. Conquering the NCR (their largest adversary and the embodiment of repeating mistakes of the past) is the last step to accomplishing the goal laid out by Caesar himself, the conflict between thesis and antithesis to achieve synthesis (a gross oversimplification). Once the NCR is removed, with no comparable external threat to their stability, the Legion will then be able to shift emphasis away from martial might, to focus more on infrastructure, government and culture, utilizing the resources of the NCR to those ends as well. I can go on further, but for the time being, it's approaching midnight and I'm pretty tired.

Casar's Legion is barbaric for our world, but makes sense in the world of Fallout.

Another outstanding video, you’ve become a favourite RU-vidr and I look forward to each of your videos!

A significant aspect of *how* the legion is able to protect their people is often overlooked imo. In essence, the Legion is an upscaled raider gang. The safety for the Legion's inhabitants comes from them not being on the receiving end of this massive raider gang. And it's notable how much of the Legion ending changes if Caesar does die.

I always look forward to uploads from you

I have to say this is the first video that has made me think about the Legion from the perspective of a wastelander in the Legion. A great video 🤌

another great video. as others have pointed out already, that ending line is wonderfully put.

Ave true to courier!

Nice video, didn't knew about the civilian structure or heard of it, good to know people still loves this game and I don't know why there isn't a special or legendary edition... reminds me of a certain game...

There are actually people who have never played a legion run because they think they are taking some moral high ground lol

I like videos like these cause while I believe the Legion isn't the best ending and are evil, they're more than just the average bad guy. They're a faction that has reasons for their brutality and methods, plus they have pros too. Really NCR and Legion are both cool factions. The only "bad" factions are The Railroad, and for some The Institute, but even the Institute has cool things, like their underground bunker filled with advanced tech, and other things. The Railroad is only cool cause they're like undercover agents and it ends there.

As someone who, since playing the game, picked up Latin over the quarantine...these pronunciations are super refreshing, upon returning to the Mohave. Now if we could only get a Latin Big Iron version for the old Legion playthrough

First time since I started watching that I saw a new upload. Legitimately made me go yeahboiiiiiiiiii!

“Aight, just send raw supplies and your Firstborn son to serve in the Military and we’ll keep the Raiders in check” This is pretty much just the Legion’s Infrastructure

It's beyond amazing that we still talk, debate and enjoy a game that's over 10 years old at this point. It really shows just how Bethesda failed to understand what made Fallout a great series in the first place. And sadly, now it's known as a joke and failure amongst gamers. Thankfully, NV still props it up.

I've always sided with the NCR but now after watching this I'm going to do a Legion playthrough now.

Great Video True to Caesar

Really good piece, thanks very much!

Use this as a: Obsidian should do a remaster of Fallout New vegas and add everything that had to get cut: Button.

I feel like we only got to see an advancing Legion in NCR territory. I'd love an environment were you're in Legion territory, watching the NCR advance through. Legion civilians are very appreciative of Caesar and his Legion, Arizona was meant to be a hell Scape before he came along.

I love how the whole Caravan argument with Caesar’s Legion he like the apocalyptic equivalent of “well at least the trains run on time” excuse people make for fascism

Great video man

I enjoyed the video, as I was always curious as to how the legion 'ruled' over their specific territories.

Fallout New Vegas has shown me there is no such thing as good nor evil. It shows shows how far humanity is willing to go for power. Shows the different shades of gray of reality. There is no right or wrong there is only the ability to choose.

There's a few things that legitimize criticisms of the Legion for me. - The real America's Wild West was filled with people protecting themselves and founding cities with no oversight or aid from their federal government. - Caesar's staunchest supporters admit that their entire society is at risk of devouring itself, including the people currently being protected. - Caesar himself is aiming for some kind of different society through Hegelian Dialectics, so even he doesn't seem to think the Legion's current MO is how people should live. - Fallout's America and China similarly limited their citizens' say in their lives and destroyed those citizens through a combination of chasing resources and resorting to nuclear weapons when they seemingly got desperate (or whatever their reasoning was, not that the series wants to reveal it). Caesar's pursuit of Hoover Dam and Las Vegas are said to be consuming more than they can put out and fueled by his dreams rather than real benefits to the Legion; he may not have missiles to fire (nor would he want to), but he DOES have a lot of humans to throw at his problems and weaponizing ones own citizens was already done by the real-world Germany and Japan when they had considerably more technology to work with than the Legion does. The Midwest and East Coast probably won't see cannibalization unless the entire Legion collapses, but the West Coast is prime for any and all consequences.

