this video was amazing! you were so thorough in explaining everything. Ive been WW for less than a year n ow and am in love with it, but of course like most other beginners, I learned the pocket hole method...ugh! I got the festool domino but have been intimidated to use it. This video gives me the confidence! Thank you so much!
OMG! Congratulations on purchasing the domino! Definitely DO NOT be intimidated by it! It is so easy to use and will make your projects go so much better! I can use it primarily online table tops but I also use it on a ton of other stuff including table aprons, just about any type of joinery for sidetables or anywhere where there is a “but joint“ and, of course I always use it on my countertops because it helps them stay perfectly flat. If you are nervous about using it on your table top simply take a couple of cut off‘s or scrap pieces of wood and test it out on those. Trying out a couple of different depths and experimenting a little bit is always a plus. Be my new cost and materials and dominoes to “play around“ is worth 10 times that when you don’t make a mistake on your table project!
@@PMKWoodworking Im just so excited I found you! Im definitely going to be binge watching your channel, and work on making some of the amazing pieces! :)
Finally, someone who use construction lumber without pocket hole screws! The Domino cost more than the table. I know you make a lot of tables & it pays for itself. I will stick with a router, hammer & chisel, maybe a biscuit joiner , if I have a big panel job. Good video.
I normally use poplar, just used Big Box lumber for this video for cost and demonstration purposes. ABSOLUTELY NEVER USE POCKET HOLES FOR TABLE TOPS!!!!! and check with your local lumber yards for better quality lumber. I can actually get rough cut poplar cheaper than Big Box pine. I mill it to final flatness and thickness myself.
@@PMKWoodworking I do the same, minimizing use of screws or nails. My current project is a 10 foot gate using rough cedar 2x4s and 2x6s frame with cedar pickets. I'm using 14mm Sipo Mahogany dominos and epoxy adhesive.
Thanks! I'm going to do a "DIY" version in the future that uses less specialized tools but this is a great process and creates a long lasting table top!
Questions! 1) Do you plan around losing table top width from jointing/planing? What is rule of thumb for how much material you’ll lose per board? 2) You did not joint/plane the top/bottom “face” of the boards, why? 3) Can I use my KREG circular saw track to joint or plane? I do not have a table saw :/ 4) if you did this design without the breadboards, would you “pin” all of the dominoes between the main boards?
lots of good questions! 1) yes, I typically use rough cut lumber and the boards are between 6-10" wide when I start. Joint 1 side and straighten the other parallel and the final width is right around 5.5". Planning ahead for the final width makes the math of purchasing the material much easier. 2) The top and bottom are pretty flat and will be sanded a LOT later. since there were really no "High" spots to make the glue up have any issues I simply assembled it without jointing the top and bottoms, and sand/plane/sand smooth later on. on a more recent table, I actually did a TON more because the boards weren't "Flat" on the top and bottom, so I ended up jointing one side, jointing the bottom, table saw straightening the parallel side, and thickness planing the top, followed by a pass through the drum sander, But I know that's a LOT of equipment that many guys don't have, ad these boars were really flat to start with so i left that process out... But look for that in my upcoming Dining Table Series. 3) Yes you can use the KREG jig to joint, I have never used one, but I have a Festool TS and it is amazing! and I know @fixthisbuildthat swears by his. just make sure your measurements are EXACT! When I straighten and joint using only the track saw, I start by sawing one edge perfectly, then I measure from the new edge to EXACTLY 5.5" and mark each end of the board and set the track against those marks for the most parallel board possible, without a table saw. 4) I typically don't do tables without breadboards, but NO, across the table top I would not pin the tenons, the glue up is actually strong enough on its own, and is made even stronger simply by the addition of the dominoes. You could do it as an aesthetic choice, but its totally arbitrary across the table top itself, IMO. let me know if you have any more questions, and keep an eye out for my upcoming series on building farmhouse tables: the entire process
Either. Typically I drill all the way through because it’s just faster and easier, however, sometimes if I don’t want the peg sticking out the bottom to be sanded off I will mark the depth on my drillbit and only drilled deep enough so it does not come to the other side but does get all the way through the dowel and back into the wood underneath
Great video! thanks for sharing. I use the same method when building my table tops as well, quick question though, I noticed when you were clueing the center domino you also put glue on the table on the left and right of the domino, basically glueing the breadboard end to the table top in those areas. have you run into any trouble with that method? seem like the glue would prevent the top from expanding. Also i'm curious what method of fastner you use to attach the top to the base?
