Ironically followed 76 is set in the perfect time for all this shit to be happening of course there's raiders just 20 years after the bombs fell a lot of them were probably alive in the pre-war era.
@@klaykid117 The raider faction and subsequent sub-factions in 76 were formed for the most part by the rich customers that survived in the Whitespring resort for like a year after the bombs fell, before the robots basically kicked them out. Years later, after all of them are killed or driven out of Appalachia by the scorched plague, one of the sub factions returns (the try-hards, they're the ones in the Wastelanders DLC) so yeah they're pre-war people for the most part. In fact during one of Rose's quests we learn about the pre-war life of the couple in charge of the Cutthroats faction, who used to be a business executive and his occasional lover. I really wish the story we got to play in 76 was actually the story from the time the bombs fall of shortly after and all through the events of how the factions were formed and the scorched plague killed or drove them all out of Appalachia.
I'm surprised that when talking about the gunners you didn't mention the minutemen, if I remember correctly wasn't it the gunners that destroyed the minutemen? the fact that we could rebuild the minutemen but not get a quest that allowed us to raid the gunner's HQ was really disappointing to me. I mean the fact that the rebuilt minutemen had practically zero interactions with the gunners was disappointing as well.
"Seriously, why does everyone feel the need to document every aspect of their lives, especially the incriminating stuff?" I don't know, that feels more like Bethesda writers were ahead of their time considering what many people will post on social media these days.
It reminds of the South Park game where you have to find evidence of some conspiracy and the guy that has a recording of all the crimes committed says “I’m gonna leave this incriminating evidence here in this room. I’ll just go do something else for awhile then I’ll destroy the tape so we can’t be caught” Or when you were on the alien base, and there were recordings of a guy saying “I’m being chased by aliens, but I’m gonna stop just long enough to leave these recording explaining what’s happening. Hope I don’t get caught because I’m pausing so much!
Actually, the social media aspects of today's society doesn't work in the world that Bethesda created in 4/76. They didn't have a massive social connection through the internet. So all those journal entries were people basically writing about their lives in diaries that nobody else was ever supposed to read.
The talon company could have been a really cool new faction, with a goal of conquering the wasteland and monopolizing the water supply, adding another antagonist to the story instead of just the enclave they could have built specific talon company uniforms and settlements along the road
Personally if I fix FO3, this is how I would rewrite it: - Set Fallout 3 40 years after the Great War. - Reilly's Rangers were formed by the DC National Guard and Army remnants by a General Reilly (who was in charge of Military Operations in/around DC in 2077) who never fled in fear of nuclear war (he considered it counter productive in protecting the city, his soldiers and it's people to hide out in a bunker) The Reilly we know is the Granddaughter, and current General of the Rangers (General Reilly died from radiation poisoning, and the father was assassinated by Talon Company goombahs) Because of their heritage, they focus on rebuilding, even if it means conscripting wastelanders and paying workers with food/water, they are also still enforcing martial law, so any crime above stealing is punishable by execution; fortunately raiders are non-existent in their heartland territories. As an effort for rebuilding, Merchants and traders are taxed, life is relatively safe, but harsh. However the Rangers are at their weakest point due to Young Reilly's lack of age, and wisdom, the fallout of her father's death and growing power of the Talon Company. The Reilly's Rangers do not have a civilian government but rather a military government and represent the old, and classically ideal American government, and would fit in the Auth-Right quadrant. Economically they use Note Scrips backed by food, and clean water the person has bartered in. They also do not tolerate drugs, or alcohol. The Rangers wish to claim Vaults for the purpose of helping rebuild America, stabilize food and farming as well as water. - The Talon Company is an amalgamation of various PMC groups, and security companies that before the Great War were hired by the US Government to help aid security, protect corporate/economic assets and aid in enforcing martial law. Since the Great War they function as a company, people are hired and payed with ammunition reserve-backed paper money, they have interviews (or are just brought in due to nepotism) etcetera. Despite their nefarious origins, the Talon Company produces material, inventions, products, and as a dominant merchant trading house; trade. Economically they are powerful, but their "operators" have a lack of good training, trading it in for better equipment, lack of mercy, and greed. The Talon Company represents the modern, corporate America, and are essentially run by a CEO, not a military commander (though they do have a Chief of Security for that role naturally) Politically they fall into the Libertarian Right quadrant. Civilians live in materiel, but lack security, as Talon territory is home to (benign by outside raider standards) Raider gangs that essentially function as tribute paying racketeers and land-pirates Like the Rangers, Talon civilians are subject to hard working conditions, but more akin to dodgy companies that treat workers like rubbish, and lock them in with threats and shifty contracts. The Talon Company is also interested in claiming vaults for the purpose of retrieving technology, schematics, and trained professionals instead of random wastelanders, they claim these Vaults by force. - There is no FEV, or Super Mutants. Instead of Super Mutants there would be more diverse "screwed up by Radiation mutants" that you would see in movies like A Boy and His Dog, Beneath the Planet of the Apes, etc. These mutants would go extinct by the events of Fallout 1, since their genetic code was so dodgy and corrupted they were unable to breed. - The player would be from a Vault, and would be sent out on a scouting mission to see if the Vault Dwellers are ready to settle the wastelands, they get in a crossfire, get nearly killed, their team dispersed in the wastes and must be found (the data must be retrieved) saved, and wake up in some town a-la Red Dead Redemption. - The Water Purifier is still involved, but the player has no personal part of it, it's basically a plot device that drives the conflict between the two factions; fix it, destroy it, etc to sway the war in either sides favour. James would be repurposed as a survivor of the above mentioned attack attempting to rebuild the purifier, give you the exact location of your vault (your pipboy was corrupted, never given the location, you just never saved the location, whatever) which would lead you to the second half of the game. Later on you can choose to steal your Vault's GECK to repair the purifier (or pass a mighty Science and Repair check, with required items) After it's repaired a big battle happens between the two factions here, either side wins, and the game ends or goes into a Post-Game mode, either way you return to their Vault, and they basically say; see ya dude, you risked our safety, and liberty, don't come back again. Yeah, it uses a lot of call backs to the first game, but generally would be it's own unique story, with it's own themes and story, less egregious and fan-servicey then Fallout 3 turned out.
