With 370,168 Fieros built on just over 5 years, they’ve got to be pretty much all the same, right? Not so fast! This comparison of a first-year 1984 and third-year 1986 Fiero reveals dozens of differences. It’s a rare junkyard treat!
I was working at a GM dealership in 1984 and I remember how excited we were when we got the first one in off the truck. We were amazed at the stereo speakers in the headrest, and everything seemed so futuristic at the time!
@@jonathanmorrisey5771 Ultimate Fiero right there 👍 Some would call that a waste of an SSEi motor but I'd say Fiero is the car that 90° Buicks should have gone into the day those engines debuted! It would have saved Fiero, finally made GM a profit on it, and made Fiero a sales fire when supercharged versions came out (not just catch fire like most shitty irondookies did 😆)
@@MacPoop they had the L27 series I 3800 by the time the fiero production ended, and the series I L67, both put the 60 degree V6 to shame..... but the 3800 got it's real potential with the series II L67. the fiero was long gone and done before that engine debuted. still GM had the hardware to do more with the car.
I owned my 88 Fiero Formula 5 speed for just under a year. 4/22 to 3/23. 42k original miles. Fun but impractical. Sold it and my 91 Camaro to buy a truck. Had a Camaro Trans Am GTA and Fiero Formula all at the same time (profile pic). At 51, nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
That black one isn’t a 1984 looks to be a 1987 as the front and rear bumper is a 87-88 style piece, steering wheel is later and missing the black buttons on the hvac controls. In 1985 they went to a black off button and gray buttons for the different functions. Also missing the glass sail panels those are 85+ plexiglass sail panels.
The deck lid has been changed to a 84 model. Steve was explaining the speakers which are clearly not in the headrests even though that is what he was saying. The speakers were never in the center stack.
Also the side mouldings are rounded. Those started on the 1987 model year. And the bumpers on the '84 had large, rectangle, black pads on the bumpers. All & All, the black car is not an '84. Hope you get well soon Steve.
I remember the marketing campaign, particularly the excitement they got in the car magazines. There was a lot of enthusiasm. If they’d kept at it, maybe at least offered the Quad Four banger in later model years as an option with a stick until they could figure out something else, it would have been a marked in performance. I remember driving an 88-89 Grand Am with the Quad Four/ automatic and thought it was surprisingly quick.
@@sombra6153 I was in 10th grade when the Fiero dawned......my best high school friend then was a GM fanatic, who loved it. I was always a Ford and Mopar fan, but I still respected Pontiac and Olds way more than chevy. I agree with all you guys....it seems like the right engine and this Fiero might have become a real collectible.....right?
There's a rumor that the real reason the Fiero was discontinued was that the last year model was run on a road course by GM drivers against the Corvette and the Fiero won hands down. GM then said that the Fiero has to go, the corvette is our flagship sports car and we can't have anything out performing it. It would be interesting to see if there is any truth to it. GM did stop the try-power carbs on the GTO, mandating only on the corvette after 1966. I'm 6'4" and I actually fit into the Fiero, I had a 87 GT and it was so much fun,I drove it hard and got tired of replacing clutches, if you want to have fun try replacing a Fiero clutch sometime.
A clutch replacement had to be a sheer nightmare on the Fiero. One would think you may have learned to take it easy on that car after replacing the clutch one time. Or learned not to use the clutch pedal as a footrest.
That's true. It was interfering with Corvette sales too much. The upcoming 1990 model would've had an aluminum V8. That definitely would've killed Corvette profits.
@michaelnazaruk4100 The first time took me three days to complete because of the learning curve. The second time, I started in the morning and finished that evening. The third time with help, it took half the morning. The clutches for the Fiero at the time were crap, two of them actually exploded, and they still had plenty of material on the plates that were still there. The pressure plate was still in excellent condition. And I did run it hard back in the Ozarks back roads, that's what I bought it for. This was in the early 90s. I think I was 30 at the time, 60 now, and a lot more mellow.
