Agreed. I live in Uruguay and for example, for the all in pledge of Ankh I paid between shipping and local taxes around 700 USD above the all in pledge value. If you want to play the game, you should know first the rules. Should I do it again? No. Maybe next time (after Zombicide and Massive Darkness 2 arrives, as I have also purchased them)I'll purchase the game with an US adress and travel to US to obtain it.
Yeah. I’m US and I still wait for a PM to put any money in to something. Shipping has been crazy for a while now and I want to know my total cost before I commit. Shipping has to be part of that decision these days, not just an afterthought. I imagine it’s way more important to factor in in other regions.
Yeah, I'm in New Zealand, and with shipping the all in pledge will cost me NZ$2,000. I know it's a lot of content, but that's insane. $1 pledges for me from now on.
I am really starting to avoid games with a ton of plastic. Beyond the ridiculous costs of shipping and the inflated cost of the game, I am struggling with shelf space and could probably spend the rest of my life painting minis. Glad I skipped this one.
Yeah, once you have enough plastic to paint you don't need more so these types of games go way down in value. I don't understand anyone who doesn't want the minis to paint buying this...
@@lucky6666 I don't paint anything. I actually prefer the natural state and uniformity of the colored plastic. Besides that, I get these types of games because I enjoy the emersive nature of miniature games. I'm happy for all the painters out there excited for the Marvel IP. But I'm just in it to play it.
@@dougcerulli8826 You should give painting a try it's very soothing and when you manage to make it look ok it will fill you with pride to play with them
This is the reason why I prefer standees over minis. Standees can look really good, just look Uprising. Also Eldritch Horror looks great too with standees.
Stopped backing CF campaigns years ago. I am able to buy games after they have actually been finished and can cherry pick the best of the bunch rather than roll the dice only to be disappointed in so many released in a pre alpha state. I may pay more for individual games, or not depending on how patient I am on the secondary market, but it saves me in the long run in not wasting my time on shovelware products that I am not happy with playing. The ever increasing big box prices cannot continue to go up forever, there is a bubble here that is going to burst.
Alex, Thank you so much for the video. I have owned small companies shipping from US to international and from China to international. I also have experience with assisting to run Kickstarter campaigns. I am moving to New Zealand and renting a container (US to Asia twice and now the prices are double after Covid).For my Marvel Zombies US800 game content I am getting I am paying US520 for shipping. Yes, shipping costs is high, but I buy online daily and internationally enough to know that these are probably still lower than the actual costs. So yes, it is possible CMON is actually losing money on shipping; which is not uncommon for crowdfunding campaigns to factor this into their total costs. I am fortunate enough to justify all these costs for this game, but I absolutely feel terrible for backers that are slapped with double or even triple CMON estimates. The disturbing feeling of CMON (who has run 50 campaigns) either did not do their due diligence on shipping estimates OR worse, intentionally lowering the estimates to lure people into backing their project in the first place. Double or triple costs for shipping in a 2 month period just did not happen in the real World. It just leaves a bad taste with bad business ethics and practice.
Alex, CMON man! There is literally zero defense for this treatment of customers, much less advanced backers. Portal games instantly refunded my all in on Eleven with a simple request. Uprising still shipped to backers despite shipping fiasco and releasing a promo deck to help fund the out of pocket expense. As a fellow business owner myself, I can’t imagine you or I pulling these tricks on our current customers. Bottom line is CMON overtly chooses to treat its backers this way, and why any gamer would could continue to support them baffles me. I feel like all of you have CMON Stockholm Syndrome. I backed their comics a while back and bought ONE Cthulhu comic for $30. They tried to charge me $30 to then ship me a single book. Asked for my money back and they told me no, so I’m just glad i didn’t have this experience when I backed all in for Ankh. And I will NEVER buy another CMON game, period. Have some principles, take a stance, lead by example, and don’t condone or tacitly approve of this behavior. You have a platform to actually make a difference in this industry.
The statement that he automatically assumes the price will be higher than they estimate says a lot. Do we really think they don't know their estimate is wrong but Alex does? Or are we simply ok with the fact that they try to trick their backers?
Your suggestion is like telling me to boycott coke and only drink Pepsi, as if there was no difference between the two drinks. There’s a huge difference. CMON games are fantastic. I have limited time. I’m not going to stop playing the games I actually care about just because I want to make some arbitrary point about theoretical consumer values. If you go look into the comment section of Robinson Crusoe it’s full of people saying they’ll never support Portal ever again because of reasons. If I followed your advice I wouldn’t have any games to play at all
@@Twineandribbon arbitrary? That means for no reason and I have a pretty great reason. It’s not “arbitrary.” I don’t stand for being mistreated. You do what you like. There are thousands of game companies, you act like CMON is the only company making games you like to play? Thanks for proving my point, that CMON fans just blindly support their games simply because it’s from CMON. Sounds like you arbitrarily support CMON regardless of the games they produce or how they treat their customers. I would never blindly support a publisher in that manner, frankly it’s odd. No other publisher has a stranglehold over their customers’ minds quite like CMON.
@@DF-we4pt you’re right. I just think it is a silly reason. I suppose it would be incorrect to say it is arbitrary. CMON is probably my favorite publisher, as they beat out AR, FantasyFlight, and Flying Frog with the top number of games I like by a slim margin. I have more complaints against FantasyFlight and Flying Frog than I do against CMON though, and I still buy their games, because nobody makes anything better.
@@PeteQuad great point and I honestly feel people would criticize it heavily if it was any other publisher or campaign. For some reason customers give CMON a pass when they lie directly to their face. It’s so bizarre considering the bar every other publisher is held to by their backer base.
$410 for the Galactus pledge? Forget shipping, I need to figure out who's willing to pay that money for two core boxes and a huge mini. The problem is not CMON, the problem is people willing to pay this and enabling these ridiculous prices.
Perhaps I'm the crazy one here, but I have never paid anything close to $140 to ship anything. ANYTHING. Sofas, refrigerators, washing machines. Why do you stand for it?
They basically did this for Ankh too, the additional exclusive box doubled the shipping estimate. I paid 70$ can for it, which was ridiculous and double any game I've ever backed. Ankh was my last CMON at that point.
