I think i've watched like 6 overcomplicated videos until i found yours now. Simple explained, easy, and understandable. Thank you very much for making this !
Good explanation. It took a while to get to the point but I get it now. My 5.7 1995 Chevy doesn't have a timing mark on the harmonic balancer and there is no timing indicator gauge as well so I will be putting one on similar to your friend wanting his not part of the timing chain cover. I guess I will do the finger in number one spark plug hole (or vacuum tester) as I am not removing the head to determine the power stroke and then apply your method to fine tune the TDC mark to make on the balancer. Thanks! Now to see if I can just tap some bolt threads in my compression spark plug adapter first or use your hollowed out spark plug method. Good job.
Great Tutorial, The closer you get the engine to TDC the less distance your marks will be apart , I use digital calipers when i want to find my timing marks this way
To find out how far to put the rod into the cylinder, turn engine til compression felt put a rod ie screwdriver into the plug hole and turn motor til screwdriver nearly out, turn motor back slightly and screw piston stop in til it just touches the piston, back it off a couple of turns then SLOWLY bring the piston up to meet it this will eliminate any backlash. Hope this helps, takes longer to write than to do. Dave UK
Sweet little home made piston stop...I just pull the plug an shove in a screwdriver for a close enough line...and let's face it close enough is good enough for the street...Good vid Matt.
To be clear, that's TDC for that timing marker. If you are going to use a non-stock timing cover/marker, chrome or otherwise, you would use this process with the cover/marker you are going to use. I've built several SBC's in my time and never saw a timing cover with the marker center top like that one. How in the heck would you even see it with the water pump and pulley installed?
@@frankdavidson9675 very true. if you ever have a balancer off, paint it black or at least the timing mark area then use liquid white out or equivalent to make the mark to get good contrast. They are often buried down there on most cars, make easy to see.
This video does a good job explaining how to achieve # 1 TDC. However, if anyone is going to take the time to do this, please understand that; ..... "getting close only" is NOT OK. ..... it is NOT overly complicated to do. ..... we can obtain acccuracy if we follow several very simple steps. The split should be near 30 degrees or so. 30 + 30 = 60. A 60+/- degree split offers more accuracy than a 20 degree split does. Once the piston is in an acceptable location from Top of Stroke, the PPS tool should not only be tightened, the inner threaded portion should be locked by using the jam nut. The new TRUE TDC mark should be made adjacent to a timing tab ZERO notch that is easily viewable for Ignition timing. The marking shown in this video may become blocked from veiw by the engine coolant circulating pump and/or by pulleys. I would opt for a timing tab that was fixed more towards the # 1 cylinder. Things to NOT do: .... use a finger over a spark plug port to dertimine when the piston is at top of stroke. .... use a washer over the cylinder bore to dertimine when the piston is near top of stroke. .... use a minimal split angle.
thank u so much matt,a very good job explaining this,does look easy,i got the same dampener so ill beable to punch it out,just painted it black today so its ready for the new mark,lol,makes me feel better that i can use the chrome cover,realy apprechiate u taking the time to make this video,thankx again,tc
That's pretty good, because I do the same thing with a degree wheel and a piston stop. I know you essentially have piston stop, but yours is cheaper to obtain which is good. I'm just saying that you are doing the same thing, but not having to open up the summmit racing website and order anything. nice
Only thing is it will still be off, you have slack in the timing chain and gears so when you spin backwards unloading tension off the chain you will be off a few degrees... only precise way is dial indicator on the middle of the piston and drop it few thousandths off the stroke in the same direction.
Thanks for the knowledge sharing. I only got a question, why are we doing this, was it a change on a part that changed the original mark on the balancer? Put it in a different wording, why the balancing mark didn't match the timing to begin? I am curious as I have a 99 Suburban that some people say it could be a timing chain jumped a teeth... Thanks in advance, Jose
Maybe fill that other mark in with a black sharpie? Thanks great video! Now could you help me time an engine with a striped crankshaft bolt! Thank you!
My favorite way to find TDC is to drill a small hole through a spark plug and attach a vacuum gauge to it. Then you just turn over the engine until you see the transition from pressure to vacuum. Then I back it off a little and slowly rotate again until it no longer makes pressure on the gauge. This ensures that you are on the compression stroke.
I've been messing with that old small block I've had for twenty years. I must have set the timing by ear in the old days. My marks don't line up at all. Chrome cover.
I can never seem to get the right combo of timing tabs to dampners . So I'm always remarking them it seems. But I didn't make that tool until just a few years ago . One of the kids hanging around the shop was building a mud truck . Couldn't get it timed at all. So I came up with this , after that truck , bet I did 7 more ... lol But I normaly will make it before the head goes on . or with the degree wheel if I'm really in the mood .
Could probably use a spark plug anti-fouler instead of the plug. Nice and clean, 5$ to save the time. Later, you still have an O2 bung or its original application at least. Great video though.
