Fender Twin Reverb: Review, Tone Tips & More 

My father bought one used for me in the early 80s when I started playing guitar. It's a 1976 model that he got from a friend who played in a country band. I have to say as a teenager I was happy he got it but was disappointed somewhat as I was into to metal and hard rock. But now Im so appreciative of this amp, it's a true gem, I'm glad I kept it all these years as I just started playing again after taking too long of a break. Thanks Dad.

I tried a twin twice in my 17 years of exsistence. I love it, its fantastic, and the tone is just incredible. My family was far less excited.

Heaven to my ears. Whenever I try to dial in a clean sound my goal is to always emulate what an acoustic guitar sounds like. The Twin Reverb always delivers on that for me.

I'm still playing my 1966 twin reverb i bought when I was 15 years old. I have put it in the closet a few times over the years and tried out what the masses were talking up. I always go back and say I won't make that mistake again.

it's not that I can't afford one. It's that I can't afford the kind of place where I could use one.

I watched this so many times and finally ended up getting a Twin Reverb on your recommendation. (Got a ‘74 I’m fixing up) Even with your glowing review, I could not have been prepared for the religious experience of playing one face to face. It truly sounds like nothing I have heard before. I will keep this amp forever. Thanks so much for the inspiration!

I miss the authority and girth of my Twin. For all my club years I played a 73 Twin bought new, my 66/67 Telecaster, and one cable. That was it.

I am a Tele man but this video really really brought the strat alive - best clean strat sound i have ever heard ANYWHERE

I bought my very first twin today and I'm absolutely loving it! It's the '65 reissue and I got it for a steal to boot. So of course I had to come to Jack's channel and hear his advice and settings right. Great video Jack and I most definitely agree with your feelings on this great amp.

Glad to see some love for the Twin Reverb, great content Jack. I'm still playing through my 1976 Silverface Twin Reverb. I purchased that amplifier brand new in 1976 for only $400. I can't begin to state how reliable and robust that amplifier has been through the many decades of hard use. As the years went by our Son started using it daily. To date I've had it re-capped 4 times and can't remember how many tube changes its gone through. In the late 1980s I was able to squeeze in a pair of Electro-Voice SRO speakers. At that point the amplifier was as loud as it was heavy! Currently I'm running a pair of custom re-coned Oxfords that it came with. A great amp for sure, these days I'm running a dual amp setup with the Twin Reverb paired up with an old Plexi I have.

I’ve fallen in love with your channel! Thank you for being a joy to listen to Jack 🙏

To add the Fender Deluxe Twin Reverb is a superb pedalplattform, it takes pedals very very well and does play them like they should sound, thats why a lot of ambient and Post Rock players do use a deluxe Twin Reverb, the Reverb on the Fender is already heaven, but when you got Afterneath , Dark World, Blue Sky, Avalanche Run, Space Spirals, Immerse, Slö and so on its starts to get too cute to hold your tears.

Hell yes hell yes hell yes. Been waiting for this video for a long time.

Wow! You nailed it. That’s exactly how I feel about the Twin Reverb. The first time I plugged into one I was like yep that’s what I’ve been looking for all this time. It’s an experience for sure! I have the Tonemaster Twin now, and I love it! All the tone without the fuss of valves. I also have an old Peavey Chorus 240 watt 2/12 that’s solid state, and it’s an excellent clean platform. However it weighs about as much as a Twin. So, I’m so pleased with this new version that’s digital. I usually don’t like digital much, but Fender killed it with the Tonemaster Twin. It’s really mind blowing. If you haven’t got to try one yet, definitely give it a whirl. Anyhow, great video man.

The right Strat into the Fender Twin, its just right isn't it? summons up images of drive through movies, star light nights, paradise islands, warm self reflective moments, groovy jazz clubs at 2am, sailing on the waves for some reason, more than nostalgia, its the sound and the feeling that the tone creates, its very cinematic emotional reaction to it, both for the player and the listener, damn it, now I have talked myself into getting one beyond the emulation of the kemper...nice playing and cheers for the video.

