FFXIV Mythbusters #1! Testing and Disproving Common Wrongful Claims about Mechanics in FFXIV 

True!

Very very true!! It is sometimes particularly frustrating when the truth is staring the person right in their face and they still refuse! 😂

I actually thought the provoke thing was true, think it was for a while or at least it felt like that during raiding.

​@@Kuroganemk2I swear back in 2.0 provoke used to put you at the same enmety as the highest player+1

I could swear that my OT was able to take away my agro if I only provoked and he didn't shirk me on a swap, of he hit the boss once lol@@TheRealCHIMShady

@@Kuroganemk2 has happened to me but that's only when I blow inner release after the OT provokes

I very much agree! Especially on the benefits thing. It's really strange that is kept hidden!

I know that this isn't what you asked for, but there is an amazing plugin that does exactly this! it is so amazing and I use it all the time

In addition, they need to actually explain when you can use esuna and interrupts. The white bar and flashing cast bar aren't obvious about what they mean, or that they're connected to ability usage. Unless you happen to read the specific patch notes that they were added in, which is the only time it's actually mentioned in any official documentation IIRC.

@@GayLPer They really should've added those lessons into the Hall of Novices.

​​​​​@@GayLPerright?? they mention things in a patch announcement and assume that knowledge will stick without any real ingame explaination. it's basically up to us to be like "btw, see the bar on that debuff?" for anyone who started after that feature was added. an NPC in healer class quests could give a canon explaination for the bar, like idk it's an 'aether fluctuation' or something, and explain the concept in a system message after the cutscene. Then, give you a test battle with lots of esunable debuffs.

You're right, there are always going to be people so stubborn they just refuse to listen! Not to mention people that will never be satisfied by a reasonable demonstration 😅

Oh what I meant by that is that the only way for that assumption to stay around would be because of that 🤔 but of course there is the possibility that the tooltip was written the same back before this change? 🤔 But it is almost guaranteed that the original source of this misconception is that it used to work like that!

⁠@@CaetsuChaijiChThere are many outdated guides on FFXIV out there, which is natural given the constantly updating nature of FFXIV. IGN (heh) and wikia/fandom’s description of Provoke as well as historical data from GamerEscape (otherwise up to date) says that the Provoke flavor text was: “Gesture threateningly, placing yourself at the top of a target’s enmity list.” current: “Gesture threateningly, placing yourself at the top of a target’s enmity list *while* *gaining* *additional enmity* .” The change happens at 6.2 as per GamerEscape’s Version History tab. For a comparison point, the Lost Incense action from Bozja has the exact same description as old Provoke and does the old effect. (of course it also does have an additional effect of affecting your overall enmity *output* hence serving as an ersatz Tank Stance) Incidentally, the description of the late cross-class action Ultimatum says the following: “Places yourself at the top of nearby enemies’ enmity list.” now we no longer have Ultimatum, but we *do* have…Variant Ultimatum from Variant Dungeon, which flavor text states the following: “Places yourself at the top of nearby enemies’ enmity list *and* *increases* *enmity* *generation* .” (though similar to Lost Incense above, Variant Ultimatum also affects outgoing enmity, making it also an ersatz tank stance). Hope this helps!

Indeed! That is a good explanation! 😊

Indeed! It confused me as well at first when someone claimed it, given how easy it would be to test! 😅

P9S is a great example of that. You WANT to hold onto Reprisal until at least halfway through the cast of Ravening, because he does no damage while he's casting it (not even auto attacks) but will definitely do damage on Soul Surge and the auto attacks on the tank when it goes out.

Number 8 was old code that might had more to do with server latency issues than programming. It was notorious that if you didn't predict the tank buster based on time/hp. The defense button would fail to reduce the tank buster damage.

@@Adonteon21 yeah i can understand that one. some people do play with huge delay so skills not working as intended would make them think differently.