I have to say that the point on "just get another core box" is ridiculous. Set aside that the $130 should also cover the SG (although we know that it is not just coming from those funds, but distributed across many factors). Backers we should not be "punished" in a about 50% cost of a game in shipping for supporting the company or face the two other options of either wait a year (assuming normal KS delays) after it gets to retail to get to play this OR buy the game twice if you want to play it in a timely manner. I am not saying that shipping should be free for the single box, but having this price is just a joke, also all of their shipping prices are extremely front loaded. I can add 7-10 Galactus to my cart and I will pay for those 7-10 the same as I will pay for ALL-IN pledge. So while I understand that this gigantic plastic is heavy and expensive, their calculation is not based on volume of weight as much as on is this your first galactus? OK $70, is this your 2-9th one ok $20 ... this is illogical to me
I just cant really have any sympathy for CMON in this. They are not a small company striking out on their first project, they are a massive company who have run KSers for nearly a decade now. This is their 50th project and it pulled in 9 mil USD. I paid shipping for UoA 4 months ago, total was $37 to ship two all-ins and three add-ons to TX. Now im looking at $65 to ship just a core pledge to the same address, and nearly a year after it hits retail to boot! That is absolute nonsense. I just can't see how their estimates were so wrong just 2 months ago, that was either a lie to increase pledges or blatant incompetence. Yes shipping is higher now, blah blah blah. We have accepted rising costs on all projects for months and months now. This isnt CMON's first project during the pandemic, it is their 4th or 5th. For the rates to double (or more) in these last two months seems outlandish, as is their estimates that these will be the costs of shipping in late 2023. And the absolute cheek of charging an additional $50 for split wave shipping, you know- getting the core box at the same time as retail. They are all being freighted over together so you are either subsidizing the cost of their retail distribution or they are saying that last-mile delivery for a box the size/weight of the core box is $50. To say nothing of, on top of significatly increased shipping charges, having to acknowledge two legal documents at the beginning of the PM which appears to absolve them of any responsibility to replace damaged goods. Paying more and being SOL when getting broken things, amazing. There are just no silver linings here for me.
I am not saying it justifies the full $50 but just because the product arrives on the same ship from over seas they don't head to you on the same truck or air freight. Plus shipping also is suppose to mean shipping and handling. Again does that mean it justifies the costs $50. My guess most of that price is an added handling charge for all the overhead and handling. Also alot has changed in 4 months especially due to the war in Ukraine. Fuel prices have gone up along with air freight prices also China is locking down and has increased regulations in their ports. Now I have backed several CMON KS and the cost of shipping from each one even before the pandemic has gone up so I am not shocked that the spilt shipping is $50. I have backed a few KS that have had large differences in split shipping. I think they do that more to dissuade people from splitting it is more of a hassle. To me I always looked at split shipping as a perk if people want to spend more money to get part of the game faster than the rest. CMON and other creators should be more upfront the projected increases of shipping. I backed one project which the company ran into an issue with shipping and ate the cost by rerouting their shipping to Europe first then to the US. They were up front that it would take longer but they would eat the cost because they booked new transportation then the air transport to the US. So I would think CMON's PR should be more open to what is going on.
I think the fundamental thing about this is in crowdfunding, backers are taking over most of the risk of the project. In small cases, it’s just about feeling good that you made something happen that couldn’t otherwise. But in big projects with big companies, we really need to think harder about why we are accepting that deal, what we are gaining in exchange for taking the risk, and what more we need to demand from the companies that are taking our money. I think the board games side of crowdfunding has been fairly blessed for a while now, compared to how frequently disasters like this happen in other categories. I think a lot of us are just now realizing the risks are not just hypothetical. We need to demand more, not just in terms of value vs retail pricing, but I think in terms of transparency. I think it’s fair to expect more transparency and honesty than we have been given so far. When you invest in a company, it’s considered due diligence to look at their budget, how much are they paying for this and that, how much is profit. When you invest in a Kickstarter game, everything is imaginary, from funding goals to “free” “stretch” goals to “subsidized” shipping. It’s time to grow up. In this case, bare minimum, CMON needs to give some real accounting over how it is that the shipping costs doubled in 3 short months.
Crowdfunding does depend on the backers trusting (or believing in) the creators. It's a brave, and quite possibly foolish, creator who takes that trust for granted and erodes it. Once the trust is gone, there are no backers.
I just made my own comment. I also mentioned transparency. Thats the biggest disappointment. I'm paying high shipping and I'm gonna probably get the game close to the same time as retail. I went with the core box and a few add ons. Yeah theres stretch goals, but we'll see if its worth the extra $80.
There is another option that is not discussed. Make smaller KS campaigns. Start with the core box only then come back later with expansions. There are so many games where the core game is fantastic and people want more. Euthia, Uprising and Sleeping Gods as recent examples. All of them could have just had a core game and had a second expansion campaign. Why? Because it allows the publishers to fully concentrate on making a great core game with a really good rule book. Second, prices have been coming down (see the Logisitcs Report on WSJ, frieght and other costs are coming down just not as quick as people expect and the Shanghai lockdown has slowed the decline). I feel everyone looks at CMON and want the one big mega campaign versus doing it over two years or whatever it takes to fulfill the core game.
I like smaller campaigns that “stack” where you can order previous products in future campaigns. That might be a way to avoid these huge shipping hits all at once.
I love the idea but I think those follow up campaigns would be less successful. There’s a risk that the hype dies down and maybe the core game doesn’t get phenomenal ratings…it would limit people’s appetite. This way they are tapping into irrational completionist FOMO
@@ilqrd.6608 The follow-up campaigns are usually more successful. Look at "Nemesis Lockdown" or "Rurik Stone&Blade". When the game is good and word got around, a lot more people will want in. Also, first campaigns are often overlook or missed by a lot of people which then would gladly jump on the second campaign. The problem would rather be that the first campaign might be less successful when people know there will likely be a second campaign 1-2 years later.
Do they even need to Kickstarter let's be honest Marvel United for example could have gone to retail in stages or even done it in a similar fashion to CCGs. I'd happily buy a 1 character/1Location pack for example from my FLGS.
For context, it's not so much the size of the shipping costs that people have been angry about, but the massive increases over the estimates in the campaign are the issue - a campaign that is really rather recent, and certainly was live when the shipping crisis was very much in existence. Sometimes people are a little too hasty to shout "bait and switch", but on this occasion I very much empathise with those who feel like they've been duped. I'm lucky, as I have no interest in CMON's games, but it doesn't stop me having great empathy for people who put a lot of money up, and are now being asked for a lot more money, or to give up 10% of their outlay to get the partial refund and cut their losses. Other big companies do much more to preserve customer goodwill, as do many of the smaller crowdfunding projects.
exactly. Hey come and get your haircut for $5, but then mid-cutting, the stylist told you that he/she made a mistake and it should have been $50. You can either leave right now with a half-finished haircut, or you can pay $40 in total as opposed to $50 to let he/she finish. I don't know what else to say
Question for me is did CMON just badly miscalculate shipping prices (which seems unlikely) or did CMON knew what the real shipping prices would likely be and chose to lowball (relatively) it so people won't be turned off by the high shipping prices and pledge the KS (instead of waiting for retail)?
