Alpha Audio did the work. Check them out here: Intro video: • Cables make a differen... Live stream Part 1: • Cables make a differen... Live stream Part 2: ru-vid.comvMLKdQo4... The full article: www.alpha-audio.net/review/in...
We did a blind AB test at MWAVE 2023 of 3 speaker cables (from under $100 to several thousand dollars) and a coat hanger. The coat hanger came in the top two in almost every blind AB test.
Hi (big fan of your channel). At least your blind test supports the fact that there are differences 😉 A blind test has many flaws. I mentioned that many times on my channel. Fortunately there are more and more studies that acknowledge the science behind cables. But there is more to be done.
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 although there is no perfect solution, blind tests remove biases that are introduced when we know what is being compared. If I know I’m listening to say a $70,000 pair of speaker cables, my brain could certainly tell me I’m hearing things because I “should” be able to hear the difference between a $20 cable and a $70,000 cable. I have no problems with people spending their hard earned money on expensive cables. What I do have a problem with is the false marketing claims that often accompany them. Have a great weekend.
None from any reputable source. Lets take a simple amplifier and pair of speakers. The claim is that somehow cables make a difference. Here are just a couple quick issues with the claim. I'll just use basic logic. 1. Do they magically make a signal better then what is coming out of the amplifier? The amplifier is not internally wired with these magical cables. Thus the cables at best can only carry the signal as best as the cables used in the amplifier. 2. At the speaker side. The speakers are also not wired internally with these magical cables. If these wires improved the signal coming from the amplifier and the improvement can still be heard after passing the signal back through the inferior internal speaker wire, then it means the inferior internal speaker wire was able to carry the improved signal after all. At best one can claim these expensive cables do not degrade the signal as cheap cables. However that flops on its head in my second point above. In my opinion the best cable for the job will be the largest gauge pure copper wire that your system requires with as many strands as possible. This way you create the largest pipeline from the amp to speakers without being a bottleneck. @@theaudiophilebarista2424
@@Youthman That may be true, but when it comes to expectation bias its easy to understand the concept, but its very difficult to test. In order to know if expectation bias is having an effect on a test, you have to know what someone's expectations are to begin with. And getting that information out of a test subject will almost always ruin the test. The questions are too specific and the subject will figure out what's going on before the test even starts. With regards to your comments above, those are your personal thoughts. Its your best guess as to why expectations may effect the test. But if you really want the truth, you have to do some research. For example, would your comments apply to me? If you were to ask me directly what my expectations are, I would tell you regardless of cost, my primary concern when I plug a new pair of cables into my system is that I hope they don't make my system sound worse. Why? Experience. From there, you can ask me about my selection process. I deal with a company that sends me demo's of every cable I'm interested to try first. Lets say my budget is $1000 for a new pair of cables. I'll have them send me 5 pairs so I can try them all at once. You may feel that expectations are going to influence my decision because I'm not likely to say a thousand dollar cable is bad. However, the reality is, if they send me 5 pairs of cables, I will be rejecting at least 80% of them. If I don't find a pair I like, it will be 100%. The point I'm trying to make is, how do you factor in expectations? Everyone has different expectations, and they can change quite a bit over time. If you read into my comments above, there's another important issue that needs to be dealt with. Price. If I borrow 5 pairs of cables that all cost $1000, I'm going to reject at least 4 of them. They may all be the same price, but the designs can be completely different, and that means they will all sound different. Price is subjective. It can't be part of any type of objective testing. If one of those cables go on sale for $500, its still the same exact cable. There's just 1 quick thing I want to be clear on. I'm responding to your post, but in a general manner. If any of my comments don't match yours, I get it. I have no idea what your point of view is, so don't take any of this personally. Your post is a fairly common issue, and these are my thoughts in general. Nothing more.
As an electrical engineer I'll just say there is no perceptible difference. On paper you get different impedance and I'd suggest the largest cable you can with a high strand count of pure copper. There was a double blind test done between cables costing thousands of dollars and an old coat hanger. The results were inconclusive but showed a slight preference lean towards the coat hanger. There is a real placebo effect with how something sounds when you know the price. The higher the price the better you think it sounds. Once price becomes unknown, opinions change.
It is getting a bit tiresome to keep repeating that a blind test has many flaws and does not demonstrate bias. It demonstrates that it is more difficult to define differences, but it does not conclude WHY it is more difficult. I talked about this multiple times on my videos. And off course Alpha Audio just demonstrated that there probably is science behind it. Too bad so many electrical engineers are not open to that.
