As a straight supporter of the gay community, it seems that friendship in the straight community is less complicated than gay relationships. I continue to be in awe lol Keegan’s muscles@!😊😊
Keegan and Joel, as always, utterly brilliant, inspiring, insightful and thought provoking. Being older... Don't go there!... 99% of my friends are straight...many are female too. Struggled to " fit in" throughout my entire adult life. Yet have friends and interests that should result in gay friendships. But it doesn't. Yet with age comes wisdom! Life is what you make it. Keeping healthy and managing mental health is vital to leading to good, healthy friendships. What You Both are doing with your podcasts and RU-vid is both inspiring, confidence giving and ensuring acceptance in an ever changing world! Thank You Both. Deeply appreciated.
Have you tried to find more gay or LBT friends or do you enjoy the company of straight people more? And maybe it's not in the spirit of this podcast, but have you had any gay experiences with your straight male friends? 😂 Are you the "token gay" of the group that the girls dish with?
Hey guys! Another great podcast. Joel is correct, under the Nazi regime in the 1930's and 40's using the infamous Paragraph 175 that was introduced in 1871, Gay men were forced to wear an inverted Pink Triangle as a badge of shame and ridicule. Gay people throughout this period suffered terribly and especially in the concentration camps. Even after the fall of the Nazis in 1945, Gay men who survived the concentration camps endured further pain and hardship because they were still treated as criminals. It wasn't until I think after German reunification (1994?) that Paragraph 175 was finally repealed. However the the Pink Triangle has been reclaimed by our community as an important symbol of resistance, defiance and being vocal about our rights, especially during the 1980s and the Aids crisis and even more so today with so many in our community facing a curtailing of rights. Also Harvey Milk was the first openly gay politician elected to public office in 1977 to the Board of Supervisors. He wasn't the Mayor though I'm sure had he lived he would've become Mayor and gone onto be a congressman or even a Senator. Sadly both he and the Mayor Moscone of San Francisco were assassinated by a Republican colleague called Dan White who was homophobic and objected to Milk being in government believing it was the downfall of society and values. Though White was charged with Murder his lawyers used what has now become the infamous "Twinkie Defence" that the normally stable White had grown slovenly prior to the shootings due to abandoning his usually healthy diet and instead indulging in sugary junk food such as Coke, doughnuts and Twinkies. Even with this abysmal defence the Jury convicted White of Involuntary Manslaughter and not Murder which caused outrage. White served 6 years in Prison and later committed suicide.
I'm in my 7th decade and one of my dearest friends is in his late 20s and have a mix of friends in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, also of various genders and preferences. Don't look for reflections of yourself, differences enhance. Look for intelligence, kindness, wit, charm, warmth. I like to woo a friend, celebrate what's best in them. All people should be respected until they prove unworthy. Enjoy each other!
Joel is correct about the origins of the pink triangle. My wife and I have a mixture of straight and gay friends. However, as we've grown older, the group that we hung out with 20 years ago, when we first got together have drifted away, because our interests have changed. We go to a church that supports the LGBTQ+ people. Our church also hosts a local support group for LGBTQ+. In the Seattle area, there are online groups that meet up for all different kinds of activities.
As a former San Franciscan, allow me to clarify Harvey Milk’s place in gay history. Harvey was the first openly gay politician in California. He was a District Supervisor, representing the Castro and several nearby neighborhoods, but never the mayor, altho he was affectionately known as the “Mayor of Castro Street”, the most visible gay neighborhood in SF. He was important in the establishment of an out and proud gay community in San Francisco in the 1970’s. He and Mayor George Moscone were assassinated, shot to death as they worked in their offices in the City Hall building by Dan White, a disgruntled former supervisor in Nov 1978.
The logo is Act Up. The activism that is a touch stone for leading activism for equal rights for gay people. Larry Kramer is a hero. Do a whole show on this please. Gay history.
ACT-UP did take the symbol of the Pink triangle from Nazi concentration camps. Jews had to wear the yellow Star of David and gay men had to wear pink triangles.
Besides reclaiming the Pink Triangle, Act -Up also said that Silence = Death. Meaning the if gay men don’t act up and remain silent they will all be dead of AIDS.
You are both correct about the meaning of the t shirt. It was a symbol from the Holocaust and gay people and later used in aids awareness in the gay community to stop the silence and make people aware. Love your channel. Have a blessed day.
