Final Fantasy VII Remake - Who Is In Charge? Jenova or Sephiroth? 

Unpopular opinion, I want Jenova to play a bigger role in the remake

I like the 3rd personally. Sephiroth is still Sephiroth but he has now assimilated to Jenova's will

Personally, I think Sephiroth is in full control over his own actions, but that doesn't mean he isn't being manipulated. The true "art" of deceiving is, to let someone never even suspect of being deceived. Or in other words: If your entire world breaks down and you are just mentally done, if the wrong person / being tells you that you are special, not the others and everyone is your enemy, then that notion might become your new "truth". Jenova probably used Hojos claim of her being a Cetra in his research notes, against Sephiroth. (He thought that this must be the truth. Not even knowing that his true mother is still out there, more or less alive) With that being said, I don't think Jenova ever really speaks to Sephiroth or anyone else, but invokes like feelings. Having the drive to go to a certain reunion, or maybe pushes your build up anger against the world ever so slightly further up. Always staying in the shadows, never letting you suspect anything. But ultimately, she pushes you towards her own goals. I find Bizarro Sephiroth very interesting in this regard. Due to his stuttery animations, it appears as if there is an internal conflict between Seph and Jenova. Like, she just went up against Clound and the gang (Jenova Synthesis) and got her cheeks clapped and now, seeing her plans are about to be ruined, desperately tries to overtake Sephiroth. Without much success. The ending of FF7R leaves everything open really. We have no clue if Seph has realized of what is really going on, if it's a completely new tactic of manipulation, or if the devs are messing with us and sephiroths warns us of badly written characters coming back, to destory our beloved franchise completely. (Genesis & Weiss) Personally, I hope Jenova is ultimately the enemy, as FF villains are usually not really bad, but rather broker people / poor souls. (With the exceptions of a certain clown maybe...) And I'm a sucker for happy endings. Having Sephiroth fighting alongside the group against Jenova would be sooo awesome!

Its confirmed by many Magazines and the novel that jenova was always in charge

The Thing is very intelligent. It almost made a space ship in the matter of hours. The scariest horror movie monster ever imo.

I like to think Sephiroth is technically the final boss and is in control But jenova eroded his mind influencing him to that point.

I believe Sephiroth’s mind and will is so strong that’s the reason why Jenova cannot take full control of him like the rest of the puppets making them sick. Sephiroth keeps showing up in the story besides having his cells inside Cloud. Sephiroth is almost a deity. I honestly believe Jenova is a virus who can form a body or control someone who has a weak mind or will. Angeal became suicidal, Genesis fell ill knowing he was never number 1. Sephiroth finding out he was a project by Jenova. Cloud knowing he took Zack’s identity. Jenova has influence when someone strong becomes weak.

The entire point of Jenova... is that you think that you are in control, but she is the last survivor from her origin.... last one standing, and a very simple lifeform, no more, no less, evolved to be the last and fittest survivor of her world. Sephiroth THINKS he is in control, Hojo THINKS he is in control... but no, they are all below her in the order. The entire point is that no matter what you do in life, you can't escape death, this is the cruel side of nature. These systems of control inflict pain and suffering on those around us... But she is the last one standing. Sephiroth even talks to her, but she doesn't... she doesn't talk at all in fact. She should have never been touched. She is the definitive boss of Final fantasy 7, and that makes that hidden aspect of the story... so F-ing cool. Sephiroth even calls her mother, but he was wrong, he was born in a womb, he actually has a mother, he was only injected with cells, and if you pay attention especially as it is highlighted in Crisis Core, there are many many references to assumptions people made that were erroneous and it piles up throughout the game. I mean think about it, Just before Zack dies, you find out that she was mailing letters to Zack that never got to him, only to find out that Shinra actually cared and intended to have the Turks deliver them to Zack... but it was a loose end that never got resolved, and no one ever finds that out. That is just where it ends. The army found Zack before the Turks did and he died tragically, and it was covered up, just like the rest of the First Class soldiers involved with the crisis core incident. This story writing was so subtle, and I think there was something lost in translation... but it's my favorite story, aside of Lord of the Rings. Not the same stories obviously.... but I love how subtle the power of good was. FF7 series is about when evil in well hidden and insidious, how we get confused and turn against each other, and how we think we are in control.