@@chencNYC I vote for lowball. Shipping prices changed the most around 2 years ago, now it's just changing between very pricey and ridiculously pricey. Not the same level
"I don't think people understand how much they're getting." 100%! So glad you said this, it's needed to be said. So many drop $400+ on these games not realizing they are asking for 5 kallax boxes worth of game and then are surprised the price is so high when shipping is high when the most important factor in shipping right now is space you take up in a container.
Like you said in your video, though, since freight is based off volume, not weight, most of the goodness we're paying for is Chinese air, given the oversized nature of these boxes to look good on shelves
I have to disagree about the idea of "getting over it" or "moving on". That does not help the situation at all for both camps. It is basically pretending the problem doesn't exist and doesnt create change. I think there are only 2 reasons for the nearly doubled shipping in the 3 month time frame since the campaign: bait and switch to get more pledges or negligence - both of which are really bad. If it was negligence - they should do whatever they can to eat at least some of the costs to be as close to their advertised shipping as possible or offer an opportunity to do a full refund with no refund fees. Most companies would offer such a thing if the fault is on them. I have always been frustrated with CMON but ya this bothers me a bit. The problem is CMON is no taking ownership for these issues and if you look at other companies, they will take every step to rectify the situation. Also the solution of buying more is just supporting the company more and giving yourself more work to correct their own mistake which doesn't sit as well with me. Appreciate the video but I think it's fair to disagree on a few points.
Companies respond to money. The only way to bring the run away Kickstarters under control is to stop backing them. When they get 1/10 of the pledges then they'll get the picture. Until we stop buying them, they'll keep pushing the costs up as high as they can. The "Kickstarter junk" campaigns are heavily subsidized by cheap shipping to just keep throwing out more cheap plastic junk instead of better games. The shipping problem now is just speeding up what's needed to happen for a while.
Agreed and actually sad that Alex is making this kind of argument. Definitely a sponsored kind of response to ensure relationships with CMON are maintained
My issue with CMON is they are not a new kid on the block. They know what they are doing. I’m in the states and the shipping for just the core pledge was double than what they expected. That’s horrible and they should know better. Yes if you are going all in $140 isn’t devastating but $70 for single shipping for a core box is horrendous.
I'm so glad I watched this --- I didn't realize if you backed at the dollar level you could change it later. There's so many of these kickstarters that I'm honestly not inherently excited about and I don't think I should ever have to talk myself into spending money. At the dollar level, it at least gives me a few months to mull it over and/or if life changes in the time since the kickstarter closes...
I agree that shipping is crazy now. But many companies handle this situation very poorly. All they do is announce the newly raised shipping price, and expect the backers to take it or leave it. A better way is make an announcement and break down the numbers to justify the rise in shipping fee. Let the backers see that the company is doing all they can with this issue. Perhaps even throw in some bonus items/cards to reduce the shipping anxiety.
my understanding is bad... based on what I read from Hanamikoji KS, who explained why US gets used to lower prices. is that your product will get shipped from China to US first. then later shipped to SE Asia. That's why we suffer higher costs always. US tends to get the 2nd best shipping costs after China / HK / Macau.
I only back at £/$1. The amount of times I simply don't now purchase the product is incredible. I realise I don't need it or that it doesn't float my boat or, even weirdly, there's just too much on offer by the time the pledgemanager opens up. I'm generally going right off crowdfunding though as a whole... I hate all the extras and the cost, knowing I'll likely never play through the base game never mind all those crazy adds. Then there's the waiting, often forgeting I even backed something or no longer being interested. I have boardgames on my shelf, loads of them, that I have yet to play so it's not like I'm going without. Doing all this, I've found I'm far happier and content. Great video and chat as always, Alex. Love your stuff!
Thanks Alex for creating this video and providing some good advice. I actually filled out the refund form but after watching your video and reviewing the stretch goals again. I decided to downgrade to the undead pledge and get a few expansions instead. Luckily the single shipping came to $62. The way I viewed it, for $62 you'd get around 74 figures/content isn't a bad deal. After this I won't back another CMON campaign since I do feel that they dropped the ball and they won't learn unless backers speak with their wallets. Again great video and keep up the great work.
You said shipping prices are increasing, but that hasn’t been my experience this year. I’ve noticed a slow decline in shipping costs. And since the shipping for this is months (if not years) out, it undoubtedly will get even cheaper as freight costs drop and fuel prices stabilize.
Prices for freight container shipping have dropped 12% since the campaign and are trending down and that’s a fact when you look at the world container index and the Chinese container index tracking which track these prices.
@@fubarbox Exactly, I've also read an article about this. If the shipping prices get to normal in times Marvel Zombies ship, what will CMON do, I wonder.. probably nothing, just will get rich.. :-D
Container prices may have dropped but realistically there would be probably 2 big or 3 medium size boxes in total if you pledged for everything? Galactus alone would likely come in a separate box? That's a fair amount of total volume per pledge. My annoyance right now is with the sheer volume of some of what I get and the fact that there is a lot of empty space in the boxes. Marvel United X-men as well as the first Marvel United expansion boxes are mostly the insert. I realize there is a lot of efficiency in having similar dimensions on boxes but I would take stuff in a bag if it could be shipped safely to avoid all the boxes. I thought I had read somewhere that someone said that it is only $20 per expansion box if you divide it out but paying $20 to ship something that will get condensed and tossed seems a bit of a waste.
@@danielkaiser7245 Fact is they are charging me $69 for 1 wave and $118 for 2 wave for the base pledge only to Oregon...that is 2 boxes. That is overcharging while prices have done nothing but trend down since their campaign. Remember they do not pay retail shipping rates and they get discounts on shipping. It is sad when I can get the game cheaper (by about $60 with 2 wave shipping) from one of their retailr esell partners than I can by closing my PM. They charge retailers less than they charge us for shipping as well as the games at a cheaper price so retail can mark it up. They still make money by doing this. That is the sad reason why I can get my pledge for cheaper somewhere else. They are overcharging backers.
I don't get it : why is it interesting to buy the $20 pack of 14 extra hydra troops, when you can get a second duplicate add-on for an additional $30 and get, in addition to those same extra 14 hydra troops, a duplicate of everything else in the box + the bonus 2 exclusive kickstarter heroes and zombies? Did I miss something regarding this $20 pack being way overvalued?
I absolutely stopped backing CMON.. The FOMO tactics absolutely annoyed me. It is what it is at this point. Clearly I'm not hurting them. Since I wasn't backing them.. I had no idea about the shipping prices either. Just absolutely glad I no longer give them my hard earned cash. They don't deserve it.
