Festool KS 120 Kapex ~ Love at First Sight

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Festool KS 120 REB KAPEX ▶ bit.ly/2QNsCRF
Dan Cox ▶ www.essential-...
Check out Dan Cox on Instagram
/ roofing_square_dan
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MORE ON THE KS 120 FROM FESTOOL
Guides left, guides right. Even where others only pretend to do so. With spherical bushings on both sides to offer a double layer of protection in terms of keeping the carriage precisely on course across extra-large columns. Double-sealed for an extremely long service life, always exact and with zero play.
• Twin-column guide with two bearings for unique precision
• Dual-line laser for an accurate indication of the cutting line
• Fine adjustment of the saw blade angle accurate to the millimetre from the front of the machine
• Special cutting position for cutting depths up to 120 mm
• FastFix saw blade changing for adaptation to the working material
• Twin-column guide for accurate cuts
• Precision angle transfer via bevel and dual-line laser
• Compact, lightweight design for convenient transportation
• Safety brake
Achieve ideal results more quickly:
Perfect seating from the very first cut thanks to exact marking of the cutting width via dual-line lasers and precision adjustment for angled cuts accurate to the millimetre
Convenient and safe:
Does not take up much space and never gets in the way, thanks to its compact design with no protruding guide rods
Innovative down to the finest detail:
No need to change saw blades and no set-up time thanks to the extra mitre position for expanding from a cutting depth of 88 mm to up to a maximum cutting depth of 120 mm
==========================================
#Festool #KAPEX #MitreSaw
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Опубликовано:

1 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 129

@skf957 3 года назад

I asked them, and they sent me a free one. And a Domino - in both sizes. Then I woke up.

@imdking01 3 года назад

Hahaha 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

@TheSadButMadLad 3 года назад

"I think we could describe you as a Festool fanboy" as he stands there in his work clothes which have the same colour scheme as Festool.

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

It’s regarded as same same but different..

@iantarncarpentry4285 3 года назад

What a fantastic bit of kit! I’ve had a guided tour around the 120 and I have to say it’s so well thought out and easy to use!

@vinnysurti 3 года назад

Looks like a proper bit of kit if needed daily, however I can’t justify the price tag as would use it once a month max. My budget Evolution has done me proud so far...👍🏽

@sally6457 3 года назад

When your evolution blade needs replacing, try a freud blade, it will make an already good tool outstanding!

@diarmuidkelly9079 3 года назад

Nice saw but I have to say I do love me DeWalt 12” cordless mitre saw.

@gnshp8167 3 года назад

Festool has fantastic tools but all of them are pretty expensive. I only use their router and track saw but he is right i would never buy a drill from them.

@marcelboogaard3809 3 года назад

Don’t ever buy a cordless jigsaw from festool either. Flimsy and the light combined with the sawdust that gets trapped where the blade is creates strobing and you can’t see. Pony.

@tinman7781 3 года назад

Best saw I ever used was my bosses old Elu . Belt driven silent assassin. Not an ounce of plastic on it.

@SkillBuilder 3 года назад

You are not wrong, those saws are collectors items now

@vidviewer100 2 года назад

Yep Elu was the best. I have a small Elu belt sander that I used for site work for many years. It packed up a couple of years ago and I couldn't get the parts....sad day

@RpR_Makes 3 года назад

Great saw. However, their customer service sucks big time. I sent my saw back to them as I did not think the dust extraction was that good. They sent it back a few days later and had managed to trash my saw, even to the extent it no longer worked. The plastic casing at the back was smashed, the casing to the gear housing was smashed ad the thing was dead. They did repair it but there was no apology despite over 20 emails to them. In the end they never even acknowledged me. Shame really as the saw was lovely to use and gave a fantastic cut.

@fireblaster9961 3 года назад

Let’s be honest these saws are designed for people 2nd fixing so its set up in one room for a few days or someone fitting like 30k kitchens that warrants the price tag. i wouldn’t say no to one but I can’t see where I’d put it in my van lol

@davewright9312 3 года назад

It's really a workshop saw you really don't want to be mailing that monstrosity around... I have an 18v Fewaly that I use for site work dies almost everything I want. Its only very occasionally that I have to mail my bits off with a big corded saw. Can't help but feel the site is becoming just an advert for festool... As many other sites are.