Awesome tones... I got myself a 74 Silverface Master Volume 135w. Found my holy grail amp. Best clean tone ever, amazing reverb and excelent pedal platform. I see many people saying Twins are "too loud" you have some options, you can get yourself a vintage master volume or simply disconnect one speaker and take off the 2 middle 6l6 tubes, that way you get half the power of the amp and less volume. Ps there are many videos and guides online to do this Other awesome trick is to get an extra gain stage by disconnecting the reverb tank and jumping the reverb tank in and out with a rca cable that way your reverb knob becomes a gain knob

My first amp, Senior in High School, 1982, was a brand new 135 watt push - pull master volume Twin. Super loud. That, my Les Paul and a Tube Screamer and I was set. What a combo. I played in my first couple of bands and gigged out with that amp. Good times.

I have played rock through the same Twin Reverb for 50 years. Used it with a Fender Vibratone, Arbiter Fuzzface and a Maestro Boomer 2 wah-wah for years. Now use it with a Boss GX-100. And yes, it very heavy, but worth it.

Had my buddy take mine on the road for year..Brought it back in pristine condition.Speakers bloomed. 😊 lovely

my oldest brother was a musician, as were his, nearby, neighbor friends with whom he played in bands; before I ever knew how to play guitar, I knew about the Fender Twin Reverb. It was “the” amp. I want Fender twins for most of the time I’ve been playing music, and I currently own three. I never thought the amp was all that heavy; I just thought the weight was what a “real” amp weighed. Twin Reverbs are fantastic Amps. Thanks for this video.

I’ve had 3 Twin Reverbs (1976, 2016 ‘68 Custom, and another 2016 ‘68 Custom I acquired a week ago) and a 1972 Quad Reverb. I agree with your assessment and that I was also too immature to appreciate what I had. I love the ‘68 Custom Reissue that I just picked up and I lucked out. It is dead quiet and has an amazing tone. I pair it with an AC30 for that “rock” tone but it’s my deserted island amp. Not letting this one go. I’ve had my share of Voxs, tweed Fenders, Marshalls, etc. but I am always going back to the Twin Reverb sound.

I agree 100%. The reverb in my 64 sets the standard! I had put it away due to weight and driving a car that made it a pain to load. But recently had the ground switch replaced with a 1/2 power switch and then stumbled on to running it through a closed back cab. It’s now my favorite. So I’m going to build a head shell for it and I think it’s going to be my live amp for a while. Also the Klon KTR and humbuckers are a thing of beauty together! I used to think I didn’t like fuzz through…but now I’d say I don’t like fuzz through the stock C12NA’s in it. However through celestial style speakers it’s a whole new story.

I’ve had mine about 9 years. I appreciated this video.

I have a 1974 hand-wired silverface twin reverb that is 82 lbs. Playing outdoors in a 12 piece funk band though, where high volume, super clean tone is needed, I'm glad I have this thing sometimes.

Bought a new 65 Twin Reverb from Music Manor in August of 1965 and used it in my band The Revalleers at Ohio State for two years. I bought a 65 Jaguar at the same time. I still have both. The Twin has two D-120 F JBL speakers. Met the Beach Boys on a plane in 1975 and told Mike Love and Carl Wilson that I used to play their music including Surfing U.S.A., In My Room, Help Me Rhonda, and Do You Want To Dance. Mike asked me what instrument did I play and I told him that I played a Jag just like Carl and we all shook hands.

Never understood what the big deal with these were until I ended up with one. Partners parents had a 71 twin and a 65 vibrolux sitting in their basement and said “take your pick” I decided bigger was better knowing nothing about fender amps but even tho black faces are more “desirable” I couldn’t be happier with my twin. It just feels alive I’m inspired to play more than ever with it. Long story you didn’t ask for over, great video man!

I received my Twin Reverb from a used music store for under half price of new ($599). I knew who had sold it to the store, and he had just purchased the amp brand new less than a month prior, but had an emergency situation come up and had little choice but to sell it. Got my first job in order to raise the money to buy it. Still have it.

Great video as always Jack. You sound great through the Twin Reverb, as do a great many others. I have and will enjoy music made with it, but I don't want one. For my own playing I like a fuller & rounder sound. If I could have one of your amps it would be the VHT D 50.

Don't forget Robbie Krieger of The Doors. He used a Twin remarkably well too!

I had an original 1965 Blackface Twin that I left behind in a studio in 1981. One week ago I was reunited with my old friend, fully restored. Christmas came early this year!!! My old friend....

You get such a great tone out of that amp. Makes me want one!