As a board game fan who also works in the shipping logistics industry, I can say that shipping is insanely volatile at the moment and unless these companies manage to get a killer contract for their shipping rates, they’re probably getting screwed. Especially if anything happens that would cause lost/damaged/delayed packages. A lot of those refunds have been voided since the beginning of Covid. A lot of these games are also going to definitely get screwed by DIM weight vs actual weight because while components are generally rather light, they take up a LOT of valuable shipping space. That said, there’s no reason for CMON to price gouge their shipping here. The rates I’ve heard listed seem irrationally high. The only thing I can think of is that they are definitely passing along a lot of that ocean freight cost in addition to the full cost of from distribution to door. That said, if you’re worried about running into this in other campaigns, pledge the $1 and decide in the pledge manager. It’ll be your safest bet to avoid massive changes in the shipping costs.
A big issue with Kickstarter is the “shipping” has changed from charges that seemed very similar to what you would expect to ship something similar yourself to something entirely different. Now it includes the cost of freight, shipping, and handling costs. Sure the company has to pay these costs, but if they were selling retailer, they would be eating all these costs (although actual handling and shipping will be somewhat less) as well as selling at wholesale and making a whole lot less in margin. I think that the bigger companies such a CMON are taking advantage of their customers. I haven’t backed a CMON product since the time when they were a really great deal and am glad I haven’t.
Exactly. The publisher needs to get the merchandise from the factory to their market anyway, if they want to sell it on retail. That's usually a cost that is factored into their MSRP (even if that term is meaningless in the context of Kickstarter), but now the customers are supposed to pick up that cost as well.
That is probably at the expense of the backers as well, why not just put all financial burden onto the backers and hold their money hostage. I mean what else are backers to do, if they can't get a refund, they'll either be out the amount for the pledge or pony up an extra 100-150 for shipping.
Gotta disagree here. I worked grocery retail as a price changer for a huge chain and we never ate any costs. EVERYTHING was passed on to the customer. We changed prices every Sunday, and you could track prices going up and rarely down as costs of labor and transportation fluctuated. It just wasn't as obvious, as prices were going up pennies per can on a weekly basis, and not a big push all at once. This is how capitalism works, always will, and always has.
@@freakyzed8467 you don't have an MSRP with groceries though, and if you did you would make sure what your wholesale suppliers/producers would sell to you at an appropriate price, regardless of how high the shipping from the factory to you is. Like, you wouldn't buy Arizona Ice Tea for your store with their 99c price label if Arizona sold it to you for 70c + 35c shipping.
@@freakyzed8467 the issue is that the freight is normally absorbed in the cost structure of a retail offering. A consumer purchasing retail may pay shipping and taxes in addition to the retail price (which is often at a discount to MSRP). Now Kickstarter companies are comparing their price to the MSRP but moving the freight costs from inside their price structure onto the consumer.
Huge companies using kickstarter as a preorder system instead of a regular storefront are doing so only as a way to put the cost of doing business entirely on the customer. I dont know a lot about US laws but it seems the fairly weak consumer laws dont do much to hold them in check
There's a difference between the shipping being higher and it being double what they say. They knew exactly what they were doing and intentionally woo'd backers with a cheaper cost on the campaign. Cmon was one of my favorite publishers but this is where I stand and draw the line with other backers. Glad I did $1. No game is worth this.
In Australia, Australian Consumer Protection Laws ensures you can't "sign your rights away" And companies selling into Australia are bound by our laws.
Hey Alex, thanks for covering it on your channel and giving your insight on the situation. To me it's not just about the question if the game is worth it to me, but do I want a high discrepancy of shipping between campaign phase and pledge manager to become common practice in future campaigns. All I can do to prevent that is to (politely!) voice my complaint and vote with my money. I would also like your opinion on cmons handling of this higher shipping cost. Or better, the lack of it. For example not offering solutions for backers like collecting shipping at a later date or offering left over shipping costs as a credit, in case the shipping rates fall (as they are projeted to do). And also cmon not offering backers the option to gradualy increase their pledge and keeping the pm open for a longer period of time or reopening it between shipping phases, as other publishers have done. All of that would help backers mitigate monthly expenses on an expensive product.
It boils down to can you afford it and do you really love marvel that much to put down the deposit equal to that of a on a car ? Only you can make that decision.
Fantastic video as always. Lots of great info in here. My question: You say that you understand the need of the company to do certain things with so much on the line, but it's at the cost of the relationship. How much do you think that relationship is worth and do you think it was worth destroying it for so many in this instance? Still watching so sorry if this gets answered later :) It's an interesting pull in two directions!
You like coffee as much as I do. Enjoying a cup right now watching you ramble... which I also love! I'm in the third camp- no horse in this race, I just watch all your videos. I also really respect how you do these in one long take. Thanks Alex, you are awesome!
The new content for TMB along with the Trove Chest cost $10 shipping. TMB is much heavier and larger box-wise. Right now, I’m still in shock. If CMON would’ve been upfront about shipping prices, I would’ve been able to better weigh my options and decide whether or not to invest. Lesson learned. No one forced me to back it and now I know.
Alex, you mention your shipping costs for all in being reasonable, and I agree they arent outrageous for what you are getting. Now take into consideration what others are paying for much smaller pledges. I am in Canada and only backed the Resistance Pledge….so picture 2 base sized Zombicide boxes with the stretch goal box. For single wave shipping they want $100usd and two-wave $180usd. The estimate was $36-57usd (single) and $60-87usd (two wave). This is 60% above estimate. I do commercial quoting for a living and I will tell you that I would not have a job if I was off by 60% with my customers. As well, I can ship a loaded skid across Canada for $200cad. I get that it is a bit different as the product is shipping all over the world, but even at a simple $100usd per pledge, Cmon is pulling in $3M in freight fees (and that is being modest). I can add a whole extra Resistance Pledge and it only changes my freight by $20usd so it definitely feels like they are using the base freight to either profit or more likely, possibly make up for losses on previous campaigns that they estimated too low. I am sorry, but $100usd for a box the size and weight of Perseverance (which I only paid $25usd freight on)is a bit beyond outrageous.