Interesting take. I'm glad you gave this aspect of the story a platform to be discussed! Personally, I think Jenova being almost fully in control is the most interesting for a few reasons. In terms of nuanced writing, I feel like it's great misdirection, especially after revealing sephiroth as a threat beyond Shinra. It seems too generic/obvious for this story to have the main villain being a sword/magic wielding warrior type. Jenova being in control also adds a lot of emotional depth to the story, which crisis core adds to, because it's so easy to put the hate on a warrior who slaughters innocents and burns villages down. Seeing the more human side of sephiroth in crisis core, i think, adds to the emotional intensity of his character with regard to absolving his responsibility for the tragedies he wrought rather than blunting his character arc. Additionally, when you realize that even sephiroth is a victim as powerful as he is, it also adds to the threat level of jenova itself. I feel like she had control of him since birth, but let him flex a contained degree of freewill with her powers as a form of manipulation through flattery/pride, waiting until he found out about his origins, the answers of which happened to be located in the same town as her containment. I also believe that we only see the actual sephiroth in the o.g. twice (once crystalized in the cutscene, and then when fighting safer sephiroth). The rest of the whole game is her using shapeshifting mimicry and the inherent memory of his power. I mean what's more compelling from a writing point of view: a sword wielding character thats basically an analogue of the characters you're already playing as but "stronger," or a shapeshifting alien that hits like a psychotic, viral delirium who crucifies and manipulates a false antagonist believed to be the strongest person on the planet? To m, that'ss why sephiroth being in control would be cheap writing and a waste of potential complexity the story could have.

I have my own theory. I am a very big Sephiroth fan, but I think that Jenova is in charge. My theory is, that there are 2 Sephiroth's. Sephiroth was a nice guy before the events of nibelheim. He cared for his companians and his friends. He even asked a noname soldier (young cloud) how he feels because he was sick from driving. He also cared for Zack,Angeal and Genesis. He was far away from the influence of Jenova and was quite normal minded. Yes he was a nightmare for all enemys... but ok. For his friends he was nice. Then, he and zack came to the nibelheim reactor. Jenova reached his mind and startet by planting thoughts in his mind and began to strengthen his fears. Sephiroth's mind became poisoned by it and jenova got more and more control over him... but. Sephiroth was extreme strong and it was only a matter of time till he breaks free from her control. Jenova couldnt lose such an strong servant,so she decided to break him completely. She throwed zack and cloud at him and helped them to kill Sephiroth. This is the end of the original Sephiroth. In the lifestream, sephiroth would have died and even if he didnt, his mind would dissolve and die over the years in it. Who really think that cloud could kill sephiroth without a little help (from Jenova?!). After a long time. Sephiroth's husk would be stuffed with an nearly unlimited amount of knowledge about everything on gaia from every times. This was the perfect puppet for jenova. So, the second Sephiroth was born. But only as a puppet. This Sephiroth never showed some positive feelings to anyone. He just lived for his goals. For the reunion with mother. And even his clones, jenovas plan b, had only this goal. Becoming complete again by the reunion. The clones where in my eyes just new versions of the great puppet of her and like the swarm of minds she was,she could control them and connect their minds. Sorry, got to far away. I think that the Sephiroth in ff7 ist just a vessel for jenova and the real sephiroth died in nibelheim. (Even in the anime, sephiroth was killed by jenovas order...) But,its just my personal theory. (Sorry for the awful english)

So, I came across some very interesting revelations about Sephiroth and Jenova in remake. These revelations come from FF8 and how it's story was created from the parts of FF7 that were written out of the story. Which would be the parts referencing witchcraft and the occult. Sephiroth and the Sephiroth clones are all that remains of that on the surface, but Remake is definitely returning to these ideas in a big way. The biggest reason I brought of FF8 is it's story regarding Time Compression and having a singularity in which cities are protected from the other timelines in the time compressed world through barriers (Whisper dome?). The main villain is also a future entity which is changing the past by possessing sorcerers at different points in the past. Then there is Edea who was originally a FF7 character. She was possessed by ultimecia, and later released when Ultimecia moved on to another host (return of Ore Sephiroth?, Evil Cloud?) Then finally, there is the FF8 Ultimania artwork of Adel and Rinoa which I think speaks for itself when you see it. I haven't played this game in over 20 years and my mind is blown right now. I know FF8 is only canon to FF8, but considering it's close relationship with FF7 and the re-use of these ideas, I think it serves as the next best thing to canon if you want to know whats going on in Remake. There is way more than what I jut mentioned. But I am leaning toward a third villain which is one that we have yet to encounter lore-wise. That is unless you consider Nanaki's 'Gilligan' to be an encounter because that is who I think it is and Jenova is just one of it's victims being repurposed.

Now this is a fun topic. Before the compilation was introduced the staff heavily encouraged the idea that Sephiroth was in charge. That was probably what they thought at the time and they were able to successfully pull back from that direction without error. Flexible writing. As the compilation had been added to what was what became more obscure, and then remake confirmed that until the Singularity events Jenova had been the main driver. So by now finally having Sephiroth in charge beyond a doubt (or so it seems, but I’d say he is now) we now have a full mystery of motive yet again. We really don’t know his end game now, but he’s probably more dangerous than ever. Even though he was kind of screwed over from the start by Shinra, and pushed over the edge by Jenova, there’s no turning back for someone that far gone. So I’m going with Seph in charge and more driven than ever. I liked the idea in the OG as Sephiroth taking control of Jenova, so learning now that it wasn’t the case but now might be makes him more terrifying.

