What are your thoughts on the state of monetization in the fighting games? Do you think the companies are pushing it too far? Or do you reckon there’s nothing to worry about yet? Let us know!
really think it's fair and all, cosmetics aren't necessary, you can just not buy them, but anyone who thinks it's worth their money can just spend, character on other hand took more time and effort to make in a fighting game, I think it's fair to charge em some money
I'm ok with it as they are so far. Example, T8 is coming with a base roster of 32 characters. That's pretty good. In t7 you could buy dlc characters individually so I expect the same. If it is like this, no problem at all. They are giving you a super badass game with a lot of content. The extra content is up to you as an adult to decide whether it is worth it or not.
I play off rhythm. Won't pick up a fighting game until it's dead so I can sink my teeth in and enjoy the additional content at a discount. The real cost I've learned to give up is playing people and being social with it. But, truth be told, I still manage to do okay and can give people a run for their money even though they've been playing for so many hours more than me. And besides, people play 4 - 6 characters tops in any given fighting game. I wanted to bring up some honourable mentions when it comes to DLC. DoA number of costumes / changing their hair colour for what, a $1? And easy fatalities in MKXL. Looking forward to picking up SF6 in 2026 maybe when it gets refined and the meta has seasoned.
Sadly, this is seem by people as normal. I love the fact that fighting games are allowed to evolve due to patches, updates and new characters... however, the monetization around them is already out of hand. If you're an aficcionado, the worst thing you can do is support the game day one. By the end of the lifecycle of the game you'll have spent enough to buy multiple full priced games. Worst thing yet, if you choose to wait, by the time you get into the game, it's already dead or dying.
Dont forget if your a day one supporter you also have to see everything you paid full price at a fraction of the cost because of a sale. I got tekken 7 for $14.99 in its second year. Had to buy it twice. Got hacked.... but at least it was on sale.
So true. This is why i wanna wait for street fighter 6 to be fully complete instead of buying all these dlc packs ome by one. Street fighter 5 champion edition has all the dlc characters and stages in a $9.99 purchase and its worth it while its still on sale. Thing is waiting for a "street fighter 6 champion edition" is gonna take YEARS especailly when they're dropping one season per year. But i still wanna wait to by the complete game with a one time purchase.
@@peakfiction4819It's only worth it if you really don't play it regularly. Other than that, why gatekeep yourself just because it's expensive? You're eventually gonna play it almost every day anyway.
@@Adeyum64Sometimes people don’t want to spend a huge amount of money for a game. Smart move would be to wait for a sale because most of the time the game would have much more content via free updates or DLC being cheaper. MK1 was released in September but was on sale over 50% in just less than 2 months. Heck, the premium edition of the game is over 60% off on CDkeys right now. Doesn’t hurt to wait 🤷♂️
@@TQT1995 The thing is, all those people Talk about the complete edition, which takes like 3-4 years to be there. So I'm there asking myself, why do you want to suffer and wait that long? I understand if it's just some months like you said, but holding yourself back for years just to play a favourite game of yours is just ridiculous. I'd rather pay 50€ for a game which I always play, rather than 50€ for multiple games I'll never really play.
Of the big 3 Tekken is the one that doesn't ask for as much as the others when it comes to add-ons and content, yet it's the only one in the thumbnail 🤣
The worst thing is that I can't stand the price of these new cosmetics and yet I have bought one or two. I am going to try really hard not to do so in the future. Yes extra characters are fine and I accept paying for those and I even don't mind paying for cosmetics but the price of them is absolutely ridiculous.
Fighting games have ripped people off since their inception, lol. People either have collective memory loss or too young to remember. M. Bison and Akuma in SSF2T were literally designed to sucker out as many quarters out of you as possible, lmao. And let's not even forget one of the biggest reasons as to why SF2 still remains the best-selling SF series in the franchise overall. The amount of rereleases and editions bloated its sale by a huge margin, where each new editions are essentially balance updates sold as "new" versions of the game. Meaning that for players to keep up with the game's meta, they'd have to buy SF2 about 5-6 times (7-8 times if you count the HD Remix and Final Challengers editions too), give or take. And that's not counting ports like the GBA port of SF2, lol.