I really liked fallout 4 gameplay. But the more I played it, the more I realized the world in which I was having fun it was not coherent. - I feel the story with the institute could have been better, I didnt understand their motivations and like the other factions of the game, they are a little flat. - other thing that kinda annoys me its how your companions didnt react about your desicion or the factions you are in. -And finally, the dialogues. Four different ways to say yes
another thing about the institute, the supreme leader is literally your son and he explicitly states that his plan all along was to make you join him and them you both live together happy ever after..... so why the fuck did he kept sending synths to kill you instead of just making direct contact, it just doesn't make sense....... and the companion thing is reaaally unimmersive, funny how NV a game from years back had a better companion immersion in that sense
I honestly wish there was more factions the minor ones had like almost no members like the pillars of the community or the atom cats their kinda stupid
The Institute has no motivation. No seriously, they exists solely to be villains and that is it. As for Father I remain unconvinced that he is your son. There is zero reason for your character to believe the guy who is the boss of the bad guys, especially not right after he tried to trick you. What proof does he offer? According to the rest of the game, not even a DNA test would be sufficient.
The DUMBEST thing I found in Fallout's plot is that absaloutly no one could tell who was a android and how there was a secretive organisation that set up a entire fake outpost and hideout just to make up this psudo-scence psychological test. Just have a x-ray machine, make settlers walk through a EMP field, put a person's hand on top of a bright flashlight to see if there's blood and bone inside, a blood test, like there's SOO many ways to figure out who's machine or organic especially with the technology and building ability in the wasteland but for some reason nobody can figure it out.
The problem? You've got a lead writer who doesen't understand, nor cares to understand the medium he is writing for, and a project lead who just lets him write whatever he wants, because Todd's already got his big house with a Tesla parked out front, he just wants to make his space game and then nope out. He stopped caring long ago. That, in a nutshell, is how we got to where we are now.
@@Grobut81 Todd’s been trying to get the tenth planet made for over 20 years. It was a shitty sloppy script then. I’m expecting star field to be the exact same shit show of a game he was told to “ drop “ then.
@@RU-vidcanfuckagoat You won't hear any disagreement from me there. Hell, all i have to say is "A space game, on the Creation engine...". Now there's a recipe for disaster! Bethesda haven't even managed to add climbable ladders to their engine in the nearly two decades they have been using it, and now it's going to space? Ohh boy.... I am fully expecting Starfield to be another Fo76 situation of "This is the most entertaining game that i never played". The game's going to be terrible, but the coverage will be pure gold. I'm already giddy for the Internet Historians takedown of it.
3 or 4 generations in 100 years, my man, in the post apocalypse ppl won't have time to wait for their late 20s to get busy, they'd be lucky to have late 20s
I guess you could also add that the writing feels hollow.. Meaning that while an interesting faction, person, location, or element is there. It doesn't go beyond that. Like they're just going through a checklist of what to include and then moving on to the next. I guess you could compare to when it's Easter time and you get one of those giant chocolate bunnies. As a kid you're probably excited because you think the whole thing is made out of chocolate. Only to be disappointed instantly, after the first bitet when you realize the thing is paper-thin, hollow, and doesn't really taste that great.
You know something i really like in your channel? Is that you actually have an opinion that isn't "obisidia gud betheda bad" you talk about what you like in the game and what you don't like, and actually adimits when bethesda does good insted of shitting all over it like 99% of the community, and i hope you become a bigger name in the community soon.
My goal is to be unbiased in my videos. I do have them, of course everyone does. But there are plenty of things I can enjoy from each title. "Being objective in something so subjective" is probably a way to describe it, though it makes no sense. Still, just bashing or praising a segment isn't helpful. Also, alienating a side of the fanbase doesn't sound like it'd do good for my channel.
@@GamesTwiceOver still, i felt like you had a stronger opinion than the others because you actually talked about the subject withnot bashing it for 1 hour straight like others do, maybe i'm so used to see people making generic hatefull comments that an more neutral one looks different. I also wished more people in this community had this mentality you have about not just bashing or praising a segment, because many fallout channels and fallout fans do exactually that all the time, and they are so toxic when you disagree that i almoust left the community for good, like people making gigant texts of hate speech just because i said i disliked one character. Anyway, what i'm saying is that i really liked your channel because you aren't like that part of the fandom, and that's something i really missed.
@@Matt-td8xw Well, stick around and I can will more content that takes the neutral path. Also the algorithm has been pretty nice to me, lately (knock on wood and all that), so maybe I can help a few others chillax a bit. I know I can't change the minds of most, but maybe a handful.