@davewright9312 3 года назад

Bloody hell predictive text has been on the beer... Should saw DeWalt saw

@sally6457 3 года назад

The purpose of an electric maitre saw on second fix is to increase speed while maintaining accuracy, Festool would need to double my speed ( I look after and regularly calibrate/sharpen every tool I own) To be worth the price!

@punxneverdead666 3 года назад

Got mine about 8 years ago payed for its self first few jobs. Whenever I use another chopsaw it just feels so horrible.

@paulfinnonjoinery 3 года назад

ive been using my 110v kapex for 5 or 6 years now. its not used every day.. but it does get regular use. mint bit of kit. mine is canny noisy though. but ive never actually compared side by side with anyone elses. my mate has got a dewalt flex volt mitre saw with the 2 batteries. that is an absolutely cracking bit of kit. it doesnt quite have the refinements of the kapex..... but in all honestly some youll never use and some ya can get by without. plus in my experience the shadow light system on the dewalts is way way better than the lasers on the festool. ive only ever used one makita mitre saw which was an equally decent bit of kit. they all seem to have their plus points i guess

@NomenNescio99 3 года назад

The handle seems a bit uncomfortable to use on this saw.

@saulgoodman2018 3 года назад

Yep.

@badninja1971 3 года назад

My two dewalts both died in one week, both replaced with dewalts. 10/12 years of use, happy.

@gjvdspam 3 года назад

Have the ks 60. Absolutely love it. Very very precise. Uses the shadowlines, there spot on. Is it worth the money? It gives me a smile every time I work with it.

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

Exactly, when you pull the trigger you know where your hard earned cash went... the KS60 is a great compact saw.

@billy4072 3 года назад

What van does he carry it in? Transit, vivaro? No , an armoured one 💡🙄🙁

@JamieVauxnut1 3 года назад

Exactly the same as myself own Festool corded tools, mitresaws, plunge saw, roughter and domino. Everything else i own is Makita other than a Fein multitool and paslode/spits. Definitely the best saws on the market

@SteveAndAlexBuild 3 года назад

That is a well thought out piece of kit 👌🏼does it cuts bricks 🧱🤔🤣 brickies can’t afford them anyway 🥺😁

@keithwiddows2391 3 года назад

I don’t think it would fit in your bucket 😂😂

@SteveAndAlexBuild 3 года назад

@@keithwiddows2391 😏😆🧱👍🏽

@ramellin 3 года назад

I think we could describe it as an overpriced tool

@galvanizedgnome 3 года назад

Tradesmen in Europe seem so posh. Our American craft are like goblins

@peakproofuk 3 года назад

You’re hearing that accent as posh?!!!! ;-)

@berenlea486 3 года назад

Nah just want what we build to last more than a couple decades

@ramellin 3 года назад

So you think their tools make them some kind of elite tradesmen boy are you wrong

@ThisTall 3 года назад

I love everything about my new Kapex except that the max material thickness you can cut at a left or right compound angle is 2” before the guide rail hits the material.

@I-am-not-a-number 3 года назад

There is a re-call on a lot of older Kapex machines. They can burst into flames.

@iantarncarpentry4285 3 года назад

Is Daniel Cox the new face for Festool?

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

I can be... 😬. Cheers Ian.

@express375 3 года назад

it would be silly not to send yerman the one he hasnt got.

@johnfithian-franks8276 3 года назад

Hi, I watch a channel “PF” that tests many things and this week it was the turn of drills and drivers, to cut a long story short “Festool” came in 5th out of 7. Not a good result for Festool

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

I’m sure they are very good if fitting kitchens or in a joinery workshop, however for me on site they don’t fit the bill.

@SteveHit1 3 года назад

Dan, I totally agree about Festool gear: it does seem to justify the premium price in so many areas. I bought mine initially with the outstanding dust extraction in mind, and I’ve not been disappointed, using their rail saw, chop saw, routers and, especially, their sanders. The smoothness, ease of use and sheer performance quality makes using them such a pleasure - no longer do I have to fight the tool - it just works with me. Have to say, I also agree with your point on drills; I’ve used cheap Ryobi for years and they do the job. What you’re just missing is a Festool branded tee shirt!