Nice. Makes me want to do another Legion playthrough

I do really wish all the cut Legion content stayed in, could you imagine striking up a deal with the Brotherhood and see Lanius in power armor

California Delenda Est

Thanks for the video

Love your videos

Ave, true to Caesar!

On your next video u should talk about the war between Caesar's Legion and the Nevada Desert Rangers

Very cool video

I'm so glad you make these Legion videos. There is so much misinformation and straight-up lies about the Legion on the internet, and it's nice to see this amazing faction get the justice it deserves.

I believe the main thing that makes New Vegas factions compelling is that we can actually imagine them existing in the real world

5:39 I don't believe that in the slightest to where it seems like a plot hole if that's the case in practice. The Legion winds-up their soldiers to be incredibly aggressive and to respect position more than anything. The problem with having punishment for everything be death, you find, is that it doesn't actually make people not do those things. It just makes it so if they do commit a crime like that, they'll go to any length to hide it because it's either that, where you possibly live, or being humiliated and murdered in a show of force. You get diminishing returns in terms of leverage when your baseline for the person you're punishing starts with them being dead regardless. With how much control the Legion has over their population, how rural a lot the wasteland is, how inconsistent long-distance communication is, and how subjects have no guaranteed rights, if you're a Legion officer you're in the perfect position to do something like that especially if you've already *done* a crime.

In Caesars legion you could die for someone else's actions let's not forget the deciamato or whatever where a full tenth of the squad is killed by the other nine tenths. It may be orderly but it's still savagery. Also I can't believe the legion wouldn't manipulate their own people in desperation. Also we see the bravado in Caesar as he pretends to be okay with his constant migraines you even hear some of his own soldiers mention the inconvenience it brings. Caesar may follow his rules normally but there's nothing to keep him in check.

Also Caesar pays ultra fucking well. Caesars favor is so fucking good, NCR pay is so shit you might as well be doing it for free

Great video! I wish the legion was fleshed out more... If fallout 5 takes place in the west, I would like to see at least a part of the map under legion rule, or some sort of relatively intact remnant of the legion.

You should do a video like this on the Pitt, and how life works there.

Hope for a second spinoff with legion in it

One thing legion haters don't seem to grasp in the people in legion territory didn't trade freedom for security, they traded uncertainty for security. You can't build a life if you are constantly looking over your shoulder, you can't make long term plans if it's likely they will be quickly smashed. Order isn't an antithesis to Freedom, it's a prerequisite because without order there is no freedom only chaos. Legion rule is objectively better than chaos, whether it's better than living under the NCR or house is based entirely on what you consider to be valuable in life. The legion partakes in many brutal acts, but never for their own sake, all the ugly things the legion does are toward this goal of order and growth. When you meet Vulpes, he doesn't deny that they committed an atrocity, a "crime" as some would call it. But he justifies it by showcasing the treacherous and selfish nature of Nipton. Despite being the NCRs foe he chastizes the people of the town for turning against their own for the sake of self enrichment. As well as how their selfishness allowed them to watch their community die for the slim chance that they would be spared. The legion is all big picture, there actions can only be called evil if you only look at the surface. They are a young state in momentum, can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and all that. The key difference between the atrocities the legion commits and those of other factions is the lack of hypocrisy, they know that much of what they do is abhorrent but they justify it with the goals that they've already seen work which vindicates their brutality. The NCR isn't any less brutal just more decentralized and hypocritical. And when they do take the high horse it generally results in just as much human suffering, just in more subtle and deniable ways that they absolve themselves of blame. Tldr: Legion based

NCR doesn't give you much respect or place to climb up in their society meanwhile Caesar grooms you to be his successor and even mints a gold coin in your honor. Talk about respect.

Legion lore video YES

Very interesting

Let’s not forget the elephant in the room when it comes to the Legion. I find it extremely difficult to justify the treatment of women as second class citizens, let alone slaves. If we’re talking about enslavement of raider gangs, then that’s not so bad, but still kinda shitty.