Nice podcast guys! I definitely have migrated to focusing on fewer, closer friends, it’s much more fulfilling when you know they are there for you through thick and thin. For those out there struggling, don’t focus on trying to have 100 friends, that will just frustrate you. Also, be a good friend in return, that’s so important too, don’t always be a “taker”. And I appreciate you guys acknowledging that shared values and experiences are way more important jn friendships than being similar in age, that’s what I focus on, and I have friends in multiple age brackets. Keep up the good work! ❤
2:22 Correct the pink triangle was a nazi concentration badge to mark queer people. Later the triangle was flipped up and became a symbol of pride; equal to what we now associate the rainbow flag. Some queer people (myself included) still associate the pink triangle as a symbol of pride and strength. Silence = Death is the slogan for the ACT UP group. A queer liberation movement to help bring attention and justice to the AIDS pandemic. Very important history. Love the video keep up the great work.
What amases me is to realise, through your conversations, how similar the basic requirements for happiness, successful relationships, friendships and the like amongst varying groups of people are. Please get Keegan another chair, a comfortable one 😂 Margriet
I have a lot of respect for your interest and appetite in exploring our gay history and helping others to find ways in to learning about the rights movements of the 70s and 80s, and the impact of AIDS / HIV. This is so important and thanks for being ambassadors. Your discussions are very important -- friendships, boundaries, ageing, inclusiveness. Great topics!
Hobbies and other common interests are great ways to find and make friends. I'm a straight guy that was in a D&D type group for several years that included a gay couple. The whole group was real nice people and when my wife and I got married they all attended.
LOVING these podcasts. You guys are bringing such positive and encouraging views to the gay world. Keep up the great work. Can’t wait for the next podcast…and the next…and the next
I have made friends with straight guys as well. This is really good. I have gay friends also. It's just a matter of getting out there and making the choices yourself who you want in your life. It's your choice at the end of the day...
Great episode. I was married to my wife for 45 years so all of my friends are straight and most are friends we made as a couple. At my age I think I am mostly just looking for friendship. Somehow I would like to develop friendships within the gay community but have not found the way to do that. Keegan, your suggestion of finding a gay interest group gives me hope. I am off to start my search.
I appreciated the discussion, guys. 55 y/o gay cis guy in Louisiana, USA. 🫣 Social isolation is stifling. I think for older gay men especially, such a chunk of our lifespan was spent during a cultural paradigm that coerced many into closets, that I think we unfortunately are playing catch up with social skills, at least those skills that rest on genuine openness. I especially like and agree with points you made about not closing ourselves off to a diversity of potential friendships.
Hey Joel and Keegan, new listener, discovered this today. This is only great - these conversations need to be only spoken about more often. I think friendships within the community is such a topic, because how lonely being LGBTQI+ is made to feel sometimes. Thank you both for sharing, and I hope you continue! xo
A great podcast today....very interesting and inspiring. (Taking a break from work and watching it) Speaking of your t-shirt, I hope you had the chance to watch the movie, "Milk." A great movie, and the screenplay was written by Dustin Lance Black, (Tom Daley's husband) who also won an Oscar for it. I've really been enjoying the topics you've been covering. Thank you both! 👍
I like the idea of everyone respecting everyone regardless of age, as a matter of principle. Older respecting younger and viceversa. Of course if someone turns out to be disrespectful, I don’t need to like them and I can respond as I see fit, depending on the circumstances.
The pink triangle was definitely a patch on "suspected" queers and jews if suspected of being queer. It was also in the downward position, not facing up as on that tshirt.
If you're looking for friends, choose someone who make you feel like a cost nest of peace. You deserve the same levels of Faith you give out there. Don't fall into the trap of bargaining your values! Find a nestle of what you stand for in life. You got it, bestie.
I agree with Joel 100% on that old mantra 'Respect your elders.' My response was, and still is, that they have to demonstrate to me that they should be respected! Some may accuse me of taking things too literally, but having taken many English classes, I have never been able to figure out how else that statement could be interpreted as than a command.
During the pandemic more than ever I realized the need to connect socially with comfortable other LGBTQ folks to just feel comfortable and able to be me with the guard down. I remember my husband and I went to see the musical movie Washington Heights and was sobbing because they were fighting for their community and I emotionally and spiritually could so empathize with that same need and desire but with the LGBTQ + community.
I love your content. I feel it has to be said that the friendship circle available to you guys is vastly different than what is available to most. You’re both attractive, young guys so it’s much harder if you don’t fit into the idealized archetype of what gay people place value upon.
I get what your saying my issue always comes down to having time. I work with my sons...get dinner...go do my clients night routine...get home and then have like 5 or 6 hours to sleep and then repeat😊❤
Love this podcast. I'm one of those gay people that have lots more guy friends than straight friends but I do have some. Find it hard to relate to straight people and to have conversations about my personal life. My issue. One comment about the pink triangle. Yes, Joel's correct but it's interesting that it's upside down. The pink triangle that the Nazis used and now represents the gay community is an upside down triangle so the printer of your shirt made an error. Ugh.
It might be a good idea to start a discord where you can make rooms for people to chat on subjects they are interested in. Like a tab for book clubs etc. Depending on the interest people can chat with others who enjoy the same thing in that room. It seems Discord has become pretty popular for RU-vid channels over the years.
