My reference to the themes about connection, overcoming the darkness, balance and human flaws are not elaborated upon much here because I’ve talked about them in great length in my other videos on the series: ru-vid.com/group/PLf2MkVBhqRMj9Q6XKEDk8_PwrUIQ1keym
Thomas Fernandez Yep! My entire channel is full of character analysis videos. FMAB, HxH, Monster, Fate/Zero, Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Berserk, some MHA, and more. Regarding Re:Zero, I made a 40-minute video on it a couple of years ago where I talked about the characters. I don't have anything to add to that.
Dwarf in the Flask: “What did I do wrong, what should I have done?!” Truth: “... You simply must have seen the answer with your own eyes.” He had eight pairs of them. Every one of his homunculi acquired a piece of the puzzle upon their death. Meaning that if they had all remained part of him, he would have fully understood what he did wrong by the time he reached the Truth. That line is so brilliant.
Jimmy Ichigo Jimmy Ichigo With a final line that cryptic, there’s no such thing. It’s laced with irony. The dwarf in the flask only has one eye. Yet Truth says ‘eyes’ plural. So it can refer both to his human-form, which signifies that his human body should have enabled him to appreciate humanity itself-why else would he have taken that form unless it’s what he wanted to look like? And it can also refer to the fact that every part of himself that saw humanity’s valuable qualities clearly with their own eyes before dying (all the homunculi) were separate from him upon his death. Most notably Greed, who Father tries to absorb into himself to get hold of a philosopher’s stone. Greed acts selflessly for the first time to save Ling, then gets bitten in half by Father and is unable to be consumed. Right when Greed realizes that what he’s always longed for is friends, he disappears into nothingness-and the last thing to disintegrate are his eyes. Father ends the story stripped of all human sins and is thus completely incapable of understanding the value of living a human life. It’s why Ed’s answer of not needing alchemy when he has people in his life he cares about is deemed correct by Truth. If Father had been consumed by Greed, he, ironically enough, would’ve understood the essential lesson that Truth wanted to instill in him: other people have inherent value.
UltimateKyuubiFox I think the irony of father was that he was trying to obtain the impossible which was to be the perfect being someone superior to god Truth knew this and laughed at his attempts as he knew that there is no such thing as perfection. As for his quest for knowledge as Truth said he stole his power and knowledge from others meaning he learned nothing on his own even in the end he didn’t know where he went wrong in his quest for all knowledge like bro said father was selfish
My thoughts on father are "in exchange for one bland main villain, we got 7 incredibly unique and memorable sub-bosses" and is easily worth the trade. In fact you could call it an.... Equivalent Exchange. I'll see myself out.
Yeah. In the beginning, he was scary(not as much as Gluttony, but scary nonetheless.), In his later appearances, he comes off as superior, then Greed weakens him, he loses control of The Truth, then it's rather disgusting to see how weak he is when Edward beats the crap out of him. Then you pity him when he says his last lines: "I only wanted the freedom...to know." Father is many things, but if I had to pick one word to describe him, it would be "hollow." He is nothing but a leather bag, and The Truth knew it.
Father becomes a much better villain when you realize that all the homunculus are parts of his personality. When you think of all of them as one being rather than eight separate ones.
I always said that the most interesting thing about the Dwarf in the Flask was that he _wasn't_ emotionless and that there _were_ tinges of humanity in him. For one thing, I think he genuinely cared about Hohenheim way back when he was a slave. Yes, he was always manipulating the situation in his favor, but at the end, he still called Hohenheim "brother" and he still gave him all those souls for a damn near eternal life. Also, later on, when he finds out Hohenheim has children, he's briefly very affectionate to Edward. The way he pats him on the head and smiles seems very genuine. At least in that small moment.
I am glad that you mentioned that. I think it's also important to remember that once he reconsumed Greed, he momentarily was able to showed that genuine interest in Ed and Al. But because it was of course only a small fraction of himself, he was still very much incomplete of his original self.
Xanhus Like I’ve mentioned before, I elaborate on them in separate videos. They’re still individuals and I treat them as such for these videos. I’ve covered two of them in longer videos already (and may do more) and I touched on them easily enough to communicate my point here. Anything more would have been peripheral and unfocused.
Yes he cared about Hohenheim but when he still had emotions. Pride was one of the reasons he actually shared the philosopher stone with Hohenheim, something he later regretted. If he wasn't soo emotional back then we wouldn't have Hohenheim, so no Ed and Al, no reverse circle. Quite ironic that emotions are what destroyed him in the end. And yes I believe there were still pieces of emotions left in him, Gluttony, Pride and Sloth being the most obvious ones, that seriously fucked him up.
Hohenhiem even notices Father's personality is rather bland without his 7 desires in his soul. He also never got an answer out of him when asked why he created the homonculi and have them address him as "Father" when he had previously mocked him on the idea of having and fathering children of his own.