I also made the mistake of assuming fey illumination would work. As you say, it's a very weirdly specific... Exception i guess! 😅 It does suck when someone really tries to peddle their assumption when you already know and tested, that said assumption is false. In those situations, it isn't unlikely for the assuming person to simply claim that it has worked that way every time they used it, even though they never checked! 😅

While I have a crown, I also try to be open to new info at all times, even if the person saying it has a sprout icon - sometimes the sprouts have done more research than even some end-game raiders (though to be fair some of the things they research are things outside of raiding to begin with) That doesn't mean I don't have my head-ass moments, though. Otherwise I take some pride in being as helpful as I can be, since I enjoy how it feels to help people enjoy the game.

The fact that fey illumination & dissipation only work with GCD is still pretty dump imo.

EXACTLY! it's really silly! That was part of why I fell for the determination thing myself at first too! It's not quite consistent is it?! 😂

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I think that is due to where things pop up in the various calculations. Determination and Tenacity are part of the general damage/healing formula while buffs are applied at the end based an action's or ability's tags. This is like a legacy of 1.X or 2.X.

@ultimatecalibur that is a possibility, but as you saw in the video, both are possible for buffs at least, so the problem ultimately is with the tooltips being inconsistent between stats and buffs, right? 😊

@@ultimatecalibur That's a decent guess as to why they work differently, but the problem is that the one that says "spells only" works on all magic, and the one that says "all magic" only works on spells. The tooltips just need to be changed.

​ @CaetsuChaijiCh @@Zanador Then you are getting into possible confusion caused by translation errors in the English language version. Anyone care to check the JP and other language versions?

It can certainly function as a mini dps meter at a lack of something more accurate! 😊

Wish it worked for tanks, though. Had a bit of an eye opening moment when I went into trial roulette with a friend who uses ACT, and he told me my WAR had the highest DPS somehow

That is a very interesting functionality, but I suppose it makes sense. The logical approach would either be that the effect had to be active when the mines detonate, or when they are placed. The detonate option is probably(?) the more intuitive despite how silly that sounds!

I'm glad you learned something new! 😁

This is very possible! An interesting observation is that if this is true, then provoke was never officially changed from the behavior you describe to the one we have now. But I don't know if it worked the way it does now in stormblood, on account of never testing it in stormblood myself 😅 but indeed! It is almost 100% certain that the reason people think this way, is because it was this way at some point!

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I believe Provoke getting +1000 Enmity potency happened at Shadowbringers' release. It was something "minor" that was very easy to miss in the massive amount of changes. I think there were several more later increases that got it to the +2000 Enmity that pre-6.2 had.

@ultimatecalibur i have proof that it was +2000 in shadowbringers as I made a video on that back then. It is on the channel 😊 Edit: sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant the +2000 thing was endwalker specific. According to what I can find they did not buff the enmity multiple times? So I'm not sure where the +1000 enmity thing should come from 😅

Yeahto be real, i was caught by surprise on this one for provoke. I was pretty sure it still worked on the "equalize enmity+1".

Yeah it used to be highest enmity +1 which means if you messed up your tank swap it hurt to try and salvage it lol Shadowbringers changed a lot of mechanics and removed a lot of stuff from the way things would work in say ARR

I'm glad I could help! 😃

This is correct! 😁

It absolutely wouldn't hurt it if it did!

A much needed buff for a stat in desperate need of it. While im not holding on to any hope, I would like for JP Fanfest to reveal some substat/combat updates for Dawntrail, particularly around Ten/Pie. And it makes sense; you build tenacity to make it easier for your healer to fully restore your HP after a tankbuster. That makes sense. Granted, all tanks have self-healing mechanics so it works even applying only from the tank's own heals, which makes me wonder how it works on say, Clemency, Nascent, or casting Corundum/Aurora on allies.

@Nazuiko oh tenacity fortunately increases healing done by the tank, so clemency etc. Will still heal for more if used on others. It is however probably more so because tenacity is determination but different! 😊

tenacity increases hp recovered by the tank, it makes warrior and paladin heal more when they self heal or heal others(it works for gnb and drk too just not as much noticable healing from them) it also increases outgoing damage so it is similar to det and it decreases incoming damage. tenacity needs to be tweaked to have more effect in all three of the things it does to really be a good stat, but it isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be but it is weaker in general. also since it is a tank only stat why not make it desireable for tanks, make it closer to 80% of det, and increase the damage reduction a little also on that note make piety do similar things(increase healing increase damage and increased mp regen)

It does increase healing. Idk about recieved.