A powerful Fiero vs a C1 - C7 Corvette would be like a C8 vs a C1 - C7... Porsche had same problem with mid engine Boxster/Cayman if it had some HP, it would destroy the flagship 911 WidowMaker!
@BuzzLOLOL Remember this 1988, the only place that the corvette won was straight line acceleration, and the Feiro was no competition. But running corners and curves, the corvette couldn't keep up. I'm not putting down the vett, I have a 1993 C4 Corvette, and I drive it daily almost 71,000 mi on it, and I remember my 87 Feiro V-6 5 speed not fast(120+) but light and quick, I also had 86 vett it handled OK, but the hp wasn't there. I'm sure the Feiro was more than capable of out running it in the backroads of the Ozarks where I'm from.
Steve, 2M4 stood for 2 seat, MID engine, 4 cylinder. (or 2M6 for the 6 banger). A 6:39 you bring up M for manual for the 2nd time. But at 8:16, you can see through the rear window of the red car that it is in fact an automatic.
Chris is one of my favorite players. It breaks my heart that he got used up by a certain someone who will remain unnamed. That's a First for me. Also praying for Johnny Neel. Rattlebone was a great concept and a great record. Prayers also for Monte🙏
A friend of mine used to work at "The Fiero Store" which sells repro parts for these things. When he first took the job I was skeptical about whether or not there was enough interest in these cars for that business to last more than a few years. Well, that was 20 years ago and "The Fiero Store" is still going strong as far as I know. These are cool little cars with loyal enthusiasts.
There's a black one sitting forgotten in someones yard about a mile from my house. I keep passing by wanting to stop and ask about it but... It doesn't have a for sale sign on it, and some people get butthurt about it. So I've been sort of reluctant to do so.
@@lilmike2710 - Yeah, anymore these days you gotta watch doing that. People might think you're the government out to get them, and you may end up close and personal with a Glock.
@@michaelnazaruk4100 😏 right? Or cursed out... "Do you see a for f***ing sale sign anywhere?!?" 😡 But if I see someone outside already, then I feel more comfortable with asking.
I loved the idea. I loved the style. Someday I hoped to get one. But in 1984 when it came time to buy a new vehicle, I opted for a Chevy S10, with V6, 4x4, and extended cab. It was a decision made with my head rather than my heart. Still love the Fiero original body style. If I could design one from the GM parts bin, it would have the '84 body, the '88 suspension, a N/A 3.4L, and a 5-spd manual. In '87 when we were getting a Quad 4 for our engine lab (U of Minn), we saw a prototype Quad 4 Fiero. The engineers hosting us said it really ripped.
Not correct, 2M4 meant "2-seat, mid-engine, four cylinder". Yup, just like the Impala SS, once GM gets it right, they drop it. Ditto on the Pontiac G8, Epsilon platform and countless others along the way. Back then, GM was quite myopic, and they figured a 1984 Fiero owner might have gotten rid of theirs by 1988 as people often changed cars like socks back then. Someone else noted the black one might not be a 1984, and I think I agree with that. The VIN is slightly different on a 1984 versus 1985 and up, but not by much, with an '84 VIN if we had it for the VIN: 1G2 for US made Pontiac, A for manual seat belts, E for Fiero coupe, 37 for two door coupe, R for 2.5L four cylinder with TBI, aka Iron Duke, then a check digit, E for the 1984 model year, P for Pontiac, MI assembly and the rest is the production sequence. The Pontiac, MI plant closed in 1988 and last assembled the last of the "G" body RWD cars and the Fiero before closing. The '84 is code 41 Black exterior paint. For 1986, the VIN is slightly changed (but mostly the same) with that VIN if we had it for the win: 1G2 for US made Pontiac, PE for Fiero coupe (note the use of the "P" nomenclature), R for 2.5L four cylinder with TBI, aka Iron Duke, then a check digit, then G for 1986 model year, P for Pontiac, MI assembly and the rest is the production sequence. The red one is code 81 Bright Red exterior paint. I was never a fan of them, especially with the use of lower tier model parts, but at least that makes getting parts easy for them and of course with "parts sharing", makes parts replacement very cheap as well.