Yeah, if it wasnt for Bethesda and Fallout 3, Obsidian wouldn't have created New Vegas And in of itself, 3 had some cool things as Well, for example some of its weapons and ambients, and even a few unique quests
@@alejandroelluxray5298 There's no way to know who would've picked up the IP and created a new Fallout game had it not been Bethesda making 3. Though New Vegas only exists because of Fallout 3 is fairly accurate. But when thinking how much better it could have been with a good engine instead of the creaky Gamebryo and focusing on outdated console hardware...it's a bit depressing is all. The IP owner/publisher is definitely at fault for engine, release date and platform choices. Better to have some good Fallout along with some not so good instead of none at all at least.
I am so glad to find someone mentioning the oddity about the Gunners. That had actually been bugging me when playing through Fallout 4. I hear about how they're "mercenaries," but if they are, why in the world do they just shoot on sight whenever I encounter them? Who do they ever actually WORK for? As you've specifically noted, the Nuka World gangs got a lot more fleshing-out, and made some more sense, as it was possible to encounter them without "shoot on sight" reactions. I would have liked it better if these "mercs" could have been dealt with: maybe I could bribe them to leave me alone, hire them as cannon fodder, or recruit their assistance for whatever faction I line up with. I spend a lot of caps, and now all the Gunner models go from "hostile" to "neutral," say. Spend even MORE, and I could hire some for my settlements, but their rough attitudes and troublemaking might result in caps on settlement Happiness, etc. That would have been much more interesting. And ditto about the Super Mutants. Super Mutants are really only there, I think, because, "Oh, it's Fallout. We need Brotherhood of Steel and Super Mutants, because those are iconic Fallout." If we ever get Fallout: Australia or Fallout: Antarctica, or Fallout: THE MOON, mark my words, there will be Brotherhood of Steel AND Super Mutants there -- never mind if it makes the last bit of sense. Granted, the Super Mutant Suicider is MEMORABLE ... but it's not like he really makes much sense. (Oh, how many times they've ended blowing up their own guys, as fellow "regular" super mutants haven't the sense to give him wide berth!) The other big thing would definitely be about the passage of time. There are so many times where I felt like some writer forgot that, "Oh yeah, the bombs dropped 200+ years ago." I figure a contributing factor just has to be the sheer number of contributors involved in churning a huge project out in a short span of time -- that some things just didn't face enough editorial scrutiny before going out the door. Anyway, despite my earlier post underlining my one little point of disagreement, I wanted to say that I overall very much enjoyed your video and viewpoints. :)
Thank you for bringing up the gunners. You finally gave me a proper term to use when trying to explain the issues in 4. Like how there is a functioning iron works a water treatment plant and a cannery but you never use any of these things outside 3 side quests. You don't use them to make cheap plentiful food or mass amounts of clean water or better guns armor and ammunition for settlers and the minutemen your building back up. Those are potential life changing resources and would make sense how you could build the commonwealth up into something more. But it gets completely ignored speaking of just the lack of reaction like you could kill every settlement in the game nothing happens no one cares. no one even tries like "survivors" don't try to get revenge or bounties aren't put on you .. Like your actions feel so incredibly removed and any basic idea of realism in terms of fallouts universe also feel removed or very distant.
@@blankpage9277 well I mean there's molten metal in the iron works in those buckets or vats or whatever. You also go their to get a part to make the ytangze sub mobile again. Which implies it still works. The cannery is said to be working given a merchant from vault 81 is there arguing with guy that restored it there's brand new cans sitting around to be filled and so on. So it Works. You actually get to see the water treatment plant work in a side quest for grey garden once you fix it That's what pisses me off about 4 it's just so badly wrote like any sense of in universe realism is ignored. Like would the minutemen or the BOS or even the railroad ignore places that could turn iron steel & lead into guns bullets and armor or a place that makes clean food or water. They wouldn't you know they wouldn't. That would be like the NCR ignoring Hoover dam or the enclave ignoring project purity. These old world relics any one would want especially if they work. But even fallout 3 does in universe realism better than 4. I'm not mentioning new Vegas cause that's been done to death. The Pitt the queen's gambit steamboat the robco factory and so many other places.
The CPG should have been an option for the player to recreate in fallout 4. The Minutemen would have been great in that development which the Minutemen were extremely underdeveloped sadly. I would disagree however that the CPG incident really explains why there is a lack of development since the commonwealth had plenty of time to rebuild prior to the incident.
That would have been a really neat quest, going to different settlements and trying to get them to agree with the idea and then organize a meeting and try to make it work. Maybe even get the Gunners to join for a nice change of pace.
Honestly, Fallout4 is a game where the more interesting plot was wrapped up before you even got there. The rise of the institute, multiple groups coming together to form a government, each with their own motives that you could've had some influence on. The massacre of the CPG as an optional ending (should you side with the institute). The minutemen in their prime, seem to make a more engaging faction than what Garvey cobbled together for you to "lead". Maybe they could've been backed by one of the governmental factions of the CPG. The Gunners could've been another faction employed by an opposing faction within the CPG, being in opposition to the minutemen and their backing faction. The institute could've been a faction that wanted to usurp the government, playing turncoat. Backed by another faction within the CPG, using them to usurp the CPG for their own purposes. So much potential for a great game, but it all wrapped up before you awoke. I get what Bethesda was going for, rebuilding the commonwealth. However what that often resulted in, was the sole survivor playing "messiah of the wasteland" instead of letting you make those meaningful choices and having them reflected in game.