That being said, I like your mention of buying more pledges to flip. I’m thinking maybe another Resistance Pledge at only $20 extra freight will subsidize my purchase…. That or find somebody that wants in on the pledge with me in my area
Fun story: If I want to send something to China from Germany I have to pay 10 bucks easily. My Arnak compass collection came for just 2 $ from Aliexpress secondary seller. Shipping that in Germany alone would be more expansive. How comes that shipping a pledge is even more expansive than me shipping something private? Sure - someone wants to get paid for packing the stuff as the parcel prices are just transportation. Of course the fulfillment center will have to make a cut. But they have contracts for lower shipping prices than a private person. And why do we have to pay VAT on shipping? I do not pay the target destination tax on shipping when sending a parcel from my location as I pay where I am and not where I want the parcel to go. Or did you ever put a stamp of your country on a postcard, when you are sending them during your vacation in a foreign country?! Seeing retail shipping prices of a localized version in Germany... usually no shipping if your cart value is higher than 29/49/100 Euros.... easily done.... VAT is included in the way our prices are "created", in retail games are usually published at a reduced price already so that you save shipping in minimum but mostly on total price (game + VAT) as well.... High Shipping prices increased by VAT on shipping even more are the reason I will pass on most kickstarters.... I bought Great Western Trail for 23 € in retail. Why should I pledge for a 150 $ game which costs me 208 $ when 25 $ shiping is VATted as well.... easy pass.... even considered that retail prices are closer to 60 € than 30 as they used to be a few years back... Simple as that. :)
Love the positivity of this video. I agree that you shouldn't let the shipping prices sour your experience if you were going to pay them anyway (this describes my boat). In any case, I started KS with late pledging MUX. And now I'm already completely done with KS. Just not for me. But I don't regret my KS "binge", it's been a fun experience, and as a huge marvel fan, I'm grateful I had it when I did. MU/MUX and MZ are the two KS projects I'm most excited about.
I fall, as you mention, in the 3rd camp - I don't care about any of these pledges. I think that ordering this many boxes in 1 go, without ever having played the core box, IS STUPID. I laugh, a lot, when I see these giant piles of boxes for sale on Marketplace after these get shipped. These Kickstarter/Gamefound pledges are reaching a fever-pitch and those being affected are entirely in a world of their own creation. These are, like you say, very much a 1st world problem. But, about your video and take on this situation, great job. Level-headed and a practical look at both sides.
I'm glad that I've skipped this campaign because the final price for the All-In with shipping to me (Estonia) and taxes is above 1k$. It's something insane. I'm definitely not counting to have to pay another 400$ when already backing the 600$ in the game
Shipping prices aren’t going to drop anytime soon and predicting them in 9 months would be impossible. We enjoy our games being made in China for cheap, if they were made in America or Australia they would be 5 times more expensive.
GW moved theirs to the UK. Lots of good games manufacturers starting in Eastern Europe. Superior product hands down. Archon Studios is a good example. Backed a few and they are as good as top tier.
I didn't end up backing this one, but I think the low tier and 2 wave shipping (you mentioned) things are the ones that make me feel like people are getting screwed, $50 for 1 core box and probably 1-2 boxes in stretch goal addons is crazy. I just finished backing three campaigns, One that will probably have a similar amount of boxes (2-3 Sleeping Gods New tier), shipping was around 16. And also Wayfarers of South Tigris (which will probably just be one box) came in around $9. But I also have a theory for CMON, that the backers are paying the entire cost of the container because there are so many backers, that the entire shipping container is for this campaign. Often game publishers get to do a larger run than the campaign, and that will sit around for surplus for retail (for the next X months/years), so it isn't justified for them to charge the cost of the whole container to early backers, but in this case I think the entire container (maybe even 2 required) is for this campaign.
Fair video as usual. Nice approach. I'm in the camp of I wouldn't have done it. I reevaluated it and thought about just getting the base game and it was $198 to California. It just isn't worth it to me. I know it would hold its value and I could sell it, but I don't particularly like dealing with selling games. On the shipping cost, the only way I can see that CMON gets to those prices is by including the container cost from China to make a 'full cost of shipping' number. I can't see a core only box costing ~$70 to California from a stateside hub. I ended up requesting a refund.
It was painful for sure--it's even more expensive in California. I opted to go for single wave shipping because I have enough games to play between now and its arrival, but I do hope that CMON and other companies will present even more conservative estimates for shipping in the future.
I paid 35 dollars for shipping masters of the universe, this is with multiple expansions. It is supposed to deliver at the end of the year. I wonder if they are charging so much on zombicide to make up for what they are losing on masters of the universe?
I just want CMON to put some freakin padding into the shipping boxes this time. It is frustrating to spend this much money on shipping when they don’t put any effort in protecting the product
@@BoardGameCo true but with X-men united I ended up having to spend over $100 for alternative solutions because most of my box inserts were destroyed (Thank goodness the Sentinel box was one of the few in good condition) I spent extra anyway. For Zombicide I was disappointed in the increased price but I expected it to cost extra so I am not upset with them over it except for the core box shipping price like you said. Now if they want to send both core boxes in wave 1……….
Also makes me more and more impressed that Chip Theory can do $15 flat rate shipping. Also, already paid a good chunk for Kingdoms Forlorn shipping, but I'm terrified of what that will be in two years since I don't see the situation getting better..
As a publisher myself shipping is a mess. As El Dorado Games stated in a recent video you don't know the costs until the very end. We ended up subsidizing all areas even more than we intended (eg 2$ less for US became like 5..and so on). Lessons learned and all that but I kinda get these crazy shipping prices for that amount of boxes. Still unbelievably high though. Not a backer of this campaign gladly
I think my biggest beef with this whole situation is CMON published what the freight costs would be during the campaign. Then, 3 months later, they more than doubled this price. Freight prices have not gone up more than 50% in the last 3 months...in fact, they've actually declined. There is NO reason for increasing the price at all...let alone to the extent that they did.
I'm watching and reading this and... Wow, what a twist. I mean - change in shipping prices (meaning freight and handling mainly) went up since COVID drastically, but not within last 3 months. It was at least 1,5 year if not full 2 when cargo went through the roof. Since then they are more or less high enough to know they are gonna by at some level. So the change is a bit fishy to me. What I noticed in two campaings is that one decided to delay opening of pledge manager to get better prediction of shipping prices and another, that already was after one wave of shipment and no really funds were to be collected, offered small bonus expansion that partially was to cover change in cargo prices and it was comunicated directly - you want to help us, here is a promo pack, you can buy and have another 1-2 hours of playing and we have some funds for the crazy shipping. But only if you want to. Which is in my opinion much much better way of handling such changes. And still, it was understandable for campaign, that collected money long before world situation changed. Ok, off to read comments on KS to kill some time. And Alex, thanks for the video and practical tips, much appreciated.
Another frightening thought Alex, is perhaps CMON is seeing how freight and shipping and handling charges will be increasing in 2023 and is just ahead of the curve, not behind it like so many failing KS campaigns?
I think we need to shift the conversation on this a bit. This isn’t about shipping costs. The numbers being thrown around here bear no resemblance to the shipping costs for any other similar scope campaign. This is about a post-campaign price increase on the base product. CMON wants an extra hundred for this game and they found a loophole way to tack it on. Only posting this here in the vain hope that someone actually sees it so maybe we can rally around that idea and write it down on a piece of paper and then nail it to the front door of CMON HQ like a modern day collective Martin Luther.