I totally agree that you have to look out for yourself 1st because if you cannot be your best self in order to be the best friend, best dad, best mom, etc. I did not learn this until I was in my 40s after going to therapy.
Having spent my entire life involved, playing / watching rugby I have friends of all ages and with a rugby crowd all shapes and sizes too lol. Love my new found gay friends too (not been out for long hence new gay friends). Love you guys 🏉🌈🏉
I support you both in anything you do, but you could seriously be having this same conversation about heterosexuals. It's exactly the same. I love you both so much. Blessings and peace to you and yours.
I joined a gay rugby team to try to make friends. It didn’t work too well. Im not sporty at all but I figured there’d be others in the same boat… Everyone was friendly and the socials were great, but I didn’t get the tribe I was after. I’d be there thinking I made some great connections and then I’d see the same people going on days out together and I’d be wondering why I didn’t ever get an invite? Opened the door for all sorts of insecurities. Then I joined a queer choir. All genders, sexualities and ages present, I’ve made some great friends, joined a dnd group, and I’ve learned how to sing properly as a bonus! It’s a lot of trial and error trying to make friends especially as you get older, but you keep at it. And maybe your friends will be who you least expect them to be. Love the show, gents :)
Great conversation as always, honestly, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Lol. I have a couple of my best friends who are a part of the LGBT community like me, but I am asexual and they’re not so it’s kind of a struggle sometimes to find ways to meet other aces or people somewhere on the spectrum at least. It’s also difficult since aces are such a small percentage of the population anyway. 💜🏳️🌈 Thanks for giving me some ideas. 😁💓🏳️🌈👏❤️
Another good one, nice to know there are other like-minded people in this regard. Love the tshirt, there's a film on milks life by Dustin lance Black which is really well done.
Was just telling the screen about the war Gays and the pink triangle when Joel said the same love the fact that Keegan is fuming that Joel knew but he didn't 😊
At 60 I have come to the conclusion that the gym and Buddhism are my ‘safe’ spaces. I think the clique mentality operates in all forms of life - it comes from fear insecurity and narcissm and in our car internalized homophobia - we have been colonized - I always remember that
Yes, Gays had to wear pink triangles. It was a very common symbol of the gay rights movement in the 1980's. In the 90's, they were seen to be more representative of gay men, so symbols for lesbians came into vogue and then the six color rainbow became a common symbol for everyone. I am definitely going to pay attention to this podcast. There is a guy I have known for years and even though he is not really my type or in my age group, he is really conventionally attractive. I keep my distance because I know that he will just have men throwing themselves at him 24/7 and all the relationship drama that goes with it. I dealt with that 30 years ago. So many people my age make vastly more money than I do and being friends with people who are jetting off to amsterdam or crusing to Cozumel all the time would be tedious.
I think that your point about age groups is interesting. Via an interest in birds, which I got into quite young, I had several friends who were 15-20 years older than me (or more), but I do know a few people younger than me also. I got into stand-up comedy last August, at the age of 47, and that presents the other 'problem', many of the others I have become friends with are maybe 15-20 years *younger* than me. I value them all the same, if they are nice friendly people, but yeah, sometimes, I do feel the need to meet up or communicate with people closer to my own age too, neither in their first flush of young adulthood nor in their twilight years, there's a value in that, and I do have good friends in my own age bracket too.
Great content, again! I couldn't help laughing out loud at work. Sometimes your jest with each other is just hilarious. Also, right on Keegan! While still being considerate and understanding that is an ebb and flow thing and circumstances do make it lopsided sometimes, I'm learning to notice when my friendships are not reciprocal and learning how to invest less where folks aren't interested in mutuality. Also, Joel is right, "respect your elders," in many communities and cultures does mean that older folks are to be respected, in spite of their horrible behavior. Just their stage of life will get you in trouble for advocating for yourself, when if you did the same thing they were doing, you'd be shamed and punished. Hopefully that's changing, and I'm glad where Keegan is or who he's surrounded with isn't like that.
Super interesting, thanks. Strange to say, the very ending discussion of respect, that happened almost as afterthought, was so so central to the topic. So many lonesome folks. So much disrespect launched as cavalier humor. I'm in recovery longterm. Definitely drink & drugs poisoned relationships.
Friendship group problems all stem from gays who leave school With their school mentality. They don't leave it where it is.. at school. I was never good at cliques because i was too busy getting bullied and beaten into hospital consistently. I made alotnof mistakes socially in the scene but i found genuine freinds who were so diverse and different and i love that! Both queer and str8.
Hey Joel, I think it's Joel, the guy on my right looking at you, just listening to you talk about how you feel around people in groups, I think you might be something like an infj on the Meyers-Brigggs Personality Test, you might look it up.