Yes I used to change vehicles like my socks and like the proverbial cow the grass is always greener on the other side. Sometimes I would get rid of a good vehicle for a piece of junk. 🙃
I think I read in Hot Rod magazine years ago that Pontiac was going to put the Buick 3.8 Litre with a super charger or turbo charger in the car but higher up executives wouldn't let them because it would out perform the Vette. A place called T/A performance have aluminum 3.8 Litre blocks, heads and improved timing case with better oil pump available, would make a great engine to swap!. Always wanted one of those 88 GTs thought those were good looking cars.
The black Fiero is a 1987. The decklid was replaced with a 1984. We can tell by several features & we're surprised you didn't check the VIN Steve because you are so good & thorough! We love your show, keep up the good work sir!
I always consider these to be what the Corvair might have evolved into had it survived Ralph Nader. Say what you will about GM, but you have to admire them for taking a chance on cars like this that likely would not have gone beyond “what if’s” for the car show circuit with most other manufacturers……..👍
@ddellwo Yeah your probably right the Corvair went for 9 years. I think they had a good run though. I Had a 1962 Rampside abought 6 years ago. Great little truck. Never let me down.
Hey, Steve. Actually, the Fiero roof glass was completely removable with quick releases. It would store underneath the front hood in a special area. There was also a little plastic air deflector that would clip in place on the roof.
Not to mention the black car even still has the wind deflector under the hood for use when the sunroof is out. Kind of a rare thing to still find with the car in my experience
I remember my Mitsu Eclipse had a similar sunroof setup - either pop it up, or take it out and store it in a protective sleeve, then clip on the deflector. I guess that was a thing for the '80s and early '90s.
My attentions went away from Fieros to that blue Cutlass sitting up high behind them. I'd like to see a Steve presentation of the final Oldsmobile Cutlass years.
The 3800 would have been the PERFECT engine for this car. Not too big or too much torque for the size of car that it is like a V8 would be but still enough power and torque to make a small, light weight 2 seater a total blast to drive.
@@redmondjp That's cool but really even that's a little overkill for this car. The 200 hp and 220 lb/ft tq of the base Gen II 3800 from 1998-2003 is just the absolute SWEET spot for a car like this. Enough to make it a blast to drive, but not overkill to where you'll just drive it right into a telephone pole by just touching the gas.
@@joe6096 That makes sense - I hot-rodded one of my former cars to the point that it had way more engine than handling and brakes, resulting in on accident and a few near-misses. I was scared to drive it after that (especially in the rain) and got rid of it. To me, the Fiero is the reincarnation of many early-1960s GM vehicles which were far ahead of their time technology-wise (Corvair & Tempest comes to mind), but the car-buying public really didn't take notice, and then after improvements, were cancelled.
A friend of mine had previously owned a 65 S Barracuda, bought new! Years later he discovered that his 5 on 4” Mopar A body wheels bolted on to his new Fiero, so he didn’t need to buy new wheels to mount his old snow tires.
Great video Steve. My buddy had one back in '84 and it was surely a better Looker than it was Performer. I believe '2m4' denoted 'two-seat, MID-ENGINE, four-cylinder'.
I remember in 83 my dad who is retired from G.M brought home the first fiero built it was a white 2m4 it was the first pilot car. the neighbors were looking at it and wondering what the hell it was.
