@@NeNeiSan As an LN KnK is probably indeed Nasu's 'best work' (with Tsukihime, F/HA+F/SN, Mahoyo and DDD right at the door - its hard to think ww), since it has more details and more narrative\character development (also in most areas that Ufotable couldnt touch or elaborate cus of movies planning) with so much depth (and first person perspectives) and re-value that i still sometimes struggle to find in other titles (Decoration Disorder Disconnection Volume 3 when Nasu...). I absolutely love the LN. As an Anime Series its also probably the best Ufotable and Type-Moon anime, tho personally cus of unfortunate situation with 6 movie (and small parts of few other movies), cant quite say its they best anime title for me as the story is essential factor. Probably Fate/Zero while not ideal adaptation - it would be still more close to the original, then KnK (in my opinion if at least movie 6 was more faithful i would think to consider otherwise), tho ofc animation\art is entirely different beast, and in KnK its revolutionary to say the least. Well anyway, pretty much agree on your score with movies. I really enjoy most of the movies, its really HQ-level division.
So as i promised here is how Mahoyo LN came to be and connected to that bits of Type-Moon history: Apparently Nasu actually wrote first "Untitled" 'prototype' story of Tsukihime\Kara no Kyoukai around year 1995\close to start of 1996. Its also "a story about a man who can see the Concept of Death in the form of lines". Nasu eventually got side tracked and stopped writing the story. The reason is also includes that later he saw Neon Genesis Evangelion (1EP aired in the end of 1995) and was inspired to write different story - first prototype LN script of Mahoyo about Aoko - in original name something like "Witch on the Holy Night ...and Revive Magic of Blue Bless" for official publishing, but sadly no publishers take it cus of printing limitations that Nasu couldn't meet cus of his style. 3 copy's was circling around Kinoko's friends, and one LN copy still in Type-Moon office today with existing photos of it). However, writing a full-length, officially published novel is something that Kinoko has been thinking about since high school, where he first wrote 1990-1991? "Fate/Origin" aka fan-named "Old Fate" under the impression of "Makai Tensho" (aka "Hell Reincarnation" and "Samurai Reincarnation") Movie and novel by Futaro Yamada. Nasu loved the movie so much that he remembered all content from it. Then he was interested in samurais, after it in Amakusa Shirou, and after that he become interested in history and heroes with anti-heroes (Damn Nasu thx to you i fell into Nasuverse rabbit hole like this too lol), so that how "Fate/Origin" was born, yeah. The whole FGO EoR Shimosa written by Nasu and Sakurai is in a way basically big reference to "Makai Tensho" movie and novel. 1990 "Fate/Origin" and 1995 "Untitled" prototype was mentioned in the 'Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period' material artbook. Takeuchi is probably only one who seen that "Fate/Origin" story script that was later transformed and rewritten into "Fate/Prototype" and of course "Fate/Stay Night". Anyways if going into more detail about "Witch on the holy night\Mahoyo" LN script process and if im correct - Nasu originally wrote 'Witch on the Holy Night' LN under the influence of the moment so it was a 400-page novel script at the state of the winter of 1996. He tried to enter several writing contests, but ultimately failed, leaving a screenplay-manuscript that simply went to the hands of his friends, as i mentioned before. Nasu later planned to give it to the 'Fujimi Shobo' author book publisher, but struggled to keep the page limit set: less than 350 pages, and left the novel unreleased. After officially forming Notes (Type-Moon) with Takeuchi Takashi, and releasing several projects within it, in 2007 Takeuchi suggested that Kinoko remake 'Mahōtsukai no Yoru' so that it could be released before their next planned project 'Girls Work' at that time, which has still not been released, even as an anime project from Ufotable, nobody dont even know what happened to that now. Anyways thats how we got 'Mahōtsukai no Yoru' VN in 2012 after many technical struggles. Going back again, after "Witch on the holy night"\"Mahoyo" LN script left unreleased, Nasu decided to take it and (not fully existed at that moment) the 'Mystic Eyes of Death Perception' concept and turn it into a story revolving around Touko from Mahoyo LN script, which is how we got Kara no Kyoukai Web Novel (KnK Web Novel story is also different from newest KnK Light Novel version which is canon now, but about that a bit later). After KnK WN, this original 1995 "Untitled" prototype story was probably modified with some content