No video :(

Finally, a cheap C16 / +4 / C116 PLA replacement! (That anyone can make at home)

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Daniël Mantione to the rescue again! He created a new PLA replacement, this time for the 264/TED machines: the Commodore 116, 16 and Plus4. This GAL-PLA is just as easy to make as the first
--- Video Links
More information about the TED/264 PLA:
www.freepascal...
You can buy one here:
www.sellmyretr...
Make your own PCBs at PCBWay:
www.pcbway.com...
C16 on the fly PAL/NTSC switching:
• NTSC or PAL? One C16 t...
C64 GAL PLA:
• Can you replace your C...
TL866 Plus MiniPro EPROM programmer: (to program GAL chips)
amzn.to/3urrBh8 (or search eBay/AliExpress for TL866 Plus)
Trailblazer (Game I was playing at the end of the video)
thekingofgrabs...
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools....
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.co...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/i...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.co...
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/i...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfrei...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/i...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/i...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/mis...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorec...
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino

Опубликовано:

19 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 234

@_..--- 3 года назад

I love how these amazing machines are still supported by the community.

@JustWasted3HoursHere 3 года назад

Yep. Commodore, long gone. Community? Still going strong.

@Walczyk 3 года назад

they aren't amazing they're shitty and cheap. what is amazing is the community supporting them.

@kreeger2010 3 года назад

I've wanted to get a c64 for 15 years ever since Katrina destroyed my childhood machine I'm glad to see your videos about all of the commodore machines

@VincentGroenewold 3 года назад

Awesome! My first computer was a C-16, given by my grandpa. Still have it and recently recapped it (by someone who knows his stuff). :) This is great to keep it going.

@starfleet-verdadero9808 3 года назад

It was also my first computer. I learned to program thanks to that computer, I even learned some assembly language with the MONITOR command ... How nostalgic.

@VincentGroenewold 3 года назад

@@starfleet-verdadero9808 Indeed, pitty kids don't learn it like that anymore. It really gave me insight into the basics (pun intended). Still applies today as well. Though I went on to become a biology scientist, I recently quit and am returning to programming. :)

@Wielblad95 3 года назад

I never lived in era when those machines were the thing and neither am working or educated in anything tech involved, but thanks to this kind of videos I gained so much more understanding of how they work this is amazing. Thank you for all your work! On those videos I was always impressed how much love those machines gets. Also how much time will pass when we will be able to build all new parts C64 or different computer? I guess it is all down to if anybody will manage to recreate all the chips as FPGA? It will be interesting anyway.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Well... it is really rewarding that these computers do not just serve nostalgia, but also are of value to people who haven't used them. I understand the reason: Modern computers are of disgusting complexity, in order to understand computers you have to get something simpler. Nevertheless, it sure is a motivator dig up all the rusted knowledge from the golden years and get into Commodore computers again. These computers are old, they won't come back outside our community. But we, the children of Commodore, are also skilled computer experts. We have knowledge to share.

@stefanocrespi5424 3 года назад

Actually there is a guy that re the 7501/8501 cpu as fpga. It supports even the illegal opcodes!

@rfmerrill 3 года назад

Drug dealer trick for opening small ziploc bags: hold the seal with your thumb and forefinger and "rub" it sideways back and forth. It should pop open at the sides and then you can pull it all the way open.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

Hahaha!! Well thank you :-)

@Vermilicious 3 года назад

Kudos to him for finding and creating these solutions.

@twocvbloke 3 года назад

It still amazes me as to how much work people put into things like this, and then put it all out on the internet for all to see and make themselves, very impressive stuff... :)

@bobblum5973 3 года назад

On the one hand, I've just watched an 18 minute 39 seconds long infomercial for Daniel's products. On the other hand, I've just watched an _interesting_ 18 minute 39 seconds long infomercial for Daniel's products! I don't even have a Commodore computer to need this stuff for, yet I'm glad to see them being kept working. Thanks, Adrian, and Daniel too!