There's a reason for that. The science has been done, we've worked with cables and audio equipment more then people might realize. Secondly you can repeat as much as you like, a double blind test remains one of the best methods period for many things. It removes placebo, perceived performance based on pre-expectation. If I spend $2000 on cables, my brain will produce dopamine etc. and actually trick myself to think it's sounding better. which will interfere with the true result. In a test, if I know one cable is way more expensive, that knowledge alone has ruined the test even if I do my best to remain unbiased and it's even worse if I know exactly which of the cables it is. When anyone says there's probably science behind something, it doesn't mean they have a clue what they are talking about. It's like someone claiming there's probably science behind magic. Pseudo science and snake oil exists and I have no interest in either. I don't like people being taken advantage of thinking they have something performing better when they were just swindled out of money. Sure at the end of the day if they are happy and believe it's better, is it a big deal.. I don't know but it seems dishonest. It reminds me of back in the early 90's they had this gadget for sale that you attached to your cars gas line. It was a magnet and the selling point was that the magnetic field made the gasoline flow better and improved mileage on the vehicle. In reality it did nothing. People thought it did and some even showed that they saved gas. However in reality the savings on gas was attributed to the person becoming more mindful of how they were driving which resulted in better mileage.@@theaudiophilebarista2424
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 You upload a video to make a statement that some cables are better than others, but you appear irritated that people's perceptions do not change because you say so. Present the facts and the rest will sort itself out.
@@iforgotmine 1. That is not the statement that I made. 2. “Present the facts”. Sorry, did you even try to check out the research that Alpha Audio did?
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 I agree 100%, blind tests are PERCEPTION TESTS and cannot demonstrate anything. Alpha Audio did something much more valuable: they demonstrated that there are differences in the signal using different cables. That's a fact and electrical engineers cannot refute that. Then if those differences are audible or not, well that's a whole different ball game
Different cables may sound different but it's not said they make it better. For example: if a speaker is a bit too edgy in the highs, cheap cables may actually take that edge off, just like filters in your speakers do. I once used cheap UTP networkcable (solid, cores bundled) for my speakers when my "van den Huls" were too short, the sound was excellent, less tiring.
Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the unwanted faint background signal noise I had been experiencing had nothing to do with the actual components. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion after I finally purchased shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels. Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to disappear/dissipate. The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes. In fact, the last group of cables I shielded were my HDMI's and Lo behold the room became slightly quieter again.. Btw moving my couch off the back wall improved my listening experience immensely. Corners and most prevalent, however, low frequencies love to stack up against the rear wall also. I enjoyed watching this video with my morning cup of coffee. Thanks for the little walkthrough 👍🏻
Dear AB, I got "my" Sound Artist LS35A's. Ordering was easy and Tax free. They are beautifully built. Amps are Jgallarhorn monobloocks and BJC Canare 4S11 [4ft]. So happy. Best, D.
Hoi ivar. De mission 760 I is een hele fijne speaker. Kabels maken sowieso een verschil en mensen die zeggen dat ze het verschil niet horen kunnen beter stoppen met muziek luisteren. Ik wens jullie een fijn weekend. Gr André de vries.
Of course different analogue signal cables measure differently. The real question is if it is audible. And I have yet to see scientifical proof of that one.
What’s worse, being without your main coffee machine or main piece of audio equipment? I must say, you’re always in a state of flux, Ivar! I will check out the video on cables since I’m home recovering from major surgery (prostate cancer☹️). Make sure you get an annual PSA blood test. Could save your life.
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 Ivar I have a question regarding my listening room/living room. This applies to the higher frequencies. They sound very sharp, I have tried with cables but without any noticeable difference. I have plugged in a Schit Loki and it was much better. But I think this is due to my roof in which is made of cement. What do you think, should I set up some type of absorbers?
@@classeirehall845 Hi. There are 2 possibilities. 1. It is caused by the system. 2. It is caused by the acoustics 2 different problems. 2 different solutions. Especially for high frequenties it is easy to do a diy test. Just place some absorbing materials on the first reflection points to see if anything changes. If it is a characteristic of the system you have to find out which piece of equipment is the culprit. Can you tell me a bit about your system?
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 have Audiolab 6000a , Wharfedale dimond 12.3 , Denon 6000ne cdc running as a transport, Yamaha stteamer, Van den hul speaker cables, Oyaiden interconnet and optical cables. Very low to the ceiling 2.3 m which is made of concrete.