Great video! I had a twin back in the mid 70s! And my friend who is my drummer just found one for me for $50 the other day !

I just ordered one yesterday after I plugged my Les Paul into it at the store. After hearing the depth of the tone along with the responsiveness of the tone controls I didn't want to even bother with anything else. I'm looking forward to swapping out my speak on my Blues Deluxe reissue to see what that will be like. Thanks for the video Jack.

Got my first Twin in 1965 and played it a lot until it was stolen in 1982, so then I got a new Twin which I still play and love. Only negative is it weighs a TON. I can't pick it up at 70 years old so I have a bunch of smaller amps now.

My 67 with Altec Lansing's is out being gone thru. Hasn't been gigged with since 1974 and I am stoked to get it back.

I'm happy with my Fender 2014/15 Hot Rod DeVille 410 III and '59 Bassman LTD. Both have 4 x 10" speakers and 2 6l6's and a solid state rectifier in the DeVille with a tube rectifier in the Bassman. I still want the '65 Twin! They are getting kind of expensive for me though. Hopefully in about 2 more years. I'm 71 this month March 2021. Don't throw things at me, but my second hand Fender Frontman 212R 100watts at 4 ohms, 2 50 watt 8 ohm speakers (with the square lettering) sounds really good too! I play them all back to back so I speak from experience, I would never have guessed it.

Although I'll never own one of these, I really enjoyed your video. Master clean tones!

Good work Jack! You said @ 16:45, "putting a gain pedal into the front-end of the 2nd channel (with the reverb "on") kinda' changes up your game because there is no effects-loop." Do you simply suggest turning off the reverb and tremelo (knob settings on zero) when using pedals? Or just use the 1st channel when using pedals (like you said in the beginning)? Thank you Jack.

I agree with the observation that drive pedals can "sit on top" of the tone rather than fully integrate with it. Phenomenal cleans though and the mid heavy drives get on well

great topics, suggestions and discussion. Picked up.. well, wheeled off lol, an 81 twin a couple weeks ago. I've come to find this is the only sound i care about. awesome amp, have so much to learn with it too.

You’ve said it all!!! Love this amp!!!

Nice passionate video of the Holy Grail of amplifiers IMHO. Beautiful tones from the Strat, Tele and Gibson, not to mention very nice playing.👍 I had a 70s silver face Twin Reverb from around 2000 to 2008, I used to transport it in the back of my Camaro, I was strong back in those days, LOL! Played it at many outdoor gigs wonderful tone! It started giving me trouble took it to the repair shop spent a lot of money to get it fixed, and it work great for couple more years then it started breaking down again back to the shop for repair, finally sold it for cheap, over the last several years bought and sold various amplifiers, until I purchased A 70s silver face deluxe reverb, another very fine amplifier, gigged with that for the next several years, until a divorce motivated me to sell all my amplifiers, and a lot of music gear until I got settled, so last month, bought a solid-state 100watt quilter aviator with 210 inch Celestion speakers, played a few outdoor gigs recently with it and it held its own with the volume and very good tone for a solid-state amp and much lighter weight at about 34 pounds.but still does not quite compare to an all tube Fender amplifier. So the search continued and like a miracle, I came across a 15 year old fender twin reverb 65 reissue in excellent condition for a nice price and bought it, and once I plugged into it with my Stratocaster and those first few Chords that I strummed it was like Eureka! Like I came home again, I just thought to myself wow, there’s that old familiar beautiful full-bodied sound and glorious tone that I remember! So it’s like full Circle homecoming.😊🙏👍

Opening licks remind me of John Butcher, nice job on the strat! If wishes were amps, I would ride on a Twin Reverb! My friend in college let me borrow his one semester, I opened the windows and rocked the whole Quad, and slipped a lumbar disc! Great amp! For now I live vicariously through a Tech 21 SansAmp Blonde (I also like the Tumnus Deluxe with the 3-band eq. knobs)

Was it because it was too heavy? I did then bought a light tweed Twin Reverb in 1981 and had it since along with my Hot Rod, Blues Deluxe, Blues Jr., Princeton, Champ, Marshall DSL 50, Boss Katana,

Yeah, it sounds so damn good.