@vgaglory4555 3 года назад

C16 was my first home computer. Brings back memories of spending Christmas Day and most of boxing Day trying to get my first game to load from tape. Xzap the game that sent me on a life long journey😁

@StuartCowan 3 года назад

Same here, Christmas 1984 was awesome!!!

@vgaglory4555 3 года назад

@@StuartCowan I remember my naïve little 8 year old self yelling excitedly at my dad to type the answer YES at the C16 READY prompt :)

@starfleet-verdadero9808 3 года назад

It was also my first computer. I learned to program thanks to that computer, I even learned some assembly language with the MONITOR command ... How nostalgic.

@StuartCowan 3 года назад

@@starfleet-verdadero9808 That's cool, yeah, the built in monitor was awesome and the ability to change game code on the fly was really awesome!

@undefinednan7096 3 года назад

Although the GAL16V8 isn't manufactured anymore, there are several manufacturers making compatible parts -- for example, Microchip/Atmel's ATF16V8 is still manufactured and should be for a while (they usually give a few years notice).

@basvanharen2904 3 года назад

Thats stuff we like to see (I think😅) got a broken 116 so love to see more replacement stuff. Thumbs up👍🏻and thank you Daniel!

@Crashedfiesta 3 года назад

Awesome! The PLA died in my Plus/4 just over a week ago.

@Crashedfiesta 3 года назад

@Mr Guru Dangnabbit. Useful for diagnostics though so I shall look to get one anyway. :)

@danielmantione 3 года назад

@@Crashedfiesta Just skip the socket and it will fit perfectly in a Plus/4.

@charlesjmouse 3 года назад

Very nice indeed! Props to your good self for the demonstration and Daniel Mantione for his excellent and generous support. A suggestion: This is absolutely not a nit-pick and is obviously not remotely necessary. If I ever need one of his PLA replacements I'd be tempted to spin my own PCB layout from Daniël's design such that the GAL is on the underside of the PCB. In combination with either cutting out the middle of the PLA socket or replacing with pin-strip headers you'd have a marginally neater solution... ...or just use Daniël's PCB and carefully bend the GAL's legs through 180deg after programming.

@VenomStryker 3 года назад

I can't wait to see the first C64 to have ALL of the original chips replaced with homebrew PCB's. lol.

@marcelofrau8818 3 года назад

Hey Adrian, your videos are awesome, love to see all of them.. You know, after seeing you having such a awesome basement full of cool stuff and doing all those repairs, made me want to start learning more about electronics and now I have repaired some old consoles and that felt great... Thank you for giving this great incentive and giving the opportunity to know more about electronics. Thanks for your great content! keep up the good work..

@darthbukowski6894 3 года назад

Adrian, I really enjoy your videos. I worked in the electronics field until I was medically retired in 2012, I miss it.

@troutsoup 3 года назад

this kind of stuff is amazing for preservation!

@johnsonlam 3 года назад

Another great video of saving retro-computer by replacing with new design parts.

@jengelenm 3 года назад

Great stuff for my C16 and plus4! I believe you did a review on that FPGA replacement, but it was like 100 euro or more. Thanks for the video!

@BigDaddy_MRI 3 года назад

Another outstanding video!! Great job, Adrian!!

@BG101UK 3 года назад

Excellent video thanks! Great to see these projects helping to keep our classic machines going. Scarcity of parts is something which has always concerned me..

@C64Lover 3 года назад

I've succesfully repaired many 16/116/+4 using ROM based PLA replacement.

@rdxdt 3 года назад

Opensource software and hardware? That’s awesome, big thanks to the author of this project.

@mikeuk666 3 года назад

keep up the great work Adrian 🕹 ♥

@Shamino0 3 года назад

I agree it is far easier to solder pin headers if they are stuck into something. I like to use a small breadboard for this purpose, since it will be much larger than a board of this size and therefore easier to handle if you don't have small hands.

@annieworroll4373 10 месяцев назад

Just got my Plus/4 up and running.

@StuartCowan 3 года назад

Christmas 1984 was a Commodore Christmas in our house! Happy days!