from Mahoyo LN and KnK WN by Nasu a bit as well and rewritten to form original "Tsukihime" VN as we know it today. As its turns out this "Untitled\Tsuki-KnK" prototype seems was only ever mentioned twice. Once in 'Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period' Material Artbook (where we got 'Tsukihime Prologue' from Arc point of view with lore about the original Tsukihime world) and once on Type-Moon old website. It seems Takeuchi currently has ALL these stories ("Fate/Origin" aka "Old Fate" script, "Untitled\ProtoTsuki-KnK" script, 'Which of the Holy Night' LN, "Angel Notes" LN, "Tsukihime" LN's, another Nasu not released LN - 'Kori no Hana' and etc) stored away in a safe place. I actually remembered or more so confirmed it not long ago (so that's why i take time) in Type-Moon History Episodes compilations from all material and interview by Moon speaker u/Ficzup who doing new KnK LNs Translation. So thats from sources are. Gosh i wish i knew Japanese lol. So, now brief explanation about 'Kara no Kyoukai' novels versions (WN and LN) if you interested: Web Novel - The web novel was (written in 1997 and) first released in 1998. It only contained 5 chapters and a lot of it has been retconned since then. MirrorMoon's and BakaTsuki's translations came from here. First web novels was also posted on The BAMBOO BROOM, Nasu and Takeuchi original blog and Type-Moon old website. Light Novel 1 - This novel was released in 1999 at Comiket. This contained Chapter 6 and 7 because the fans at the time didn't think chapter 5 was good enough ending (understandable! ww). Tsukihime Plus-Disc Extras - This was released in 2001 as part of the 'Plus Disc' and 'Dokuhon Plus Period'. It contained chapters 1 through 4 from the Web Novels with a few (around 3) spelling fixes. Light Novels 2 - These were released in December 2001 as a 2 volume Light Novel doujin at Comiket. All 7 chapters were released (aka self published). Light Novels 3 - Released in 2007 alongside the movies. There were 3 volumes that contained 7 chapters and the Epilogue. Later in 2008 Mirai Fukuin (Future Gospel) was also added into this group (in first released as a doujinshi), along with 3 Manga chapters drawn by Takeuchi (that were adapted into the Future Gospel Extra Chorus OVA). This novels also featured new illustrations as well. This is the most common version you'll see on EBay, Amazon, etc. As you could guess Cokesakto's and u/Ficzup's LN translations and the movies comes from here, so this seems to be the canon version now, yeah. This newest LN version changed a lot in story from the older versions and added a few thousand more words. Fujino character changes quite a bit, Touko’s hair color changes to Red. The biggest changes are in chapter 5. Rest should be similar, since they released later after the retcons - if im not mistaken. And for the visuals here is WotHN\Mahoyo LN script photos and Takeuchi illustrations. You can see how Touko, Aoko, Alice and Soujuurou looks in this version (just fix the link): imgur com gallery Fy5JS0c As i recall the first origin of Touko nickname "Scarred Red" actually comes from here, if im not mistaken. And this how KnK WN's and first LN's version of Touko looks with blue hair (practically like Fate/Extra timeline version of Touko, yeah): imgur com gallery PCe63XL Thats about it for now, if i remember something ill write it in the comments.
This was enjoyable to read about. Seeing the history of Nasu's work is pretty interesting and is nice to see how one work carried on to the next. Those images go to show how much Takeuchi has evolved over the years. I did like his character designs before, but what he does now is amazing work. Thanks for putting in the time to share this!
@@NeNeiSan It is indeed! And its only a part of Type-Moon history (plus what we know about, cant wait for more Episodes to confirm and rediscrover other interesting facts) as a whole. Adding up i can say that Kodansha themself contacted Nasu to make Movies in the collab with Ufotable, so i assume it will be not wrong to say that Takeuchi and Ufotable char. desingers established this new look of Touko with red hair pony tail. And that Takeuchi is the CEO of Notes so thats also probobly why he stored that all content (I wish i could see it lol Also i would watch that Tachie\Galahad FSN route movie, heh). Takeuchi illustrations in the end of 2010 is amazing, even tho his coloring is not the best his designs and style kinda was in peak then.
"Hello, 'Protagonist Name', you know im actually a Sorcerer" is recapturing theme of beginning's and the endings of the journey's for some main characters of some Nasuverse story's. Tho 'Mahoyo' (and technically 'Old Fate" maybe) was already existed in 1997 as an LN, KnK properly started it all with Touko.