Honestly, his children were everything he wasn't. Each had a small personality trait that humanised them Greed surrounded himself with loyal friends. (Yes he hid the true intention behind the title of henchmen) Wrath truly loved his wife, as she was the only part of his life he chose. Envy wanted to have the kind of relationships and determination that humans had. Sloth didn't seem to want to hurt people, he just wanted a simple life, true to his sin. Lust didn't cower from her death, in fact she welcomed it, and actually commended Mustang, pointing out she could have died in much worse circumstances. Gluttony loved his sister so much he was willing to kill sacrifices to avenge her, and he also felt fear, like any other person. Pride also loved Wrath's wife, and just a scared boy in the end, who was allowed to get a second chance, unlike his siblings.
I mean, nobody asks to be born. It's like children who are sexually abused and go on to become paedophiles themselves. You feel bad for them, I mean, they were victims. They didn't ask to become like this. That doesn't mean you can just forget about the children they've abused. Nobody is inherently evil. We all have good sides and bad sides, even the most morally reprehensible people that come to mind. This is why we can't let sympathy interfere with justice.
@@jammer523691aj I completely agree with not letting sympathy get in the way of justice. You're 100% right there. I just question the idea of an eternal truth, an absolute justice truth at all times. But that's more my philosophical critique of fma that literally no one cares about XD
"In life, every player has to play with whatever cards life deals them, but once the cards are in hand ONLY they can decide how to play them to win the game." - Frankie Sinatra. It's easy to give into the idea of pitying father when you see him thrown crying into the void, buy you must remember: When he saw the cards life dealt him, rather than playing them wisely and trying to win fairly he threw all of his cards away and tried to eat the dealer. It's not anybody else's fault if that gets him tossed out of the casino.
@@souffrantdepine3762 That's a pretty funny analogy XD. I may use it someday. Tho to play devils advocate, I don't think life could be called a fair dealer in that case
Father to me is in a similar class to Ozai from Avatar. Not very interesting on their own but they work well for the story and themes. They won't top my favorite villains list but they serve their purposes. And sometimes having a relatable or multi dimensional villain can actually take away from the narrative
Father is far more interesting than Ozai. And I disagree that Ozai "is not very interesting on his own". (This is a bit silly anyway, you can't see a character out of their story.) I was pretty interested in his familial life, and kinda wanted to know more. Like, what was his relation with his wife ? What was his relation with Iroh before ? Was he always that powerhungry ? That episode where the Gaang hide in their old vacation villa was interesting for both Azula and Zuko. He wasn't explored because it wasn't that necessary for the story. Especially when we do that already with other character like Zuko, Iroh and Azula ? Anywya, in the end, it's more that he didn't have much screentime, than that he isn't a good villain.
@@Baamthe25th has it right. What it comes down to is that Sozin's ambition to unite the four nations in solidarity even greater than the sum of its parts was tainted by the idea that the other nations had to be conquered to do it. He wanted to do this so he would be acknowledged by history. It was a sentiment tinged by arrogance and insecurity: the notion that the Fire Nation was superior to its peers and the fear that the other nations couldn't be persuaded into a single civilization, so the Fire Nation had to *dominate* them. Despite his good intentions, Sozin's attitude was poisoned from the beginning, corrupting not only his heirs, who became more twisted with each passing generation, but the entire society he led, eventually warping it into a fascist state. Everything that Ozai and Azula do is tinged with a sense of arrogance, fear, a desire to be acknowledged, and an inability to properly relate to those around them, almost as though they embody Sozin's ambition - and why wouldn't they? They've been shaped by its consequences their entire lives. In them, the need to conquer which tainted Sozin's initial goal has blossomed into an obsession with power which supersedes the original point of uplifting all people. Ozai and Azula project utter confidence in their superiority - the power they cling to - while never sincerely trusting anyone around them. They can't relate to other people and so they have no faith in them, which makes them paranoid. They must dominate others, because in their mind fear is the only way to make certain of other's loyalty, and if they don't have that certainty, they can't feel secure. This is to the degree that when Azula discovers that fear can't be relied upon, _her entire conception of reality ceases to be reliable._ But Azula only _really_ breaks after her father denies her the honor of being at his side during the Sozin's Comet Earth Kingdom invasion. She takes this as rejection, an expression of shame in her, and says she doesn't want to be treated like Zuko... because just like Zuko, she craves Ozai's acknowledgment - he's the one person she looks up to, the one person she doesn't need to hold power over or make afraid of her. At a very basic level, he's her dad before anything else. And Ozai looks bizarrely bemused and even annoyed at her reaction. He just doesn't get why this is so important to her, except in terms of how much power she has. He is _so bad_ at interpersonal relationships that he can't even properly relate to the child that takes more after him than anyone. He basically tries to bribe her by giving her the title of Fire Lord, all while he appoints himself to the even greater station of "Phoenix King" - because just like Sozin and Azula, he wants to be acknowledged, and he's going to do it by being remembered for all time as the scary powerful dude who burned the shit out of everyone who opposed him. In that moment, Ozai is trying to satisfy Azula while keeping her below him. He wants to placate her, but he's obviously not going to cede authority over her - that'd be absurd, he can't be certain of her loyalty otherwise! It just doesn't process for him that their relationship is more than its power dynamic - after all, when it came down to it, he was willing to have _his_ father poisoned (by his wife!) to get what he wanted, so when Azula comes storming up to him demanding (begging for) his recognition, what's at the forefront of his mind isn't joy at her filial piety, it's _paranoia._ Ozai was Ozai, the leader of the Fire Nation. Everything the Fire Nation had become by the time Aang reawakened was a reflection of Ozai and how he looked at the world, and Ozai himself was the distorted echo of Sozin's once high-minded ambition. He didn't have as much screentime as he could've, but taken as a whole he's actually pretty well-realized.