@bitoxic 3 года назад

Another fantastic video! Commodore all the way! 😁👍

@bryan2garcia 3 года назад

The game at the end reminds me a lot of SKYROADS the 1993 DOS Game

@stefanocrespi5424 3 года назад

Yeah! It is called Trailblazer and it was originally programmed on a stock c16 then ported to c64

@eddielegs344 3 года назад

I think it's great that more and more solutions are being found for these kinds of problems. there is even someone who is now working on a VIC chip replacement for the commodore 64 it already works, soon that will be available as well. get better and better :) is even better you don't need them but can happen to all of us, Daniël Mantione is also a Dutchman just like me, just a lot smarter haha

@frazzleface753 3 года назад

I remember a friend had a C16, probably about 1984 or so. It was likely the first computer I used, and I was enthralled even though it is very basic indeed. 😊

@Berend70 3 года назад

Once again great job of fellow dutchman Daniël. I hope he can make a open source replacement of the 8501 and/or TED chip.. keep up the great work... nice to have a full video of making this Adrian!

@erinwiebe7026 3 года назад

Love projects like this. :)

@kwanchan6745 3 года назад

nice one Daniël

@DiskWizard001 3 года назад

Here in Russia we call it "tsanga" - the collet connector as Your favorite IC socket type. And we DO think quite positively of that type of connector.

@PMCRetroGamer 3 года назад

Hi. Good video as per normal. Thanks for brightening my saturday

@FuckMargaretThatchher 3 года назад

I hope your not suffering like the 8 Bit Guy from the awful weather conditions, much support from germany!

@alunroberts1439 3 года назад

I had a plus 4 only for a short time as it was robbed. I did buy one from teacher at my school it shut down after 10 to 20 minutes took it back this was last day of school he says see me after 1/2 term I was left not happy. I did not know so much did go in to them. Would like to build one or get hold of one. I did do ram packs for the ZX81 were you had 2 backs of ram part my own work some from the old ETI magazine the ram was stacked with pin lifted to logic switching this was back in 1989 miss playing about. I jumped in to TV servicing there we had to make small PCB to replace frame IC's that were no longer made. But that was easy this stuff look like it will make my head hurt. Good work I keep coming back.

@iamdarkyoshi 3 года назад

Not sure why, but all three of my PLAs work completely fine in my C64s. I love seeing that people are keeping these delightful old beasts running though!

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

It's luck although if you have the original Signetics chip, those are super reliable. It's the Commodore made versions that is very unreliable.

@pintokitkat 3 года назад

Hurrah! A 'let's get right to it' without the dreadful 'without further ado'.

@jonathancombe9991 3 года назад

Nice video Adrian. The Plus/4 was my first computer so good to see they can be kept going.

@cheater00 3 года назад

Now we need a competent sid replacement that isn't digital

@undefinednan7096 3 года назад

That's a hard problem -- there are die shots in enough detail that it should be possible to recreate either the 6581 or the 8580, but actually doing that would be a lot of work, and then getting them fabricated would take a lot of money. Someone (not me, I don't have the time) should crowdfund an attempt to do this.

@cheater00 3 года назад

@@undefinednan7096 I'm all too certain the digital part can be done in fpga and the analog in smd

@undefinednan7096 3 года назад

@@cheater00 fair enough, I thought that you actually wanted a custom IC, which could be cheaper __if there was enough volume__ (massive if there). I'm not sure how much analog circuitry the SID contained, but I know that it had at least analog filtering. The feasibility of doing it "to scale" (i.e. to fit in the same space as the original) would depend heavily on the amount and also on how small of packages one would be willing/able to use (for example, an 01005 is 400um x 200um, but using packages that small greatly increases assembly prices for low volume products). Conversely, if one doesn't care about the size, it can definitely be done once the SID's circuitry is fully reverse engineered to the schematic level (I don't know if this has been done). Assuming the SID's analog circuitry was designed properly (a big assumption), then it shouldn't be too hard to replicate its results (famous last words)

@kissingfrogs 3 года назад

ice storm snippet footage. i would watch that. Great video as always.