Exactly! I got a lot of free kills in season 1 of crystalline conflict maining red mage specifically because people don't understand this little detail 😉😆

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Still get free kills as Sch because that is the only thing I do on sch.

It's not just the dot, every skill snapshots its damage when the cast finishes. But because verflare's animation is so long, and deals its damage at the end of it you frequently experience the feeling of getting hit for 12k+ through guard It's even more frustrating with the machinist LB. The visual indicator that appears above the target's head reads more like a telegraph. Encouraging you to use guard. But if you can see the animation, it's already too late and you should just mash recup to heal out of range.

@@HeroGuy3 yeah but it also works both ways, since there have been so many situations where i have used guard to counter some big attack and then immediately i would break guard and start running away only to see a Machinist crosshair on top of me but it's damage would be minimal even with me running away since the "ghost guard" would still counter the damage :D

Are you sure you want this?! What if the data turns out to say lalafells are cuter?!

I'm glad to hear that, James! Thank you! 😁

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Thank you for being a fantastic teacher Cae, it’s always appreciated.

Yes. Because it increases healing done, not received. If you do 5% more healing, then you also technically receive 5% more healing when healing yourself, on account of doing 5% more healing! 😉

Also tenacity is useless

Tenacity isn't useless, it's just less useful than its competitors. It has the exact same benefits as determination, but at slightly lower magnitude, with the added effect of reducing incoming damage. Since the added benefit isn't helpful in practice, it's just a weaker determination. HOWEVER, that's still enough usefulness that a piece with Tenacity isn't automatically deleted. It will still beat lower ilvl pieces most of the time, and sometimes due to breakpoints it can be the case that one Tenacity meld is the same damage as another Determination meld so you my as well get that 0.2% defense (this happened one tier in ShB). The same cannot be said of Piety, however, as its sole benefit is extra MP recovery, which doesn't help healers at all most of the time, and is thus *actually* worthless to many healers to the point of dropping as much as 20 ilvls in a slot to avoid it.

Oh I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in regards to that effect. Some people don't even know it exists! 😅

@@CaetsuChaijiCh ikr? Some people immediately heal themselves back up or do dmg immediately, removing their invulnerability lol.

When i found this out back around the end of stormblood when I was starting to take for the first time I started melding tenacity and crit materia into all my tanking gear. Its always nice when my tank heals for my basic combo are near 10k per hit without a crit xD

I did not make that up no! 😂 But I can understand your shock! 🤣

@@CaetsuChaijiChFor a hot second I was worried you were gonna say that one was actually true. Would have been extremely upsetting to learn I'd been doing it wrong for years.

Even though some instant attacks take a while for their damage to appear, the attack resolves when you press the button and the animation starts (for instant attacks), meaning you have to be in the correct position for just the very moment you start the action 😊

Thanks! That's what I suspected but after seeing this video just thought I'd ask@@CaetsuChaijiCh

The proc from living dead needs you to be healed for 100% of your hp in healing, overhealing does not count allegedly, which suggests that it is absolutely possible to die from it, if the effect is activated, and you heal fully, but you never took any additional damage. Meaning you can't actually heal that 1 hp missing 😅 Temperance is an aura. However I believe they made it 100 yalms so if it stops working on someone it is just as likely you entirely despawned on their screen 😅

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I'm pretty sure if a WHM uses Benediction on you the second you go to 1 HP it clears the Debuff instantly. Would also be a good way to test it!

@minamoto_hikari it would indeed! I have only heard this particular claim, and have not tested it. I feel like I've seen it happen, but don't know for sure. Hence why I wouldn't outright claim it to be true! But it is testable with a friend! I will add it to my list!

When it was first added LD required you to be healed a total quantity equal to your max HP. This was soon changed to Max HP - 1. However, healing from leveling up doesn't count, so you can die while at full HP if you level with walking dead active. I'm not sure if overhealing counts since the only scenario in which you can test that now is when leveling up AFAIK. However, the common misconception is that you need to reach 100% HP. That has never been the case, to my knowledge. You can heal half your max HP, drop back to 1, then heal half again and see the debuff change despite never reaching max.

