Its a good alternative to "ayyo lemme just lab out this 30 hit combo with 3 microdashes on a character I will never, ever play myself, even once, because they hold absolutely no appeal, so I can record the AI doing it and see when I could escape"
Did you know Planetary Annihilation has this feature built into its chronocam function? I wish this made it into every Real Time Strategy as well as every fighting game. It's a bit more clunky in PA then it is in a fighting game, and I'm sure there's a few places it breaks, but, the fact it's there at all is amazing
THIS is the accessibility people have been asking for and needed. Every game needs strong training mode options: public hitbox viewer, public frame data, replay takeover, input display on replays - all included in the game It's like if every game that was played came with an itemized receipt. Fighting games that actually explains "what happens" and consistent online quality would do SO MUCH in retaining people.
Something else replay takeover does is it that it helps the game evolve. You can not only learn about the other characters, you can learn/lab other players’ habits/tactics, and vice versa.
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@deco7217 I think the point they're trying to convey is something along the lines of "Why would they let you train against DLC characters without paying, even through a replay takeover" I don't agree with that though, since there's games that do let you use DLC in training mode, such as Multiversus, Brawlhalla and hilariously enough, For Honor. Also other games let you fight against DLC without owning them, but not as them, such as Guilty Gear Strive, where characters show up in arcade mode. (for example, if you own Bridget but not Goldlewis, you'll still fight Goldlewis in Bridget's arcade route)
Aside from how practical it is, it also does a good job of making learning the match up fun. Words cannot describe how satisfying it is when you get hit by a mixup, go back in time and practice the situation over and over, then get into a real match against the character and DP out that same mixup because you were ready for it this time.
Replay takeover is the greatest innovation in FG's we have seen since Rollback. I hope to see this becomes a critical feature faster than it did for rollback . thanks for the video so I can share with friends.
Every FGC dev team should be legally obligated to include this godlike feature. +R blew my mind with this and is easily my favorite FG, partly because of replay takeover
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@tylercafe1260 what? DLC is not available in training mode for free because the developers want to earn money for their work. FGs are expensive to build and due to the long running nature of the games, require constant maintenance to stay relevant and that costs more money
@@tylercafe1260 my brother in christ you can only control your own character in the replay feature, and even if that wasn't the case what you said makes no sense either, people don't even like playing against the AI why would they enjoy playing the same part of a match all over again
Replay takeover is amazing, as of now i believe there's like 3 FGs that have it (Fightcade just implemented it today) those being +r, Eternal Fighter Zero (This being the first one to actually implement it!) and the Breakers collection (Releasing in january of next year), is so good!
My main problem when it comes to training is not being able to lab something because I don't have or want the character I'm having trouble against especially after already buying the game for like $60 (looking at you GG strive)
The Steam versions of KoF 02 UM and KoF 98 UM don't quite have this, but they do let you enter the dummy's inputs on a frame-by-frame basis, literally "writing" them out in a special menu. Definitely not as important as jumping into replays, but I still think it's something every game should have.
This, alongside rollback netcode and reasonable matchmaking should be in EVERY currently releasing fighting game with a decent budget. No excuses. Make your game systems as complex as you want, but also help people get to grips with them.
this is the greatest fighting game yt channel ever, I mean, whats better than playing fighting games, talking about fighting games and listening to Monolord at the same time? The only thing that can make this better is to do all this with some friends and junk food
I have been preaching about this Feature ever since I first saw it in +R, I wouldnt have gotten into guilty gear as fast as I did without it its so amazing holy shit oh my fucking god it needs to be in EVERY fighting game.
I wasn't the dev who came up with the idea, but i was *a* dev working on the +R rollback/QoL update. Big thanks to sat0ri who was the majority of the effort behind the replay takeover, and I think the feature was one of the best ideas not just us but FG devs have had in a long time. If there's anyone you have to thank for this wonderful feature, it's him. I personally don't play +R anymore, I speedrun, but I would be profusely using this all the time to learn the game. I'm glad +R update wasn't just known for yknow, rollback as a lot of other things went into it: 3+ man lobbies of various types, quick rematch, a functional ranked match, etc. The comments and video have me speechless, even though I wasn't the one to lay hands on the feature. It's a reminder that what we did was impactful and helped a lot of people enjoy this game in a way they wouldn't be able to otherwise, which was the goal. Thank you TheoryFighter for the highlight, and everyone, keep on rockin'.