This is one of the realest comments I've seen in a while, arcade games were never intended to be balanced and were designed to take your money. At least now we get an actual good game for our money most of the time. Vote with your wallet, if you don't like it, don't buy it, you can't do more than that.
Arcade machines were designed to take your quarters yes, but you didn't pay $60 plus just to play. Also Akuma in SSF2T was a secret boss so I'm not sure he counts.
Season passes have basically replaced thw original model Capcom ran with for Street Fighter for years. Tekken is on 8 and SF is just now getting to 6 even though its almost a decade older franchise. The monetization is annoying and i think the changes they make to these games business wise makes the game influenced by profit more than consumer feedback.
I don't think it's fair to give Tekken too much of a hard time here. Sure the frame data DLC was a mistake and should have been a core feature. Even not being able to at least practice against DLC you don't own is also not a good thing. But compared to the shenanigans that the likes of MK and SF have been doing the last couple months, it's very much undeserved to give Tekken a hard time, even highlighting Jin in the thumbnail seems quite unfair to me. As for your speculations about pay walls in Tekken 8, that will most definitely not happen. They already made it very clear that what you see if exactly what you get, and all current customization options will be open and free to all. I also don't see a battle pass happening for Tekken 8, Harada really is not a fan of this and has expressed this in the past. Whether they will add more DLCs in the future for clothing or not is another case, but as long as it's not 10 dollars for an outfit per character likes Street Fighter does, or a Rage art for 10 dollars like in Mortal Kombat, it is all good in my opinion.
At the beginning of the video, when you said fighting games weren't greedy yet you are completely wrong. Arcade machines and the cpu is known for cheating the player to take more quarters from them, this is specially true for mk2, sf2 and all of old snk games
Exactly and now i refuse to buy a season pass for anything. I’ll rent the game play it for a few days then buy the ultimate edition later down the line for $19.99 lol
A lot of people excuse the new price for games by saying 'Video games are harder to make now' & I'm like, 1st of all, they were hard to make before & 2nd of all, I don't care. I pay for the value of what I'm getting & I don't see 40€ worth of value in a season pass when the game cost me 70€ to begin with.
as a game developer for over 20 years, i can assure you that games are much more expensive to make now, and sales figures and inflation does not match the growth in expense and upfront risk that game developers take on, and break even sales figures are not guaranteed. DLC allows game teams to scale with the game's varying success or failure without betting the bank and a ton of people losing their jobs if the game underperforms (which can happen for a myriad of reasons beyond control). Players have varying internal metrics about what a game "should" cost, and the fact is that all games are different, and players even value the same games differently. Be glad that a variety of pricing models are being explored that are NOT pay-to-win, and align some sense of consensus of value.
Ahh yes, the sad state of paid DLC... But ultimately we have ourselves to blame. Sadly, this is a monster of our own making and the companies are just squeezing us for every extra drop of money they can and seeing how much they can get away with. And that is a lot apparently!
Thank you for making this video. It needs to be said, this has become super predatory. I wish you woulda mentioned Sony applying pressure to the studios as well...
I mean, Tekken is the least exploiting so far. It only got kinda pay to win-y when Leroy and Fakumram were overpowered characters that using them would be a sure win most of the time, but it got fixed when they were nerfed in future updates. So it’s kinda unfair that tekken was the only game in the thumbnail when other games are much worse.
Samurai Shodown season pass 1 being free for a short time as a thank you to the fans was a cool approach to DLC, but honestly, I think Melty Blood does DLC the best as new characters, stages & story updates have been free for Type-Lumina.