My god, I’m so happy someone feels this way. I’ve been scrolling the comments in curiosity, to see if anyone else could see the near identical similarities of Ozai and father. Both villains appear bland and narrow minded but that is the point. They both bring out the best out of all the characters they have made suffer and this ultimately leads to their own downfall, as all the people around them have grown so much from the suffering caused. And they both just make so much sense in the series they are put in. And to be honest. Sometimes in the real world some people are just plain evil and malice and theirs no explanation for it.
Father removing his seven desires did the exact opposite of making him a more perfect entity. It made him a shell. He claims to look down on humanity but in essence, he is one. He even has the overblown God complex that plenty of us unfortunately show. Even Hohenheim calls him out in that he only exists because of the humans he condescends to. He represents what many humans attempt to escape, the undeniable truth that they are human.
Hohenheim even points out that by gaining a human body and stripping himself of his seven sins, he's basically back to where he started, only that his vessel is bigger
For some reason I find the idea of an entity or person working for a long time to achieve godhood or understanding of something beyond reality, only to find that all that effort didn't accomplish anything very appealing. It's like a nihilistic joke being integrated in the story. Although I can only think of two stories with that concept, one being FMA and the other one being a book called Revival.
Well, the one thing we know about FMA universe is the law of equivalent exchange, you can get anything for nothing. So, I don't think it's a joke simply integrated to the story, it's the very basis of it.
Beautiful, as always! I love how Arakawa built so much of those characters simply by comparing one to others. They don't even have to be complete foils of one another, just look at Scar and Roy, for example, who are tainted by their wrath and they end up being the ones facing Wrath itself. The one who just recently learned his lesson (Mustang) is quickly dominated in their confrontation but the one who goes all the way through to overcome his wrath (Scar) gets to be the one defeating him, and only coudl to so after he finished his character arc. Similar themes and development structure run through so many characters that we can spend all day comparing them to their incomplete foils. As you put it, we can't analyze characters in a vacuum, and it makes them just that much richer. It's really sad that the Homunculi just realized that they both feared, despised, longed for and envied humanity near their end, but even sadder that Father never realized that. Even after being scolded by Truth, he never learned this lesson and probably never will since he can't interact with humans anymore inside the gate. Such a sad character. We can only hope that Selim will learn this lesson through his new life. Great job, Alec. Please keep up with the good work.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for sharing your thoughts. I agree, there are a startling number of character parallels and "pseudo-foils" - it really shows some fantastic story structure and planning.
In a way FATHER stands for everything an Alchemist should. Calculating, Cold, Efficient, and guided by the singular purpose of truth...or in this case God. It's a path the Elric twins were on. It's a path all the alchimests were on. They used "progress" as a means for cruelty and advancement. It's no wonder that creating a Philosophers stone is the sacrificing of souls...because to an alchimist the soul is irrelevant.
perhaps in regard to the pursuit of knowledge or truth. Riza's father stated he effectively died when he completed Flame Alchemy and became satisfied, having nothing else to learn. However, alchemists also live by the credo of "Alchemist, be thou for the people", and we see some Alchemists, like Izumi, use their abilities to assist others.
More reason I have more pity than hate toward Shou Tucker. Of course, as somebody else said in the comments on this video, any sympathy shouldn't get in the way of justice. And what Shou did to his family of choice while throwing away any sense of remorse about it was definitely a lot to answer for.
@@basilofgoodwishes4138 Father's hypocrisy, and everything that stems from it, literally ended up killing at least one kingdom, and caused unparalleled death and destruction spanning centuries, if not millennia. So yeah, I'd say his hypocrisy is probably not just a big crime, but *the ultimate crime.*
I think FATHER is best exemplified through his homunculi. His purged sins...represent his purged humanity. His homunculi all seem to have some sentiment to humanity. Which suggests that he does as well. Yet he ignores it. He wants so desperately to be better than his human creators. He is an artificial being, that wants to be God. Yet, by being unwilling to "be human" all he will ever be is a pretender.
Whenever someone would write off Father immediately as being a bland main antagonist, as being too flat or just plain cliche and boring, it never sat right with me. I couldn't quite articulate what it was about him that in my opinion still had merit in the way he interacted with the story. The closest I ever got was "Father and his Homunculi are supposed to be looked at as a set, because they all originated from him and carry his own fragmented characterization. He is bland because he is a shell; all his personality has been purged and placed into the Homunculi. So in a way, each of their psychological arcs could have been his, had he chosen to keep them." This analysis went above and beyond not only that sentiment, but also his necessity to the themes and characterization of the show as a whole. Big round of applause or delivering yet another great video.