I'm in a TheoryFighter video! (Shout out to Carly Raou Jepsen, that guy is sick ;) ) But seriously, replay takeover is so unbelievably amazing. Once you experience it, it's hard to go back and try to learn games without it. I would even say that once you get to mid level and higher, it can be more valuable than training mode as a whole. Every new game release that goes by without it is very disappointing, and the first big new game to implement this feature will certainly be getting a lot of hours from me.
I like to sit down and replay takeover as my opponent after they inflict a particularly savage beating on me and then imagine I was the one winning instead.
Can replay takeover be the greatest feature if less than 1% of players will ever use it? There are so many other amazing features but this is the one you are calling the greatest?
It might feel a bit accessory, but once you get to use it, it feels just so incredibly useful to have to figure out any situations you struggled with. It makes the whole learning process just make more sense. I cannot say it enough, but the loop of playing matches > using the replays to figure out stuff that impacted you directly works a lot better than going raw into training mode for a game like this one.
More fighting games need Replay Takeover. GG Axxent Core is a fucking godsend in this regard. EDIT: Also quick rewind and fast-forward tools. Every time I jump into a Counter-Strike replay it's always a pain in the ass watching the ENTIRE game needing to reload when I skip forward two seconds.
100% true. i cant do goldlewis running behemoths with jump inputs in strive, so its hard for me to get comfortable on defense. It's also an advanced technique not commonly seen in layer 1, so when I try to learn new characters when i play online its pretty rare for me to see it, and when they start bringing it out I can't really react and experiment.
Great video, but I don’t think this feature will help new players get into the genre that wouldn’t have otherwise. Going into your replays to analyze situations and find counters is something only mid to high level players do IMO. Not to mention a new player won’t know/think about a lot of things to help them analyze the situation and find counterplay.
The thing that's going to hook new players IMO is quality single-player content... and I'm not talking about cinematic story modes that you can fully experience on youtube. Rather than a text tutorial the size of a small novel, teach the player how to play the game organically using a story/adventure mode, other genres have been doing this stuff since the dawn of the gaming industry and I don't think it's too big of an ask for the fighting game genre to finally get on that boat.
@@kevingriffith6011 Yeah that is a great idea, though I can think of a few fighting game specific problems that would make using a story mode to effectively teach the player quite the design challenge.
@@mariocraft3067 Part of that I think comes down to enemy design. You can teach your players a lot by putting them up against enemies that behave in a certain way, especially if you tell them that they're going to behave that way beforehand. Not just "This guy is a grappler" or "This guy jumps a lot", but telling players "this creature will always mash on block", "This creature will always EX DP on block", stuff like that, and use a hint system if players get stuck on a behavior they can't figure out. Get players used to opponents presenting common options so that they can identify these behaviors in their human opponents. Frame data and...oddly blocking would be hard to teach without text, but most of the basic mechanics aren't that tough for people to figure out. Steal one from Fantasy Strike and change the color of the block sparks when your move is plus, minus or even, give the players as much data as you can in game so they don't have to dig up frame data online... Even more advanced things like RPS can be taught... the real problem is that the AI would have to be much *much* more than an afterthought... and making an NPC fighter is much more work than making a monster in an RPG.
@@kevingriffith6011 To be cost effective, they would have to modify AI behavior of existing characters (assuming they don't have easy character creation options like SF6). I second giving the frame data in-game, even better if you can see if for a move the moment you perform it.
Great video! I wonder which game invented replay takeover. The earliest one I know of is the 2003 PS2 port of Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou, but I have no idea whether or not there are earlier examples.
Re the inputs for training complex situations, there is not only replay takeover but also some 3rd party stuff like EddieInput that allows you to program complex mixups and loops instead of recording them for training. Should be helpful for labbing Zato in Accent core.