Time for an American Dad reference: Fans: "Stop trying to control everything." Fighting Game Executives: "I'm not doing that!" Fans: "Bro, you're literally holding a gun to the Fan's heads right now, I can't even think of a better metaphor than that." This whole microtransction mess with Fighting Games is pure greed. They're selling FULL PRICED GAMES and then gaslighting us like we're the villains when we address their over-abundant nickel and diming. I mean jesus, Capcom is now waging a war on mods, the things that helped their RE games blow up after their comeback, all because they are afraid of mod creators making BETTER SKINS FOR STREET FIGHTER 6... FOR FREE.
Well it's because people buy stuff without thinking, if you make changes slowly. And DLC thing is normalized for current generation of players. So they think it is standard. In that aspect, if they do release full game on release with all contents, people will now complain about lack of updates for content.
Forget cosmetics, what I find truly appalling is the trend towards pay to win improvements. I dont mind if you want your character to look like Neo or Ms Marvel but selling frame data and characters/mods that are over powered is just ridiculous. DLCs should be whimsical and quirky not an easy way to rank up. It is bad enough that there are players who just run the cheapest moves/combos over and over like robots and quit out of any game they cannot win with little or no penalties.
The worst one for me seems to be the most sneaky: Charging for extra characters. It seems innocuous because, you know, more content, but this completely changes the meta. Also, while it does happen, the new characters absolutely cannot be low tier, because obviously, you paid extra for them! So, what does it mean when you pay for non-standard content which gives you a competitive edge? PAY. TO. WIN. Get it out of my fighting games, mate.
sad to see fighting games catching up to modern monetization, especially as a tekken player, i hope they just stick with DLC and dont introduce battlepasses or in game credit, i dont like feeling like my game is a chore.
Laws should be passed in the major countries outlawing micro transactions in games. DLC that contains a new story, new maps etc that add content may be permissible, however skins, cosmetics and battle passes should be made illegal. Skins and cosmetics should be earned by playing the game and not by how much money you spend. China appears to be bringing in legislation on micro transactions and other countries should follow suit.
I think using Tekken's way of presenting DLC as some form of corrupt marketing is a reach. If they are adding an additional mode, even if it's just a "fun" mode post launch, why would it be free? Doesn't someone have to develop it? Also presenting costumes in any fighting game as dlc and charging for them is not the most egregious act, especially if the series is not known for having free extra costumes or customizations. Once again someone has to develop and recoup the cost of development in order to do things like make patches, keep the servers up to date, so on and so forth. I've played games long enough to know that most ppl complaining about non essential dlc probably wouldn't even play these games for as long as they do if they either A) it came with all this content out the box for a higher price or B) just didn't offer DLC at all. Yes, some practices are egregious (loot boxes, battle passes in paid games, pay 2 win enhancements, etc) but everything can't be free nor is EVERY practice named on this video a bad business practice. IMO
Yes, they are pushing it too far. The best example is Tekken 7, where I didn’t like all of the DLC characters, so I wasn’t interested in purchasing the pass. More so, cherry picking which characters I found interesting. Only to find out later you can’t even set these characters as offline practicing partners, meaning you will only learn that fighter if you get lucky to face them online or in the random rotation of offline opponents. That left a bad taste in my mouth and as much as I know there will be characters that are “fan-favorites” as DLC for tekken 8, they are using that as their strategy. Purposely stripping down the content so that you spend more money later. Gross!
Having to buy Fahkumram just so you can lab him is a very different thing than if you spent 4.99 to buy him, then had to spend another eight bucks to buy all his customization options, then had to spend *another* three bucks to buy his Rage Art.
They announced Eddy for tekken 8 first dlc character. Game isn't even out yet and there are people legitimately excited for it. Why? It's just Eddie. The character you can slap the controller and do stuff to make it look like you actually know what you're doing.