"blank slate" Funny you mention that because that's literally what Father's Gate of Truth was during his moment with Truth compared to the other characters. That fact alone tells us the moral of Father's character arc: being obsessed with the desire of achieving power and knowledge for yourself will always leave you empty. Good write up, have you considered doing a analysis on the Homunculi and Dante from FMA 2003, they are quite fascinating in their own right.
Thanks. I'm not particularly interested in covering individual characters from 03. If I do ever make a video about it (and I'm not sure that I will, because I'm quite a bit less passionate about it than I am about Brotherhood) it'll be about broader themes and concepts rather than individual characters.
Aleczandxr Cool, I just thought the Homunculi and Dante were the best parts of the 2003 version because of how different they are from the manga, keep up the good work
I think the moral is more about wisdom comes from accepting your limitations. To make this reasoning short consider the last interactions with the truth between dwarf in the flask and edward. The truth doesn't chastise the Dwarf because of his persuits, but more that the origin of his persuit come from pure arrogance, which was why he had no tree of wisdom. Edward is praised though for reasoning that he is only human, and believing that he could defy the universe through alchemy was just arrogance, thus why he gives up his gate of truth.
Agreed while Father himself wasn’t necessarily a great character what he contributed to the story more than made up for it in my eyes and I loved how Arakawa made his defeat an ironic end.
AnimeWolf7 He's a clear plot device but one that I argue is well woven into the overall narrative and message of the series. Hence, why I love him. I find that Arakawa is in love with the idea of irony. I forget who posted this(major credit to them), but all the Hommculi die ironic deaths related to their vices.
Father kinda reminds me of Ozai from avatar the last airbender but not as bland they both didn't do that much in the show until the end and both where overshadowed by the villains that came before them and they are both more like plot devices than they are villains even tho I do like father way more than ozai
Yet another fantastic analysis. Father (Dwarf in the Flask? Homunculus? I never know what to call him) isn’t the greatest character in the show but as a foil, he works extremely well. One thing I’ve noticed about him and want to point out is that despite the confident, lofty front he puts out he really didn’t know what he was doing. He tried to make himself perfect by purging the seven deadly sins and creating the homunculi, but did that really do anything? His children were imbued with his essence, certainly, but did those sins really leave him? He still sits in a chair all day plotting to become god; that’s at least three of them checked off right there. He tried to give Gluttony a door of truth in his stomach but that was a complete failure. Father’s door of truth is blank. Everything he is, he stole from others; his very existence could be said to be leeching off Hohenheim. He really is incompetent. Gah, Arakawa’s a genius. It would take days to unpack everything in this story. Great video!
Thank you! And oh for sure, he was completely clueless most of the way through the story. He had intelligence but a lack of general logical sense. And he is something of a mix of greed, envy, gluttony and sloth incarnate, which renders most of his purging completely useless.
Die-hard fan cracked: For his name, he directly names himself as Homunculus when Slave 23 asks him. Dwarf in the Flask is what Hohenheim (aka Slave 23) calling him. Father is what he wants his 'chlidren' calling him. How complicated lol
I never liked the name "Father." The moment I learned that he was the Dwarf in the Flask, I only referred to him as "Dwarf." Not only is it his true nature, but it also diminishes his ego, which is a powerful means of knocking him down a peg.
You serious? I loved the name "father" because it fits with his god complex really well and his image being that of a stereotypical god image of a old man in white robes with a white beard and hair. It's All perfect thematic story telling for him in his god complex.
Nice explanation of why Father is important to the story. I also like the religious symbolism of him, as him essentially gaining the power of “God”, yet he was felled by an ordinary person, fuels the idea that Father’s idea of God, religion, human connections,etc, were all very narrow-minded and simplistic, which lead to his demise.