@rfmerrill 3 года назад

For the Berg (later Dupont and now Amphenol) Mini-PV connectors you mention--the official recommended crimping tool is very expensive new, but they've been making it for so long you can find really old ones much cheaper on eBay. Using a more specialized crimping tool makes a big difference in how strong the resulting connection is.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

These were premade cables and I assume those are garbage not the real non clone connectors. I should look for a crimper maybe it can revive these cheap cables

@rfmerrill 3 года назад

@@adriansdigitalbasement we use the molex SL series connectors a lot at work, and the SL female connectors are compatible with the typical berg square pin headers. (The reverse is not quite true, a male SL crimp won't really go into a header socket or breadboard). The SL crimping tool we use is around $300-400 new I think which is much cheaper than the Berg crimper (over $1000 new, but can be as low as like $100 used)

@williamsquires3070 3 года назад

While watching the game demo screen, did anyone else feel the irrational need to jump every time a gap appeared on the play field? 😋

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

Haha. That game is quite hard too!

@adrianmillard6598 3 года назад

You sung a lot of praises for the guy who came up with the mod/chips and said where to buy them. I think because of this you should say whether or not the video is sponsored - even if it isn't. (Also, for the record, I have no problem if it is)

@stephanemignot100 3 года назад

18 minutes? Heresy! ^

@Dukefazon 3 года назад

the so called "mini" videos are 3x longer :D

@jeffnorris5735 3 года назад

I just love watching your videos!

@SidebandSamurai 3 года назад

Hi Adrian, Another great video, if you want to link other videos you have produced or other videos others have produced you can use the youtube cards, which will place a notice in the upper right hand corner when you want to reference other videos. You can also keep placing them in your description as its a handy place to go to.

@raypalmer7733 3 года назад

While the PAL16V8 may not be produced any more, the ATV16V8 (which is the same functionally as the PAL variant) is available from mouser. au.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=ATF16V8B&bws=1 The ATF16V8 is re-programmable so if a mistake is made you can program it again.

@jeroensmaal 3 года назад

Exactly, ATFs are cheap and easily obtainable replacements for GALs (including other types like 22V10) and can also be programmed by the TL866 (-II) programmer.

@elmariachi5133 3 года назад

Now the 264s are completely repairable - well, nearly. Only the "ThED" TED replacement needs to be completed :) Well, of course it would also be better to have a new CPU, instead of replacing the 8501 by an 6510, and maybe even replacing the 6510 by an 6502 xD

@MandrakeFernflower 3 года назад

ATF16V8 is the chip used in the replacement One of the logic gates is done outside the gate array in diode logic (Fran would be proud!)

@danielmantione 3 года назад

You can choose: ATF16V8, GAL16V8 and even PALCE16V8H work flawlessly.

@francoisleveille409 3 года назад

Mistake number 1: Double leaf sockets are a million times better than 'nice looking' machined pins sockets Mistake number 2: Yes, there are chips compatible with GAL18V8 which are still being made and sold, just look for ATF16V8 and they will do just as good a job but consume only a small fraction of the power.

@tj71520 3 года назад

I have a c16 and a c116, however I havent used them in decades so Im hoping they will work when I get a chance to test them again later this year

@jengelenm 3 года назад

Check your PSU thoroughly before you fire up! Or possibly fry up😀

@beanboy5315 3 года назад

You remind me of peppermint patti. Great job, appreciate it.

@CommodoreFan64 3 года назад

Very awesome!!!

@jaycee1980 3 года назад

I notice a lot of these things are built with NOS Lattice GAL chips. I wonder if the designers are aware that Microchip still make 16V8 and 22V10 compatible programmable logic chips, brand new. I've used one for an "Unrainer" replacement for the PAL chip in my Spectrum +2, programmed it with my TL866II Plus

@JensChristianRestemeier 3 года назад

GAL 16V8 and 22V10 are still available new from Microchip from places like Digikey. They are sold as ATF16V8 and ATF22V10. I found the only problem is some programmers enable the power save mode of the 22V10, which means the chip freezes when pin 4 goes high.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

The ATF22V10 is a bit problematic indeed, also because the first version of the TL866 doesn't support it and it also is only available in fast speeds. The ATF16V8 is just as usable as the GAL16V8, I bought some. Nevertheless, don't worry too much about the fact that they are out of production, a lot of these chips were made and stocks on the secondary market are bulging. It is absoltely no problem to buy them new-old-stock or used and this will be the case for a long time to come.