You guys failed to mention the two caveats to the Tekken 7 paid frame data, which doesn't make it okay by any means but is important factors because it wasn't as predatory as it initially comes off as. First off it was literally only detailed frame data display paid walled off not the general frame data display or the punishment practice mode also included in the same update patch. And the second part was Harada outright stated they never wanted to add frame data to T7, this was added upon popular demand not planned for like the character DLCs. This wasn't a scenario of them going "Oh let's omit an expected modern feature and then add it later to make bank." The latter part was due to how antiquated Tekken was to arcade culture. Part of the fun (and I agree with the sentiment but not this specific decision) of Tekken was the discovery and learning you do on your own. Back to the former mentioned, the fact that *only* detailed frame data wasn't included only effected competitive/pro players. Except that's not even really true due to the fact that Bandai Namco didn't send out a single cease and desist letter to the frame data websites to help sell their detailed frame data DLCs as far as I know, so there wasn't really any cases of players gaining an actual "pay-to-win" advantage in T7 from detailed frame data dlc. Oh and I remember that detailed frame data was also included into the season pass dlc, so again competitive and pro players aren't truly effected by this "pay-to-win" since any competitive or pro player would've already gotten the season pass dlc in advance. T8 is even including frame data in the base game at launch with new and improved ways to learn like the ghost ai and replays that actually perfectly recreate 10 second scenarios of those replays to lab now so we're looking good with Tekken all except for those tacky gold suits the marketing is saying 30-32 new costumes when it's just the same costume for every character pretty much. Last thing I want to bring up which I think is scummy all fighting games pretty much do is I think all DLC fighters should all be selectable in practice mode, basically it'd be a free demo mode for those characters and it'd remove the pay to win bs the players of those DLC characters have.
I'm fine with paying for additional characters or maybe costume packs (as long as it not being DoA level) but I'm not gonna put any dollar into a rotating shop
After street fighter x tekken i just assume that certain fighting games, like blazblue cross tag, just sell you character that were already ready to be put into the main roster but just cut them out to squeeze more out of you.
Beacuse of this shenanigans, I am now curious how project L ( league of legends fighting game ) will handle microtransafctions while being a free to play game.
I think one of the top (if not the top) contenders for the most bs DLCs in FGs gotta be selling frame data in T7. FG devs already blueball players by not allowing labbing chars you don't own (which is a scummy move in itself), but locking something as essential as frame data behind a paywall, especially in a knowledge check heavy game like tekken? Really? Also, IMO SF5 doesn't get even nearly enough credit for letting you buy characters for free. Especially before they removed 1st clear FM rewards from survival.
I stop playing fighting games do to this issue. Most of these games come out with 5 playable characters. By the time 2 years comes around they have 50 plus characters lol. I remember when characters were earned by playing and doing difficult task, to unlock. I don't support theses games anymore
Tekken Tag 2 technically had dlc with the online pass that let u actually play the game online. I dont think you could get the extra characters without it.
Should have used the picture of Jin in the gold suit for the pre order bon us as the thumbnail or the a screenshot of him sitting on the throne in his TK5 ending XD
I think SF6 and MK1 sure but tekken 8 is actually fantastic from what i played of the demo, and immediately got the ultimate edition right after. Was planning on it already but my god tekken 8 is genuinely going to be best the fighting game ever made i can feel it!
@@firasayyas71 but i have played the demo which is the best demo i have ever played. I can go back on that demo and play as all 4 playable characters in it and get them to the demo max rank.. not that it matters but im doing it because i love everything about this fighting game, the sounds, the music, the stages, characters + style… the story chapter 1 was amazing! The ghost battles PLUS i can vs my friend if they are over and thats just in the demo! Full game is gonna be show stopping
We've reached the point of fighting games being monetized for Asian reasons. DOA is the biggest offender when it comes to season pass prices. You pay more for the season pass than the game itself plus the infamous hair colour that you have to pay with real money just to buy one hair colour per character instead of every colour for the entire cast. As bad Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter and Tekken are when it comes to season pass prices and dlc content, they can never top DOA 6 with its horrible pricing. The reason why DOA 7 will never happen.