After rewatching this, i found that their is a lot to be said cause I personnaly think that he was a great character. So in hope that he will be a better character in people eyes ( all of that is just interpretation ) : - You didn’t mention Hohenhim and (the time they lived in) , was the real « foil » of Father’s characterisation, his entire action were surrounded by those actually. - After his birth, his one and only « comrade » is (HH) a slave with no freedom and is used as tool ( a means to an end ), by his own species. - The plan of being immortal no matter the cost on the people was originally the king of xerces plan, father possessing the knowledge of what would have happened just bested him for his sake and HH.( he learned egoism) - His want to build a family with his sins are derivated from HH, and when later HH asked him why he did, he didn’t know. - Despite the fact that he supposedly see human as nothing after what the king was planing, he still see Hohenhim as genuinely special, that is why he copied his ( Hohenhim) apparence , he could easily change his apparence like envy does, but didn’t. - He lied about taking HH apparence thanks to his blood he could have been anything else, but truly want to be just like him, while still hiding it. - I don’t think father was taken by an inferiority complex, it was more of ,a fear of being nothing more than the human who ( at his time enslaved, stealed, killed eachother, ( basically looking eachother as trash). And sadly for him, unlike HH who after the incident gone in different part of the world and lear more about other , people , civilisations, and about the souls trapped within him and grow, he stayed ( kind of symbolising his stagnent view of the world ) at the same time. ‘’you simply must have seen the answe with your own eyes” that’s what truth was referring to. That’s why when he meet truth his door of knowledge is empty and is said “you never grew from you days in the flask”. In the end also like you said a foil of theme, symbolizing : Corrupted growth, Acceptance and Reject ( of humanity), purpose and Stagnation , showing that father was above all a being that had lost faith humanity and decided to treat them just like they treated each other when he was born, tools, while he, should be better that them at any costs. ( There come the seek of perfection , human aren’t perfect, and I believe that his why father wanted that. “You rejected your human origins”/“Did you think you could surpass human by removing your 7 desires” Truth. Father is when you really think about it, a tragic character, an individual, that grown at a bad time surrounded by selfish and uncaring people, and just mimicked them, without eventually growing unlike them. This also explain why he is so bland as a human figure, he DIDN’T WANTED to look human anymore. Truly amazing thought put on a character if you ask me, just a little harder that other characters of fmab to put your finger on. ( Sorry for the wall of text )
Father is great. Since he stripped away all of his substance in order to create the seven homunculi, and in turn give us some really cool bad guys, I'd say the he very much succeeds as a villain himself.
I agree. While people say Dante is a more better main antagonist than Father is, and while that may be true, but I still find a interesting villain who is smart but flawed.
Arakawa truly is a genius. Years after being introduced to the Fullmetal Alchemist and I am still learning new things about it both plot and character wise. Great video I love how detailed these are.
Father actually taught me a valuable lesson or rather the truth's final words to him did. "Did you really think removing your sins would make you worthy?" I grew up a christian and long wished I could have been born incapable of sin. Hearing this made me realize that there would be no personal growth for such a being and the point of being human is to overcome these character flaws. At least that's what I got out of it.
@Father "You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference."
I've been at my lowest state in life. People either understand and don't care, or don't understand, but care. Making it seemingly helpless. I can't cry. I can't smile. I can barely even laugh without faking it. In classes, I've lost every motivation to even be there. I can barely even keep my eyes open, despite going to bed earlier than ever before. You oddly helped me with this, although it was a short one. Thanks.
This is why I watch this channel. BEAUTIFUL analysis. Father is one of my biggest inspirations when writing my story, as I truly think one of the best ways to write an antagonist is have their ideals clash the story's messages and their undoing being a delivery of why their ideology is flawed. He might not be a great villain when judged superficially, but in terms of all the context surrounding him in FMA, the true brilliance of his concept shines through.
"What is wrong with craving knowledge?" You could say craving/wanting something is a (small) part of greed, so if it isn't bad afterall why did he get rid of his greed...
Aleczandxr hence why Greed has one of the most powerful abilities, but his personality holds him back. I personally think the Ultimate shield is the most powerful Homunculus Ability. The Eye is another contender but it’s only good thanks to Bradley’s skill meets it half way. Greed and Pride are his most powerful fates, and are the most powerful Homunculi
Father to me is in the same vein as Firelord Ozai from The Last Airbender, albeit with a little more complexity and depth. They aren't great, but they aren't meant to be because they serve an important narrative purpose, as you said, a plot device representing the antithesis to the story's theme. It's not who they are, it's not even about their motives, it's about what their existence represents and what their goals mean for the world at large and the overarching themes of their respective series. And when you take into account that the Sins' personalities, desires and weaknesses, are the personified representation of his own since they are literally a part of him, he becomes even deeper as a character. It fits with the "One is all, all is one" theme now that I think about it, that fits him and his children very well.
Fans of the '03 anime dislike Father due to him being so flat, but I honestly think that flatness was the whole point of his character. He was always meant to be a foil, and really nothing more.
One thing I believe that's worth pointing out is the fact Hohenheim asks Father why he treated the Homunculi as children and had them call him "Father". For an entity who supposedly removed all his seven desires, including envy, it seems odd that he would still feel compelled to emulate the human concept of family. Moreover, Father becomes increasingly excited as his ultimate plan comes to fruition, implying he was unsuccessful in purging his own emotions.
I think part of his reason for teaching Hoenhiem was his ego, being made of him, made him feel lesser due to his stasis, so he helps him from illiterate slave to skilled alchemist and finally philosopher's stone just to make his origin greater
Excellent, video man. FMAB is my favorite anime of all time. Father was someone who I was iffy on like you, but upon contemplating I actually find him fascinating. He is a plot device in that he is a representation of the dangers of hubris and believing one's self to be a god. But I find that the beauty of father lies in the idea of dogmatism. Alchemy and religion in FMA are presented as perspectives to view the world. One routed in science and the other in faith. But I find that the beauty of Father(and FMAB) is that he represents the dogma of science. Correct me if I am wrong, but philosopher Immanuel Kant famously stated that humans should be treated as an end and not a means. This is shown brilliantly with Father's dismissal of the souls of the Philosopher stone and his willingness to strip away his identity in order to attain truth. But I argue this would ultimately be his downfall. For while Alchemy and gaining knowledge is nice, it is the intent and means that matter. Father stole/ co-opted knowledge from others and as you mentioned, was slavishly pursuing said information. And this is conjecture on my part, even if he had attained what he wanted, I doubt that would have fully satiated him. Hence, the beauty of his demise with truth. Overall, Father is a personification of dogma and how being so single-minded and not considering the humans element is what ultimately led to his downfall.