"Games detect what you need to learn" Horrible idea. Not only does this assume the Devs know every possible outcome but implies a solved game. I don't think you understand what you're really asking for here. Like for example ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YJ7UH8nbB3I.html How can a game training mode possibly ever convince of that? Also should the devs even tell us things like these? Even though they're ridiculous hard and super situational and require a deep fundamental understanding of fighting games to even comprehend why this even works? The answer? Even the devs don't know every answer. That's upon us the players to discover. They simply give us tools and not the solutions for these tools. That would be a solved game in that case. We don't want solved games. I want situations where there's a dozen other valid options with their own unique risk reward. Not just a flowchart. A genuinely adaptive and expressive experience. Did you forget the main appeal to fighting games? It's all on you. So start talking about them as they are and not what we wish them to be. It's not just you it's literally everybody. I'm sick and tired of these huge misinformation campaigns. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m2cGC01B-ZQ.html
Because of the skill ceiling and learning curve, Fighting games struggle enveloping win states Imagine if in order to go a round of go-karts, you had to get a kart licence, work out with a grip resistance for a month to tune your motor skills, and roll up to the speedway with proof of a close shave (at age 14) before you can even step foot on the course In that format, the market would fail because it can never outperform the previous years sales. You shoot yourself in the foot when you create barriers to entry or at the very least make your experience exclusionary. The gaming industry is not a country club for retired entrepreneurs, you need eyeballs. Particularly young eyeballs with a significant amount of free time on their hands Games are like the sneakers, the ball/equipment, and the entire court all in one sitting. The only way to sell someone on this is to make the experience attractive behind a glass barrier. So sports have auditoriums with hardened professionals rallying their skills what do games have? Online. Trouble is you get online and you are playing _against_ the professional to the point where you rarely even see play. So at no point are the values of the experience exposing themselves to the mind. Game devs for fighters are aware of this problem, but they are not promoters, the are programmers. They can only approach the issue of poor sales through iteration. New games, patches, expanded content. Essentially, make hay while the sun is shining If they were more committed to the prospect of getting people to see WHY they ought to play their game, they would model the experience around results. Ways that seeing play goes beyond the win This is why games like Killer Instinct, Guilty Gear, and Smash work really well. Everything about those games is interpreting what the character can *do* and how to compound *doing* within the engine. It's not so much _seeing_ play as it is knowing what gets play and getting to the point where your approach can become interesting Everyone knows that showing up to the Olympics means that you have proven to be a contender. The rest of that experience is finding out what makes the Gold. Then it's about the nuance of technique, timing, genetics, and other factors that qualify as strength I highly doubt a person would get to peak performance if every day of his humble beginnings were spent getting knocked down and barred from even trying. It's amazing that software developers can matriculate the horizontal and the vertical, but can't seem to grasp that their enormous game can only incorporate an hour's worth of play This may have worked in the coin op days, but these days it's exceptionally time consuming to be good at something niche like a fighting game. Try basket weaving or day trading
I wonder if it would be possible to mod in a "copy-paste" replay function in training mode to games that have rollback and save replays. Because the replay file the game saves is just a string of inputs from both players that it plays back for you in the replay feature. Thus, it shouldn't be too big of a leap to have a mod that can read the replay file while you're in training mode (or even just copy inputs from it) so you can implement the feature into those games.
That's all well and good, but things like these or intricate labbing setting are hard for me. I never learn how to operate this stuff and it doesn't help that I haven't graduated from media-related side at all...So instead I'll go with experience, trial and error.
You know it's kind of funny. I'm a beginner myself, still getting my footing, learning what I do and don't enjoy and getting that muscle memory in. Been starting with Strive, as many do. But replay takeover puts into practice a feeling I've had about what Strive did differently to "hook" me. Funnily enough, from another way you mentioned learning. Which is via repeated matchups against the same foe rather than strings of Bo3. It felt like very often, when I'd play another fighting game against someone who wasn't a beginner. I'd just spend a whole match eating blockstrings in a corner, or getting combos when I failed to see a mixup. But that changed when, having those thrown at me repeatedly and consistently, I started to find the ways to react. The timing for a DP or even just a quick kick to break free and take my turn back. I think that's really important, and replay takeover is perhaps a more practical implementation of it if a game doesn't wish to use Strive's arcade emulation lobby style. Just so long as the player is encouraged to use it. Realizing that, even at a low skill level, you have a lot of power in how you respond to an offensive, that's a big deal. Maybe not as flashy as pulling off that sweet optimal combo you spent an hour labbing, but I think it's infinitely more impactful as far as utilizing your characters full kit and maximum ability. Plus like, I keep running into people on floor 6 who'll have a 40 hit wallbreak combo memorized and pull it of 4 times a match. But keep losing to a command grab when getting up after a knockdown. Which is I guess a more memey way of getting across the feeling I have about it as a total newbie.