@JensChristianRestemeier 3 года назад

@@danielmantione The problem is that the atf22v10 has a completely different (and undocumented) programming algorithm to other GAL types... there is an open source schematic for a programmer (search for "atfblast"), but it attaches to the parallel port which is another inconvenience nowadays...

@Eon119 3 года назад

Those sockets at 8:55 are really poor. My Amiga 500 had some of those fitted and always crashed when I moved it. I was lucky enough at the time to get access to a professional de-soldering tool. I removed them all and just soldered the chips back in. It never crashed again when it was moved. The round hole ones are much better. Those were the only type my company used.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Your Amiga came with single-wipe sockets. The one in the video is a dual-wipe socket. You can fight religious wars which is more reliable, but both the dual-wipe spring leaf socket and the round-hole socket are way more reliable than the sockets used by Commodore.

@Colaholiker 3 года назад

Those programmers do work with Linux. I have installed the original software using Wine and have been using it numerous times to program the built-in flash memory of AVR microcontrollers. I have also read EPROMS with it (to get backup copies). I never tried programming EPROMS in Linux, but if the software communicates with the programmer, why should this particular function not work... ;-)

@DemetryRomanowski 3 года назад

You don't even need wine, there are many open source versions of the minipro software on github, just compile and run.

@Colaholiker 3 года назад

@@DemetryRomanowski Thanks, I need to look out for those. My workbench PC is a bit underpowered, so something that runs natively is most likely going to run less slow than something that needs Wine.

@fu1r4 3 года назад

I saw when you bridged the pins at 8:41 even if you fast forwarded the video ... :)

3 года назад

C16 is my first love! fire starter!

3 года назад

Adrian, I have almost 8 game cartridges (plus4) and all working. all are same. is there any chance to modify any of it and create that diagnostic tool? I can send those cartridges to you? I don't know if those cartridges are helpful ? I'm not a hardware guy :)

@MrFireSpy 3 года назад

I'd love to get hold of a plus 4, had one when I was young and really wish I'd kept it..

@AdmiralHorror 3 года назад

I feel like those PLA replacements (C64 version) should be integrated into modern C64 replacement motherboards (like 64 Reloaded and such)

@AdmiralHorror 3 года назад

@Mr Guru You are right, I was thinking of CIAs.

@philsbbs 3 года назад

great video.

@jondough76 3 года назад

Adrian must not be into drugs if he has trouble opening small baggies..

@bwgti 3 года назад

Where do you think he learned what a pain they are? Ha ha. Great video. Very concise and clear explanation of a subject I barely understand.

@kittopersonal744 3 года назад

woah watch what you say bruh

@jondough76 3 года назад

@@kittopersonal744 I suppose you don't understand humor. And I am certainly not your 'bruh'.

@kittopersonal744 3 года назад

@@jondough76 if so then how would i know that bruh is basically a meme?

@angrydove4067 3 года назад

Awww, too short!

@ZTK-RC 3 года назад

based on the stickers on your cabinet, I wonder how many conferences we have both been at and I didn't realize you were there (LinuxCon/PyCons/KubeCon/Defcons/etc)

@mrnmrn1 3 года назад

Adrian, are you interested in a PAL C16 that is under the open sky since about 2010? It was already not working, and had a blown fuse. There might be zero usable parts left inside, but it would be a nice trip to try make it working again. I may try to ressurect it, but I won't go any further than doing this PLA mod, if the PLA is suspect in it. If I fail, I may send it to you if you are interested. I might not even try to repair it, just send directly to you as-is, because I have no C16 parts, you have plenty, and I won't invest too much into it because of its condition. I guess the keyboard is gone after that many years in the weather (the springs surely turned into solid rust), but the keycaps were looking OK last time I saw it. Though I can't promise I'll send it to you until I know the shipping costs - I'm in Hungary :-) .

