Been waiting for this! You gotta consider other character matchups other than slyvanos and what about tournament results, when it comes to making a full on tier list. Like I feel like slyv is way more balanced then clarien.
Yeah he's gotta consider matchups for sure; he's looking at everything from a Sly point of view. Elly and Etalus dont care if Absa and Pom air camp, becuz of the accuracy of the guided missiles and all the space that icicles cover; + if they air camp like that they are letting them set down ice and sticky mine/steam everywhere for free!
i love that the oly section was just a rant 💀. I love how even the playing field in this game feels. I can play anyone in this game and feel like theres so much more to learn
I do think shovel knight is a bit more underrated, his jab and nair are surprisingly disjointed and could even challenge clairen's range on multiple accounts of my own. also being that horn is his cheapest item it is surprisingly versatile as a callout tool. and finally I do think it is a bit bs that shovel knight can simply pogo all projectiles thrown at him and challenge an approach after that with a quick nair.
That stuff you mentioned about how Pomme doesn't really have to interact and choose not to play the game in the upward corners off stage, ya cant parry in the air, so my Etalus is free to spam the icicles to connect into his fair, if a Pomme is playing against me like that they are practically begging me to set them up for early kills- pomme realizes she cant play that way against Etalus she has to get down and box with me and ive covered everything in ice by that point. The same thing for Absa and her bouncing off her clouds really too. Matchups are important! Etalus may over all be lower on the list, but characters like that cant really air camp him because icicles. Infact, the sheer amount of control you have over the guided missiles and steam you can blow at opponents and all the mixups, Elly is even better at stomping these two if they try air camping tactics and they just let me set my mine down for free.. i know you play Sly, so you looking at a lot of these match ups from a Sly point of view. Ya really didnt go over Elly's sticky mine buff, how versatile the angles on it are now. She can not only kick it up, she can choose to double kick it or not and hit it with quick aerials or delayed aerials for all sorts of surprising angles and we both know once the mines stick that's 💀 over for the opponent up against Elly Over all great tier list though my dude 👍
Great video. 🎉 One thing inwould like to hear is the general outline of why you would section off tiers. Like what is the general thing that puts Olympia in S and not S+. Whats the criteria
Basically it was a combination of the criteria from my last list (risk + limits) with the idea of the ease and effectiveness of their gameplan. Then sectioned them by who has the most effective kit, so the higher up the more "effective" their gameplan is essentially.
I only play casually but I play olympia and holy crap she's so broken LOL I can do whatever I want cuz I have falco laser, focus punch, giga nair giga up air giga up b giga fair giga fsmash I can eat so much glue and get away with it
I still think olympia's bad MU against clairen, zetter, slyvanos and wrastor and her god awful and extremely predictable recovery (you can sliding parry her upb when shes hugging the wall) holds her back a lot which is why the only olympia with good results are MSB and Seggo (msb had to switch off olympia for kragg for a lot of her bad MUs). shes strong dont get me wrong but I think compared to the top 5 shes still too weak to compete. S tier on stage B tier offstage.
That hodan placement bro... This is a genuine question, have you seen top level of some of these characters or is this a sort of impressions based tier list
this tierlist feels like it doesn't really take tournament results into account very much. So basically provable performance versus theory crafting how good a character is at top level.
There are so many great workshop characters but they choose Mollo and Olympia then made them more dumb. Also Hodan is not really a water character another water character would be nice. Could use slime, rain, snow/hail, or mud
idk I wouldn't say oly's above the others in S tier, but would put her above the other tiers, maybe it's just the matchups that make me feel that. Anyways I've been using my brain too much when playing oly, I'll spam more thanks
Olympia rly don't play. But I will say at the highest level u still have to use her tools efficiently just due to the game so even tho I think she's brain dead that doesn't mean I don't think she can still be cool and outsmart people like seggo
@@itsrottweiler9545 I really mean I overcomplicate some things in my approach sometimes, hearing your rant does make me want to give dash attack more of a chance instead of doing wavedash babydash jab or whatever I'm trying. Against player with good neutral sometimes nair feels hopeless tho, but I've always been bad at neutral so it'll take some work to figure that out
In time i think ill be able to see the limits of her character and hopefully can do a better deep dive olympia video these are just my current thoughts @ngakk
A lot of is valid but certain things are off for sure so I'll point them out. 1.Orcane is definitely better than you think. Most pros rate him incredibly highly due to his mix of easy to access kill power and comboes as well as his decent neutral. Orcane is almost always a character where no matter what patch you play on he's one of the better characters if not the outright best one. 2.Mollo should be higher than Pomme as from what ik he's gotten more tournament results than her. Plus Pomme has gotten nerfed over and over again so she's fallen quite a bit from grace since when she was first introduced and when she was first getting results. 3.Kragg may seem like the worst just cause he's a heavy weight but the thing is he fixed all the problems with heavy weights. His buttons are faster than most heavies and he doesn't share the same problems most heavies have where despite them having high damage they don't have good combo options meaning that damage is usually from neutral wins. Kragg has good comboes meaning he's one of the few heavies ever made that actually does high amounts of damage in practice instead of on paper like most others. His recovery is also good meaning he solves the surviviability issue most heavies face which lets him live long and his rock also gives him really good options to throw out in neutral and for edge guarding as you said. Because of all of this he's actually extremely common in tournaments and has many top reps like MSB and CheesyPotatoes and it's also worth noting that due to his simplicity he's also not that uncommon as a secondary. Given his results I think he should be higher. 4.Absa should be even higher and most do place them higher due to how well Penguin places with them consistently. 5.Zetterburn should be higher than Forsburn given how many more top reps he has than him and the fact that the only extremely successful Forsburn in CakeAssault has even said that sometimes he feels he wins in spite of his character choice and not because of him. 6.Ranno is pretty good and consistent and he should also ideally be higher. 7.Clairen's down B itself invalidates the neutral of many characters and their range is also absolutely incredible. They're one of the most consistent characters out there and frequently place well in tournaments. They should be higher than A+.