This or at least Xrd's matchup tutorials (or both) really should just be staples in fighting games. Combo maker too. Really, this stuff should've been standard years ago.
training modes...are laterally evolving :( there's newer features but moreso things weve already been doing but them providing more convenient ways. replay takeover tho is for sure a huge innovation. i really hope strive gets it soon...for s3. the thing about the game recommending a tutorial (or much much better, a mini game) would honestly change the entire landscape. Idk it's frustrating because it often feels like devs dont really think of ways to truly advance gaming until people yell about it...but anyways i guess we'll just have to keep on going. thanks for the video.
Also I generally have the mentality that I will learn any fighting game that offers interactive replay, I dont really care too much about Tekken but if T8 gets interactive replay I will become a Tekken Player.
WHOA! This feature is so fucking SICK! I wish we got that more because that would be SO GOOD for training! i personally have a hard time trying to recreate situations that i get stumped on in the training room so to be able to do that would be so GOOD! I'd love to see this in more fighting games!!
I had no idea +R got a feature like this. It does sound amazing for learning particular aspects of a matchup, and I absolutely agree that it should be in every FG.
That pleasant sensation when someone summarizes your exact opinion clearly, concisely, in a recorded format that one can just link to. Being required to execute something to lab against it effectively is a barrier people often don't realize is there until it's gone
Been following your channel since Street Fighter 4 days where you taught people about option selects and safe jumps with Rose. I feel like you are the best teacher and I seriously feel like you can even teach college/university level courses on how to play. Thank you for your awesome content.
I want this in BBCF so badly. Everyone I play has been playing this game for like 5 years and playing matches against better players can feel like I'm not learning anything at all, and I absolutely do not have the time to go learn how to do all their shit just to lab against it. Training tools make such a huge difference in how you can play a game. superb video.
I'd imagine an advanced evolution of this would be frame-by-frame input creator. Similar to the combo recipie system in Strive, but instead letting you save TAS level inputs to create your own nightmare mixup to devise an escape for as opposed to relying on raw, real-time execution.
Replay takeover feels like a baseline feature for a modern, connected game. Imagine Evo Moment 37 - but it's you, not Daigo, who needs to to the parries. Lots of potential!
The first minute and a half of this video was awesome to watch and really makes me hope we end up seeing a ton of new 2D fighting games being released. I'm just pretty tired of most 3D art style fighting games..
I just found out about this. It's such a great tool, I'm surprised more games don't implement it. A lot of newbies usually ignore replays but this could help nudge them in the right direction.
Do they perhaps have this in BB:CF? Learning characters takes quite a bit of time and is quite time-consuming as well This tool could be extremely useful to learning the match-ups between various characters!
If you're wondering why this feature is only available in +R and not in Strive; that's because ArcSys didn't implement it. A group of fans and Mike Z from Skullgirls brought Rollback and Replay Takeover to +R.
Replay Takeover is such a BIG game changer. The amount of time it saves for everyone would make a huge different between "wanting to get good" and "getting good". I mean basicly it comes down to "watch your replays" - BUT let's be real here. Who not on a100% competitive drive would watch his/her replays AND then get into the lab and recreate the situation. So it would improve absolutly everything. I do that, but I HATE IT. I hate it so much, that I only watch replays of matches I got mid-match big questions. For me personal would this feature change everything about this hate. It takes away the part I hate the most of watch replay sessions, and I am 100% sure that I am not the only one thinking that way. I know from many friends of mine who tried fighting games, that mostly the thing they hate the most is getting Matchup knowledge and doing training mode things instead of actual playing. Sure you could say, that this is part of the game or that Replay Takeover would not change that much in regards of their mindset. But even if there would be only one in my friend group, who would use this feature on a semi-regular basis, he/she WOULD get better 2000000000% sure. So yeah, that is one of the features we need asap as a standard.