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

I’ll have to get a tee soon.. my first festool tool was a router, and now a few others to add to the collection.

@noskills9577 3 года назад

Love mine but I wish it had the shadow line and not lasers

@dougsaunders8109 3 года назад

Recently changed from DeWalt to Festool so I can place the saw close to the wall as the head slides forwards on the rail, really miss the shadow line of the DeWalt. The Festool takes up nothing like the floor space. There is a lot of great kit out there these days!

@andycrosby2212 3 года назад

Just bought one couldn’t be happier, great bit of kit. Also just received my roofing square from Dan, another high quality item 👌

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

Thanks Andy, hope the square serves you well. 👊🏻

@kurt-reynolds 3 года назад

Could I ask what kind of table is that the saw is setting on? Looks pretty portable. Thanks!!

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

It’s a bora centipede. Excellent on flat surfaces, lightweight and set up in seconds.

@TheToolnut 3 года назад

I've used the Kapex and it's a fine saw, it's a w/s saw in my opinion. My little Makita 36v 7-1/2" mitre saw does the vast majority of my mitre saw work. I'm seriously looking at the new Makita 40v 8-1/2" mitre saw. I'm just about to disappear down the Makita 40v rabbit hole...

@vidviewer100 2 года назад

I just bought the Makita 40v got it home and found it was cutting 1mm out of square over a 200mm cut, took it straight back and found the other ones in the shop had exactly the same error. Did you get one in the end? How is it for accuracy? I'm about to splash out on the Festool as I need accuracy....

@TheToolnut 2 года назад

@@vidviewer100 Surely you can take that error out. Most mitre saws can be dialed in to cut accuractly. I've often purchased mitre saws and tablesaws that weren't dialed in out of the box. Usually there are adjusting set screws to get them bang on. I haven't purchased the 40V yet unfortunately. What type of work do you do? Personally if I purchased a Kapex or any other 10 or 12" mitre saw I'd build a mitre saw station for it and it would get parked on that permanently in the w/s, 🔨 🇮🇪

@Bushcraft-xz6xd 3 года назад

They are very nice but unless it's your everyday trade some restraint has to be used in tool selection. I'm a Sparks by trade but have turned my hand to most things over the years. No way to kit up on the nice tools for every job tho. I did buy a Festool TS50 tracksaw in 2012 that has been used and abused ever since that is still going so well worth the price but this Kapex can't be justified to cut noggins etc... when the tiny Evolution £50 screwfix special does the job lol.

@SkillBuilder 3 года назад

Lets face it the only thing stopping you shelling out dosh on a saw such as this is the one buying all those shoes and pretending she has had them for ages.

@whatyousaidbud 3 года назад

Got one of these in the joinery shop where I work, it's a really nice saw, so precise! and with the plunge stop set it's rock solid, absolutely no springing like you normally get, one thing he didn't mention is the speed controller, not used much but a handy feature.

@adriansams6066 3 года назад

I have the Domino but would never consider the Kapex saws for various reasons including over priced, the Handle egonomically wise is rubbish and the depth of cut is only 88mm (cornice,skirting aside) so it won't even cut 100mm or even ex100mm....... I had a Makita LS1013 for over 20yrs and it was still very accurate and only binned it as the motor looked like it was buring out so I bought the Makita LS1019L which is in my opinion a better saw all round and costs half the price of the Kapex 120. The only good thing about the Festool is the plug lead which is a great idea . As for bisecting angles well its a basic carpentry skill and you only need 2 pieces of timber the same width to bi-sect an angle. As always I Enjoyed the video .... Cheers PS: Yes I have used Kapex saws in the workshop and on site

@wildtwindad 3 года назад

Love my ls1019L, just in the midst of trying to figure out how to do dual lasers as such. Also seeing if the sliding fence from the 1216 series will fit on the 1019's base. Hate having to unscrew the things to do compounds. Thoughts?

@jamesfarrer5087 3 года назад

You say weakness of the Kapex is it won't do 100m but the specs of the 1019 say it won't do 100mm either.. have I missed something?