I bought my twin it sounded so amazing in the store, I knew this was a rare find. It turned out that it had a bad tube, the failing tube caused a wonderfully natural overdrive I loved (When I turned it off there was a very loud click). The bad tube completely failed and when I replaced it, it did not sound as good. I still like it, the clean is quite nice, I would like to mod it though back to what I had...

Nice!!! I'd love to see you A/B it with a Dual Showman (b/c that's my amp, naturally). And right-on with gain stacking pedals! I'm currently driving a level-up-gain-low OCD into a PlexiTone (Lo- gain verson). I need to be able to play my clean parts loud in my driving rock band. Going between like a rock-a-billy clean and punk. My dual showman works for that... as I imaging the Twin Reverb would as well. And like Glen below, I also use the Tech 21 Blonde when I can't use the amp. Love the mediterranean pool metaphor!!

wow that sounds incredible. i have a Blues Jr which I thought had a pretty decent clean sound.

I tried this amp and it does capture the cleans and high tones in a very crystal sparkle way the other fenders amps could not capture. But what is it? the type of components inside? The speakers?

I had a Twin Reverb when I was at university and I wasn’t using it cos I started playing bass a lot and then was struggling to pay rent, so I sold it. It was a gorgeous amp, I miss it. So heavy though!!

The twin has been a dream amp of mine for a long time but could never justify having something that heavy and that loud. Then a few years ago I got the tone master twin and I love it. It’s been a long time since I’ve played a real twin but the tone master inspires me just like I remember it. I’ve sold all my other amps and am convinced it’s the last amp I’ll ever need. I also like using it for my J bass with the bass cut and if you have a good 7 or 10 band eq with a volume and gain it’s a decent and totally useable monitor and live speaker for drums and midi keyboard and other things. It’s also pretty decent for miking vocals or an acoustic. I play the oboe and have been having fun experimenting with using it as a better way to record oboe and clarinet and sax as opposed to just going straight in to an interphase.

I've played through one and it was a joy. I would just be afraid of hurting my back trying to lug it around or get it into my basement up and down the stairs.

I put two neo speakers in it, Jensen Vintage Neo and a Celestion creamback Neo. Weight around 25 kg. Sounds perfect 😊 Also got my "amp doctor" to put a master volume on the back.

I got one 20 years ago for 800 dollars and I still have it, its soars with my tele or my Strat or my jazz master or my Ibanez...so tasty.

Jack, What speakers are you using in your 65 reissue? Any other modifications? Did you adjust the bias? I have read that some re-issues come from the factory with the bias on the cold side. I’ve been listening to some vintage 60’s Twins and listening to you, I thought you were playing an original hand wired 65…Thanks.

My favorite all around amp for everything.

I owned a Fender Twin. Very heavy. I also had a 67 Les Paul Deluxe and I stacked the Twin on top of a 4x12 Fender Bassman cabinet. Twin was pushing six 12's and damn it was loud. Later on a few years later, I got out of rock and roll, sold the guitar and the amp and used the money to buy my first Harley-Davidson. Still riding but not the same bike.

Sounds so fat and luscious with the Gretsch, love that tone.....

Been searching far & wide for “small” amp that felt great… epiphany happened when I felt power the Twin provides to hear/feel nuance - even at low volume. You don’t get that with small amps. The Twin FEELS amazing (almost like feeling weightless). A 15” neo Jensen speaker in a twin is something special (and lighter weight too). It easier to play & sound better when you hear/feel the nuance of tone (rather than just the sound). You have to experience it in person before the lightbulb goes on and you get it.

I only play at home. However the twin clean sound is THE sound to me. Do you think it’s worth getting one for home just to play clean at low volume? Considering a tone Master but it’s not like those are much cheaper anyway

My 1st real amp, had a li'l fender sidekick reverb that I bought off a friend in high school that Iuv'd so much so I saved up all my $$ working at pizza hut all summer to get a twin reverb & have had it since 1994. It's been through hell but we've had sum goodtimes together. Still gig with it & if I decide to get another it'll probably be a music man 2x12.

Great playing and amazing tones. I got a mint ‘71.