They ask me to pay $95 to get the damn Undead Pledge to my doorstep in a 1-wave shipping to Germany (vat+shipping vat included). This is nuts... Someone else mentioned the Undead Pledge costs him $130 shipping, and when upgrading to Resistance Pledge, they want an additional $150. How does this make any sense? The Core Box + Stretch Goals $130, 1 additional Box adds another $150 to a total of $280 just shipping... So just to recap this complaint. Shipping two small boxes in one package costs $130, but adding another small box into that same one package, costs $280? And we all know, these 3 boxes fits into the same package, as the Undead Pledge will be delivered in. And to sum up my own complaint, I would have to pay $220 to get the Core Box + Stretch Goals ($130 pledge), which would be the most expensive Core Box + a bunch of Kickstarter exclusives I've ever paid for. The Core Box will cost about 80-100€ or something I believe in retail. So the "free" Kickstarter stuff actually costs me about $120. What a great deal... So what would be the solution in my eyes? I think the deadline for 1-wave shipping shouldn't be in 2 months. On the other hand, there should be no refunds, if the game got produced, because that also would be unfair. Refund as long as no costs created yet. So I would expect to pay for my 1-wave shipping somewhere in March 2023, with current rates, but no refund options. And If I wanted to have a refund, I would have to decide soon. And btw, the PM isn't always the final deal. There are countless examples of projects, who asked for additional funds to get "that thing" delivered, because prices went up or whatever reason. And sometimes, they still are unable to deliver. I don't think that would happen with CMON, but it still is a possibility for the future.
Definitely doing $1 going forward for CMON. I can see them pivoting to exclusive items if you back x,y,z pledged level. Then $1 pledges either can't get it or have to pay extra. Shipping is making kickstarter less feasible with each campaign.
Yup... Base Pledge -> $75 for one-wave, $142 for two-wave in an urban area in Canada (GTA) --> vs their original $32/$46 estimate. I've had ALL-IN shipping costs of $19 from CMON before. (I know times are very very different). ODDLY ENOUGH - the shipping rate is established BEFORE they asked for my specific address, which is different than the past - normally, they ask that first, and shipping is determined afterwards (and comparing rates with others in the province, it's clear that it was variable rates depending on exactly where you lived. So here, shipping rates are FLAT by Country/possibly by province (the only info given before they provide shipping rate). For Canada, I can only guess they assumed the worst and that we all live in the Northwest Territories or close to Hudson Bay or something. :-) Since this is all in USD, I can't convert my $1 pledge to a full pledge in good conscience when I CAN BUY A CMON ZOMBICIDE CORE GAME AT RETAIL FOR THAT SHIPPING PRICE ALONE! Oddly enough, upgrading from base to a Hungry Pledge the shipping increases only marginally - $85 / $152. Since shipping in Canada is mostly based on weight - I'm not sure why this number isn't substantially different than a base game pledge. Here's to hoping they have a bad calculator in there and change it, because charging 220.5% of the shipping estimate (an estimate they established at the HEIGHT of the shipping crisis!) just sounds like a mistake.
Your assumption is that the method they use to determine shipping cost doesn't start on the high side to cover the instances where people are manipulating the system to find a lower rate. The lower rate could EASILY be the correct, or even an inflated rate itself.
@@BoardGameCo I agree. I'm just not starting with the assumption that they aren't overcharging. This product won't be shipping for a while. Prices could go up or down drastically by then. And there's no transparency about what will happen with the difference, or how much they are overcharging now to cover potential losses. Or how they were so far off in their initial estimates when prices have only decreased. It doesn't add up.
I don't feel cheated with Marvel Zombicide shipping. It was a shock to see my shipping double from what was estimated, but I recognize that shipping is absolutely ridiculous right now. I also didn't go for 2 wave. My shipping was estimated at around 80 and was finally 165 in the manager. I am not mad - a little disappointed, maybe - but it's an issue that everyone is facing, just maybe not to this extent. I also recognize that I am privileged by being in the US for it ONLY to be double but still be reasonable (as ridiculous as that sounds). Some International shipping rates were nearly the same as the pledge amount. Personally I'm in the camp that CMONs pedigree of lack of proper communication post-campaign is the problem. After the campaign, they just kept showing off new painted minis and added a new add on. When they realized that shipping was going to be much higher than originally estimated, they should have come out and say it. Let consumers know why its so significantly higher. Letting people find out in the PM isn't fair to consumers. You can get away with a lot of mistakes and bad news in crowdfunding by just having open and honest communication.
@@BoardGameCo not only that, but there's a discord going around to help people find others near them to group pledge together. If we had been given enough notice of the shipping craziness, I might have looked into that. As it was, I had already finished the PM before I heard about the group pledge option...
I have pretty much always backed for a dollar, mostly because I want to see the exact shipping prices (and nowadays the VAT as EU resident) before I put more money into a game. Only few specific games I have pledged full amount, and those have usualy been either giving the exact info beforehand (Thunder road vendetta) or are games that I will get, regardless what the shipping will be (marvel dice throne). It is just bad idea to pledge more than 1 dollar for Cmon games, as their shipping prices can be whatever, and the number they had (even before the Covid and rising shipping prices) for shipping on the campaign page, was often for base game box, and might still have been different in the PM. Also, never do 2-wave shipping. If you are frequent KS pledger, you most probably have some other game to play until the main wave comes. If you are not a frequent KS pledger, just go to a shop and buy another game instead of paying extra shipping. Or do something else until the game comes.
I found shipping prices from CMON to be extremely high even in 2018. Even when accounting for my location and the weight of all-in pledges, the shipping costs became prohibitive and I no longer back CMON projects directly. Unless there's a retailer pledge, I won't bother.
You are missing the point, people are angry because in the campaign they said an estimated price for shipping and only 2 months later they doubled the price, and there is no going back. The question is whether they did it on purpose or just because they were clumsy. What it is is a lack of respect for customers. Everything else you say is talk to say that you made a video on the subject.
Great video Alex! Completely agree with all of your points, and I'm right there with you in the "this sucks, but it's also the world we live in right now."
Right now with the current state of international shipping being so in flux i have a hard time entirely blaming them for this situation. Going forward companies are going to have to find alternative options for manufacturing because china is looking less and less viable for the boardgame industry. I really hope a lot of these companies can find a way to adapt cause these shipping rates are gonna kill a lot of companies.
As an Aussie not living in a large city and my shipping is almost $300aud (my pledge was about $500aud) which pisses me off. THEN, there is no guranantee that my models will arrive in one piece and if they arrive broken then i may not get replacements or refunds despite the huge amount of money i payed. I binned Guardian, Sentinels and Artist pack, to only pay half of the shipping costs. Which is just a shame this was the board game i was most keen for in a Looooooooooong time (since orginal Nemesis i think) and i wanted to use everything and my gaming group was keen to use everything and now i cant just to have to pay shipping. A Bunch of people have summed it up as it feels like cmon is trying to recope damage losses from MU and UaA more than just line there pockets, but i think just an honest open statement from CMON will go a long way to put out fires, but i dont even think we will get that.