@adriansams6066 3 года назад

@@jamesfarrer5087 Hi, typo, mine is the LS1219L which will cut 120mm+.

@SingleTrack66 3 года назад

You’re so wrong about the handle. It means you can hold it like you would any other saw, ie jigsaw skillsaw hand saw, with either hand, left or right. This isn’t even up for debate. It’s the best way to have a handle

@adriansams6066 3 года назад

@@SingleTrack66 Quote: "It isn't even up for debate".........Gotta love a Troll.. The reason you are incorrect is both the power tools you mention are hand power tools and anyone with any experience of using them would never compare them with a stationary machine like chop saws. I did a test a couple of times on sites and asked chippies to stand up, hands down by their sides and then raise their arm to 90 degress.. Every single one (20+) did the same thing which is when they raise their arm they turned their hand 90 degress which is the way the Makita saws have their handles. It's the most natural way to move the arm/hand. Then look at Radial Arm saws, 99% of which have always had the handle horizontal and not vertical like the Kapex. Most tradesmen have their saw bed height anywhere between 900-925mm from the ground (in the old days it was called "Cock high") and this means the Kapex style handle is high tothen have to twist the hand to hold the thing. Sorry to disappoint you but everything is up for debate... That said my 35yrs as a carpenter & Joiner only gives me an opinion but it's based on those 35yrs... Have a lovely Bank Holiday.. :-)

@uniqprojects381 3 года назад

Think the big dewalt is the king , the handle placement is weird on festool! I know why they did it it’s for left and right handed but it just feels awkward ! Compared to the dewalt

@geofffitzgerald7523 3 года назад

Nice saw but what is the table it’s sitting on

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

It’s a bora bench.

@michaelplays2449 3 года назад

Great review, thanks

@rocketmunkey1 3 года назад

Im in the market for a mitre saw, although because of recent government induced events, the supply and consequent price of mitre saws is a bit High, and my budget wont extend to the KS 120, its currently a toss up between the Festool KS 60 and Dewalt 727, when prices settle down about the £565 mark the two things which concern me about the KS60 is the cutting depth, not sure at which point that would become a problem. But the other dislike I have which effects the KS120 too is the stand, aside from the expense, (its actually more expensive than the saw) it looks cumbersome and awkward to set up compared to the dewalts stand. I wished Festool would come up with a simpler cheaper design. I have heard the Festool will work on the dewalt stand but mixing and matching would probably set off my OCD ;D

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

I’ve not recently used a de Walt saw so can’t comment, however we have reviewed a KS60 and I use it more than the 120. Great compact saw. Saw stands, that’s another story. 2 portable rollers stands and your cutting fine.

@rocketmunkey1 3 года назад

@@Ultimate-roofing-square.Thanks for the reply Dan, I can obviously do skirting on the flat with the bevel, so depth isn't an issue there. but do you know what the maximum depth of cut is on a 45 degree bevel for the KS60, if I'm doing a hip roof for example with 6x2's ? Ive recently bought a HKC55 and Im really chuffed with the build quality well thought out adjustment controls and versatility, so at the same price as the deeper cutting dewalt I would probably prefer the Festool, roller stands is a good idea I never thought of that, I could probably live with the dewalt stand, would just have to drop one of my dewalt tools nearby to give it some continuity and placate my OCD ;D Lol Great review by the way !

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

@@rocketmunkey1 no worries. The maximum cut when the saw is in the bevel at 45 isn’t great, the arms/ body can get in the way. Before I’ve cut the plumb cut square, then re cut it at 45 for the splay cuts on a roof. I used a friend’s HK and was rather impressed, however it also just cut a 45 mm piece of timber when the saws on 45 degrees. Paint the de Walt stand green... job done. Thanks

@bruceflora8975 Год назад

I felt the same about the stand, I use a dewalt stand, the clamps fit kapex 120

@konstantine381 Год назад

For £1600 not a bloody chance, can buy half a dozen decent dewalt miter saws for that money!

@marlowjoinery9783 3 года назад

I’ve been wanting one of these for a long time but at £1200 it’s to much for site use I’ve had a dewalt 706 for 18 years and it will not die

@davewright9312 3 года назад

And you wouldn't be too concerned about usi g it on site.. Where as a £1200 saw you would.... Its like going on site in a posh car..