Hey Jack, long time listener first time caller, question, do you know what spring pan you have in your ‘65? I wanted to replace mine with a surfy pan I had laying around to see if I could get more “drip” long story short it’s not compatible with the ‘65 TRRI. But I was surprised to find that it already had a made in USA accutronics pan. Yours sounds phenomenal and I’m wondering if it’s the same

OK, I've a got a couple of questions that I've wanted answers to for... oh, 30+ years. Both of these relate to my never playing very loudly. I bought my Fender Twin (not the Fender Twin Reverb, whatever difference that makes) in 1989. It was the floor model, so I didn't get any instructions or anything with it. For example, I burned out the first set of tubes very quickly because no one told me what the standby switch was for. Anyway, the questions: First, should I choose the Hi or the Lo setting on the output switch? Second, sometimes (especially in the last year) the damn thing is unbearably loud. I've sort of got the problem solved by balancing the two volume knobs on my guitar, but it doesn't sound all that great. So, am I going to have to shell out money for a volume pedal to solve this problem?

I have my mentors 64 twin reverb. it takes pedals so well on top of the clean tones....I take it everywhere with me when I play. Got to have it. It's got that mojo....It even made me put my 58 super down ...

This is my dream amp!

How high do you have to play for it to sound good? can you have it as an exercise amplifier at home or does it sound too loud? How does it sound with overdrive, is it also good sound? Considering buying a 😁

I have a '71, and I ordered it with JBLs because in those days I was having trouble with blowing up speakers. I still have it. It was too loud to crank to distortion anywhere I ever played it except for outdoor gigs. I did play it onstage for 15,000 hours but I used it as a keyboard amp. I bought a Crate IIR for guitar.... 60 watts with a master volume. I think the Twin would have been better with a master volume... I worked with a guitarist who had a Music Man twin with a master volume and he got fantastic tone with a Jaguar straight into the amp.

Jack, What do you think of the Greer Lightspeed OD, supposedly a transparent "organic" pedal for a Twin 68 reissue? Occasionally, I like some gain, but I want to keep the basic tone of the Twin.

I had Crate combo amps starting out (yeah I’m getting old.) but around 2006, I found a coworker selling his 1994 TRRI for $800. Just for kicks, I offered him $550, and he took it! First time I plugged in my 2002 American Strat, I remember thinking, “Ah, there’s the tone!” Pure Yellowledbetter vibes!

since you mentioned an attenuator: does it work well with that? could pick one up cheap but really want to keep living in my building...

Yes I own one. Love it.

HEAVY, so I replaced the cab with pine, and separated the speakers to a separate cabinet. The amp is as a head, and the tonal qualities are enhanced. Best amp ever made. Love it.

I love your videos!! Can you please compare the Fender deluxe reverb 65 and the Hot rod deluxe?

Sounds fantastic

I have a 64 twin a 75 twin and bass100 , my 64 was played by a old union guitarist, played behind a lot of old big names in the 60s and 70s

King of the rock amp as well

This Friday 28th I'm going to Guitar Center and will purchase the Hot Rod tweed or without the tweed style. Fridays at 7pm I'll perform my original Gospel songs at the Baobab theater! Happy Days Ahead. Also I will use it at my recording studio!

Do you believe a univibe pedal through the twin would sound any good?

Is it possible for you to do some finger picker and not ripping strings. Maybe something on the Chet Akins style so we can really hear the amp

Hey Jack, love your videos ... thanks for posting! Was wondering if you could do an amp review on the Brugera Vintage 22...? Curious about your take on this amp... Clean...? And if you wouldn’t mind playing one of your Epiphone. Casino through it... ? Much appreciated, thanks Jack!

I love this amp but it is just a beast, and the best qualities are in the higher volume range. Do you think an Oxbox or something could bring it down a bit without messing with the foundation?

My very favourite amp.

I love the sound of the fender twin and found a really good price on a vintage one, but I'm not a gigging musician,should I still go for it?

I've just bought a '72 black panel converted twin with JBL orange speakers... I can't wait to get stuck in.

What speakers are in your amp? Is it the Jenson C12ks that are in the ones you can buy today or have u changed them?