I believe jenova controlled him all through out the original. At the end of remake sephiroth seems sane and unaffected by jenova. As when clouds having his mental flash thing sephiroth keeps him from falling over and even says to him easy now what lies ahead had not yet happened

I think the 4th one where Jenova is basicaly instinct affecting Sepiroth is the best one since it would explain his plans for the future, which come down to simply following a pointless cycle. It is an instinct he choose to follow which is why he can control Jenova cells if another one were to follow them he too might get the same ability.

Great vid, this is one of the most important questions in FF7 I think. I think neither is in charge is the most interesting

Anyone else think that the abandoned aspect of Sephiroth (that he purposely chucked away in Meteor) will play a part in whether we get a redeem Sephiroth or not? I’m also recalled to the simulation scene with Sephiroth and Cloud standing back to back. I think they gotta (we as players) will have to help Sephiroth find it (find himself). Just like Tifa did for Cloud in the life stream.

Jenova only speaks once in FFVII. She says "you are a puppet" moments after Sephiroth kills Aerith in the Forgotten City. Her words are directed at Cloud, but if you subscribe to the theory that Jenova is in control here, she could easily be speaking to Sephiroth as well. The Final Fantasy series has a history of the "obvious" villain being influenced by the "hidden" villain. In VIII, Edea is possessed or mind-controlled by Ultimecia, a sorceress from the future. In X, Sin is a product of the summoner Yu Yevon, whose being has been so consumed by his creation that nothing of him remains but an empty husk. Sephiroth is quite clearly the villain of FFVII, so in the series tradition, it would make sense for him to be a puppet.

Sephiroth is in control but he is permanently attached to the metaphorical umbilical cord of Jenova. She is still the puppet master in the end.