Father is a very interesting character because he sticked to his ideology and followed his ideology till the end but as his ideology was very ambiguous and was more like hitting axe on your leg ideology without considering anything at all. His ideology was to gain perfection but rejecting everything which was imperfect. He did not realize that imperfection teaches everything and that is why he has zero knowledge at the end because he rejected all knowledge which was imperfect and that is why he is not a good villain but an boring villain at the end because of the rejection of almost everything but then also daydreaming to become the ultimate being. The interesting hypocrisy of Father is that he rejected god by rejecting parts of god (humans, emotions, flaws) then also he tried to swallow god. He literally rejected his own existence and self belief and acted like he is a god.
I know I'm three years too late to get any interaction but I actually disagree about father being bland and one note. I'd rather call it subtle than bland. Father tried to exercize his flaws but crucially, though the story never outright says it-he fails. Father, though far less than his creations is prideful, wrathful, slothful, lustful, envious, and greedy. He, just like any other homunculus, believes himself to be above humans-pride, as he says in the opening to this video he believes that humans that try to attain the power that he is trying to obtain must pay a steep price-wrath. He only acts through his creations-sloth, he will do anything to gain the power he desires-lust and greed, all this because he is envious of humans. Envious of their connections and their freedom. Imo the greatest thing about father is that, again imo you get the sense that to him, he never escaped the flask. He only entered a bigger flask. We don't see what leads father to exercise his sins or create a second philosophers stone, but again, I feel you get the sense that father feels bound, still. That he must purge his limitations to truly become "free", and when that didn't work, to try and escape his binds by assimilating with the highest power in the world. But father can't see the truth. One is all, all is one. Of course he can't remove his "sins" they are him and he is them. Of course he can't surpass the world, he is part of the world, the world is a part of him. His efforts are futile. Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
You’ve misunderstood the crux of my point there, I think. I’m aware of everything you said and I actually talked about a decent amount of that in the video. My point is not that Father is bland. My point is that he would have been bland without the (subtle, as you say) context that makes him interesting. This comment isn’t a disagreement, to clarify.
Ah. Dub, But yeah Father in many ways is like a child but in someway I don't think he is supposed to be a great character. He is truly just an end goal. Shout out to Isczandxr.
WTF is this "ah dub" statement? What?! Piss off with that statement. This English dub is fantastic and so have most English dub have been for the longest for over 20 years now. That statement is so bad it's pain to hear. This isn't the 90s anymore to be thinking with any of that nonsense.
I always thought sloth was also a representation of Father's apathy. While lazy, sloth, like Father, also seemed to care very little about things and people unless they affected him directly. It was shown more in the original anime's sloth but I always thought his line about making a mess when squishing someone presented this aspect a bit.
I am reminded of the conversation King Bradley had with Selim that the humans were surpassing them and their time may have passed. Selim warned him that Father would consider such talk treasonous, but he kept it to himself because he loved King Bradley and his adoptive mother. I think King Bradley's human nature and his close, frequent contact with humans allowed him to learn things about humans that Father hadn't, because Father distanced himself and locked himself up in the sewers for hundreds of years. Ling's human nature also opened Greed up to personal growth, despite Greed beginning life as a homunculus unlike Bradley; whereas Greed initially collected humans and had a shallow "love" for them in the way that a child "loves" his toys, he was able to mature in his relationships with humans from sharing a body with Ling. From what Selim said about Father not even tolerating the idea that humans could defeat him, it also sounds like he was not the master strategist he made himself out to be. Maybe he gave that part of himself away when he made Bradley his Wrath; Bradley, after all, was trained in military strategy from a young age and it was his job and his superpower to consider every possibility and see all the possible paths and their consequences in front of him. Sometimes I wonder if Father intended all along for the Führer of Amestris to have only one soul left in his philosopher's stone, because if Bradley had the regenerative capabilities of the other homunculi he could easily have overpowered Father and usurped his throne. Such a consideration would contrast with Father's lack of understanding of human nature, but demonstrate his understanding of his own nature as a homunculus. Selim and most of the other homunculi were, like Father, blinded by their pride in that they couldn't fathom an inferior being like humans defeating them, but Wrath and Greed both considered the possibility and they're the two who were most deeply intertwined with humans. I can't help but think that if Father had kept those seven aspects of his personality within himself and conversed with the souls like Hohenheim did, that he would have learned about human nature and made similar observations to Wrath and Greed. It's also telling throughout the series that although Father presents a stoic facade, he did not really lose the sins he "gave" to the other homunculi. He was still envious of humans, he still had his lust for power and his vision for the promise day, to swallow God, was as greedy and gluttonous as it gets. He still had as much pride as ever in himself as a homunculus, and he showed his wrathful side in combat especially against Hohenheim. And to top it all off, like Sloth, he didn't really want to do anything. He delegated all his tasks to his underlings; that's why he created them in the first place. They did all his work for him, they learned and they grew in understanding of humans and the Truth while he sat on his fat ass under Central, not doing anything. It shows that casting off sins is not as easy as spawning children and dumping your sins on them. If it was, the outcome would have been different.