I have a 67 Pro (mini twin) Amazing clean tone

Thank you 🎉🎉🎉

My 65 TR ri is much more controllable (volume) than my HR deville 212. So I’m wondering if my TR has had any modifications because I can play at 3 to 4 in my house without having to raise your voice while speaking but when raised to 5 and above it’s a different beast. Just saying

I’ve owned a few different amps: a vox ac15c1, vox ac4c1, supro 1606, fender bassbreaker 15, fender pro jr iv, fender vibro champ black panel, vibrolux reverb custom black panel, Roland jc40 and a black panel twin reissue. There were things I loved about each individual amp, although I wound up keeping the pro jr iv tweed, vibro champ, vibrolux custom, jc40 and my twin. Of all amps I’ve tried the twin works best for me. The only flaws are how heavy and loud it is but the beautiful cleans, lush reverb and lively trem make for my favorite amplifier that I’ve ever used. It takes pedals better than any other amp I’ve used, it is essentially akin to water, as water becomes whatever you pour it into as Bruce Lee said. Sure it’s not for heavy metal guys, but for what I do, there is no greater amp in its price range. I lust after a dumble sss clone of some sort but don’t have that kind of money to blow on a single amplifier.

Hey Jack, if you think a Twin is heavy, try a Vibro King. On the plus side, it has the 3 X 10's you like in a Fender amp and it has a presence that fills a room beautifully.

I love my Twin-Reverb. Just wish sometimes I could have the volume over one and a half 😬

I had a fender twin along time time ago I lost it to a pawn shop ... it devastated me... but being a broke young person sometime life teaches you harsh lessons.. a blues guy once said “ if your guitar hasn’t spent time in a pawn shop... it can’t play the blues!” But after 30 years I now want another one ... good vid

I'm dying hahaha 10:52 I do actually want to hear this amp through the gain ranges though. I like to set my amps just on the edge of breakup, so that they're beginning to compress. Hitting the strings hard should have a little bite. I know it's seen as a clean amp, but how high of a setting on the volume knob does it take to get the amp to that point? I'm not scared of volume.

I am trying to make up my mind between FENDER REVERB and Tone king imperial. For creamy blues sound. Any tip from anybody. (As in my little hometown i cant test any. Thanks

No I personally haven’t tried the new Tone Master twins. I’ve watched a few RU-vid videos on it, and I have mixed feelings on it, in my opinion, the pros: they look beautiful like the real deal, much lighter weight, possibly get more different tones from it, and more affordable than a brand new 65 re-issue. The cons: made in China, the tone is close, but not quite exactly like the real deal Twin according to my ears when compared with the real Twin via RU-vid videos. The real Twin had more presents and chime. Also, one of the guys on the video said that they could not get it to feedback as easily as the real all tube Fender Twin Reverb. Still no substitute for all vacuum tube tone IMHO! BTW, just had my first outdoor gig last Saturday with the new old fender twin reverb 65 re-issue and it sounded glorious, had the volume just a little over 4! And 60% of the time I ran it clean with a boss DD five delay pedal and the exotic EP boost and the reverb set around 3.5, using my 1994 American 40th anniversary fender Stratocaster and OMG!! Tones, bottom end, full presence and chime for days! I was in heaven! And then for some of the heavier rock guitar solos I stepped on a tube screamer and TC electronics dark matter distortion both dimed on the gain setting, with some occasional usage of my new crybaby WAH 95Q, and it turned into a different glorious sounding beast of an amplifier with great feedback when I wanted it, Wow! I was quite a happy camper for that gig to say the least! That being said, it is a heavy Amp especially in my older days, but well worth the big tone when you need it. I used a four wheel flat wooden dolly to move it from my car to the stage area, LOL!

All my favorite punk bands use fender amps: hot rods, twins, batsmans, deluxes. I think using a specific amp for a style of music is largely a misnomer. It’s so about how you use it: pedals, guitars, volume, all come into play. Fender amps have a naturally grungy sound to them because they’re so big sounding

Jack, if you had to choose between the Twin Reverb and the Princeton Reverb, which one would you choose?

I recently switched to playing a Fender Twin for my band. Previously I played an Orange Rocker 32 and a Rockerverb 50 MKIII Combo stacked together or by themselves. Both of them were incredible amps especially together but I poked out in the mix way too much and it was very direct,it sounded great but it wasn’t really appropriate for the genre I was playing( we are a post punk, psych, indie rock band) When I played the Twin we sounded so much better and I guess cooler lol The Twin is more so a feeling than a sound. The Rockerverb is technically a better amp but The Twin is more of a team player amp and in my opinion better from a songwriting perspective. Its beautiful and can take anything you throw at it and there is a reason it’s been on so many records.

Been touring and recording with a 65 TR reissue since 1994 (before I was a Marshall and Hiwatt guy)