@@colonelautumn4169 lol yeah, it makes me think Bethesda might've originally intended to for that route, or something similar. Then decided to follow the current story for whatever reason. Probably Emil trying to "keep it simple" for the sake of lazy writing 😂
The story and events that are told in holo tapes in 76 would have made an amazing single player game to play, the whole dynamic of what will you do after the bombs fall will you help your neighbors or will you be for yourself and see the consequences of your actions. Bethesda just doesn’t do deep thinking on overall story, it’s so much that should have been fleshed out and now that is lost.
I feel like a lot of stuff in fallout 4 started, was made out to be some epic huge world changing thing and then just ends. Idk. I think there should have been more focus on making quality quests and characters instead of 40 more nanosecond quests with characters that everybody forgets immediately.
@@GamesTwiceOver Are you mad at me? I’m sorry if so, but I disagree with ONLY ONE thing. Terminal entries and holotapes. I mean, not all of them, but reading them makes you think about „How did this world look like before the war?”. Though I understand where you’re coming from. Supermutants in 4 are pointless, I completely agree. After playing FO4 for 500h, I still can’t understand where did they come from. Same with Gunners, they could just be a raider gang, and nothing’d change. And 76 holotapes (not all, but these related to the main story). They’re just boring. But I actually like 76’s holotapes, but I’d much rather have a singleplayer 76 with more choices. Great video overall, but I still think you’re mad at me (especially this joke in the video lol).
Mad at you? God no. Disagreements are just part of of being in a divisive fanbase. When I say "Ready for disagreements" it's more like I welcome the altering opinions.
I think the biggest difference between New Vegas and Bethesda's games is that Obsidian lays it all out for you in well written dialogue (OWB 45 minute intro being the best example), where as Bethesda either leaves things in the world for you to figure out the stories on your own or leaves them open to interpretation (like how the Quincy Massacre happened and the relevance of the named gunner Clint) both of which makes things feel pointless because most players wont bother reading every terminal or finding every scrap of paper to figure out these stories
I feel if the two could just work together it would be for the best. Obsidian's story telling and creativity and Bethesda's world building and understanding of the game engine.
There's a lot I agree with your video, but on the topic of all the "pointless" journal entries: I personally don't mind them at all, because... 1) They're easy to do. No voice actors. No NPC scripting. No conditional logic. No custom models or graphics or animation. It's just ASCII TEXT. If a level designer spends even a moment imagining what happened at a ruined location and why it's in the state it's in, it would probably be easy to whip up a few imaginary journal entries, purchase orders, etc., to put into a terminal to tell a "story" to fit the scene. I can't imagine it would significantly cut into time spent on the more intensive work. 2) I like the added "fluff." I actually like to get a sense that a location isn't just a random jumble of recycled models, and that there might be some sort of "story" to it. It adds to the "immersion," what there is of it. I've enjoyed digging through every last journal entry, tape recording, etc., since old FPS-with-RPG-elements games like System Shock 2. If it's not your cup o' tea, at least I think it's a very inobtrusive detail that can be easily skipped over by more impatient players. Any /important/ plot elements get spelled out in spoken dialogue.
I always felt the Pre war stuff in terms of wasters made sense for people who popped out of vaults 60ish years prior. So the oldest member that left the vault could be first grandpa, and while they have been in the vault for 200 years, you figure they had nothing to talk about but, pre war stories past down generations. "Why can't we leave the vault dad?" "Heard of the great war?" so it would be on the minds of new wasteland vault dwellers. A generation or 2 growing up in the wastes will lead to them seeing that as normal.
Fire Emil/demote him to a position like he was in when he did the Dark Brotherhood quest and/or hire a competent lead writer that understands Shandification. Problem solved. Yes it is that simple.
For me it’s all the damned family focus. I never got along with my family so I hate someone trying to get me to care about a family as opposed to just letting me be what ever character I want to play.
the pre war terminals and notes are the only way to tell the story of the fallout world BEFORE the bombs, when you play fallout the stories you discover exist in one of 2 times and both of them are interesting asf
And they build up the world more than any other form of storytelling in fallout imo, they are snippets of life that cause you to gradually build a subconscious picture of the world before, which (combined with your mental image of the present world) allows you to plot the trajectory of 200 years of the wasteland.
I think the partial point of this video was that we don't really _need_ that much pre-war storytelling now -- Fallout 2 especially barely mentions the pre-war world. It's not that finding about what happened in vaults etc is bad, it's just the incessant personal journals that everyone apparently kept etc.
The problem I have with the talking. Take becoming the over boss, going to the shop threatening the shop keepers lives. Next sentence is you asking super nice if you could look at what they have. So my problem is, your good and don't question why because its not important. It would have been fun to become a real raider. You walk past one saying he won't fallow the new over boss and bla bla bla, who has wanted to shoot him in the face. The second you do everyone gets hostile, even in being a raider your just some goodies tushu who can do no wrong.
It seems to me that world building is treated as a chore that gets in the way of marketing. That is why the supermutants and enclave have to be in every game, even when it doesn't make much sense, the consumer is expecting to see familiar things from previous games and we save time making new assets. Win-win.