yeah I do spread a little glue on the boards directly next to the center tenon, but ONLY THERE! The short answer is this: The center tenon is fixed therefore creating a solid point in the center of the table. This means that the table no longer expands across the entire top, but out to the left and right from center. As this is now a fixed point, the movement is insignificant compared to the movement that happens as you get farther away from the center, hence the "Floating Tenons" to the left and right. The table is now split into two "Expansion Zones" that are essentially less than half the movement area of the entire table top. The extra glue on the center board allows the tenon to grab the breadboard center a little tighter during clamping and ensures it will hold tight after being pinned in place once dry. This creates a very strong center point with the expansion going OUT to the left and right. as for attachment, I use "Z" clips or tabletop fasteners as they are called with a thin channel cut into the apron on the inside of the table. These can move with the table top within the channel on the sides and through the channel on the tables ends. Get them HERE: amzn.to/2VDOgVt But throw away the tiny screws they come with and use screws appropriately sized for the thickness of your wood!
Nice job man! New subscriber here... I'm doing a table right now with Douglas fir... How thick do you like to have the table top? And were you using 12 or 14 millimeter Domino's for the breadboard ends? Thanks bud
I typically mill my lumber down to around 1.5" depending on the stock i start with and how much straightening/flattening it needs. for example, some good, relatively flat, and straight lumber at 6/4 rough cut will usually yeild about a 4/4 or 5/4 final table top. really warped or twisted stock I wont start with anything less than 8/4 and it still ends up around 6/4 or 5/4. The dominoes are 12mm. for the breadboard ends I use precut 140mm but for the ones in the top I use the long stock and cut it individually to 36mm and drill out a 40mm mortise. Hope that helps!
I don't own a domino but have a question about them. Which setting do you use the most for the mortise width? I understand there are 3 settings from exact fit to loose. Do you ever change your settings based on what you are making?
Curious... newbie here... why only 3 dominoes across the length of the table? I feel like I usually see quite a few more, but maybe I'm mistaken. Also, in another comment you mentioned to never use pocket-holes for tops... why? isn't the joinery more or less there to help hold everything in place for the glue to dry and then the glue does the heavy lifting going forward? Thanks!
Good Questions! as far as the dominoes, there are actually 5 across the width of the table. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZRTVbV33UKg.html I only use 5 because that is all that is really required. I recently started using 6 where two are on the center board and are glued and pinned in place permanently. The two on the left side and the two on the right side are solidly glued into the table top and have an oblong hole in the breadboard end so that the pin can slide allowing for seasonal expansion. Using a softwood like pine or cedar, or a softer hardwood like poplar doesnt really need a TON of support while hardwoods may require one domino in each board. Table thickness is also a factor, mine are usually 6/4 but something like an 8/4 walnut table top may require double the dominoes! Now, POCKET HOLES .... yeeeeeeesh..... MY problem is rather specific, so Im only going to focus on that and not what they ARE good for. TOO MANY mommy bloggers and beginners woodworking sources are teaching that pocket holes are appropriate joinery for table tops. Long story short, THEYRE NOT! It is absolutely infuriating that people are being taught improper technique, and those who are teaching it are making money off of it. Pocket holes in the table top core will not work any better than a simple glue up. in fact the glue up will end up stronger because the boards are being compressed as the glue cures instead of trying to force themselves apart with only the screw threads holding them tight. Now, more importantly the breadboard ends CANNOT be attached with pocket holes precisely because it does not allow for the seasonal movement. I have seen internet plans and popular bloggers claiming it's so "easy" to just glue and screw those breadboard ends on, but...again...wood movement! With either dominoes or mortise and tenon, you will be able to account for the seasonal movement and only secure the very center of the breadboard. In short, Pocket holes are useless (and more importantly, improper technique) in table top construction because they are weak across the core and don't account for seasonal movement to attach the breadboards. If you're still awake after all that, I Hope it makes sense! Thanks for watching!