I'm not particularly interested in covering individual characters from 03. If I do ever make a video about it (and I'm not sure that I will, because I'm quite a bit less passionate about it than I am about Brotherhood) it'll be about broader themes and concepts rather than individual characters.
Damn I thought he was an an incredibly well written character and was very entertaining to watch lol guess this just shows the difference in people's opinions on characters
Father is a great villain but unlike other great villains he only works in the world of FMA. take him out of said world and everything great about him stays in FMA's world.
Father definitely served his purpose in the story well. There's no denying that the series main themes didn't suffer from him being the villain. He's not a great villain because of who he himself is but because everything that happens around him fits so well with him.
I like how whenever a character saw their own door of truth it had etchings that represented who that character was and what they learned and achieved. But when you get to see Father's door it's blank. Its the most fitting for him.
I think he's pretty awesome and interesting in all scenes other than when he looked like Hohenheim and when he was that weird eye-monster thing. He was interesting as the Dwarf in the Flask, as the great and humongous being that would be the only one to dare swallow God, and as the fuzzy black ball facing the fuzzy white ball (being Truth, God, I, You, etc.) in the afterlife.
Thematically speaking, Father is perfectly functional for the story of FMA, but as an actual antagonist, he’s still pretty flat. I like that we can get a little glimpse into his personality through his children, but if I wanted to watch a prideful man with the world’s biggest inferiority complex sacrifice his humanity and enslave the world and reign supreme as the one true God of everything only for his ego and lack of empathy to ultimately destroy him in the end... I’d just watch DIO.
+Jimmy Ichigo Sir I must argue with you. His last fight with Mustang was Arakawa's biggest mistake as he should've put up more of a fight. But, may I remind you that he almost killed Ed AND Ling in a 2 on 1 fight. When he lost to Marcoh he was outnumbered 6 to 1 and one of those 6 was Scar, a very powerful character. Also, he could have killed Marcoh in that fight if he didn't need him alive. Envy was relatively a pretty powerful character so I would show more respect if I were you.
The Lascivious One allowed her desires for bloodshed lead to her own demise, burned alive after targeting the lover of a man she thought she killed. The Voracious One wanted nothing more than to eat, but the tables were turned when a stronger predator grew hungry for his flesh. The Jealous One felt the ultimate humiliation of his arch enemy seeing through all his insecurities, and committed suicide to escape. The Indolent One let himself burn out from a long battle, happy to be resting at last. The Furious One was torn apart by the fury of a vengeful man, and embraced his end with dignity. The Avaricious One forsook his own vice, sacrificing himself for the benefit of another. The Arrogant One finally met his demise shamefully in opposition to what he stood for The Thief received the most grievous punishment of all: an eternity in his own personal Hell, a penance for committing the very sin he had wished to punish.
I see as he was scared of his human nature. He hated them for how he was originally treated. But over time grew to desire humanity and started seeing how they actually are. And it scared him and he couldn't bring himself to accept it. So he rips his human traits (the 7 sins) out thinking this would help him. But this was actually be his downfall. As he no longer had his emotional and rational thoughts, he didn't think ahead. He was over confident. And the sins still sit with him Greed- his desire to obtain gods power and rule the world. He wanted it all to himself. Lust- his desire to have beings obey him for his own satisfaction Envy- he still envied the motives and bravery the humans had. Even when he was using the power of God. They still stood against him even if it meant they die. He envied this feeling. Wrath- His biased hatred towards humanity always stayed. Even though deep down he wanted what they had. He still hated them because they have what he doesn't. Sloth- the fact he took the he sorta took an easy way out and got others to do his bidding for him. And he got aggravated when people went against him and made him have to put in more work. Pride- His over confidence. He was so overconfident in himself, that he lost almost all rational thinking once he gained the power we wanted. Which would be a major downfall for him. Gluttony - He was a glutton for power and control. He wanted more and more and was never satisfied with what he had. So even though he attempted to pull those sins out of him. They remained. And instead it took his humanity away
I like the idea that, since Father is the ultimate force behind the fascist state of Amestris, he is the embodiment of fascism and imperialism, born of the blood of a slave (Hohenheim), whom he belittles and ever seeking power. We usually see that the reasons behind the commitment of war crimes, genocides and acts of imperialism that abound in fascist states, were for the "preservation of the regime" serving the "greater good". The idea that Father is a bland character can serve as a representation of these bland ideas, masquerading his own plans, as fascism is a means to masquerade the personal agenda of those in power.