@francoisleveille409 3 года назад

There was another very cheap PLA replacement for these machines and it was the M27C512-90B6 from ST but Groepaz did everything he could to discredit it with a ton of falsehoods. Nowadays, if you look on eBay or anywhere else looking for that part number, all you'll get is Chinese fakes...

@KonjonoAwesome 3 года назад

You can still get new 16v8s from Atmel / Microchip.

@danielson9579 3 года назад

I like your monitor 🙂

@LeftoverBeefcake 3 года назад

Amiga on the Lake sells a 6502 CPU replacement for the TED-based machines... hope you'll review one of those in the future as I'd like to see your thoughts on it before getting one for one of my own sick Plus/4.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

I have an upcoming video on another such solution -- one you can make yourself. Keep your eyes peeled.

@YesterGearPCii 3 года назад

I noticed the solder bridge before he did. I was yelling at the screen lol..

@VAX1970 3 года назад

Damn Daniel

@DominicClifton 3 года назад

2:39 'fewer' scanlines. :D

@mancavehobbies6213 3 года назад

Yup my plus 4 has a black screen

@davidegalliussi1979 3 года назад

I wanted to know if it is possible to change the C=16 pal in ntsc but that it is compatible with the programs and games in the pal system. Can the s-video output be improved like C=64? Beautiful video, the C=16 was my first computer and as a child I enjoyed writing basic graphics and sound programs, also had to write on sheets to print and save on tape. And I like this games: Magicians Curse, Xargon Wars, Pacmania, Robin Rescue, Guzzler, Video Meanies, Survivors, Qix, Tutti Frutti, etc. I used the QuickShot with turbo fire

@CheshireNoir 3 года назад

I've been wondering if Western Design Center could / would make replacements for the 6510 and 8501 CPUs. They'd probably only need to do one run of each and they'd be able to supply the entire retro community for decades :-)

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Then sure can, but don't seem interrested in the retro community at all.

@herrbonk3635 3 года назад

3:37 _"Finding a cpu for this machine is very difficult"_ Does it use some kind of special version of the 6502, like the "6510" in the VIC-64? I actually though it used an ordinary 6502, much like the VIC-20 or PET.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

It's yet another variant of the 6502 but different than the 6510 CPU used in the C64.

@Somelucky 3 года назад

I feel that these 8bit/16bit machines had more personality than the IBM clones that followed.

@jasejj 3 года назад

Well the original PC had no character to begin with, it was little more than a cynical cash grab by IBM who had been caught out by the early micro manufacturers. Just a bunch of off-the-shelf components.

@HometownUnicorn 3 года назад

Just make sure if you get a power cut that you turn your water mains off, it's going to be few days . You don't want a house like some folk in Texas. Especially your cellar.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

My house is weatherized for cold weather like freeze proof external spigots and my water main and shutoff is in my basement, not outside. I always shut my water off if I'm away for more than a few days... Flooding is no joke.

@joegee2815 3 года назад

Do you have an emergency gen? I have a portable one that I can tie in via a transfer switch for key circuits. Heat, refirigerator, some lights and outlets... And I have a backup for that if necessary.

@DominiHarling 3 года назад

If it uses a GAL16V8, could it not also be able to use an Atmel ATF16V8B? I bought some of these from Digi-Key. I have a TL866II+ programmer and it supports both GAL and ATF. The reason I bring this up is while the GAL chips are discontinued, I think the Atmel variants are still being made.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Yes, the ATF16V8 works perfectly. You can also use PALCE16V8H. Discontinued is not a problem though, these chips are everywhere and there is way more supply than there are TED machines in existance.