So I took it upon myself to find the exact pages within the Ultimania Omega that pinpoint this topic and have found some very interesting information that actually states that both Sephiroth and Jenova are involved together, but there’s a big asterix on the “both” and “Jenova” parts to this. There are actually pages dedicated completely to parsing which specific Sephiroth sightings are Sephiroth or Jenova (pg. 212), but again, there’s still a caveat to the latter. I had a hard time translating that particular page, but I believe my simple layout in the next two paragraphs states it accurately. Beginning with Sephiroth, anything and everything to do with Cloud and the Sephiroth clones who had Jenova cells injected into them (the black cloaked people who were mentally broken from the Nibelheim fire and experimentally tested upon by Hojo) are being controlled by Sephiroth. That’s confirmed clearly on pg. 211 on a picture excerpt, the second from the bottom. The exact quote states: “Reunion is an ability as a Jenova (part/cell), but orders to Sephiroth Copies are for (from) Sephiroth as their master.” (Direct translation, but anything in parentheses here is actually what I believe the imperfect translation is saying. I don’t think any of my additions are stretches, merely clarifications that make it easier to read). The other part to it is Jenova, more specifically her body parts (throughout the game, not including the one named SYNTHESIS at the end) which as I stated before, are confirmed to be acting purely on the impulse of mimicking Sephiroth’s will instinctively, even if there was a time thousands of years ago where she was alive and aware of the use of her abilities to shapeshift, deceive, close proximity, and infect. So during FF7 proper she’s not conscious of this, and also Sephiroth is not directly controlling her, but she is still carrying out his will instinctively because she’s instinctively mimicking is personality, memories, desires, and thus his will. She is simply a husk of her former self, the same way the Cetra are also not conscious anymore, but expressed now through the judgement of the planet. So instead of being more of a puppet being controlled by Sephiroth, she’s really more of a minion, albeit one for a super being who is congruent with her instinctive purpose. This is also clearly confirmed on pg. 211, on the second large paragraph of the page: “Once upon a time (said in this way as to insinuate not anymore), Jenova used this ability to get close to the Ancients and plant a virus in them, causing them to die.” Continuing in that very same paragraph, again on pg. 211, it’s even confirmed some of Cloud’s front/personality/memories during the beginning of FF7 that carry throughout the game are not just Zack’s, but the Jenova cells within him instinctively copying Tifa’s memory of Cloud whenever they met just before the start OG FF7 before Cloud agreed to help Avalanche, where he started acting very funny and unstable until he meets Tifa. Tifa elaborates on this before they really delve deep into Cloud’s subconscious in the lifestream if my memory serves me well. The quote on that page states: “Not only Jenova itself, but also those who possess the cell have the ability to speak (not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean exactly), albeit imperfectly. Just before the start of the story, Cloud, who had a mental breakdown, returned to a seemingly normal state as soon as he met Tifa. By Jenova’s ability within him, because Jenova’s cells read Cloud in Tifa’s memory and Cloud's ideal image, it formed a new personality” (which is the personality Cloud is expressing in the start of the OG FF7). It’s confirmed again on pg. 213, where the quote states: “Cloud, perhaps because he was weaker than ordinary people both mentally and physically, could not become a SOLDIER and could not even maintain himself as a Sephiroth copy like the other residents of Nibelheim, and his spirit completely collapsed. After reuniting with his childhood friend Tifa in Midgar, he was supported by a false personality that was neither a copy of himself nor his original self.” These examples are here to show how Jenova(‘s remains) can have her (their, in relation to her remains) abilities instinctively (also to say unconsciously) work in other aspects even outside of the Jenova/Sephiroth original debate. So while both Sephy and Jenova are involved and shown in Sephiroth’s image, sometimes it’s Sephy actually taking control (like the cases of Cloud and those in black cloaks) and sometimes it’s an instinctive Jenova part, which instinctually mimics the shape, memories, and will of Sephiroth, again more like a minion, as Sephiroth isn’t actually directly controlling her 3 main parts, but she is robotically going through the motions of doing what she does as a mimic, and she has most likely instinctively mimicked what would most closely serve her instinctive purpose of destroying a planet and moving on to the next one to do the same. Sephy probably learns of Aeris’ death on his own, as she went back to the lifestream he was inhabiting when she passed (maybe Sephiroth also has some way of learning what parts of his will are carried out by her parts somehow as well? Not sure and can’t speak to it atm, but just a thought that came to my mind along this logical path of thought). Something else that speaks to Sephiroth and his power is stated on pg. 213 regarding why some like Cloud get overcome, some like Zack don’t, but again mainly why Sephy has his power: “The case of Sephiroth is extremely special. Until he learned the secret of his birth, he lived as a human despite his legendary strength, and five years ago he began to walk a different path from humans. However, instead of being placed under Jenova's control, he seizes Jenova's initiative and controls their actions. This fact makes us feel the extraordinary strength of the life form Sephiroth.” It’s also stated within the book that Sephiroth does officially die in Nibelheim 5 years ago (around the same pages mentioned already but if you want a specific passage I’d gladly go back in and find it), showing within FF7 proper itself how the great mechanic of the lifestream that speaks to the beautiful theme of life that the game is conveying is also what allows Sephiroth to be this Lovecraftian type fear and entity, one who does not die or completely cease, always looming, who can actually come back to the surface through the means of a weak/broken mind (or possibly even a willing participant). Please let me know if you would like pdfs of these pages as well in case you would like to copy and paste them into translation programs to see it for yourself. Pdfs of the Ultimania Omega can also be found on google, as well as more translations about these topics and many other pages of support from the Ultimania Omega on gamefaqs.com (can also provide that to you as well). I’d also love to hear your opinion on all this as well. Let me know if you have anything you’d like to share.

I'm not a fan of Sephiroth 'giving in' to Jenova and becoming the host. It throws away the concept of him being all powerful and trying to be a god. He ends becoming nothing more than say Weiss to Omega/Hojo, or Vincent to Chaos. It's very out of character for Sephiroth. I think it's very likely that Sephiroth was initially taken over by Jenova, but he learned to control her through his own will, and we see this playing out in OG. Also in OTWTAS, Sephiroth specifically says that he wants Cloud to know that this is all HIS doing. Sephiroth's goal is to be the source of everything. Therefore, Sephiroth has been (and still is very much), the one in control.