Nazgul PL I enjoy Dante but I can see what you mean. Bradley is awesome. One of my favorite characters in the entire series. Also, RIP Ed Blaylock. He was awesome in the role.
He is all the villains and not a villain at the same time I guess as the villains are originated from him and he is crystal-cleared when he separates from them alchemically...
Father stole everything he had from humans, he cut corners, stole, copied others. He gained it all without giving anything in return. Unequivolent exchange. Then as a cherry on top, he cut out the parts of him that made him human to prove how much better he was, even though literally everything he got was because of humans. The first and final lines in the manga are that gain without sacrifice just doesn't exist, so it all comes full circle.
I never cared for Father now Dante she was a villain more my speed. One of the reasons I loved the first FMA anime just a bit more. But like always a great video that much like both versions of the anime left me with ideas to ponder on.
i think the moment Truth said "you never grew beyond your days in the flask" had more meaning than we originally perceive, all Father did was absorb knowledge, but he never once tried to do something with it for anyone but himself, even when he gave half of the souls to Hoemheim it was only because both were standing in the same spot, Father ignored the first law of Exchange Equivalence "to gain something, one must give something in return" Father gained all the knowledge the world had to offer...without giving to the world (or anyone for that matter) something in return, in that aspect Edward rises above and beyond, giving up his gate of truth for Alphonse, realizing that life in on itself has LIMITED value when taken as an invidual experience, but when you share your knowledge, emotions and experiences with others, when you sacrifice for others, when you GIVE to others, that's when your life multiplies it's value by positively affecting those around you "who needs Alchemy when i've got them?" indeed.
This is like a critique to Purity Culture which preaches problematic elements as sins to be buried away. Father is what one would get if they followed through their ideals
Father's greatest sin was not pride but despair, because in the end like truth said he never believed in him self. he always wanted to escape from who he was rather then accept himself or his humanity and that's what ultimately did him in. bonus point's being like the other homunculi his death was ironic in that reabsorbing greed was his last hope and it ended up being his downfall.
Really good video and I can now quite appreciate Father for being in the series. I am hoping to eventually see a video analysing Shinji Ikari, who I can quite relate to as a person.
The seven sins are only deadly if you let them consume you. Father was not the ultimate being if he was afraid to have them within himself and making homunculi of those sins.
I noticed that Greed died last it shows the truth of him(Father)that he is empty and hollow within thinking Godhood is the missing piece he needs to complete himself
I like how you actually got the part about the homunculi being Father's cast off traits that grew on their own. I watched a great video dissecting Envy awhile ago and got really frustrated with how they said any of the other homunculi could have turned out like him. Good job.
Ding! With the Homuculus status, Father doesn't have a Gate of himself and that's why he wants to use human as energy to steal the Gate of the God/universe in order to have a Gate, and be perfect.
I have always been meaning to watch both series, but never got around to it until these past two weeks. Having just finished Brotherhood, I went through your five videos on the subject to see what your thoughts were. Nothing short of brilliant from the anime and from you.
But he does get a lot of characterization. Only it’s not direct characterization. We get to know him through the thoughts of his children the homunculi. They are all his traits. And we know his history and origin from Von Hoemhaim. It’s like Minato, where for the great majority of Naruto, an image of him is painted that in our mind makes him the greatest ninja to ever live, without having seen him. We know of his sacrifice, and love for the village. We know he was skilled. And through Kakashi, we know how he thought and what his methods would be because we know he influenced Kakashi. Father is also the kind of character that for most of the show he is heavily characterized indirectly through other characters.
I like his motivation because he started out as a dwarf who wanted to escape his flask, but once he did he was still trapped by something. He refused to accept there are limitations on being human
A great example why perfection is overrated. Father wanted to be perfect, but he was "perfect" the way he was before. In the end, he threw away his imperfections, the things that make us human and became nothing. The fact he never truly learned his lesson is very sad and almost makes you pity him, just a little bit. Great analysis as always.
One of the most striking details that I love about his lasts moments with the truth is that is door is blank. Edward's door is so intricate and heavily constructed and then Dwarf in the flak's door is empty, even though he lived for so many years. And something that (to me) was like a dagger to the heart, was the fact that his essence was bred from Hohemheim's blood, and thus, his biggest goal -which was to be free- was Hohenheim's dream.
If you don't go outside (the jar or the cave) you can't make mistakes and learn by them, so the way to improve (and achieve godhood) is from seeing others and understanding why they fail. The problem is that to understand entirely what people do and why they do it you must be able to empathize with them, otherwise you see their actions as irrational, you can't comprehend their motives and thus, you can't improve(you can't find yourself in any similar situation, so their experience is useless to you). The only way to be able to empathize with others, is for you to have felt the same emotion as they do. Casting away all your emotions and desires leaves you unable to grow. (of course I know there are some other ways to improve and my analysis is not complete but I think just wanted to add this to the overall analysis)