@dsnein 3 года назад

Homebrew SID, when

@iamdarkyoshi 3 года назад

I just got some FPGASIDs. I'm quite impressed. Sadly analog circuitry is a real challenge to replicate. RIP both of my sid chips that lost a filter on the same day for some reason

@bobingabout 3 года назад

7:22 incorrect. PAL is the original chip, and the GAL is a replacement made by Lattice after discontinuing the original. The GAL offered a few extra features over the PAL, but BOTH were erasable and reprogramable. I've heard the false information before that a PAL can't be reprogrammed, but I know from experience that they can, as I've used plenty of recycled (salvaged from old equipment that was to be disposed of) PAL16V8 chips in my own projects.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

A PAL is one-time programmable, they use fuses and cannot be erased. Not to be confused with a PALCE, because a PALCE is AMD's naming for a GAL. A PALCE can be reprogrammed just like a GAL and, if you manually set the correct programming voltage you even can program it with a TL866 as a GAL168V8.

@bobingabout 3 года назад

@@danielmantione I'd have to dig out one of my chips to check, but, an AMD PAL16V8 sounds to be what I remember, could be a PALCE.

@tenminutetokyo2643 Год назад

Also replace that KOYO NTSC crystal with a new Citizen one. $.50 on Mouser.

@colday74 3 года назад

Adrian, the IC pin leg straightener.... where did you get it? Where can I get one? We see it used about 8.50. Also, with regard the Tl866, I have the later model which loses the ability to program the older EPROM as it cannot handle the higher voltage, however I have cobbled together a 2nd ZIF socket that plugs into the main one where you can use power from an external source (bench supply) therefore giving you the best of both worlds. Give me a shout if you want the schematics.

@adambaranek 3 года назад

This is the link from the video where he discussed it: www.amazon.com/JAMECO-BENCHPRO-Pin-Straightener-Tool/dp/B00B888W5S/ref=as_li_ss_tl Looks like it’s out of stock now, but you may be able to find it elsewhere.

@colday74 3 года назад

@@adambaranek Thanks! That's great! Also, did Adrian ever talk about that silver IC removal tool he uses? Really need one of those as well.

@adriansdigitalbasement 3 года назад

There is a link to that in the video description -- chip extractor

@billjohnson3344 3 года назад

You mentioned 15ns or 25ns GALs work. The kit seems to come with a GAL16V8B. At least from Lattice and other vendors, there are a lot of GAL revisions over the years (no-suffix, A, B, C, D also). Will any GAL16V8* work, or is there a specific reason to use only the 'B' revision?

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Any GAL will work. You are also in no way limited to 15 and 25ns. I haven't tested 10ns and 7ns myself, but unlike the C64 there is no critical timing in the 264 PLA, so I expect they will just work. The different revisions of the GAL are generally compatible. They are not compatible for programmers, may have sliight real-world timing differences and differ in their built-in pull-up resistors, but none of this should matter for the TED computers.

@gadgetman4494 3 года назад

cool.

@michailokeefeMooMoo 3 года назад

I have a problem with my c16 sometimes it word great then other day I have to switch it on fast it will come on . Any idea what the problem

@UberAlphaSirus 3 года назад

Very nice. It's a shame you can't setup a custom chip on them programers. I was going to edit a chip from the softwares librarys, but it's just one big file :(

@krnlg 3 года назад

It may be easier to do in the Linux tool (gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro) - although that is a command line tool so will have its own learning curve. By the looks of it there is an XML file defining the chips and there's even a comment in it saying add your own definitions. Certainly doesn't looks "simple" but perhaps more so than with the official Windows software. Definition file is at: gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro/-/blob/master/infoic.xml

@UberAlphaSirus 3 года назад

@@krnlg Ahh looks like I didn't look hard enough. the chip files are in the algorithm directory. They don't seem to be in any format that I can deduce. CSV,xls,xml, or a code. The infoic.xml you linked doesn't seem to have enough paramenters, I think they may be pointers ?? Couldn't check the first link as didn't have an account set up and I don't have any machines runing linux at the mo. But thanks for the info. I'm half way there. I'm on a slow burner with this.