@flyingjackcarpentry9394 3 года назад

I really want the 305mm flexi volt. A couple of times I've 'bit the bullet' and tried to buy in toolstation but they never have in stock and can't order in. Is the 12inch worth it for a few random cuts of big posts when I'd mostly need it for arcs and skirts?

@jbmaintenanceservices2699 3 года назад

Do it!

@TestyTV 3 года назад

Milwaukee 305 is a killer, comparking to this small saw.

@Tool-Meister Год назад

My helper crashed down a flight of stairs with my 2012 KAPEX ON ITS ROLLING STAND! NO, repeat NO, damage, and alignment remained perfect. So unexpectedly durable! I surrendered my Hitachi 12” with electronic readout for my Kapex. Saves me about 20 lbs and the purpose-built rolling stand and wings are awesome. Was a good investment for me.

@vinnysurti 3 года назад

My mind does start to “Fester” with the thought of spending money on expensive tools.

@NickFabi Год назад

Great to see someone else who is using the Bora, agree it does work in the right situations perfectly. Yes you get something else that is far more expensive and far more heavy but more is not always better! Love that you have done the same as me and build a different top for the legs

@jackhes2956 3 года назад

Festool jigsaws are rubbish

@paulthomas3841 3 года назад

I have always bought Bosch, Bosch 400 E, I bought in the 1970s, Drill

@saulgoodman2018 3 года назад

For 2k USD, no, it's not worth it. It's over prices by $1,500.

@craigjoint2615 3 года назад

need to make a battery mitre saw

@wilkesy1917 3 года назад

Vents on the front of your plunge saw are ace for blowing the chopsaw down little tip for you there

@rossmcleod7983 3 года назад

My 23 year old Makita has done tons and tons of work and doesn’t look like slowing down. Don’t like the modern, more flexible slides as seen on this Festool....they do make grouse tools but.

@lalski08 3 года назад

Festool, owned by Chinese company TTI who also own...Ryobi (LOL), Milwaukee, AEG, Hoover, Oreck, Vax, Dirt Devil, Hart, Homelite, Empire, Stiletto and Imperial Blades.

@engjds 2 года назад

I think they get a milwaukee design, add more plastic, spray a bit of green on it and sell it as festool.

@saiiiiiii1 3 года назад

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the 60 and 120? I just ordered a 120 but really 99 percent of my work could be done with the 60. But the 120 has so many handy features the 60 doesn't. And is it as precise?

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

Hi, I have both, and are great saws. Use the 60 more purely because of the weight. It’s very precise. My only dislike is the tilt mechanism, no where near as good as the 120.

@saiiiiiii1 3 года назад

@@Ultimate-roofing-square. I'm super satisfied with the KS120, but it's still heavy if you need to haul it around often. Think I'll get the Festool cart to roll it around😅

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

@@saiiiiiii1 sorry for the late reply.. I almost forgot about this video I done. The 120 is ‘the’ saw. Either get a cart to move it about or a strong young apprentice… 👊🏻

@saiiiiiii1 3 года назад

@@Ultimate-roofing-square. the center of gravity and the size of it makes it hard for me, I'm actually pretty strong myself but my arms are short 😂

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

@@saiiiiiii1 🙈. Bit like me too..

@ivegotaporscheandalambo3318 3 года назад

Workshop tools for detail, Don't need this on first fix.

@dave1secondago 3 года назад

nice kit

@paulmusther4219 3 года назад

Got a makita and it does what I ask.

@ben_ts.0620 3 года назад

Theres a ks60 in the thumbnail but its a ks120 review

@SkillBuilder 3 года назад

Yes we reviewed both and used the wrong picture.

@MrTooTechnical 3 года назад

Your pic of the video don’t match the saw you are reviewing. Lol

@SkillBuilder 3 года назад

Dave Well spotted, it was what is known in the trade as a cock-up. Dan looked at two saws and the footage is all in one folder. To be honest our video editor is on strong medication most ot the time.

@MrTooTechnical 3 года назад

@@SkillBuilder kick ass. Great review.