Lack of politics/dramas/stuffs that would naturally occurs as people live in the present based on the consequences of the past. This is writing overall. You nailed it. A big portion of the present was removed and not written about. New Vegas is always the golden standard because there are sufficient dramas, everything is written about: past, present, future.
I see your point about the wastelanders yearning for the past and mostly agree but a real world example is how so many people yearned for the lost Roman Empire centuries after it had fallen.
Bethesda tried too hard to please classic fans instead of building upon their own strengths. If they had committed to the potential of the Settlements instead of leaving it half-baked Fallout 4 would've been more well received and at least viewed as a welcome change to the IP.
They would have been much better off going with less emphasis on each nuanced detail of placing ever single light switch, and conduit, and light pole, etc. They spent a lot of time setting up the endless loop of: Clear area, Gather what resources you could carry, Bring to settlement, Build what you can...start loop over. In the end, the settlement building got us, nowhere. It really didn't effect the game much, and had next to no effect on the plot. It could have been it's own game, but they crammed pointless settlement grinding on top of the poorly done shoot-and-loot nature of their combat system. 4 was much like having 2-3 games worth of separate concepts, that they never fully developed and just crammed together.
@@renaigh except the have crap AI for combat, the guns looks like crap (I'm a gun nut), the armor looks like crap, and they have waaaay too many settlement items that have to be put together "just so" because their border sensing is also crap. They spent basically no time thinking about how the feats/perks system would effect combat. Combat is a joke even mid-game, late game I didn't even have to try; just walked forward and shot anything I saw. Then, with the legendary system...I have no idea how many times I killed several opponents, and only took some of the ammo, because everything else was garbage.
@@renaigh I guess you're right, the absolutely horrible shoot-and-loot they set up was the "best" part; because everything else in that game was even worse.
There was a comment on a review of New Vegas a few years back I think and it’s always stuck with me as something I despise about Bethesda’s choices for world building… it’s the radio. 3 and especially 4 are focused more on the atom aspect- like there are SO MANY SONGS that sing about 1) The Atom, 2) Rockets 3) less relevant but a good few sex ones for which weirdly enough may be the most relevant ones 4) general violence. NV on the other hand are more relevant to the world, songs of money, lust, patrolling the Mojave dispensing fresh hot justice. Bethesda mounts itself so much to “Oh woe is me the world ended” whereas NV is more “No shit it ended, now grab your gun- NCR is here”. If they leaned more into the chosen PC of 4 to be you know, an actual character instead of an actual character that was hijacked but fights it every turn the “Shit the world ended” works more, but we only get a few mentions of it at the start. It would be cool to see them make one set right after the bombs drop since then them leaning into it makes sense
Talon Company is definitely a missed opportunity. I think rather than make the Gunners, who are just basic enemies in military cosplay, they should've brought Talon back for Fallout 4 and fleshed them out more. It would've been interesting if they were a group who were above the likes of Raiders (and the Gunners, honestly) in the idea that they don't attack on sight, and actually have some sort of game plan for what they want to accomplish. I could see them being this unempathetic group focussed on gain and efficiency. Rolling into settlements and staking claim to them, and killing off any wastelanders who object or get in their way. It'd introduce a good moral conundrum. Talon taking what is not their's from those who built these whoms and cultivated these lands themselves, and removing power from any who held it prior, and using lethal force to do it. But at the same time, what they take becomes integrated into everything else they've taken. Trade routes are opened, supplies become more accessible, these places get protection from well trained and well armed mercs, among other things. Make them joinable and give them their own questline, and you could've had a fresh, new, interesting, Bethesda-made faction that likely would've been well-welcomed into the Fallout universe. It's a bummer.
The thing is acording to a presentation that Todd did in a university at the time that fallout 3 had released so it can be different now but i doubt it, they dont hire just writers they hire quest designers they dont hire peoplw to just write the story and all of those involving elements they hire people that basically multy task, so it kinda excuses the bad writing but not really, its not all bad, true but they need to improve it, they are so good at world building and environmental story telling they just need to hire a small team of writers and i swear that the next Tes, fallout game or Starfield would be the best games ever
@@Duchess_Van_Hoof never mind i actually looked it up and it wad Emil funny enough I already knowed the guy from the noclip documentary, he as major problems in his work but maybe he can evolve i hope
My thought on how people always take about the Great War all the time is based pretty realistically because it's what caused their everyday lives to be as they know it. For example, people still so often talk about WW2 and I think 100 years from now unless we top it and have a new one to talk about, we're gonna talk about it for a long time, and in context for fallout, their war was more life changing (even for those who were born 200 years later)
idk I think nowadays it's only obnoxious old people and nationalists who bring up WW2 to try and appeal to some kind of national spirit, nobody ever _seriously_ talks about it in the way people talk about the war in Fallout
I did go in knowing it'd be the controversial take. Of course, I'm glad people are just "I disagree but you do you" rather than "Wow, you're dumb" or something.
@@GamesTwiceOver You did a good job making it clear that you were fine with people disagreeing, which is pretty much the opposite of what some other fallout critique videos do. That goes a long way in making people like you. I'd also like to add that I quite appreciate you judging Bethesda on their own merits instead of comparing to Obsidian or Interplay. Bethesda is a company with a unique way of doing things and they will never be like other game companies. Critiques like yours help show how Bethesda can be the best version of themselves, which I think is much more useful than being an inferior version of someone else
@@kdude2704 Of course. I'm not saying lessons should not be learned from Obsidian or Interplay. (Original devs and all.) Plus I think writers and, hell, creators of all stripes pull from each other anyway. But I think going for a 1:1 recreation would feel inauthentic. Bethesda should adapt ideas rather than copying them. And I honestly feel they did do a number of adapting with 4.