The full pledge without Galactus..Hungry Pledge? Is $151 USD to me in Canada for 2-wave which is almost $200 if not bang on $200 just for shipping. Absolutely insane and I've never paid close to that even recently. I'm going to guess that CMON locked in their shipping price in case it went even higher so now they're locked in.
I think the problem is that shipping costs for the base pledge (core box) is double what the estimate was on their campaign page... just 3 months ago! My quote is $80 for the core box alone (with the stretch goals box) for one wave shipping, compared to $130 cost of pledge. At that point, why not just sell the stretch goals and let the backers pick up the base game at retail?
Just to add, estimate was $32-46... and I can add additional pledges for $9 for up to three core pledges (so it looks like they have a high basic handling fee). Also, I just back projects with shipping estimates due to the current situation on shipping, so this doubling of estimates over three months is bad practice imo. I wouldn't have backed the core if it had no estimate and now I'm stuck paying more or asking for a refund and losing 10%.
Looks like I'm getting out of Kickstarter projects as soon as I got into them. Will fulfill my current pledges but that be it. I'm now a part of the cult of the now which enjoys free shipping and I'm at level 9 at cool stuff so I get a sweet discount on that also. Too bad.
Thanks Alex, this was very helpful! I appreciate you putting this together, I am extremely excited for this game! Telling my wife of shipping costs will still not be a smooth conversation 😒 😂
What I do not like specifically about the marvel united Kickstarter is that everyone says that the expansions make the game so much better, like the sinister six mode is the best way to play, quoted by multiple dice tower members. The Problem is, that at least half of the characters are exclusive to Kickstarter, with no way to get them but paying extreme amounts of money if you could not back it, and for a game like marvel united, where variety of heroes and villains would greatly improve the enjoyment I would assume, it does a disservice to the people who could not back by making a good portion of the characters exclusive.
I’ve begun backing at $1- Hanamikoji was the one that solidified it for me, but the few games prior to that PM surprise that I backed were also at $1. There’s a couple of exceptions, but it also seems like campaigns that have been run this year are much less polished, much less certainly good than prior years
Ooof yeah, I saw that one. Shipping is more than the game right? I was in for $1 cause I want the playmat but that seems to have been put on the back burner
I don't know in other Europe countries, but at least for spain, for the Resistance pledge (240$), i'm greeted with a 60$ shipping (twice the value it was "estimated" on the kickstarter) plus another 60$VAT. The Hungry pledge jumps to 68$ shiping + the recalculated VAT. Then we add Galactus and that mic-drops a 90$ increase in shipping, plus the VAT, making an all-in cost almost 1000$ at least for spain. Tbh i'm not sure what to do... this hurts a lot and i'm absolutely riding the 1$ train from now on, at least for CMON. But on the other hand i don't think the shipping is "that bad" but in Europe looks like VAT is forking us very hard. Thank you Alex for this video, it felt somewhat therapeutic, i know i'm not alone, but this video helped me looked it with a more chill attitude.
The MonPoc shipping did something similar although not as extreme as this apparently. I stopped backing CMON awhile ago, mostly for their creeping add on syndrome when backing their earlier projects, but with these shipping costs, I'm more glad than I already was that I had done so. When I helped out with shipping at a prior company, we were charged for 'volumetric weight' from some carriers which means the shipping for a light but large box could cost more than a much heavier but smaller box. No idea if that applies here at all, but it may be part of it.
All those minis are horribly inefficient to store, pack, and ship. They may be $5 to make, but giant mostly-empty boxes are evil when shipping container space is at a premium. That's why WH40K always ships flat boxes you have to build. They're selling $3 of plastic in a big $30 retail box. Cheap shipping is the only thing that's enabled this behavior for so long.
I got my fingers burned with zombicide invader. While waiting for my KS to arrive, I went to the UKGE and it was on sale there, it was being pushed heavily by the asmodee (iirc) crew. I received my copy about 4 months later. The shipping fees were large, and that what put me off marvel zombies. Will wait till retail version hits.
Hello Alex, Just as information. Shipping to Europe: All In (no Galactus) Shipping Total (Single) $68.80 VAT $90.30 VAT Shipping $14.45 Total $173,55 As much as i love Galactus it was out of question because it was like $400 more (including VAT and shipping).
Shipping prices are really making it hard on Kickstarter creators. The big companies can handle it. People are still going to back those. And even if they have 1K $1 pledges, they are still going to fund at astronomical (to me) numbers. But it is really going to hurt the smaller companies and indie creators. We cannot afford that many $1 pledges. The game won't exist if folks don't back it during the campaign. That hurts. I wonder if there are any solutions for those creators.
I am in the camp of I believe these are the actual shipping costs( 2-wave single box sketchyness aside) my frustration is the double cost than quoted. I will likely switch from 2 wave planned to single wave for similar cost to quoted. I think they were probably scared to put $300 price tag for shipping quote so they made the choice to deal with the fallout. I think knew the quoted prices were low. I will now enter the "For a dollar" camp. Good luck all! There is also a shipping discord channel created to possibly combine shipping with others in your area.
I think shipping costs in some way is killing the boardgame industries. To be honest I think COMON took a hit with United:X-Men so now they are upping the cost to prevent future lost. Is this the best way of dealing with it, NO but do I sympathize with them...kind of. Pursuit of Happiness Big Box has been delay for a year due to shipping costs increase. But they ask the customer if they want to wait for the shipping costs to go down or pay extra. Collectively it is decided that we are waiting but extra cards are added for each week of delay.
I dont think people are so much upset about the shipping costs themselves. Like you said, its a lot of stuff. It's about the fact that these shipping prices were not openly stated upfront and appear to have been announced after the pledge period finished. So it feels purposefully deceptive to encourage more pledges, rather than giving full shipping estimates at the start that may have resulted in smaller sales.
Only games I back nowadays are the Garphill ones, the shipping is very low, you are just getting it a tad early + some promos, and they are very transparent about it.
the issue was that shipping costs have not jumped like their charges between the campaign and now, so why did they lowball the estimates so much when they already had an actual idea of the costs
My stance is one that understands that the shipping prices may be fair. But the blindside of those crazy rates means CMON is now a company I don’t trust.
I felt like shocked when I saw the shipping bill which came up to USD 156 (to Australia) and that’s like 36% of my total pledge (Xmen Marvel United). I felt like an utter fool for backing and this would be my first and probably last time backing CMON stuff. If you were to compare to Garphill pledges, it’s a flat fee no matter the pledge quantity. Which is pretty awesome and feels great to us as boardgamers to support such designers.