@benjaminhunt283 3 года назад

One of the major flaws I find, is if it is close to one of the indents, if I am going for a quarter of a degree off the indent it does not hold and falls into the indent. That is a major problem for me.

@keithwiddows2391 3 года назад

Take out the 2 screws under the handle and remove the metal plate. Clean it and put back together. Mine was doing the same thing it was just the dust allowing it to slip

@benjaminhunt283 3 года назад

@@keithwiddows2391 thanks Keith. I will do that.

@Stop..carry-on 3 года назад

Too expensive

@sally6457 3 года назад

Festool are relying on tool snobbery, the price isn't even close to their nearest competitor's price. And the finish of any power tool can't match the finish of joiners using a disston saw, and stanley plane 150 years ago. And that saw clearly wobbles once locked in place! Festool have little to no advantage over tools half their price. And at £1200 You are recommended to use a £40 box as a workpiece support, that is within 1mm? This is considered accurate? Buy dewalt/milwalkee/Makita. Take 5 minutes to calibrate on every job (as should be done with any precision tool including fester tool) and with the money you save, take the family on holiday for a week! Lets face it, we'd all love a Bugatti, but the Audi gets more done at a fraction of the cost.

@SkillBuilder 3 года назад

Where do you take your family on holiday? If I could take my family on holiday for that kind of dosh I would be a happy man.

@sally6457 3 года назад

@@SkillBuilder looks like the snobbery isn't limited to tools eh? Holidays don't have to be 5 star all inclusive hotels with a kids club. A tent in Cumbria is still a holiday, A holiday, like a tool is what you make of it. The most expensive tool won't make you the best joiner, like an expensive holiday doesn't mean your a perfect or necessarily happy family.

@Stop..carry-on 3 года назад

A Caravan in Cornwall for a week with the 700 quid saved if you buy dewalt

@kurtisreynolds2646 3 года назад

My college have 5 off them in the work shop

@bradwad 3 года назад

We had diy level kit at mine hahaa

@stevendouglas3860 3 года назад

Over-priced .

@rossbuchanan7632 3 года назад

I have a kapex 120. It is beautiful, accurate, dust extraction is excellent.... I burned out a motor in 1 year cutting framing timber. Replaced under warranty. Just out of warranty it stopped working. sent it back, and bought a hitachi cordless (Colin's recommendation) for framing.They replaced the motor again, at a cost of £180, then it just sat there for most of 2020. First time I took it to do a 2nd fix job, it didn't work so it went back again. They fixed it free of charge, but I had to do a load of 4" architrave with the hitachi(with the festool blade) So, its a great saw, but it doesn't seem to be man enough for site work.

@timmargereson332 3 года назад

Great review and nice to see more of Dan 👍 Lovely saw but not cheap and quite hefty too. The carriage and all the adjustment is amazing, maybe if my 12" corded dewalt bites the dust 🤔 Regards Tin

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

Thanks Tim. 👊🏻

@dougsaunders8109 3 года назад

I have a couple of pieces of Festool kit, amazing build quality and accuracy. I agree with Dan on the drills and impacts. With the price of batteries high enough without the green and black paint job. Don’t mind the clashing colours, red, teal and black, or yellow and black for drills 😁. Edit: missed blue off the list!

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

How could you miss blue off the list.. 😬

@dougsaunders8109 3 года назад

@@Ultimate-roofing-square. I know, faux par I had to rectify quickly

@joinertanner 3 года назад

What's the name of the stand/bench been using please im looking to buy some

@Ultimate-roofing-square. 3 года назад

It’s a bora bench. Really good solid lightweight bench, folds up in seconds.

@JACKATTACKED 3 года назад

👍

@samgreig6947 3 года назад

Lovely saw... when I was in the market for my first chop saw I went to a tools show and had the opportunity to try some out... unfortunately the festool guys told me I’d get a discount if I could make the saw work... clearly I didn’t know about this blade locking system... I walked off and after trying Bosch bought a dewalt🤣.. if only they’d have shown me things could be very different now!

@Tipstricksbantsandpants 2 года назад

So as your soly a roofing carpenter am deal with big timbers would say it’s suited for that? Or not I really would like to buy one but want it for first fix an second fix?