Great video. I think you and I pretty much have the same Jenova theories competing against each other. Since discovering the "Winged Victory of Samothrace", I have been leaning toward Jenova's body being an infected Cetra or similar entity. One of the things I took notice to in the Ultimania Omega is the note in the Jenova Drawing that says it should appear as if hands are restrained behind back. That said, when you look at Jenova's body, does it look like an all powerful deity, or does it look like it is being restrained and deformed against it's will? If there is another conscious entity besides Sephiroth, then it must be the entity that made Jenova into what it currently is. because it is a very deep subject which relates to the events of the singularity which is also a very deep subject. The challenge this poses is that my method is basically learning the mythology and then determining how it relates to the lore to develop a theory. The predicament is that there is no precedence in FFVII lore for time travel and singularities. This leaves me with very little to work with on the lore side of things. But here is what I have gathered thus far. As mentioned previously, we're talking about Choronzon and the abyss. There is graffiti in the Ultimania which may be a reference to this entity. The one I am referring to is the one showing 3 pyramids floating in space with a one eyed monster in the background. On its right hand, you'll see that its fingers take the form of Whispers which are also known as 'feelers' in Japan.Choronzon only exists as a conciousness that can take any form within the abyss. Having no true form of it's own means that it only copies and distorts other forms from memories of those it has encountered. It also conjures 'dust devils' to corrupt and destroy memory. Remeber the harbinger the tornadoes funneling material into the black hole?. To overcome Choronzon, one must endure 'ego death' which is to shed our false persona which is our ego. One who fails to overcome Choronzon is called a 'black brother' (Sephiroth Clone?) as they are subject to its influence and may become possessed. This is Choronzon's goal as it is a means for Choronzon to exist in the realm of physical space. I think we can see where this is going given the fact that we're dealing with false personas and ego death. Cloud very obviously was unable to do this which makes him a 'black brother' who can be influenced or become possessed. This should only apply to the Cloud that has exited the singularity. But I am not sure what to make of the Cloud that remains unconscious or anything else going on in that timeline. That said, I don't believe that Zack is dead. I believe that Zack survived due to there being fewer troops at Remake's version of his last stand. The reason we have fewer troops is due to the casualties sustained from the Special Survey Units as detailed in "Picturing the Past". These also resulted in Sephiroth Clones being produced 10 years prior to the Nibelheim incident. The defeat of the harbinger prevented the whispers from making the correction to make sure Cloud arrives in the sector 7 slums with the Buster Sword. This us where I think we get our timeline slpit. The thing is that I can't wrap my head around having two Clouds and two buster swords. One thing that comes to mind is that there is only one other character in which cloning the individual also clones his sword. Cloning in some form happens to both S and G type SOLDIERS with Cloud and Zack being the only known exceptions to the rule. For now anyway...underground

This is my favorite video by far. I will have to listen to this multiple times.

Thanks for the Games Com stream, appreciate the content hammer.

Finally got round to watching this vid, I love this topic! Although I don't necessarily think that "who is in control" is the right question to ask, as it's a little more complicated than that. A lot of people quote the Ultimania, and say "Sephiroth is in control because the book says so". However, that Ultimania in question actually says a lot of interesting things! Here are a few quotes from the 2005 Ultimania (translated by TurquoiseHammer): "Sephiroth: A former hero who became the planet’s enemy... Five years ago, he learned the secret behind his birth and underwent a sudden change. Behaving as if he were Jenova herself, he enacts a brutal plan to seize the planet’s life and eradicate humanity." "Sephiroth has an awakening after coming into contact with Jenova" "Sephiroth was a heroic figure, boasting unparalleled strength even for a SOLDIER 1st Class. However, after discovering the secret behind his birth in Nibelheim five years ago, he became Jenova herself, hell-bent on destruction." "The change of his first-person pronoun from ore to watashi is an unquestionable indicator of his transformation." "Distress: “Am I a human being”; “How did I come to be?”-these are the questions that sprang to Sephiroth’s mind in the Nibel Mako Reactor. These anxieties would eventually smother his heart and change him into something inhuman" "Personality: Although he acted cool and indifferent, he did possess a human side when he served as a SOLDIER. However, after becoming the embodiment of Jenova, it seems his personality as an individual faded away."

Jenova is certainly not the lady in the capsule. Because Sephiroth is part cetera like aerith. If in doubt look at the hair. Pretty much any cetera left has the same hair style in some way.

It’s my opinion that it’s both options. Both are in control. Jenova is conscious and is actively helping Sephiroth because they both pretty much have the same goal. They are working together. In a strange harmony.

Loved this video! Especially narrated by someone who sounds like they’re from Manchester like me 😁 Great work!

Interesting theories. I've always been more supportive of the third theory, with them sharing equal balance of power. However, I'm inclined that Sephiroth has a bit more of control over Jenova, _however,_ with his mental state being severely damaged because of him snapping and going crazy, he succumbs to "Jenova's primal instincts", which is to consume _all_ life in the Planet; hence the whole plan of summoning Meteor to gather enough energy from the Lifestream to be absorbed, which will essentially _kill_ the Planet. Jenova is more of a parasite, in my eyes, kinda like John Carpenter's The Thing; it doesn't really have a mind, and acts more like a Force of Nature villain. I like your theory of "Jenova's body" being one of the Cetra. It is never stated anywhere what kind of parasite Jenova is. If it can "take over" bodies and control its other cells as the "main one" or if all of its cells work independently for the same goal. I really hope they answer these questions in the next episodes of Remake.