@@GamesTwiceOver Oh yes, I didn't mean to say old Fallout was obsolete or anything, it should be learned from and respected by Bethesda for sure. Apologies if I sounded too anti-classic Fallout there.
@@kdude2704 Not at all, I didn't mean to imply you sounded anticlassic by any means. I just want to say I do think there's many ways to adapt elements to one's own style. It also allows experimentation.
One more major issue I have would be tunnel vision. They write out a quest or a location or character with very few considerations for how a myriad of players might respond to it. My example of this at its worst is Nuka world. The storyline is so loaded on how you’ll build up raider settlements and expand their influence and power, and there’s so minimal consideration for the very common possibility of “what if I don’t like raiders? I just spent a whole dang game with my morally good character wiping them off the commonwealth with Preston, and I have zero interest in helping these raiders.” It’s all of this choice on if the player embraces it, but literally just the open season quest which is just kill em all, if you don’t. No choice to resolve it any other way. On the flipside though, Far Harbor was much more well written, and I did feel free to express my own feelings through quest storylines there. Hopefully FO5 is more like that. Because when the players wants are so misaligned from their options, it sucks.
I remember watching a making of Fallout 3, where the developpers were talking about how they had to use their smartphone light to see during a power shortage, and though : "yeah, that's post-apocalyptic shit." Story goes that's how they come up with the idea of the pip-boy as a source of light in dark environnement. I though, it's not a post-apocalyptic experience, at best an apocalyptic experience.
9:41 On this point I actually think that this is a cool concept that Bethesda just does terribly. The idea of people being nostalgic for an era they've never even been born into is actually a pretty common thing in the real world. You see it in many different forms such as the "born in the wrong generation" group, or the sub culture of people who worship ancient cultures such as the greeks or the romans. Obsidian actually tackles this idea in New Vegas, and its ESPECIALLY prominent in the DLCs as a concept they often refer to as "Old world Blues". Caesar created an army based off the roman legion, Ulysses wanted to return to the old world ideas that America was founded on, and in dead money the whole theme of the story is about beginning anew and letting go, (I've heard an interesting fan theory that this was Obsidians way of telling the classic Fallout fanbase to accept that the fallout series is changing.)
I'm English, so witnessing the horrific US literacy standards first hand is eye-opening, to say the least. Certain words imply a pause (ie: or/but/and) yet for some reason are still accompanied by a comma? Starting a sentence with "But" is just laughable. What is the long-term purpose of simplifying English? Why perpetuate idiocy? It seems to suit Bethesda's triple indie, shyster attitude perfectly. Minimum effort for maximum profit.
Interesting addition to your removed point is that the United States civil war was 156 years ago the fact that people never shut up about the pre-war times is like if in 54 years people always talk about the civil war and its ramifications as if they lived through it
In my opinion I think that example actually works to defend Bethesda here. People still argue over whether we should keep statues of Confederate generals, honoring clearly evil individuals, or destroy them and risk history repeating itself. There's still tension between demographics all stemming from the history of slavery. With that in mind it actually seems less weird that people obsess over events that happened long before anyone was born. Since they do it in real life too, as it seems to be human nature to cling to historical and generational grievances.
@@Otakupatriot117 and to top of your point. There are still people that are on both sides of the argument, and still fly confederate flags. And yes, I'm one of them.
Bethesda would rather put teddy bears in funny positions then tell a good story. They talk so much about how they handstakenly place stuff. And items. That's their passion. It's really sad that it's not the factions. The world. The story. It's inconsequential shit.
As a addition to this video. So for logical reasons he did not mention another huge writing flaw: Bethesada writing except for the insitute man base "I quess people are just inherenly indivialistic so they fight eachother so often that they can not wven clean their main base" I could make a clean commonwealth modpack in 1 month or less. Contact my if you want your mod or one that you like in the modpack. Getting that done would surely improve my sense of immersion.
The existence of the super mutant suicide bomber pisses me off as it's the stupidest thing ever added to a games canon for a species that is already shrinking in numbers.
It would have been cool if you could approach a gunner NPC at some type of office or outpost where you could take small jobs (intimidation, escorting) for extra money and xp. You could also hire a few gunners / assaultrons for a set amount of in game hours excluding time spent for fast travel as some extra damage or meat shield, like the armored trolls and hounds in the Skyrim Dawnguard dlc.
It’s weird that people 210 years after the great wars remember it like they went though it, unless it’s a ghoul or someone who was in the enclave, brotherhood or a vault I guess
It's weird how the vault people seem to remember nothing a lot of the time when only like 200 years have gone by. Unless they slaughtered all the elders and raised the kids in a cult there's no way they'd be so ignorant after so few generations have passed.
its kinda hilarious this video was suggested to me today. i have nearly 2000 hours in fallout 4 and only today i was wondering around and heard a gunner yell "you better get out of here" and it didnt immediately start shooting. i still shot it dead in a second but i didnt even realize that them warning you is a mechanic i just thought the Ai was having trouble targeting or something lol
I think you said it well when talking about the Super Mutants, and how they where plastered in everywhere just... because: Bethesda clearly does not know how to further develop the assets it acquired, so it needs to expand into new assets. Fresh enemies will bring with them different, and hopefully interesting, motivations for us to explore.