That's a coincidence cos I just changed my HDMI cables yet again. I changed my HDMI cable to please my sensitivities. When I used to turn the bedroom TV on in the morning, I could hear the signal from the HDMI cable before it even reached the sound bar. Maybe I'm a bit over sensitive, but I just couldn't put up with it! Hence, purchased a shielded HDMI cable, and even though the shielded cable stopped 90% of the unwanted noise, it was only when I purchased a hybrid HDMI cable ( 7 fibres /4 shielded copper connectors) the signal had been totally protected. No more interference noise (RF) Conclusion; Everybody sensitivities are different.
@@totalplonker824 Resolution: You have paranoia and you lack understanding on how digital signal processing works. There can _not_ be any difference between cables in the signal that is moved digitally. Either the signal goes through or it doesn't. If your hdmi cable would be so poor quality that it can't pass the signal correctly your sound would crackle and cut or quit completely, like playing a scratched CD. There is no middle way. The actual analog signal is never transmitted through the cable, the DA module creates the analog signal after it's been transmitted through the hdmi. The only thing that can (and often will) affact hdmi cables is ground loop so you may hear a hum from the speakers. But this has nothing to do with transmitting the signal itself.
@Munakas-wq3gp I've stopped listening to what one should or shouldn't do. I let my ears be the judge! Transition-Minimized Differential Signaling (TMDS) - When digital data is transmitted, especially over long distances, it is susceptible to RF noise and signal loss. TMDS is a way of encoding an HDMI signal to protect it from interference as it travels from source to receiver. It works like this.. The sending device encodes the signal, organizing the ones and zeros to reduce the chance that the signal will degrade. Two copies of the signal are transmitted over different internal wires, one an "out-of-phase" version of the actual signal. The receiving device puts the out-of-phase signal back in phase and compares the two versions, ignoring any differences (noise) between the two.
I do not quite understand all the commotion about cables where,to my mind, it is in fact simple. namely : when you buy new cables and YOU hear an improvement in the overall soundquality of your system,BY ALL Means buy them (the cables)and be happy with them ! F... measurements et al.
Cable Doubters almost always have junk for equipment. Their bad equipment choices show they have bad judgement & perception, or bad jobs and don't make enough money to really buy the best stuff. So they are jealous, and convincing themselves that people are spending big money for nothing, is their way of dealing with "missinhg out." They miss out on a lot of things; not only audio. I am experienced with acoustics and audio, and you should not believe the myth that you shold be sitting away from your speakers the same distance as there is between your speakers. Nonsense. The sound doesn't even gel unless you are sitting 10 feet from your speakers. Not many people have rooms so wide that they can place the speakers ten feet apart, and then 3 feet from the side walls. If the speakers are a foot wide each, you'd need an 18 foot wide room. Most people don't have that.
I have appr. 130k $ of audio equipment in my house. Cable is bs. Of course you shouldnt buy 5$ cables but 100$ cables, especially power cables is complete bs. Just buying decent cables is enough. Go in top notch music producing studios which cost millions to build and they hear differences better than normal people and see what cables they have.
So when does it become apparent that cables make a difference, at what price point of your gear to notice the difference in cables? So cables don't make a difference unless you spend thousands on your hi-fi? Got it!
At the guy who "claims" to have have a 130k130ksystem. If that's true (and I doubt it), by using cheap cables, what you really have is a system that sounds like 4k (that's if you're lucky). You say people in studios" hearr differences better than us hobbyists." What a wild inference there. Is that why there are so many bad sounding recordings? I think you could hear a nice difference with a well chosen $600 to $800 cable, even with one of those receivers with a built in 8 track recorder from the 1970s. Great equipment will reveal the most improvements to assert themselves. There are psychological reasons why cable doubters think the way they do; as I've outlined. Recordings are what they are; but why add even more soind degradation with cheap cables.
Ah that good old "if you haven't spent enough money on your sound system then you aren't allowed to say anything, you really need to spend six figures and live in a mansion to properly know how good something can sound". This is a both faulty and disgusting point of view since it's only based on the thought of status and superiority and doesn't have anything to do with science. Your comment really shows that money and knowledge do NOT go hand in hand. Maybe you should spend some of your money from your money bin on a weekend course in electronics, acoustics and perhaps also human psychology?
Yes and most often for the worse lol. The only way to tune your system correctly is to take room measurements and use DSP to try to correct the issues. However the only true way to fix things is to use acoustic treatment. DSP is no miracle solution and can help only to minor speaker non-linearities.