@kadlerio 3 года назад

Yep, TL866II is supported on Linux and macOS with gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro It doesn't have all the functionality of the windows software, but that can also be used under WINE. (I use it for testing ICs)

@chloedevereaux1801 3 года назад

adrian your diode placement is terrible.... they meant to be flush with the pcb

@singletona082 3 года назад

How does the added ram help the machine? I keep envisioning a history whee the 128 had a better graphics mode and a conversation between bill herd and the company grunts that sold him on a pn internally made chip went different. What would change if the 128 had better adoption

@danielmantione 3 года назад

The Plus/4 has 64K of RAM, therefore games designed for the Plus/4 don't work on the C16... unless you upgrade the RAM.

@kevincozens6837 3 года назад

If the 16V8 chips are hard to get I would think it might be better to make use of some modern day CPLD chip.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

Then you are misunderstanding: GALs are easy to get, they are everywhere and dirt cheap. It is the combination of easy to get and ease of soldering and programming that makes them such a good PLA candicate, as well as excellent compatibility.

@kevincozens6837 3 года назад

@@danielmantione @10:20 Adrian said they are easy to get but not made any more. That is why I was suggesting another option would be to use a CPLD device that is still being manufactured rather than rely on a part for which there will be a limited supply.

@danielmantione 3 года назад

@@kevincozens6837 Well first of all, the GAL16V8 is discontinued, but the ATF16V8 is still being produced by Microchip. Second, discontinued does not automatically mean that the supply is limited. Many of those CPLDs that you mention are already legacy parts that are not stocked by traders. Yes you can still buy them from the manufacturer... but the manufacturer can be already discouraging use by means of pricing and making development tools inaccessible. They may EOL next month or next year and then out of a sudden they become rare, expensive, parts. Many of these CPLDs are 3.3V parts, requiring voltage converters on the board, you end up with many SMD components and this kills an inexpensive PLA. Now I'm exagerating quite a bit, because you can make a good case for a CPLD, some parts are being stocked by traders, but you get the point. GALs are interresting because traders do stock them and have stocks for many years to come. This is because they were a high-volume mass-production part that traders did dare to stock and those stocks still aren't exchausted. For the case of the 16V8, these stocks are still being renewed, but even for the 20V8 (that I'm using the C64 PLA), availability is far better than that of CPLDs. If you need to buy 10.000 20V8s today, it's no problem. In fact, I did, I bought some stock and have +/- 1000 20V8s and +/- 400 16V8s. I'm not sure how many Commodore computers are still gonna have a bad PLA, but I think I have enough to repair all of them :)

@bravestbullfighter 3 года назад

Any replacement for TED chip? My Plus/4 shows proper text mode but graphics mode looks like sync is off.

@SimonEllwood 3 года назад

You said the chips are no longer made. Microchip/Atmel still make brand new parts that might be compatible?

@DaT0nkee 3 года назад

i did not know the ancestors of FPGAs were used in this computers.

@petesapwell 3 года назад

Hi Adrian, I tried using the original equations for the C64 PLA to attempt to emulate one missing signal from one pin, I did this using an EPROM , address lines signal in and data lines signal out, while this solution did produce a output (that seemed good) the machine still didn’t operate as it should have (there was no signal on the PLA pin before this mod, also note the EPROM piggybacked the PLA and shared the inputs) Just wondering how the equations for this PLA specify timing...that info doesn’t seem to be in the file, just Boolean statements for outputs from given inputs...maybe just the chip architecture... might have to read up and follow the Arthur of this great piece of work. Excellent video, keep fighting the good fight. Pete, Yorkshire,UK

@danielmantione 3 года назад

A GAL has a propagation delay: If you change an input, the outputs will update with a delay. The timing is influenced by the way the two GALs in the C64 are connected (RAMCAS should be last in order to avoid switching noises), further you can influence delay by means of feedback, so you can route a signal through the GAL twice and thus have twice the propagation delay. There are 3 problems with using EPROMs: Timing, switching noises and logic levels. You can get some of these right by choosing your EPROM carefully, but not all of them. If you have a broken PLA, even just one pin, replace it. GAL PLAs are cheap enough that there is no reason to mess around with EPROMs any longer.