I feel like Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 both had a good structure, but much of the dialogue and quest design left much to be desired. I do however think that Josh Sawyer and Chris Avellone are really incredible at what they do, and New Vegas was more of a homerun rather than being the standard that all Fallout games are held to. Last I heard, Chris Avellone was working freelance. There's no reason Bethesda couldn't contract him for a future Fallout title. Obsidian and Bethesda are both subsidiaries of Microsoft now too.
Also, more often than not, the player isn't given a dialogue option that is more suitable. 1:40 No Review Process: Dialogue (etc.) was written but there was no process in place where the script was reviewed. Ideas could have been exchanged and the dialogue (etc.) improved. Of course that would certainly add time and cost, so... 4:20 And maybe they could promote you to General and you could be sent on the most tedious missions... by a private. ;D 6:13 Actually for me, the biggest problem with Raiders is their AI. They shoot and kill and *NEVER* loot. Supposedly raiders hit caravans, supposedly. There're even encounters where they try to shake down the player (as do the Gunners) and maybe a farmer or something. But any time you watch raiders (Pirates, etc.), they kill and *NEVER* loot. This AI problem exists in all games that I have played. 12:30 But they were given the same AI as raiders.
I think the reason FO3 was written the way it was, just to give the audience context of what differences between the present and the current world exists in to connect the two histories, or witrhout it, people might think it was just a fantasy world and not an alternative timeline from ours. Or that FO3 was supposed to be in-universe, the characters suffering from the pre-war nostalgia fed to them through the radio proaganda. They could be just clinging to the idea that the pre-war world was better than theirs in pre-war references but exaggerate it or idolize it morso because they're ignorant to it. Its what nostaligia inherently does. 60 years later would have people justrecalling how bad it was when the wrld was ending, but 200 years later would give plausibility to their generation being ignorant enough to just believe it without bias or question. They don't have the PTSD from post-war, but just the pieces they fit together and pre-war ghouls who can varify things. It could be along the same lines as to why some Americans (usually conservatives) who were not born or lived in the 1950s, pretend its the golden age of America prior to whatever cultural shifts they don't like just because they were told it was. The characters in FO3 might being doing that themselves. As well as poverty and detrimnent weould make it much more likely for people to seek escapism due to the stress of reality's conditions. There is even a woman at Arefu bridge that thinks shes a 1950s housewife. Nathan in Megaton also exemplifies tis, as he's delusional about it, while all he knows is just the Enclave Radio propaganda loop.
its fairly obvious that the gunners were supposed to be a lot more than they are and that a MASSIVE amount of what was going to be developed was cut, possibly due to time constraints.
Most modern rpg games have terrible wrighting but that more a problem with how society is to sacred to do anything remotely controversial. Hell the only time slaves are mentioned in fallout 4 are in Nuka world. Synths don't count as slaves it's just shitty political framing the "wrighters" injected into the game along with their cringe self insert fantasy faction (the rail road).
Bethesda’s writers, Emil specifically, don’t understand the importance of a well organized DESIGN DOCUMENT. You need to put everything in order and organized, or you will lose track of your story really quickly. They had many years to work on Fallout 4, but in that game, they made so many mistakes with the story that’s indefensible.
Gameplay direction is also reason to blame why fallout 4 is sucked. It's supposed to be a fish out of water experience but just 10 mins into the game you already killing raiders and DEATHCLAWS with a minigun and power armor. Do fallout 4 have some good parts? Sure I think everyone agree that nick valentine is a good character with alot of missed potential with the kellog stuff
I don't really think the voice acting was the issue, at least in the sense that the actors weren't necessarily the issue. There's a generalized inconsistency of tone with so much of the dialogue in the game across so many characters that I'd lay responsibility squarely at the feet of the VO Director.
I always figured you burned your bridge with the gunners just by throwing your hat in with Preston and the Minutemen, they tend to feel mutually exclusive. That said, it would be neat if you had yet to do so if there were options with the gunners. Sort of like how you can go with the nuka-world raiders and blow off the minutemen entirely.
You know what would be cool for the gunners, Having sharpshooters that can attack you reliably from long distance. That way if you have a sniper rifle you'd have to figure out where they're shooting from and kill them before they can kill you If you don't have a sniper rifle you'd have to stealth or just avoid the places where the sharpshooters have a vantage point.
The unfortunate truth is that even if Obsidian did get a second crack at Fallout, it isn't going to be the same without the people who worked on New Vegas and Bethesda is ultimately the ones to decide the series' future, and considering they seem to think that it's focus should be on looting and shooting rather than making a well written setting and characters to get invested in, the future is looking pretty bleak...
I both disagree, that Bethesda's location storytelling *is* one of their strengths, and agree, that the lives of people who are two centuries dead are pointless to the "current" day. Honestly, one of the best things Bethesda did story-wise was make Fallout 76 take place before Fallout 2. With the setting being the war's immediate aftermath, the people's stories just felt more connected to the world.