The final boss fight goes down like this: 1st Phase: Jenova's Giant Head with Sephiroths inactive body sitting on top 2nd Phase: Jenova turns into a cocoon/statue like form with Sephiroths Body now being active in the fight. 3rd phase: Sephiroth is Reborn with the Final Boss theme blaring. Which theme is it? One Winged Angel. What's the lyrics? SEPHIROTH. There shouldn't even be a theory that lasted this long when it was so obvious. I really want to emphasize the last boss theme is Sephiroths theme. That alone should answer everything. Sephiroth was also supposed to parallel the writers grief about his mother death. Instead of letting go and letting her rest in peace he digs her up and uses her.

At the start here, I think the questions should be when did Jenova fully take over, when did she start to lose control, and who is in control now? I view post Advent Sephiroth as having even less Jenova cells; he's lost two bodies.

My theory is that Jenova is Emperor Palpatine and Sephiroth is Darth Vader :) Good side of Sephiroth wants to escape Jenova influence and become Anakin again, bad side has his 'mother's" wish to rule the planet (or in our case multiverse) and travel cosmos, and never die.

I lean more towards theory #3 because since Jenova & Sephiroth's origins are very influenced by biblical christianity (Jenova being a play on Jehovah: aka God the Father, Sephiroth inspired by Jesus the Son of God) there are many places in the bible that refer to God & His Son as one: "I and my Father are one." - John 10:30 Also God in Christ (Jenova in Sephiroth): "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" - 2nd Corinthians 5:19. I personally think the writers will continue this trend & expand on it further going forward in FF7R & eventually give revelation that Jenova & Sephiroth are now one & the same.

I think Sephiroth has full control! He has an indomitable will! Jenova isn't strong enough to control someone like that. I think he just uses her power to fulfill her wishes because it's gives him purpose but he's not dominated by them

My headcanon is Jenova is the one in control. FF7 Remake is about Sephiroth trying to escape Jenova's control.

It's mostly Jenova, Sephiroth was very weakened when Cloud stabbed him, to much Jenova cells easily controls the old Sephiroth, still they have a very simular goal. Even with the Black materia it would mostly benefit Jenova at that point, my theory is when he was in Nibelhiem he was to close to Jenova making him much weaker to the aliens overall influence. Maybe if Sephiroth had the Holy materia instead of the Black materia he could've broke free more.

Most likely to me is that Sephiroth plans to cast off whatever Jenovas influence over him is, his goals of traveling the stars with the planet as a vessel is still there. But he's sort of outgrown Jenovas power and wants the power of the ancients that defeated her. So we'll think "oh seph wants to fight Jenova with us, but after we do, he still has his own ulterior motives.

If jenova is not the original body then the 3rd option is a normal human.

Jenova. Sephiroth spends the game in a catatonic state on life support due to half of his body being dissolved. He's used to "power" Jenova due to how powerful he is, and is used as Jenova's avatar. It's even in his name. Jenova fell from the heavens and Sephiroth (true to his namesake albeit in a corrupted sense) is the means in which Jenova attempts to resume its destruction of Gaia before moving on to another planet. Jenova used Sephiroth's hatred and mental state, and although the real Sephiroth is the final boss, he's still carrying out Jenova's will.

In the FFVII Ultimania Omega, launched in 2005, it was confirmed that it's Sephiroth that's in control. As for when in happened, it was in the Lifestream after Sephiroth's death in Nibelheim. Jenova tried to subjugate Sephiroth, but his Will was too strong and he overcome and dominate Jenova's Will instead, making it basically a part of him and an extension of himself. So, canocalically, the second possibility is the correct one.

It is explicitly stated by Hojo in the original game that sephiroth's will had overpowered jenova, which is why those with geostigma went to the crater where sephiroth was instead of shinra hq where jenova was.

Jenova is such a good manipulator that she doesn't need to do anything.

Okay for any fan wanting an answer to this question as of who is in control in the original ff7 Jenova or Sephiroth: Either play the game or watch a playthrough up to the part where Hojo is under Sephiroth's body (when Cloud hands over the black materia) And of course I recommend a good translation of the original Japanese to any other translation. Now Hojo as a character is not right all too often but in this scene we are not relying on his theories we have evidence. Now in this scene Hojo explains that he was expecting the clones to reunite towards Jenovas body in the Shinra building, but instead they are gathering to Sephiroths remains. Sephiroth is controlling the reunion, thus controlling Cloud, controlling the plan. Is he loyal to Jenova? absolutely. But in regards to who is in control, game answered it. The Ancients sealed Jenova away, at no point do they claim to have destroyed her completely. Now as to whether Jenova is dead, game and books also answered this. The only way to truly die , as in goodbye forever in the ff7 universe is to be absorbed completely by the Lifestream. In Lifestream black/white Sephiroth and Aeriths spirits are still indeed intact, they are present, watching , making commentary, and feeling their respective feelings towards those still on the surface. So when Sephiroth or Kadaj are talking to Jenova they are indeed talking to Jenova. In AC Jenova tells Kadaj she wants Sephiroth instead of him, thus telling him to play his part and die. Her spirit hasn't absorbed into the Lifestream because she is not a natural part of the cycle of this Planet. Sephiroth remains because he has her cells, Aerith remains because she can commune with the Planet.