Good morning from Cape Cod 🦈 my girlfriend had an 88 with a 4-cylinder automatic. It ran well and handled exceptionally well, I could whip an off-ramp doing 80 and hold the road. Of course it was a nightmare to work on. I'm praying for your speedy recovery Steve, keep up the great work and the awesome content 👍✌️🇺🇲
Yep, that black one for sure is later than an 84. My friend in high school had an 84, which had headrest speakers, 4 speed, and a different steering wheel. Also his had a volt meter below the tach, and not an oil pressure gauge, which must have been deemed more important than voltage for later model years.
Body exteriors are made of 3 things - SMC (sheet molded compound) for the fenders, door skins, panels behind the doors. Fibreglass for the front and rear hoods, roof panel. Urethane for the F&R bumpers.
@@DrFiero SMC Sheet Molded Compound was used for the hood, roof, rear upper quarter, and rear decklid. RRIM Reinforced Reaction Injection Molded urethane was used for fenders, door panels, and lower rear quarters. The rear lowers were later changed to injection molded nylon. RIM Reaction Injected Molded urethane was used for front and rear fascias. TPO Thermoplastic Olefin was used for rocker panels. Bexley Resin Blow-Molded by DuPont This material (not fiberglass) was used for the spoiler or "wing" on all Fieros as far as we know. The supports are made of TPO. Conventional "Bondo" (polyester resin) should not be used to repair any Fiero body panel. Repair products should specifically state they are compatible with the body panel material. I.e.: "Suitable for SMC repairs." Any competent body shop can handle repairs to the Fiero body panels. Shops which specialize in body repair for Saturns would be particularly capable since the Saturn uses similar body materials. Since new body panels rarely turn up on the market, the best source for them is a donor vehicle. Check the "Parts Sources" page for suppliers. Engine Vents: The deck lid vents on the '84 Fiero were made of magnesium and were spectacular when they caught fire! Subsequent years used aluminum. For those interested, the body panels of the Fiero were made in the following locations: Front Fascia - RRIM supplied by GM Canada Hood - SMC supplied by General Tire and Rubber Headlamp Doors - SMC supplied by GTR Front Fenders - RRIM supplied by Oldsmobile Roof - SMC supplied by Premix Door Panel - RRIM supplied by Oldsmobile Rocker Panels - TPO supplied by G.P. Plastics Panel, front of Rear Wheel - R. RIM supplied by Oldsmobile Rear Quarter - SMC supplied by BUDD Rear Deck Lid - SMC supplied by BUDD Rear Fascia - RRIM supplied by Guide Division Wing - Bexley Resin blow-molded by DuPont
I bought an 85 6 cylinder Fiero new. It wasn't the GT model, but it didn't have the problems the 4 cylinder had. Sold it a few years later. Probably should have kept it!
They weren't far off when they said that the Camaro & Firebird were going to front wheel drive. Back in 88/89, the Beretta was rumored to be the f body replacement. Thank goodness that cooler heads prevailed and the f body lived on in RWD form.
Ford was going to replace the Mustang with the Probe and many folks wrote letters (back when you did that) to Ford corporate in protest and it worked as the Mustang remained rear wheel drive and was sold alongside the Probe. The Probe is gone, but the Mustang obviously made it out.
A friend of mine back in the 80s, Scott B. had ine of the first gen models. The thing is, he (his dad) traded his 1968 Mercury Cougar for it.... Or rather, sold the cougar and went and put a down payment on it. Although I thought the little white Fiero was pretty cool, i would have much rather had the Mercury, had it been me.
Actually, the glass sunroof was COMPLETELY REMOVABLE, and fit securely on 4 prongs under the hood! I bought a brand new 1986 SE which came with the upgraded nose, and big whale tail spoiler. I chose the optional V6 and manual transmission. Mine was fully loaded, and the V6 was ALOT quicker than the awful 4 banger. I still have it, lifelong Southern California car, its still on the road.
Loved my Fiero. Super Sporty and great gas mileage. Almost 200K miles before selling, never a problem. All too many people overdrove or just didn't maintain and those are the ones who had problems.