Overhealing does generate enmity yes 😊 The change you are thinking of made it so healing over time generates zero enmity. This also includes more vague examples like kardia. The reason for the "before combat" stipulation is because receiving a buff (regen is a buff) generates a marginal, but non zero, amount of enmity when applied 😊

It acts like a pet and reacts to your buffs in real time!😅 I go over this as feature number ten in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O9Sw4Xk0eRg.htmlsi=akCPjbNHl2SoyD55

Absolutely! You can even test this by using regen on yourself. And then using temperance (notice the existing regen gets no boost!), and then reapply regen shortly before temperance ends and notice the boost sticks around! 😁

Yes, this is why many healers will try to cast aoe regens just before the end of thier buff , to milk the increased healing for all they can.

Yes, sage's higher-level dungeon rotation is like entirely based around this. Pop krasis for x1.2, pop physis for a hot plus another x1.1 buff, pop kera for another hot (and bonus mit), pop (pan)haima for x1.32 on its total potency, krasis ends here, and now the tank is unkillable for a while in most pulls. Then everything's usually back by the next pull to rinse and repeat with the other form of haima. And you have kardia going the whole time getting buffed by these as well.

@@FF_Fanatic Wait people actually use anything except dps buttons on a sage in dungeons? /s (this is a joke about how tanks can essentially solo all of the endgame dungeons now especially the bosses)

I'm glad to hear that! 😄

Indeed, very true! Tenacity increases healing done by you to everyone. Unfortunately, as you say, it doesn't scale very well!

Indeed the misunderstanding stems from players thinking the crit chance bonus provided by the crit Stat also works this way (it does not). My tests (not shown in video) suggests that the crit rate added by buffs is applied additively onto your crit damage you already have. So if for example your crit stat leads your crits to do 60% more damage, and a dancer uses devilment on you, then a guaranteed crit will do 80% more damage instead of 60%! 😊

I'm glad to hear that! 😄

I believe the reason is that the damage reduction is applied when the attack "snapshots" and sometimes that is not the same time as when the cast finishes! Which is very weird of course, but it is more reliable to make sure the debuff is active in advance if you need it to connect of course! 😊

Hmm, I am pretty sure salted earth and slipstream snapshots, but honestly I never tested them on this specifically. If they don't, it's because they work like pets. Pets don't snapshot, and follow your buffs real time. For an example of this, astrologians earthly star counts as a pet. I am pretty sure white mages liturgy of the bell also does, but given that we don't keep that much track of healing bonuses on pets in this regard, this might not be particularly relevant!

My understanding is that the ground DoTs that put a buff on you while they are active (such as Slipstream) will snapshot buffs/debuffs that are on you, but not those that are on the enemy.

Haha! That's a good name! 🤣

The paladin filler rotation has 1 spell out of 7 gcds. The paladin burst has between 4 and 5 spells out of 8 gcds depending on whether divine might ends up in the burst or not, which may vary 😊

@@CaetsuChaijiCh yea that's how it is currently however the argument was prior to the most recent changes for PLD. its been a while so i don't remember exactly what the rotation was off the top of my head unfortunately but if i remember correctly I thought holy spirit was cast up to 3 times as part of the PLDs burst rotation. I don't remember if we had this extended confiteor combo however as most of this expac ive been playing WHM lol. Regardless FoF didn't do anything for holy spirit at the time or confiteor if it was a spell but after the changes it does now.

@raventhorX Indeed, before the rework the magic burst was 4 holy spirits into confiteor and three blades. And they did not get affected by fof 😁 I can only imagine that paladins rotation was very weird with what you explained!

Haha, yeah me too! 😅 And the game of telephone sounds a lot more plausible than I'd like 😂

It's very handy! And now you've noticed it's hard to miss!