I love your 4th (tin foil hat) theory, I think it really does make sense and works. In the OG FF7, people would say Seph is half monster because of Cloud’s attack. But he only stabbed him on the side, Seph was still walking right before his plunge into the life stream. New head cannon, but we’ll see where rebirth goes.

I bet the reason they brought Zack back is so Jenova can find a way to break him. If she breaks him, she will have a much stronger willed host and one that can easily conflict cloud enough to defeat him.

I honestly thought I was already subbed!? I dunno if my memory is terrible (which it is) but I swear I've noticed RU-vid has fucked with some of my subscription's over the last year or two.. Either way, take my sub on your way to 1000! I dunno where I land on this. I think it's a joint effort/pairing between the two. At least in the original they seem to both use each other when it suits them.... Then with remake, I should say that theories I've seen where Sephiroth can be redeemed, that is a BIG fuckin no-no in my book. Not that I think remake is gonna go that way...but you COULD make a case for it, which is why I guess people do do it. The whole ore and watashi thing does throw me off, which I guess was the devs intended effect on that front. The only way I accept Sephiroth not being the ultimate evil at the end is if they somehow build hojo up to be the end bad guy. He's the progenitor of almost everything wrong here but even that seems weak, unless they really somehow nail it. I'm like alot of people, I just..don't know yet. But I'm 100 percent on board with where it seems to be going and the remake project. My line in the sand is...just leave as much as V tuber hojo out of the game. I....accept that crisis core is gonna be needed moving foward. But that's about the limit of my acceptance for compilation stuff. Then again, if following games is quality like the first (even moreso with the upgraded hardware) then I'm happy. The only thing that still scares me when I think about it, is I've never really enjoyed this team's games (about the devs.) No I don't hate nomura or any of that I just look at what is very much the 13 team and go "please...don't fuck this up" But. So far, so good. Really good in fact so I'm happy. Good luck in the channel dude! (Swear I was subbed tho, weird.)

The wisest man in this community

I’ve always thought about this since the original. My though that sephiroth is actually just dead, and the alien Jenova has assumed sephiroth’s id like he stole his drivers license and shit

Theories in stories with no solid answers require intention as a backbone. The question isn't if Jenova was controlling Sephiroth, the question is "Why would she?" 1) Sephiroth was trapped in a crystal in the Northern Crater the entire time. Did she require him as a wi-fi connection? But she already had control over anyone with her cells, right? He's superfluous to this then. 2) The entire plan was to cause meteor to gather energy at the crater to restore and empower Sephiroth's body. Why would she enhance someone else and not her own body? She spends the entire story throwing her parts at Cloud & Company like they were disposable. Is there a way to confirm she intended to just use Sephiroth's body? 3) And if she was entirely in control, then what explains her obsession with Cloud? At what point did she ever have beef with him? This would confirm that Sephiroth's personal grudge with Cloud is involved, meaning she's not really in control. At least not entirely.

Jenova has one line of spoken dialogue in the original FF7, so I lean towards her being intelligent and at the very least working with Sephiroth rather than being controlled.

I think it’s 1 in the OG, and 2 in the remake. As you stated: post AC, Jenova (not Sephiroth) is at HER weakest which lest Seph exert his will through cloud’s memories. He gets stronger as Cloud’s rage grows and at his point of emergence he has to step into the singularity to possibly shield himself from a more powerful Jenova. I think he will have his own villainous will that may seem more like a nihilistic grey moralism, but I believe OG Seph was a puppet. Bonuse thought: now that Zack is back, I think he will come under Jenova control as well. Good job! I think it’s a meld of all of these possibilities. Even if there can be only 1 “right answer”, I think it will touch on many of these points.

A month late. Ill say this. Jenova in someways must be the final enemy. If jenova isnt destroyed and purged from the lifestream, her cells will remain. Seph will keep coming back and nothing will get resolved. They must end her and even if cloud becomes a normal human then so be it. Gaia's enemies are gone, the human race no longer a threat. Etc. A true happy ending.

these are things i wondered about sense....the orginal....it remindds me of lavos...

I once made an over 40 minute video on that. The answer is in the game.

i think sephiroth is heavily influenced by jenova, and his actions and downfall are sped up by jenova. however, i think the willpower of sephiroth makes it not one sided. the way i interpret the story is over the 5-6 years that sephiroth is frozen in the north crater, he is slowly gaining more and more influence over J cells and it no longer becomes J influencing S, but a mix. by the time cloud hands over the black materia, i think sephiroth has won and is now the one in charge fully.