@@wakjob961 yeah they work for o2 sensors too. Drill out the pipe and you might have to drill the anti fouler. Make a doughnut around the threads with High Heat JB Weld, then crank it down tight. 3 years now and no problems.
So the crankshaft rotates one time in doing so the engine goes through the Intake Stroke, Compression Stroke , Power Stroke and Exhaust Stroke. IF I understand this right that must mean that the camshaft rotates 2 times ? kind of a 2 to 1 deal ? I have watched several of these videos and no one has made this clear. Also some have said TDC is on the Exhaust side and others have said the Compression side. Seem's to me IF it were a 180 % out the rotor button would be pointing some where other than the number 1 spark plug.
***** the crank rotates two times in a 4 cycle engine to make a complete power stroke . TDC of the piston can happen on compression or at valve over lap . TDC on compression stroke of number 1 cylinder would be TDC for setting dist. on most engines .
I'm using a timing tool that looks quite similar to yours. It allows me to find TDC first and then to set my ignition timing in millimeters before TDC. It allows me to set ignition timings without using crankshaft markings at all. I might make a video on it?
I am working on a Mazda B2000 made in 1984. A 4 cylinder engine. IF I were to follow your example I should be able to set the valve lash for No. 1, 2 In take No. 1,3 Exhaust. Then I would have to Find No. 4 TDC. I suppose the same way as you shown up how to find No.1 TDC. Except as I said with No. 4. Then set the lash for No. 3,4 In take and No. 2 and 4 Exhaust. Have I got the right idea ?
***** if you find the TDC for #1 cylinder . #4 is the same . 1 , 4 pistons will be both on top . depending where your valve's ( if #1 is on compression stroke TDC , both rockers will be loose , where as #4 will be tight do to valve over lap on exhaust stroke ) so if you have it at TDC#1 compression . Rotate crank one complete turn , and #4 will be TDC compression . When you find the mark for #1 TDC , knowing 180 degrees from that mark is would be TDC for 2 and 3 . As for lash , not knowing that engine at all . I would adjust valves on TDC compression on each cylinder . unless you know what valves to adjust at crank position . like on a small block with a hydraulic stock cam , TDC #1 you do half the valves , rotate it one turn , do the rest .
God do you know if your at top dead center on compression as opposed to top dead center on the exhaust stroke. As there was nothing said about the valves being looked at for opening/closed ? Did I miss something?
A Dremel can cut a hairline mark into it and then take a fine paint brush and lay a line of white, silver, bright red paint, etc. in the groove that can't get bothered on the future.
So after you find the center point between your to marks do you then rotate the engine again and line up that center point with the pointer you used and now the engine is at TDC? Or is the engine already at TDC and you adjust the pointer over to your center mark?
Good question & because I have to do this on my Ranger like now this is what I want to know. The video seems incomplete at the end about what to do with the marks now that they are there. I would imagine crank until it lines up at the zero on the compression stroke & should be good but would like to know for sure too.
I think I must be doing something wrong. I rotated the balancer clockwise until feeling compression. Screwed the piston stop into #1. Rotated clockwise until piston made contact with stop. Marked at 0 on timing tab. Rotated counter clockwise until piston hit stop again. Problem is first mark passed the 0 on timing tab before I made contact with piston. Roughly a full 1 1/2 revolution. What am I doing wrong? SBC ZZ4 crate motor. I believe the factory 8" balancer was replaced with a 6 3/4" balancer. Not sure if that's what is causing the issue.
Great video! For anyone about to attempt to make the tool, i tried to break the spark plug porsolin with a screwdriver and hammer, the top broke off pretty easy, but the porsolin in the metal sleeve was really hard to break, i ended up busting out the air hammer and it shaderd it in about 3 seconds, if u have the option go straight for the air hammer and save allllllot of time
for #1 , not really . I try to get it closer to the top of the bore when it hits the stop . But the further down the bore , the wider the two lines will be on the balancer . #2 , no , your just locating TDC of #1 cylinder , not compression on #1 .
Well I copied this right out of the Chilton's book. " At No.1 TDC No. 1, 2 In take No. 1,3 Exhaust. At No. 4 TDC No. 3,4 In take and No. 2 and 4 Exhaust. All of this is a bit confusing to me. I do thank you for all your help and any idea's you care to throw my way. I do have another question for you. To find TDC you have to be on the compression stroke, right ? Using the method your using how do you know your on the compression stroke ? I am guessing your watching the intake valve open and close ?
***** yup , TDC of that cylinder will be on the compression stroke on 99% of the engines out there . I'm sure there are a few that dont do it that way . ,And watching the valves is the best way to see where your at in an engine . just make sure your rotating it in the right direction . Otherwise , things get weird fast :)
After you find the True TDC center mark, the distributor goes in pointing at #1? PS, I ask because I just bought a new distributor, dampner & timing chain from Summit Racing is why.
Great video, going to give this a try. Hard thing to get your head around when it does not matter if on the compression stroke or when piston contacts the stop?