I don’t think it’s a rant this is truth you should’ve added back then you had to play to unlock characters now you buy them there’s no reward better then earning a character everyone has to work for
You could also argue that paid character dlc is pay to win as stuff like Goku GT and Ultra Instinct Goku in Dragon Ball Fighterz were so good on their releases.
You really can't over state the fact that games are way bigger than they were 30 years, yet still retail for very similar prices that they did 30 years ago. Trying to get you to pay more money for a game you already bought is kind of a necessary evil. That being said, some games are taking the dlc thing too far, and just looking for silly ways to get money out of you. SF6's collab with TMNT was a rip-off since you were paying the price of a whole character for a skin you couldn't even use online. Tekken hasn't really done anything that silly aside from the frame data fiasco, but I'm worried they'll do something like make Tekken 3 or Tekken 4 customizations in the future that are six bucks or something.
Which is why I only bought the SFV Champion Edition and Tekken 7 Ultimate Edition, I mostly play offline with friends and with my Tekken community in my town/city. So I got everything i wanted in the DLCs after that without paying for it in SV5 (not in tekken 7 though I bought only the dlc characters I wanted like Lidia. And before that I was sharing both game on steam with my friend who bought it when they released. Going to do the same thing Tekken 8, I am going to share it with a friend and the will buy the 2 seasons ultimate edition after 2 years lol.
I'm still pissed off about ArcSys rising regional prices for ggst. The cost is way, way too high, and there's never a discount for any single dlc character. And don't get me started about dlc palletes, it's such a scam I can't stand The problem is, the game is really good and I love to play it (although tower rank system sucks balls), I wanted to buy a few copies to my friends, but with 100$ for "full" edition and I bet many other wanted it as well, but this is too steep and I don't know whether this game would be dead in couple of years or not.
If gamers werent stupid all games would be complete day 1 or dlcs would be free. I never buy dlc. Also is not even fair having dlc characters unless they are available for free in training mode at least. Dum gamers buy dlc characters and dont even play well with the few characters they use
Surprised it wasn’t mentioned, but the most scumbag move by Bandai-Namco for T7 was the fact you couldn’t lab DLC chars without buying them. Even if the DLC chars weren’t stronger, this gave DLC an innate advantage over normal chars in terms of matchup knowledge. I hope this is gone in T8 with the improved replay system.
I think this shouldn't be a problem with the new ghost AI system, if you only want to learn the matchup. As for trying them out yourself: for new characters it's gonna be a problem yeah. But if they're veteran characters... let's be real, they have been there for years xD it would only be an excuse to say, that you have no idea how to play as them.
My line was at DLC skins, I was ok with that. But when they starting locking entire characters behind DLC and season passes, that's when I walked away from the genre for good. Unlocking characters through play was part of the fun, now we're expecting to only pay for them on top of the game's base price? Nope.
@@VendettaAS I want fighting games to be completed games, not Live Service games where you have to make multiple purchases on top of a fully-priced base game to continue playing with all of its interactive content, which are the characters. They CAN make these games complete with 100% all the characters included. Literally how it has always been. Unlocking secret characters through play was a main appeal. They choose not to so they can release only half the roster and charge you more money per character released later in the seasons. You're buying an incomplete game and paying extra for the missing parts later. This isn't like MMO and looter shooter games where massive game-changing content and maps are added later (which understandably take a lot of time), these are fighting games; their seasonal wait time is artificial.
@@mystman7722 so you just want free stuff perpetually OR games to just never release. Got it. Tekken 8 will have a huge base roster of 32 characters. After that, you have to pay extra....but you just want seasons and seasons of extra stuff for nothing because you gave the bare minimum of $70.