I worked at Pontiac when these were new. Entire shop filled with them everyday. Engines, transmissions, recalls, fires, parking brake cables, clutches, check engine lights, AC problems, overheating, coolant leaks, not one good part on them. Good thing, because I bought my first house with the money made.
I've owned my 85 GT since new. It's got the 2.8 V6 and 4 speed manual transmission. The 5 speed became available the next year I believe. From what I remember reading at the time it was insurance cost that drove sales down and resulted in the model being dropped. That being said I'm sure the next model year would have yielded some better performance in the engine bay. The Olds Quad 4 was the hot ticket at the time and I've seen a prototype from the factory that was so equipped. A review of the 88' in car and driver said that it had a new transmission made by Gertag in Germany that was rated for twice the horsepower that the V6 was making. Pontiac surely had something planned. The front suspension was all Chevy Chevette stuff and the rear engine cradle and suspension was pulled from the Chevy Citation. The 88' car had a completely redesigned front suspension. Pontiac spent a pretty penny to change a factory over to the 'mill and drill' body mounting so they told the engineers to use every possible piece from the parts bins. I've got 47k miles on my 85 and I rarely see another when I'm out driving, unless I cruise by the salvage yard!
Mine's white also with the grey interior and the wheels look like small versions of the TransAm wheel. The bolt pattern is different, I checked!@@BuzzLOLOL
Ha, so funny I wasn't the only one Frankensteining model cars, back as far as 1st grade show and tell I would show up to class with my presentation and loved the other kids response. Must say your rendition of the Fierhoe would have been the top of the class Steve, 400ci, holy guacamole 🔥💯
Great video! The mention of the Ford EXP reminds me of when I borrowed a friends EXP to take my bride on our honeymoon to Canada…as I thought it would be more dependable than my 76 Caprice ( which ironically had ice cold A/C)! This EXP was so under-engineered that it overheated for most of the journey requiring us to run the heater in August all the way back from Quebec. The 80’s were generally the “era of shoddy” when it came to the automobile ( with a few exceptions).
I owned Two '88 Fieros -- totally different than the other years. No Chevette front Suspension. LOL Lower & Upper control arms. that were parts all to themselves Firebird parts were different. Production #'s in '88 came to every 100 Fieros you saw ONLY 2.6 of them were 88s. Basically of the 306K of them made Only less than 10K were 88s. If half were Fastback GTs & half were 4cyl Coupes they Qualify for Haggerty "Rare Car" production list. Fieros had a bigger oil pan & Vents after the rear window in mid production years added to stop the Fire hazard. You could put Grand Am Various styles of 16" wheels on them for a Nicer look but had to watch your speed though. Better Gas Mileage for Sure also. No Power Steering (they didn't need it) Fiberglass & Four Wheel Disc Brakes, rear wheel Independent Suspension. Front wheel Drive System moved to the rear = Great Traction --Mini Vette Fireos were discontinued b/c before 88 production year they were testing & adding Turbos & Superchargers. They took them to the proving grounds & Blew away the New C-5's. GM & Vette owners weren't going to put Up with That. lol They were made @ Lansing's Grand River Craft plant. Where I lived for 40+ yrs. Reattas soon followed. 88s ARE Extremely rare & Are a Miniature Corvette!! I know --I owned Both.
I worked at a little three piece wheel company called HRE when the body kit craze for these was in its heyday. If it hadn't been for all those kits, HRE wouldn't be around anymore, let alone the "High End" manufacturer they are today.
Steve - that Fierro model with the 400 is awesome! You ought to finish it. Hopefully some old Pontiac enthusiast’s heart (and back tires) will be warmed today after watching your video. I don’t remember exactly the chronology, but Dodge had a mid engine four banger concept car around that time (Charlie Sheen, “The Wraith.”). Don’t know if the Fierro had them exploring to see if there was a market in America. Toyota brought the MR2 to dealerships across the US right after the Fierro debuted, IIRC.