Indeed, blue mage plays a lot with these kinds of specific cases! 😅

I'm glad to hear that! 😁

That is a weird one! It doesn't do much usually since a single attack breaks it. But I imagine this misconception originates from that very statement. Sleep can be used in a tough spot. Or can be used as a backup interrupt! 😊

This is half true at least though. I'm sure some dungeons/trash it works, but certainly not all of them. During an all dps synced run of Bardam's Mettle, I could not put the enemies to sleep on my BLM. I actually caused a wipe the first time I tried it because I just assumed it would work, and we opened with it, only for nobody to actually be ready. This could be why the thought might come in. It probably works on SOME, but not only in normal group play is it useless to, but in some cases it clearly doesn't.

Part of that is the shift in dungeon design making Sleep non-beneficial in most cases. When dungeon design shifted from "Only mobs that have a key need to be killed" to "kill everything before the gate" Sleep and Repose stopped being a useful tool for speeding dungeon clears.

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Maybe in regular group play but lets consider the trust system. trusts typically only target one enemy at a time. what if you used that sleep spell on a large pull of enemies? boom, mitigation for a bit.

Sleep is absolutely useless in dungeons

The recommended optimized openers all use iron Jaws just before personal buffs (and raid buffs) run out, so the math checks out 😉😁

Reapplying, given how snapshots work, will re-evaluate your status and your targets' as that is a completely new application of the dot. Similar to how overwriting the dots that didn't have any buffs, with ones that do changed the damage, overwriting dots with buffs, with new ones that don't, would similarly reduce the damage. I don't think I really call attention to this in the video, but I do believe I actually reapply the bard dots a few times 😊 Snapshotting simply means that the dots will remember your state when you applied them, and "refreshing" a debuff is the same as reapplying it, and does not come with any special interactions 😅 I hope this clears this up!

I know what snapshotting is, though even though I'm pretty sure I know how all this works, I wanted to see if you'd debunk held beliefs. You didn't go over it so I was wondering if Bards "jaw" move refreshed the DoT's state. As I'm pretty sure it's not a new state, but just a timer increase. But they could have coded it to not do that, but if they did, the ability wouldn't have much point other than saving a gcd. @@CaetsuChaijiCh

Iron Jaws apply a new set of caustic bite and stormbite, it just so happens that a condition for them to be re applied in this way is that the debuffs are already present 😊 this is also why optimal openers recommend using iron Jaws just before your raid buffs end 😁 i didn't outright include this demonstration, but I do believe I included text that said I could have used iron Jaws to demonstrate the same thing and simply didn't to keep the test as simple as possible! Your suggestion that it simply extended the dots does sound like a reasonable thing to think, but it just so happens that they don't work like that! 😊

Ah, okay. Yes that helps this misunderstanding a lot. That's sad. I was hoping they were simply timer extensions, oh well. @@CaetsuChaijiCh

This is a very interesting question. I've started a list of new things to test for a future video, and I will include this one on that list! Although that would mean that the answer might come a while later 😅

Applying sacred soil after receiving a DoT debuff will not reduce damage taken. The debuff that comes from an attack is going to be treated the same way as the initial attack was at the time of application. So if a player is not affected by soil when the attack happened, walking into one after the attack won't mitigate anything as the damage the DoT is going to do was already calculated. The only thing you can really do in that situation is give the player more health for the DoT to eat through via a regen or shield

@@weirderbadge6724 I absolutely agree with this assessment. I do understand the curiosity given by Sacred Soil's tooltip being different from the rest gives rise to the question of whether it is actually consistent, but I can only imagine it is just a weird tooltip, and it works just the same as the rest as you say!

@@weirderbadge6724 Have you tested this? We are familiar with how DoTs are snapshotted at the time of application, in general. My question was posed because of the wording of SS specifically. If you have a log of the test, that would be great.

It's kind of strange! A bonus fun fact to that one, is that the raid wide buff part used to be physical only! Meaning you got the magic, and everyone else physical! 😅

Provoke used to work like that, it was only in Shadowbringers where it was changed to generate extra enmity on top of that.