The whole micro transaction thing should only be for free games that’s why it’s ok with Fortnite and league, you’re already playing a free game so ofc those skins are going to cost money. But let’s say with mk1 ur buying a 70 dollar game with an item shop that has skins you cannot unlock without paying for, some worth 20 dollars
Tecate was a cracked demo, isn’t that gamers ripping off companies? To be fair both can be at fault. Developers need to ensure that these games don’t get so expensive. The casual fans can’t jump in and enjoy, if people wanna pay for cosmetics, I’ll never have a problem with that, it’s just stupid when they overprice those.
Fighting games have always been the same. The problem isn't the companies or the part of making money. It's the people who play them. Thinking back to street fighter 2 or mortal Kombat (original). Everyone had to play it in the arcade.. who knows how much those machines made. Upon release to console everyone thought great we can own a copy of the game and never have to spend hundreds of dollars on quarters from moms purse or dads pocket at the local pizza shop. Believe that those 5 dollars in quarters your grandpa gave you to play for 10 minutes added up on those games that took 4 or 5 guys to program, manufacture and advertise. Now jump to today.. no arcades everything is online and to make a video game like those require teams of over 200 programmers, advertise, and of course manufacturing to less targets. Sony,PC,Xbox and switch. Again less income targets means the money has to come from funneled as best it can from those minor targets in the way of microtranstions and so on.. It's really no wonder some of those companies are going bankrupt and everyone is trying to figure how get back to the good old days of less cost to make more to gain.
In my opinion buying characters is fine and you might be able to convince me on buying skins for those characters. But that's really all fighting games aren't really good for battle passes since people really only play one character
@@azizkash286so which is better, buying a character like in DNF Duel, Tekken 7 and Granblue Versus Rising, buying limited time cosmetic items in Street Fighter 6 or buying fatalities in MK1?
13:36 nope harada hated the idea of frame data he even said Tekken isn't supposed to be a math game but fans kept demanding it..that's why he has his famous catchphrase Harada - don aske mi fo shiiit Edit: plus Tekken is a 3D game i mean THEE only 3D game you don't see another 3D game available next to it
I’m never buying an “ultra version” of a game ever again. If that means I miss out on games like Rising and Undernight that’s fine. There are too many good games that don’t price gauge me.
The best thing we can do about this life service shit and is to BECOME Game Devs, Investors, Businessmen, and more. We have to get into this business and challenge or destroy the current trends and inspire a new one. Inflation is a harsh obstacle at the moment yes, but my point still stands. We got to reshape the gaming industry and the business model behind it
Haven’t seen the video yet but i already have an opinion on the matter (and will post it early so it’s seen). “Seasons”, paid dlc, micro transactions and special editions are all scams. The seasonal monetisation model sells the game in never-ending doses until the next sequel comes out - rinse and repeat. There are no “new characters coming out”. It’s all planned out since before the production of the game. Playes used to play to unlock characters and stages, now they pay to unlock them. Check out the paywall story in street fighter x tekken to see how these companies respect their fanbase’s wallet. Also this constant balancing with the nerfing and the buffing is just an artificial way to expand the lifespan of the game - and “renewing” the interest along with each “new season” that drops. The plan is to extend the game’s life to 5-7 years (while the loyal customer keeps paying up), drop the sequel - rinse and repeat. And now i’m going to watch the video…
I think videogames and consoles are too expensive in general. Instead of buying PS5, additional controller and a game you can buy up to 60 boardgames. To play with 7 of your friends in current gen videogames you need at least $1610 (if we doesn't count PS+ and find a game with 4 player split-screen), to play 8 player game of Twilight Imperium you'll need only $270 and it is considered expensive. On top of that you not only won't need an internet (and PS+), you'll also won't need even electricity.
Tekken doesn't deserve to be on the thumbnail of this video imo. Sure it is annoying what they did in tekken 7 with having you to pay for frame data and the ability to lab dlc characters, but other fighting titles such as Mortal Kombat and SF have had users pay for specific abilities and cosmetics. It's safe to say that the gaming scene overall is downhill because of Microtransactions and whilst tekken has been a bit guilty from 7, it seems like 8 isn't going to make the same mistakes.