Short term: Jenova. Long Term: second reincarnation Sephrioth. Who went through the life stream and knows future and past memories. There is multiple Sephrioths. I don't think all of them have control or knowing. I think the ones who went to alternate timelines and aware of them. Are however. Jenova is like Omega, Chaos Or Minerva. They are all similar. Maybe Guardians and destroyers of planets. Etc damn what if the body of Jenova is corrupted Minerva who degraded. White hair and body and horror is from degradation.

I think that jenova female body is either Lucria or Iflana I think because of the hairstyle.

I think Jenova has to have intelligence as opposed to just being a reactive animal with impressive powers, just by sheer virtue of the fact that it talks, albeit once (and miss spelled :p) I’m pretty sure you are right on the money with the weakened emotional state being something it uses, ala Judy from Twin Peaks the Return (which seems to be what they are going for) + Why it would appear to the Cetra as their dead relatives. Also that seems like something a being with conscious intelligence would do and less like that of a base life form displaying a survival instinct. I think for sure Sephiroth is the big bad, but what ever combination of all these possibilities it ends up being, I don’t think Jenova’s own will and consciousness are to be totally discounted.

I was watching the hologram in the temple and the last form jenova took was the form of the goddess in the war of humans vs centras it was in interesting detail looks from the loveless play the angel 🤔 maybe that’s why she looks that way in the tube So many theories 🙌😂👍

Sephiroth. The devs have made that clear idk how many times now. From the span of 1997 to now in 2022. It's always been pretty clear that Sephiroth was taking charge. Especially in OG ff7 where the final boss isn't Jenova. It's Sephiroth himself.

Full stop 🛑 being a final boss has nothing to do with who is in control. Injected at birth Sephiroth weather he thinks it or not he is basically Jenova. There's no way baby Sephiroth stopped the cells from completely taking over him before adulthood. He's basically Jenova

2 and 3 are indeed the better ones, but you forgot chrono trigger, because it has almost has the same lifeform as Jenova and it is Lavos, Because they both are alien's and they both travel world to world to destroy those worlds, so it sounds like Jenova has the same lifecycle has Lavos, because he basically does the same thing, but differently... Jenova spreads Viruses, Lavos produces offspring, but still ….we don't know I like the idea that of 1. But I think It was both 1 and 3 in the PS1FF7, Jenova was active when Seph was in slumber, then Cloud gives Seph the black Materia after that both Jenova and Seph started to become one. When that was going on, in a weird way they entered the cocoon stage, Jenova must of send the other parts of her or it to protect the cocoon, so 3 could happen Seph becomes the New Jenova with his and (her's or it's) memories. it's up to you but that's what I think any way.

🙄 Who cares what you like. The first theory is the one that makes the most sense. Once you see the story from the first theories perspective then the whole story makes much more sense.

My opinion Jenova was mostly in charge until the end of OG FF7, the Remake feels like the end of OG FF7 Sephiroth that has lived throughout the entire compilation and returned to early events to FF7. Even Aerith says everything about you is wrong... so the major change is who is in the driver seat of Sephiroths clone bodies.

In the original Jenova was in the remake I feel it’s all Sephiroth

I personally don't believe Jenova is in control, because the story itself never wanted to make Sephiroth unrelated to his responsibilities. That's why I like the remake retelling, because the devs try to tell us that sephiroth and jenova are on par with their goals, anyone else would be doing a lot of stupid things for her mind control. Sephiroth calls himself "son of jenova" inside the temple of the ancients and for me it is clear that they are both united in their objective. Sephiroth is responsible for everything, for the choices and deaths that occur after Nibelheim, he wants to become a God and Jenova wants to destroy the world, this is all perfectly reconcilable.Safer Sephiroth could exist with jenova with no problem. People thinking he will die and jenova will fuck with him is hilarious LOL.

I played crisis core cloud doesn't have jenvoa cell s he has sephoroh cell Zack has both hojo injected jenvoa cell s into the womb of lucercia after sepheroth was born hojo took sephoroh away from her to keep experimenting on him and when Zack and sephoroh and cloud and another grunt got to cloud home town sephoroh lost it in the Shinra mansion basement reading the document s and seeing the pods it made him think that jenvoa was his mother which she isn't because hojo and his experimenting on his son and the ones that you see with numbers are also hojo experiments I played every final fantasy 7 game there is the first one I played before Crisis core

This debate is actually pretty pointless. It's both. Effectively, Sephiroth and Jenova are the same being.

Unpopular opinion: it’s always been Jenova, but the final boss fight at the end of Part 3 will feature sephiroth-somehow fully rid of Jenova’s influence--joining the team to finally rid of the planet of his corruptor.