Well, this makes legion seem way less evil than in the game. Kinda want to start a new game and go legion for the first time now.

the Legion is still a better choice than the NCR to me

Your point about the citizens of the Legion accepting enslavement because the frontier was so brutal doesn't make much sense. In early Fallout 1 Shady Sands was beset on all fronts by raiders but they managed to establish a somewhat comfortable society without resorting to facism, crucification and slavery.

the legion should have a system in place to allow slaves to work themselves into a higher position after a certain time, where they are then considered a "civillian" like the ones who aren't already slaves be a loyalist and you reap the benefits this would make the legion seem even more like a logical choice for people in the wasteland

"The East had no such messiah." Hear me out. A prequel to New Vegas where you play as a young Edward Sallow and experience the founding of the Legion firsthand would be pretty cool if handled well.

You should do a video on the DUST mod story. It would be interesting to see how it faction reacts to the tunneler invasion from the divide predicted by Ulysses.

Proud to be an Arizonan True to Caesar!

Does the Legion have a codified socioeconomic system? For example, does it have a planned economy or a market economy, a centralized economy or a decentralized economy? It doesn't seem like the Legion directly involves itself in the economic dealings of its subjects, other than occasionally asking for tributes. I imagine the Legion territory's economic system is something like syndicalistic distributism.

Interesting to note that the legion was in its prime in FNV, but what would happen if the empire itself became too big? It'd be like the roman empire's own story.

Played Legion through my first playthrough and not a single faction felt right afterwards. Ave, true to Caesar.

Here's what most people who hate The Legion miss when they talk to Raul. Raul talks about living in Arizona but notice that he never said The Legion enslaved or tried to kill him. If The Legion was so bad why didn't they exterminate Raul or Tabitha?

Legion apologia detected

Ave true to Caesar!

Caesar’s legion reminds me of United Cities from Kenshi. UC is the most prosperous faction in the game but if you start attacking the slave farms and mines their economy essentially collapses, and their soldiers become malnourished.

I do take issue with the NCR side of the map. It’s not mentioned what happen to San Francisco and given how mountainous the Coastal Range is, the Shi could have easily kept the coastal areas independent. But I don’t really expect people who don’t live in Northern California to know that.

legion chads reign supreme

Would the Legion employ mercenaries from the towns they control? If Arizona was as bad as Raul said then there had to at least be some down right hardened guys willing to guard caravans and protect towns. I don't think the Legion want to let that talent go to waste but now that they're subjects, they can't really conscript them since they don't extort their civvies. So it wouldn't be that big of a leap in logic to assume that they would hire them for specific purposes.

"it's important to know subjects are not slaves" (all while woman forcefully carries a boulder on her back up a steep hill for majority of the day)

The legion is by far the most interesting faction in Fallout. Not just bland bad guys, they operate under a widely followed and enforced code. NCR is boring good guys with no real theme.

0:54 i think had a better map if you use hoi4 owb late game legion(without the ncr.) that seems me accurte the size of the legion.

This puts so much nuance on the Legion. I think in light of this information you could absolutely argue them as a moral equal to the NCR in more important ways

Please do the other factions, I have been waiting on a creator to do a video like this

That's how Tributary system was implemented under Caesar's territory. Those who are tribals were assimilated, others like valuable trading settlements were spared but went under as tributes to prevent the fate.

FNVs lore and story blows every other fallout out of the water no doubt about it

4:45 "a bunch of people would be willing to side with the legion and give away their freedom for protection especially when the alternative is worse". Fallout New Vegas is one of the best written and developed video games on the planet, you may think this is simple dialogue and may judge it through a black and white lense, but it isn't, it's a grey area, the world building is beautifully done, just imagine if the devs were given more time and funding, maybe even a remake in today's time would be awesome. Such a Philosophical Video Game. 7:41 you have just Described the problem of Presentism.

Would it be accurate, then, to say the Legion's economy is one of serfdom? Do the Legion's subjects actually own their own lands or are they property of the Legion's warlords?

Salve True to Caesar! Vale

I always thought that the legion is far more interesting then the ncr, but it’s a shame that such great faction probably wouldn’t be able to hold itself together for long because of legions reliance on Caesar, like Marcus said in jacobstown