It does not matter what stroke it's on when making the mark for a zero point.... why would it? Nor does it matter where the piston comes in contact.... again why would it? The stroke is 360 degrees everytime, no matter what stroke and as long as you make the contact point from clockwise and counter clockwise it could be at the dead bottom at 180 degrees! No matter what when you take both those points and divide them in half that mark will be the zero point no matter what anyone thinks it should be. It's gonna be and that is a mathamatical FACT! Circumference Radius and diameter all fall under the 360 degrees of laws. You are thinking about the piston and not what is being shown! Setting the zero mark for TDC The compression stroke matters when setting the ignition timing. You are on step 35 and this is STEP 1 ON THE NUMBER 1 PISTON SETTING THE DEGREE THAT COMES BEFORE EVEN STEP 1! THE ZERO MARK! 0 DEGREES And no matter what stroke it's on its 360 degrees around every time! The one time that changes will be the last time around as you hear everything blow through the block and smack your feet from under the floor pan as you leave behind what used to be your engine as you coast to an expensive stop to wait for a tow truck! Lol You are complicating the thoughts with steps way beyond the point of what he is doing and showing. You are not wrong at all about what you are saying it's just you are applying it before a timing mark has even been set! SO that is what is he is showing! How to set a mark and you can not go wrong! Actually that math is the FOUNDATION OF BLUEPRINTING WHEN BUILDING ALL ROUND VESSELS SO I KNOW THAT MATH WILL WORK FOR A RACING ENGINE AS WELL BECAUSE WE CAN PROVE AND MAP OUT EXACTLY WHERE THE PISTON SHOULD BE IN THE STROKE ALL 360 DEGREES AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE IT WILL BE AND I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO GO PROVE ME WRONG TO THEMSELVES! AND IN ADVANCE I WILL SAY.... I TOLD YOU SO! YOU ARE WELCOME!
Very helpfull, my new balancer was also different from the original. My new balancer looks the same as yours, but when i install the waterpump on top of it, it blocks view of the timing mark.. What to do?
I ordered a differrent Timing Tab, which will be mounted on the side, i hope it works and it would also align with the timing mark on the new Balancer... fingers crossed
My problem is I have my pointers on the top side of timing cover and balancer mark is to the right as facing the motor not showing up with light can you give me a measurement from notch from balancer new timing mark you made I'll give it a try.
Great video! I'm trying to find my TDC with heads off and distributor removed. can you help me determine it? i know that cylinder #1 & #6 are up but not to the rim of the block
Great video! I had maybe a stupid question, I’m new to this and was wondering if you were on the compression stroke or if that matters with TDC. I have to drop a distributor in and am researching how to do this, thanks
Hi, I have a 4 cylinder car first I rotated the wheel clockwise when the piston was on the top I marked on the balancing wheel then I rotated it anti clockwise till the piston was in top position. The wheel came onto the same point where I had marked . Any explanation to this?
you dont you set it somewhere random take your two measurements no matter how far apart they where if you divide them you should get your true top dead center mark is what hes saying
Depends on the engine and pistons...I have dished pistons, so I needed it to stick down in the hole about 3/4" to 1"...make it too long, and your two marks will be way far apart and it will be a harder to find the mid point between them. Good luck!
Remove all the spark plugs then stick your middle finger in #1 plug hole, turn engine clockwise at the balancer center bolt with a socket with a small pipe for leverage or use a breaker bar with a socket until you hear a gush of air go past your finger. Then place a screwdriver in the hole and turn the engine again until the screwdriver comes up as far as it can go up. Keep turning until the screwdriver goes back down about 1/8"-1/4", this is letting the piston go back down a bit. Your doing this extra step with the screwdriver so your two measurements are closer together rather than guessing how far to turn the center bolt in. Now remove the screwdriver, then screw in the stop tool using your fingers to turn the hex of the hollowed out plug finger tight, then turn your center bolt clockwise with your fingers until the bolt stops turning. So now your bolt end is sitting on the top of the piston. Now turn the crank bolt clockwise again to lower the piston a bit then use your jam nut to lock it in place so the center bolt threads don't move. I had you lower the piston just in case the spark plug turned and you don't want to mar the top of the piston. With it locked in place it will be ready the next time you need it for YOUR engine.
I tried this way to find TDC and several times the blow out #1 piston then put my piston stop tool in to move all the way to the top, then put my rotor facing #1 with correct firing order but out of all the tries it kept backfiring/spitting gas out of carb. What could be causing this?
Ok, now pull the head off, rotate the damper to your new line bwtween your two marks and lets see if that piston is really on TDC. Thanks for sharing. Why not use a magnetic base dial indicator when the heads are off?
Point the rotor at cylinder #1 top dead center with both valves closed so you know it's at top of compression stroke. Or just point at at #1 and timing mark at zero and if it don't fire you're 180 off and rotate motor 1 revolution and put distributor in again
Your timing cover isn't the right one it's for 305 engine that use different balancer on it. That's why your Mark is off using 350 balancer with 305 timing cover won't be 100% right unless you made sure the #1 position is at TDC.