I never made that connection, that's an interesting find. I never knew Mahoyo started as a LN. Im really excited to start reading it once Hollow Moon's translation drops. I don't know much, but from the little I heard about it, I know that it will be an engaging read
@@NeNeiSan Indeed! The origins of original Mahoutsukai no Yoru LN script is a very interesting real life story of Nasu writer beginnings, i will elaborate on this in due time in separate comment later.
@@ShizukiShirano I've interpreted it as "Magician" or "Mahoutsukai" being more of a layman term as opposed to "Mage" or "Majutsushi" A nice little touch!
One thing to correct: The first film premiered in 2007, not 06, other than that, this might be one of the better essays on Knk, even though there's barely any discourse surrounding it, but I'm glad you saw it for yourself qnd enjoyed it for what it tries to do
Never seen movies 9&10. They came out after I finished it back in the day. They look like side stories, guess I should go for a full 10 movie run this time. Thanks for talking about these amazing movies, they feel forgotten now a days with Fate being so big.
I definitely recommend checking them out. Despite being side stories they still hold their own and add on to some characters. This is a series that has really stuck with me and I'm glad to express my opinions on them.
i just watched it for the fourth time and only this rewatch did i fully catch all of film five, and now that i do it's one of the best pieces of film i've ever seen, genuinely amazing
It's really impressive how on almost every watch there is some hidden detail or piece of foreshadowing to be found. I'm going to be watching it a 3rd time sometime soon, and maybe I will catch something I didn't before. Just the thought something may be hiding makes it enticing to give it another go!
I love this series of films and feel you captured and conveyed through essence well. When I completed my first watch of the films, I was left awestruck and emotionally satisfied.
I want to read them as well, I've been waiting since I've heard the translations that exist right now are considered poor to decent. A redditor Ficzup is almost done with a thought-out, well done translation that should be done sometime this month, so that will probably be the best time to give the novels a chance.
@@NeNeiSan GodWord and Azaka are such amazing characters that was absolutely butchered by Ufotable just as like more then half of the Book 6 (for they own reasons somehow. Its funny cus even HF movies are better in this case adaptation wise cus there waay less story cut). I really get frustrated remembering this movie (even if its nice break-movie for movies), it subjectively cant sit well with me at all, knowing how amazing and in-depth original storyline and character are (who in the right mind cut so much amazing Nasu story narrative, why rushed it then, Takahiro Miura and co, i dont know and forgot already lol) and that we never see true 'Oblivion Recording - Bōkyaku Rokuon" animated. Well, too bad. Glad that at least Manga fixing it. It will be AWESOME true experience of 'Fairytale' in LN Version 3 and Manga, i assure you, its one of my favorite parts in LN too.
@@arowmorth I heard that it was considered a bad adaptation, didn't know to that degree. It's great to hear the LN for movie 6 is a lot better since that was the weakest part within the 10 movies. Really looking forward to reading the Light Novels when I get the chance and see how it expands on such characters.
@@NeNeiSan Yeah, i guess in this case its really worth it watch the 6 movie first, tho in condition that you will read LN or at least manga (or at least aware that 6 movie is not true experience of the story line), since you get so much more value out of this order, seeing it in animation, voice acted and all that in bonus for LN and Manga later. Night and Day ww. Hm now im interested to again find all KnK Drama CD, tho sadly at least YT is bringing copyright war on uploaders so "I need to go deeper" lol.
@@NeNeiSan I also remembered that you really liked Tomoe in the 5 movie (this movie is full of great things indeed). I have a really good news for you here too - he is even better in the LN x)
Damn its a shame that Ficzup LN TL project seems dont work out due to some "personal problems" (as he deleted this Ficzup TL acc on Reddit), but lets hope someone eventually will be the hero and make a good KnK LN's translation.
That's a shame to hear. I haven't seen any updates on it for while, so I was wondering what was going on. I am looking forward to the day when a good translation comes out, as I've been really wanting to read the novels.
I've heard the sixth movie plot was changed because the director didn't like the story, which is why is the weaker of the series in my opinion. Is probably the only one that would need a remake of sorts, but otherwise is a really good movie series.
I heard about it as well, which is kind of a shame since it does have an interesting set up. The only novel translation for it is sadly not well-received either. Really interested to see how the source material differs.