Crit both increases the chance and power of your critical hits. The misconception is that the critical hit chance is added as extra damage on guaranteed crits. The truth is that it is only buffs, like say a dancers devilment, that is added in this way. Warrior still benefits from the crit damage from gear, and it is absolutely still great for that reason! 😊

I don't even know either. But multiple times I've run into people making this claim. It's very easy to test! And should immediately be noticed when you test the macro when you make it surely? 😅 And indeed, as you say, most of the other claims come from simple misunderstandings! 😊

People who think decimal numbers work in macros are probably so used to playing with plugins where it can be possible to put decimal number wait times.

You are probably right on the money with that explanation! I prefer to use it rather a GCD too soon as well, since if it comes out late, it might as well not have been used at all. There's also, as you say, the mild benefit of it being available again sooner. Most of what reprisal will affect by using it late, will be auto attack or some such, where it is more crucial to have for mechanics for example... Most of the time anyway! 😊

@@CaetsuChaijiCh While I haven't reached the end game extremes and stuff, I honestly think when used to help against raidwides, it can be more than a mild benefit. Raidwides seems to have a similar CD to Divine Veil. So using at the last few moments can result in not being able to use it in time next time the raidwide comes up. Reprisal is same idea. And, in the case of reprisal, if you are using it against raidwides, usually there isn't a ton of ads to use it on in the first place. So there's not much value in it outside of raidwides...

@@tylerbreau4544 You have great instincts given you haven't reached the end game! You'll be miles ahead of others with even "moderate" raiding experience when you do get there. I thought I'd share some more info/perspective for you, if you're interested. When planning out our mitigations in a higher end static: 1. You're right, 10% mitigations are indeed WAY MORE than a mild benefit. They are occasionally required to survive large raidwides, so definitely continue to practice using them, even when that's not the case. You never know when healers are having a hard time healing the party, so an "extra" 10% mitigation might save people, if they are not full HP. At the very least, more mitigation means less healing, which could very easily save your healers from using extra cooldowns or gcds to heal the party, leading to more dps from them, and more tools in their pocket to use for later. 2. We do try to cover multiple damage occurrences with things like reprisal, but a good rule of thumb is that the span of time between the damage instances should really be around 8 seconds for a 10 second mit like Reprisal, 13 seconds for a 15 second mit like Shield Samba, etc. If you try to cover something tighter than that, you will most likely not be able to consistently time it. So if 2 instances of damage are 9-10 seconds apart, you should consider using Shield Samba, Dark Missionary, etc to cover those two, and use Reprisal on something else, for example. 3. Last but not least, you are correct in that there is a delay between the Reprisal debuff appearing on the boss and it actually reducing their damage, especially in regards to the cast bar. Some boss attacks are "calculated" exactly at the cast bar end, and others are calculated slightly before or after the cast bar end. Some mitigations that are buffs instead of debuffs make this problem even worse, since it takes more time for some buffs to apply to all 8 party members than it takes for 1 debuff to apply to the boss. In general, it's best to get used to pressing your mitigations in the middle of the cast bar consistently, so you don't have to worry about the specifics. (Some abilities don't have cast bars, but you'll be able to use other visual cues to get timing down.) Hope you enjoy raiding in end game when you get there! :)

Indeed. ALL guaranteed critical hits have been changed in this way. I could've tested this just as well with bootshine for example 😊 The specific thing is that the stat itself doesn't like, double dip on these by adding the chance on top or something! 😊

Thank you!

Thank you! 😁 I've noticed others mention that exact mechanic in the comments of this video as well! I can only imagine that it calculates damage when the cast bar finishes, even if it takes an eternity for the damage to appear! 😊

@@CaetsuChaijiCh following up on this, you can pop a shield after cast bar finishes and the shield still soaks the damage -- was curious why this was the case and it actually seems like a highly simple answer -- Soul Surge is the big raidwide you get hit by, ravening is the "spell" casted. So while ravening is always followed up with the soul surge raidwide, I think what's actually happening under the hood is that soul surge is an untelegraphed no cast bar move separate from Ravening itself

Hahaha work that massive auto attack black mage king! (or queen!)

Oops, I accidentally replied this on the wrong video... My bad.