The gunner/raider parrelel reminds me of skyrim dragons just being dumb flying lizards, despite the writing acting like theyre these intelligent & cunning creatures
I feel like Talon Company and the Lawmen of fallout 3 should have been fleshed out better. If you had bad karma you would be invited to the talon company and be able to go up in their ranks by doing different actions in their factions like the mages guild and fighters guild in elder scrolls. Same with the law bringers. Only real difference between it and the guilded would be your ability to join would be based on how good or bad you are as a person. Could have made it more dynamic by having if you changed your karma too much you would get kicked out
How to improve Fallout 4s writing: Mute Player mod/Silent Protagonist and enough quest mods to make the "Main Story" just some background noise you can easily ignore. Problem fixed.
I like how in fallout 4 the super mutants where the reason the Commonwealth almost got a Regional power & they feel like their effect on the wasteland is more realistic as people would surly band together when faced with a greater threat than just stay divided. The Persians united the Greek city states against a threat to their way of life (even though the Persians were better people & all). like wise the threat of the Super mutants would unite some group in the capital wasteland to fight against it but we see no signs of that.
the Issue with fallout and elder scrolls writing for me is the main story plots are mediocre at best. They are the best at side quests, Easter eggs and world immersion, which they only mess up then they cut content is a way that messing up other quests.
what I hated most about the gunners is that I cleaned up their hq just like any other poi on the map. no followup, no retribution, nothing. I just killed a few named mobs and that was it, poi cleared, moving on to another poi.
9:42 I understand that this might feel really annoying to some folks, but let's look at an example from modern times: Ireland. Despite the Great Irish Famine happening over 150 years ago (1845) , the memory and tangible effects are still very much present in modern Irish society and memory. It's not that surprising for a lot of people to still mention and complain about the war in Fallout despite it happening 200 years ago when the effects are still so tangible and the memory is hardwired into their brain by parenting.
Honestly I've played fallout 4 a lot and.. I don't think I've ever heard about the cpg? I think it would have been awesome if we could try and work towards that again in game given how far the settlement have come along now
There's a mod that adds to the Gunners. It overhauls them to the point where you can work with them on Contracts if your playing a Merc, hand in bounties and even get a few as basic companions to take with you. Im still playing New Vegas. I only play Fallout 4 after i mod back in all the stuff Bethesda tried to take out.
In defence of the Gunners and Talon company being just fodder for XP, that's their purpose that Bethesda designed for them and given how there are very very little amounts of mods for either faction it would seem that people don't really care about them
If fallout 4 could exist in a alternative universe many problems of fallout 4 could be fixed by only letting the story take place in boston. The game as too many quests to even "mod out" the underdeveloped or inconistensies of just side quests. While fault in major ways, the fallout series are the only post apocalyptic universe i give enough about to invest the time and money to mod the problems out as is realistic.
Not-Fallout 4 and the Abomination that is 76 felt like a whole bunch of non-connected, irrelevant things were more important to Bethesda than the main plot. Their writers put in so much effort to the mini-stories you find exploring, that the main stories became linear. In older games there was a Karma function that made your side quests mean something. 4 and 76, a lot of the side quests were... absolutely pointless other than kill-and-loot gaming. But, they had such a cumbersome loot system, that kill-and-loot because just a grinding chore, rather than being fun. This then leaves us with linear, and rather boring main stories, and a bunch of unconnected side quests that didn't mean anything.
I hate how all of this is fixed with mods, like come on ya aint China, Bethesda. Modders are Bethesda's sweatshop honestly. In fact I think they're feeling it most with Fallout 76 in that regard, where their shortcomings (both story wise in and bug wise, even just fun wise) are all too exposed. Mods have been relied on extensively, almost smugly. I think that's gonna change considering they've been hiring a lot of the bigger mod makers from Nexus and the like. Hopefully with a lot of fresh blood that A) knows the lore through and through in only a way that a creator or fallout-nut could understand and B) has a lot of talent and experience optimizing the Creation Engine, we should see MARKATBLE improvements in Fallout 5 or whatever the fuck its gonna be called. It has me excited because honestly besides the first trilogy of Fallouts, the latest of which isn't considered canon even moreso than the originals which is in a weird state already, Bethesda doesn't have terrible stories. They just cut out a lot of content for politics/time crunch reasons, which isn't excusable in the slightest. Hopefully with the modders they've hired, and extra funding and creative freedom from Microsoft will allow them to not cut as much content, and really release a banger Fallout for the next release.
I wish Bethesda would give raider gangs interesting in the base game. Most raiders in Bethesda games are all the same and have like no variation between them. I can get having some raider groups that would shoot on site but there should also be groups that are similar to the nuka world gangs or paradise falls in fallout 3. Bethesda fallout games have had a distinct lack of interesting minor factions while the major factions have been fairly hit or miss. Factions need to be fleshed out more through the writing as well as through visual storytelling. Reliance on nostalgia I think has led to some issues in Bethesda’s writing. The BOS and Super Mutants have to be everywhere and to some extent the enclave as well. Bethesda has had a hard time writing original factions for new titles. I’ve heard that most people don’t like the railroad, the institute lacks substance and the minutemen felt like they were just added because of the settlement system. I don’t know what Bethesda can do to change this but either hiring better or more writers would probably help.
It’s not because they can’t do good writing, just take Far Harbour as an example. They heard complaints from their fanbase, and so they created in my opinion the bets DLC in the entire franchise. Personally I like the writing of the vanilla game as well, but it’s fair if some don’t.