I had a good friend who had one of these, I think it was an 84 model. It was bronze with a tan cloth interior. It was a nice car and definitely different from other cars of the day. I do applaud Pontiac and GM for producing this vehicle even though it could have been better. This was a bold move in the 1980s where everyone was looking for small cars with good gas mileage. Performance was not the first thing on the list.
I still have my 86 SE V6, 4 speed manual I bought new. The V6 Was a great engine for the car, a 1000 times better than the god awful iron Duke 4 banger. It was quite quick and punchy with the V6. 270.000 miles on it now, still on the road.
the 5 speed started in 87 4 speed till then they also offered a limited amount with T-TOPS and also the sun roof is removeable the m is for Mid engine ...still a great channel man it a daily for me
I vaguely remember one of the professors at my university drove one, I believe gold or brown, not sure. Anyway he looked so funny driving it for being a tall guy driving such a small car! Professor Barge was his name.
Hi Steve, I had a 1984 from new. It was a 4 speed with the removable sunroof. Great car. Drove it cross country, got great gas mileage. Wish I waited until 1988 to get the GT.
This is correct. Another key 88 point are the rear section "raised PONTIAC letters", which only came on that notchback style for 88. That rear decklid however, is from an earlier year 2M4. Good catch and eye!
Formula was ONLY in 88. 87 and 88 had redesigned front and rear bumper covers for the base and SE coupes. The 88 Formula was a V6 only in the coupe style body.
My brother has such stories about working the repair hole at fisher body. My niece got one for her 16th birthday. She hated it so she decided to tear up the transmission. My brother said well not a problem that weekend he repkaced it she was so disappointed.
Remember the time I took it to Walmart for a oil change. They didn't know it was mid engine. So they looked under the front hood. L.O.L. I went out in the shop and showed them where it was.
I bought a brand new base model Fiero in 1987. It was gold, had the 2.5L Iron Duke engine and 5 speed manual. It came with plastic wheel covers, but I bought the Pontiac alloy wheels for it, and also had the factory luggage rack installed on the rear lid. I absolutely loved that car. It was my first new car. I sold it 4 years later to buy a 1976 Corvette. The Fiero came in many body styles, and with 2 different engines. The first model year in 1984 was only available with the 2.5L engine, and had a pointy front end with 2 black plastic "pads". In 1985 and 1986 that style was still available, but there was a model with a longer rounded front end, which had the 2.8L V6 engine, called the GT. In 1987 and 1988 the front end on the base models changed, and was more rounded. The model with the extended front end and V6 became the SE, and the GT got a completely new body style with the extended front end, a "tunnelback" rear much like a Ferrari 308, and the V6 engine. In 1988 the body styles stayed the same, but all the models got a new upgraded suspension, and the manual transmission models got a new German made Getrag transmission. There was also a Formula model available in 1988, with the base body style, a V6 engine, and T tops. The Fiero was a wonderful car, but Roger B.S. killed it. GM had let it get out of control. It was supposed to be a sporty commuter car with a reasonable price (I think I only paid $9,000 for my new '87) but by then the new tunnelback GT cost more than twice that much. Because it looked like a sports car, all the magazines complained about its lack of engine performance and handling, and it started getting priced into Corvette territory, and GM did not want competition for the Corvette. Had they left the original Fiero alone, and continued to sell it as a sporty, fun, but inexpensive commuter car, it would have been fine. With the exception of the 1968-1977 Corvette coupe, the Fiero remains my favorite GM car.
GM needed to compete with the Toyota M3 and failed in a spectacular manner. I remember having my truck worked on and reading a notice from GM that the six-cylinder model required you to drop the motor to change the spark plugs. Stunning. The Fiero was a piece of junk. I'm surprised that it wasn't manufactured by GM's GEO division, considering what a junker it was. Reminds me of the 190 series Mercedes or the GEO Metro. Stunning junk.