No worries I know what you mean 😊 I actually tried to get this on video in the same time frame I got the stuff in the video. But we failed at first. It can be demonstrated exactly as you describe, and I am like... 99% confident that it just requires you to receive healing equal to your hp total. And whether you reach full or not should not make a difference, as long as the right amount is received! 😁 I might test this a bit more, but I am pretty confident this is how it works since living dead was reworked!

I feel like this one is just as real as the claim that having a nice glam makes you do more damage! (which is definitely true as well! 😉)

It is true that because guaranteed crits always crit they would technically benefit from the crit damage from gear better than otherwise. But the misconception is specifically the misunderstanding that it is assumed that the critical hit rate "surely doesn't go to waste on guaranteed crits?" because direct hit was changed in such a way specifically because of that problem. But crit damage coming from the stat naturally made that kind of unnecessary. Also considering crit is already the best Stat 😅 your suggestion is a very possible separate situation. Ultimately, however which one it is, this one shouldn't impact much on how people gear, but simply is a case of understanding how the game works 😁

Monks demolish is a good way to test this: if you use demolish just as the disciplined fist buff from twin snakes is about to end, even if it takes an eternity for demolish to deal it's damage, it counts, because the snapshot happens when the attack starts resolving. What this means is if the attack is instant, then it checks when you press it. If the attack has a cast time, then it checks when the cast time finishes (or approximately up to half a second before due to the mechanic often known as slidecasting). I hope this answers your question! 😁

@@CaetsuChaijiCh This answers it very nicely! Thank you very much! ^^

And then the *game changes* nation attacked! 😂

A big part of these misconceptions continuing to exist also stems from people repeating the misconceptions when new players ask, without bothering to check 😅 In regards to the hunt train thing you mentioned, many open world mobs, as well as adventuring foray mobs (think eureka), are entirely immune to provoke until you engage combat with it. It is possible some of them stay immune after that point as well. I believe this is intended to prevent the behavior where a tank would provoke and bait a mob away so that it resets so that they can "steal the tag" or something to that effect! (not particularly common of an issue in ffxiv. But this has happened in other mmos!)

@@CaetsuChaijiChYa, on one of my alts I have in the Novice Network I see a lot of misinformation being stated as fact, I used to argue but that was usually met with very stubborn resistance, now I just send a tell with the information + an up to date resource.

Provoke still automatically misses Hunt marks like you recall. I commonly see folks trolling by throwing it at an S rank while we wait for folks to arrive lol

Potions are not increased by any effects like this, because percentage healing effects are not affected by healing bonuses. The test was to demonstrate that tenacity does not increase healing received. It was not to test whether it increases healing done (which it does of course). I could of course include the separate test that tenacity increases healing done, but it is common knowledge that tenacity and determination work mostly the same, so the video only focused on the outlying differences that people often assume by mistake: That determination doesn't work on abilities (false). And that tenacity increases healing received (false). I have actually done the specific test with paladin clemency as you suggested in a previous video, where I demonstrated that determination works on abilities. But that was from a slightly different perspective. The fact of the matter is that stats aren't as complicated as they sound, so I focused on the weird outliers, and left the things most people agree on unsaid 😊

Actually after thinking about it, I would like to add that I do realize the insane irony in me assuming something about a stat, in a video, about testing assumptions. You are right that the tests certainly could have covered that as well. However I do still stand by the fact that the claim to be tested was whether tenacity increased healing received. If it increased healing received by yourself to yourself that would be an absurdly weird specification. Hence, as it didn't increase healing received from a secondary player, I believe that was sufficient proof, that it doesn't increase healing RECEIVED however, that doesn't say anything about whether it increases healing done (by yourself), which would ultimately be found to be the case, had i bothered to include such a test in the video. I did however decide to leave that out. Maybe I'll make a second video of this kind and include this test in that one? 😊 Hopefully that will be satisfactory. The thing about percentage healing and potions stands though 😁

@@CaetsuChaijiCh yea I threw the potions idea out there because I wasn't sure how it differed from other healing things. Figured if it was effected that maybe it could increase the cap on hp healed. After all while the potions are percentage based they still also have a hard cap on max hp healed if that percentage would heal over that amount. As for the healing done and recieved thing, the part that makes this possibly interesting is because a paladin who heals themselves with clemency to me sounds like it's both healing done and healing received but idk if the game agrees with that lol.