Just bought the domino DF 500 recently and was wondering if you thought the smaller brother of the two could still be a viable solution to building table tops? Maybe doubling up (stacking) the dominos one above the other? Btw, nothing better than having a Shiba for a shop dog! They’ll lay in and on just about anything 😄
It can be. I know there are adapters you can get so that it will fit the larger bits as well... I think that simply doubling up your dominoes is your best bet for now. Good luck, and have fun learning all the things you can do with that thing! You’re gonna love the results!
RIIIIIIGHT!!! it kills me! I just had a customer yesterday showing me her dining table a friend had built for her. it was beautiful, but splitting right down the middle! she asked if I knew why, and without even hesitating I said, "Pocket Holes" sure enough we flipped it over and there they were... each board joined that way and the breadboards fastened on with 7 pocket holes all filled with wood filler afterwards... I dont want to disparage anyone from trying, but it stinks that so many people are learning the incorrect techniques instead of the proper ones!
@@PMKWoodworking the bigger issue is, the wrong way of doing things are done by people that charge less and customers don't know about wood movement and all they see is how good it looks the day it's finished. Not 2 years later. So the "woodworker" gets away with it all while people doing it right, get undercut and less work because customers go for the cheaper option. Definitely a tough situation for us that sell built projects. There is a time and place for pocket holes. But even then, there is usually a better jointing option.
You think I could get away with biscuits instead of dominos to align the table top boards; seeing as the glue is doing most of the work there anyways. I’d still use dominos for the breadboard ends for strength and wood movement reasons of course.
You could… But why?… Not being snarky, I’ve had the same thought myself… “Why don’t I use my biscuit jointer for all the table top boards, then just use my domino for the bread boards? It’s simple… I have a domino! It’s going to take the same amount of time to cut mortises using the domino as it is to cut them using the biscuit jointer. The difference is that you can purchase pre-cut smaller dominoes yourself or cut them from larger stock pieces, and simply install them between the table top pieces and you’re good! As far as a “timesaver“ you’re actually spending more time using two tools and then just one. It would also depend on the species of wood you are using, and I will always recommend a domino no matter what! If you were using poplar it would be easy enough to use either the biscuits or the dominoes, if you are using pine it is soft enough that it would probably still twist and bow despite the biscuits by the dominoes will keep it in place. If you’re using something like oak or walnut, unless your boards are perfectly straight completely flat and perfectly dry when you’re building your dining table the biscuits will not be able to keep them aligned during the glue up, once again dominoes win. Basically, all that to say you only have to get one tool out and make all of your cuts the techniques are the exact same but the application of the dominoes is much stronger and provides more support than the biscuits ever will. Hence why I used a domino throughout the table top but I use biscuits on smaller projects and for joining smaller panels together. If you’re on a domino… Use the domino! But if you don’t have the money for the domino or the added expense of the dominoes themselves the biscuit joiner is always a great alternative. But why drive a Ford Taurus when you can drive a BMW M6?
Truth hurts! 🤪 But seriously, it is a pretty major problem in this community but there are a lot of people teaching and a lot more people learning the WRONG techniques! (Not saying that FESTOOL DOMINO is the only way to go) but there are many more PROPER techniques that can be utilized that will allow for seasonal wood movement and expansion that quick DIY blogposts about glue and pocket holes will not...🤷🏼♂️ Learning improper woodworking technique is like beating guitar hero then taking that controller to an open mic night and wondering to yourself “what’s wrong? Why doesn’t this work? What am I doing WRONG?!” And then RElearning how to ACTUALLY play guitar!… If you would like to check out a couple other basic techniques that ANY woodworker can do (even mommy bloggers) please feel free to check out my video on 5 Table Top Joinery Techniques ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MS77ogsipws.html
Nope, got a false copyright claim from a scam Account that steals monetization from RU-vid content creators through repetitive false claims of copyright claims from their own “free to use“ music. I got tired of it on this particular video and simply muted the audio for those songs
Goes on about showcasing the "specialized" tools he owns that were "purpose-built" for mass production, then busts out his collection of Ryobi and Ridgid tools.
Probably because he was specifically talking about the festool domino, and TS55... but you GO ON KAREN!😎🤷🏼♀️😂 Tool brand purists are almost as bad as internet trolls... good thing you are both... must feel REAL good about yourself. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🥲