@@iansutton7416 they have switched to the standard size boxes. My latest pledge with them had a total of five separate shipments 2 boxes (3x collector boxes and 8x expansions) and 3 tubes of playmats. All came up to 16 New Zealand Dollars. I don’t know what magic Garphill games does but it’s great for consumers like us. You have to admit it’s a huge difference to what CMON is offering.
Things that should have been added. The campaign had higher prices to begin with and they screwed around with the stretch goals, radically changing it after 49 other campaigns run the same way. It was a problematic campaign from the beginning causing their previously loyal customers to become wary. Then the shipping blindside happened. I happen to be in a place where I can afford it, but it will be much more difficult for them to get my money in the future. Also, the aftermarket is dead for anything CMON since they killed any rarity by offering their extra inventory of KS exclusives in later clearance campaigns. CMON is evil because their communication with their customers is terrible, not because of a worldwide shipping crisis.
Shipping to me should only be for local delivery. The price of shipping containers and what not should be factored into the price because in order for games to go to retail this has to be done either way. CMON needs some transparency when it comes to this.
I’m new to board games. I paid two KS shipping of $50 thinking “yes shire shipping is expensive - still cheaper than 40k”. With time I realize a good board game is $50 - $100 with minis. Most expansions are a waste because people move through board games FAST! Like board gamers are speed junkies. In all the hobbies I have participated I have never seen a group of people use and discard things faster. I regret my last KS. Just buy retail at your Local store. Buy an extra game today instead of shipping for something you will get in over a year and probably play once.
You can back at $1 and a campaign can still get you on the hook before you know what the shipping costs are. Take the latest Resident Evil campaign, they closed their PM without shipping charges. We HAD to decide on Gamefound whether or not we would support the project. I get they anticipate a change in shipping cost and wanna cover their butts. Just want to point out there are campaigns weeding out those $1 pledges before shipping prices are revealed.
CMON doesn't have to charge shipping now, and should wait for closer to after production is done. This is either ignorance, idiocracy, or corruption, or all three. CMON has guaranteed they will have less backers in the future, especially full price backers. If people back, they'll more likely back at $1 and then if pricing is ridiculous, they can just lose the dollar. I bet this happens, and CMON goes and does something like require people to pledge $X to get access to the pledge manager and/or stretch goals. CMON is not to be trusted.
Shipping to Indonesia for Devourer Pledge is $410, but $150 for Hungry Pledge. So basically $260 to ship the Galactus. In the end I passed on Galactus.
All the legality and upcharge makes me wonder how much trouble the company is in financially from previous projects. It's hard to imagine that they weren't also hit super hard by shipping with the delivery of their most recent projects that delivered. Seems to me they have learned and are upping the charge to prevent such a huge loss to their profit margins while also potentially making up for some lost ground on previous projects. While it certainly sucks for backers, I think this is just a prime example of publishers doing everything they can to stay above water AND be around for future projects. Downside is that this will certainly muddy the water and result in losing the backers who are undoubtedly frustrated and/or outraged by the cost of games and shipping them.
I do honestly think these are closer to the actual shipping costs with CMON probably still losing money on shipping. But they could have just been upfront with it during the campaign.
Too many of the larger crowdfunding companies are taking advantage of their forgiving backers. Between setting up their companies as ponzi schemes, using crowdfunding as an interest free loan, and blaming their own poor planning on world events, I'm not backing as much. The comments sections are filled with apologists for them. The behavior will continue to get worse, prices will go up, and they will take more and more advantage of us the more we allow them to. There are still plenty of good companies out there and I continue to back them. I am also not talking about the smaller companies who truly use Kickstarter to produce a game they otherwise could not.
Crowd funding was meant for independent people to have a means to produce their art, game, movie, album, whatever that had no other means to do so. Established companies like CMON shouldn't even be using Kickstarter, really. They do it because they know they can exploit people with OCD by dangling carrots on sticks and fleece them for far more money than they would if they just made a game and released it in stores, which they are more than capable of doing. I remember when people gave Zach Braff shit for crowdfunding a film when he's an established filmmaker and actor that didn't really need to crowdfund his movie. For some reason, gamers are different. They seem to enjoy getting bent over by game companies and get mad when anyone points out that they're getting screwed. I look at how companies like Games Workshop and Wizards of the Coast and CMON treat their fans and it's astounding that they get away with it.
@@HarryBuddhaPalm 100% agree, we're actually part of the problem, if we keep rewarding this behaviour then there's no need for them to change. I'm guessing we're in a bubble right now. There's far too many new games and we've only got so much space. Something's got to give and CMON have added another crack in the dam.
@@HarryBuddhaPalm I am sorry but KS its self goal has always been for providing a platform for creativity. It did not mean it was for independent people do design or create things. It was made for any (person or company) who wished to make a creative project. "Kickstarter’s mission is to help bring creative projects to life That’s our mission. We’re a tool available to anyone (in the US and UK, currently) to fund and build a community around their creative project. Big or small, established or indie, serious or fun." Kickstarter blog back in 2013. KS has allowed several games that are from established game companies to be made that otherwise would never be started in retail. CMON has every right to be on KS. Just like Worthington Publishing, Compass Games, Reaper miniatures, Stronghold games, and the list can go on. If you don't like a company don't back them. I did not back Marvel Zombicide because it offered nothing new and the way the core boxes were divided so their carrot doesn't tempt me. If people are tempted by the carrot that is their issue and what they found value in. My friend backs things because all the shiny stuff. I ask him why and he says up front its his money to waste. I don't back Wizards of the Coast any more because I don't like them but most of my friends do. In the end maybe all these people are sadist. I don't mind established companies putting something on KS if they are offering me something new, creative or to pimp out game like Terraforming Mars did with their 3d stuff. Yes I agree I don't know why people complain when they get screwed. KS though was never just for independent people.
I backed at the Resistance level, getting both core boxes. It is already expensive as it is. Thought about adding expansions but how much am I going to be playing this game? I have Dead or Alive coming, do I need another Zombicide game?. The shipping is twice what was on the campaign. And then there's VAT (which I knew was coming). $140 total. Should I really be spending so much money on a single game? I am considering asking for a refund or simply downgrading my pledge. I can afford it but then: What can I do with $350 instead?
Im happy with my MZ pledge and when i got it everything was ok. Only thing bothered me was the Heroes Resistance box that was available after the campaign and was putting in retail versions of the heroes that were supposed to be KSE 💔
They have over charged on shipping to Alaska since Hate. Such a large company has to get a discount on shipping. When I'm able to save money by waiting and buying CMON games off ebay that's a pretty clear indicator they are over charging on shipping to me. I'm paying more for the game and way less on shipping from someone who isn't getting a fat discount because of the volume they are shipping.