Indeed, tenacity increases your healing done, in the same way determination does! At least to my knowledge, which makes it weird that they are worded so differently!

I'm glad to hear that! Indeed, regardless of whether you have an opinion on the claims or not, they might still lead to learning something new! :D

It's like a small meme project for a few people on the community discord already! 😉🤣

@@CaetsuChaijiChYou realy gotta make a serious 10 minutes video about that. Just for the memes.

According to other players from way back when, there was a time when provoke set your enmity to the current max on the target, but then only added +1, which isn't very helpful! Back in the day(by that I mean arr onwards), paladins mainly held aoe enmity (and at times even single target enmity) with flash, which generated enmity in a similar way to provoke, just without setting your enmity to the max first, and while of course generating significantly less by today's standards 😊 to my knowledge, gladiators had flash before provoke! But yeah to your question, it is a very common misconception, shockingly so! 😂

Hopefully that is a good thing! ^^'

That would also be an option, however, I decided it was more important to make sure that the test action had the effect built in, because then it should apply to inner release too. It wouldn't surprise me if someone would claim something like inner release is a special case 😊 but it would probably had worked just as well too!

Fell cleave under the effect of inner release is guaranteed crit/dh so it would look like it is scaling higher( i suspect this is what started the rumor) where bootshine is only a guaranteed crit.

That is very possible!

It's only boosted by crit rating granted by buffs 😊 this change was added so that raid buffs like dancers devilment still benefits the samurai! 😁 The effect is universal for all guaranteed crits 😊 I hope this clears things up. It is a bit confusing. The attacks that gain any extra benefit from ratings is guaranteed direct hits, but the tooltip for the direct hit stat also says so! 😁

@@CaetsuChaijiCh shoot, what about scholar's debuff that affects crit chance? The attack gets enhanced, but its not on a player

@@CaetsuChaijiCh to the claim "the effect is universal for all guaranteed crits" seems that the sch "Adlo" and Recitation don't point out a benefit of a crit buffs in their tooltips though. Maybe its more of an attack thing. Mann I wish it was more consistent, but then again its more fun when it isnt as homogonized.

@SC-cx9ti chain stratagem should work just the same once it comes to damage calculation 😊 As you said, indeed, it's entirely a damage thing. Which now that you mention it is quite interesting that guaranteed crit heals don't get the same benefit 🤔😊

When the actions name you in particular, but not in a good way! 😅

I will add this to my notes for a future video. Absolutely agree it should be easy to test!

There is no 7 seconds when it comes to holy spam I tested it on 2 striking dummies and it was 5 than 2 than 1 second all from spamming holy also on the tool kit it's duration is 4 seconds

@darkanimekitty84 i am sure it would be 4 then 2 then 1, which adds together for a combined 7 seconds 😊

Oh ok my bad sorry, and ty

Also while I know exactly how it works you did make a major mistake in your testing of it, you let yourself autoattack by being too close when you casted provoke.

You are right that I swung at the dummy once. That's why I didn't use tank stance to multiply my enmity, and why my friend did a lot of attacks. The enmity generated by the auto attack was minimal. So I don't think that qualifies as a MAJOR mistake 😊

It increases all healing done by yourself. I don't think it increases healing from potions 😅 The healing done part is mostly relevant because all tanks except dark knights have the capacity to heal others! 😊

@@CaetsuChaijiCh sounds like the healers in the team can just be replaced with 2 warriors that max out on tenacity, lol

Well I am glad that it sounds like you trust me a bit at least, thank you! :D But yeah, it is easy for a wild claim to be perpetuated by something that was never originally tested! ^^'

The best way to test that is to try and round the wait commands as described in the video (0.49 and below rounds down, 0.5 and up rounds up), and see if it changes anything 😊 Obviously you can also test with actions as seen in the video. I have heard some players suggest that third party tools can possibly make macros work with decimals, so if you are using those, that also can make a difference 😊

😂😂😂 "oh yeah physical specific damage buffs don't exist?! Go ahead and use whistle to empower that water cannon then!"