“Respect your elders” is trust that they are speaking from experience, like.........they’re further down the road, so they may not know where you are heading, but they do know where the potholes are, so if you take that into account, you’ll find your own way easier.
I prefer being a social butterfly! Its a lot less stressful then having to keep people happy all the time, i do think though its hard to be friends with straight men and gay men! with straight blokes it becomes hard to communicate when all they want to talk about is girls and sex! Now i love football and when you talk to a straight bloke about football they look at you with their mouths open, the look of how do you know anything about football your gay look! But then with gay men i find it hard to find gay friends because it always comes down to they want to get their leg over most of the time and it ruins the friendship! But i do think people should respect all ages there is a lot you can learn from each other!
Anyone else in this situation: You move to a new city, get involved with groups in the gay community, meet people and build what you think are a good group of friends. Then through a series of unfortunate events (some your fault some definitely not) you unmake most of those friends and now going into that space where you made them feels somewhat traumatic? Like you just get riddled with anxiety by going there and by the thought of meeting new people but at the same time you feel very lonely by not feeling like you have a space to go to... Anyone else had that?
I identify. "Unmaking friends" sounds really sad. I often think we of lgbtq carry so much injury our friendships suffer. I'm in recovery longterm. Definitely drink & drugs poisoned relationships
The whole "Respect your Elders" thing is often taken negatively to mean you should respect old people, just because they are old. To me, being old does not make you an Elder. Elders are people who have gained experience and wisdom and share this with others, whether it is specific to a particular group of people, a profession, or general life stuff. They are people you can go to for advice, people who support their communities and help keep traditions alive. So for the gay community, and the larger LGBTQ+ community, this might be gays who suffered through the AIDS crisis, veterans of the struggle for equal rights, people who have lived through important historical events, etc.
I had to get rid of a friend because I was a friend only when they needed something..but when I needed something it was inconvenient. Like I help his family out of jail and when I needed to borrow something for about two weeks....it was too much of a hassle!!!
Befriend people you aren’t attracted to. If someone you’re trying to befriend rejects you because you’re not hot enough, consider whether you were only trying to befriend them because they’re attractive. And if people are cold towards you but it’s unclear why, don’t jump to conclusions or decide it must be due to shallowness. You never know what other people are going through.
I’m a Joel! I have so many groups that I like to go between and if they mixed I’d die. There’s also a weird feeling of them hitting it off more than w/ me & then I’m left out. It’s so unfounded and crazy but it’s just me
Weird - I never actually thought of joining a specific group which I'm interest in and start friendships. I've been looking for friends b/c I have a long-time partner (25 years) but miss doing things on my own. I will try it.... I have tried social dating apps, and I've gotten bad responses like Joel mentioned. Thanks guys.
Pink triangles for homosexuals, red triangles for political prisoners, green triangles for criminal prisoners, black triangles for “asocial” prisoners, purple triangles for johovah’s witnesses, and a yellow Star of David for the Jewish prisoners in the concentration camps in Nazi Germany.
Hi there The other part of the phrase is action =life this was on the t-shirt when I was invloved with helping run actup london who campaigned for hiv/aids issues in the late 1980s
Like the Star of David, which Jews were forced to wear, homosexuals were forced to wear the pink triangle. It was reclaimed by ActUp during the AIDS crisis as a symbol of pride. On another note, I recommend the book Vital Friends.
The symbol/slogan of "Silence = Death" is rooted in the ACT UP movement led by playwright Larry Kremer in the late-80s NYC. This is how it became politicized and popularized.
As a guy man of 78 years old, I fined it real hard finding gay friends. I live in San Juan capto. Trying to get back to laguna Beach because the center has a gay night. Its still real hard at my age. If you don't have a great body or money your out of the picture. It just real hard. Talk all you want but its still hard . Most of my life long gay friends have past away. I'm trying also to move to San Monica, it's close to Hollywood. I don't drive so that's makes it harder to get around. In Hollywood or west Hollywood their organization that you can find people my age. All I want is to have friendships with people my age .when you lose friends that you have had for many years , it's hard. At my age, I don't want a boyfriend. I would like to meet someone to go to the movies with. Take a walk with. Go on a vacation. Right on I'm doing my best with the two or three friends I have now .
I think you said modern friends. Straight. Being straight with something we can get with is really simple. Liking at out moms and dads are what we have. But the system that accepts things are not quite right…
In the concentration camps the colours meant this. Jews a yellow Star of David. Homosexuals a pink triangle. Communists green dot. Gypsies red stripe. Handicapped (both physical and mental) blue square. People smarter then a nazi purple rectangular. Hope this helps, these are the colours in the gay pride flag and who they represent. Love to you both.
This makes me think of all those social media gay guys that only share pics with their "friends" and all of them are hung hunks in speedos in Punta Mita, Mx.