Thanks for using proper rendering for pixel graphics. I don't even care much for the fighting game stuff, but I had to comment on this. I hate modern obsession with blocky pixel art, that is supposed to be "nostalgic". Old games played on CRTs didn't look like modern pixel art. They actually looked good. And another thing, \m/
@ 3:18 Which is as it *should* be. :3 @ 4:27 Oh that's sooooooo good! :D Thank you Arksys! What an invention! @ 5:50 Why do i care about that? That's something CAPCOM and the companies care about. Look, there's *always* been Fighting Games, there's always going to BE Fighting Games. Everyone said they'd be dead since forever ago and now there are actually TOO many for me to even catch up with! Even just the great ones! Not that this is a non issue to me, i'm just on the other side of it. As a competitor it behooves me to NOT attempt to grow my own base of opponents. Duh. Also that logo is the *dumbest* sigil i have EVER seen. An' i grew up when KISS was a thing. It is a joke right? i mean it's NOT funny but i can see how some pseudo edgelord might think it was "metal." Geez. Boomers. xD
Yeah yeah, amazing video, really cool that such a great feature is being talked about, whatever. Did you seriously pronounce I-no as "eye-no"? Disliked. /s
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets. Fighting games are being held back do to predatory business practices and the modern landscape of DLCs. There's literally nothing we can do about it. All you did was misinform new players and gave everyone false hope.
I wonder if you were to implement this feature would you eliminate the "replay" option and replace it with a big ol' "Play Again?" Menu option. This will then put an emphasis on the player playing the match again and Jumping into the match whenever they want OVER Just watching the match back
Me personally, when I start a game I just jump straight into ranked with a character I think is cool is a thing yeah but I guess going unga bunga to build muscle memory for how people actually play the game and their habits rather than play the ai and learn how to combo before learning when to do them. Dbfz was probably my last real experience of this cuz, like Mike said, everybody has a plan until they get punched in their mouth. I never even understood what superdashing was but I quickly learned how vulnerable it left me when everyone would hit me with some form of uppercut which I later found out to just simply be down heavy. After that, I found out the even with my back to the wall, I can’t just rely on an invincible move of some sort to bail me out. Couldn’t just sit and react to seeing my opponent flinch cuz I quickly learned how fucking humble a vanish is. I could go on and on about things like this but I mean sometimes learning the game by playing game is beneficial af like if you say fuck leaving, you’ll reach that solid point where no one can pull the same trick on you twice😂
nother thing all fighting games should have is letting us face against DLC characters we haven't bought. I used to play Mortal Kombat 11 and Sheeva's stomp was really stupid. She can change the timing of it and at the time the stomp had a really big hitbox that sucked you in. There was no run button so all you could do is mash dash or do character specific moves. Would've been nice to practice against her but nope, they didn't give us that option and there was no way I was buying that lol
Shoutouts to Tekken 7s replay system giving you some tips like this move could be crouch dodged. That is at least somewhat helpful on its own and could work wonders in conjunction with replay takeover.
some games have frame-by-frame action input for training mode, so if you understand how something is done, you can make the computer player do it without having to actually execute it yourself. useful as a supplement to replay takeover.
Funny enough Blazblue Central Fiction also solved this problem on console by letting people send their recordings over by the in game message board. I wish they brought that back
Should of figured Arcsys would be the one to make a feature like this, they're on top of that stuff. I've actually been wanting to make a fighting game and this is almost identical to a feature I wanted to put in.
Its like real fighting coachs, were they mimic the next rival with recordings in real time, like mitts in boxing, they make real movements that you can understand and counter, i have seen it in a ton of FGC videos, but FG are just like fighting, so trying to ground it to what people actually experience or actual fighting coaches do is the way to go.
Such a fantastic tool for players like myself who have poor execution in general it's a shame it hasn't been implemented in any games I personally like yet but hopefully that's just a matter of time.
I honestly think it's unnecessary(it's not like everyone who uses a certain character will always use the same strategies)...but for those who may need it, there's nothing wrong with it.
