First Wednesday: Defending Islam and free speech

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03/10/12 Freedom of expression or provocation? The appearance on RU-vid of an anti-Islam film produced in the US and the subsequent publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad in France have sparked protests in Muslim communities.
Embassies, cinemas and even popular western fast-food branches have been targeted by protestors. Join us as we examine the root causes of this wave of protest and violent attacks that have spread across the Middle East, Africa and Asia.
In the same month that Salman Rushdie's memoir documenting his life following the publication of The Satanic Verses is published, these recent events again open the debate on freedom of expression and freedom of religion. We will be looking at how this plays out in a world more connected than ever before, where an individuals freedom to express themselves can reach millions.
Chaired by Paddy O'Connell of BBC Radio 4's Broadcasting House.
With:
Maajid Nawaz, co-Founder and executive director of Quilliam, founder of Khudi and author of Radical: My Journey from Islamist Extremism to a Democratic Awakening. He was formerly on the UK national leadership for the global Islamist party Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT). Twitter: @MaajidNawaz
David Aaronovitch, writer, broadcaster, commentator and regular columnist for The Times. He is author of Voodoo Histories: The role of Conspiracy Theory in Modern History and Paddling to Jerusalem: An Aquatic Tour of Our Small Country. Twitter: @DAaronovitch
Myriam Francois-Cerrah, writer and journalist. She is currently a post-graduate researcher (DPhil) at Oxford University, focusing on Islamic movements in Morocco, and teaches Middle East politics. She writes for the Guardian, the New Statesman, The London Paper, Index on Censorship, The Cherwell, The F-word and others. Twitter: @MFrancoisCerrah
Kirsty Hughes, the Chief Executive of Index on Censorship - an international freedom of expression non-governmental organisation. Previously she has worked at Chatham House, IPPR, the European Commission and most recently she was head of Global Public Policy and Advocacy at Oxfam and Senior Associate Fellow at the Centre for International Studies, University of Oxford. Twitter: @IndexCensorship
Tom Holland, an award winning and bestselling author of Rubicon, Persian Fire and Millennium. His most recent book In the Shadow of the Sword was accompanied by the Channel 4 documentary Islam: The Untold Story. Twitter: @holland_tom

Опубликовано:

4 окт 2012

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Комментарии : 119

@thesprawl2361 8 лет назад

Myriam Francois-Cerrah is so perfectly indicative of the problem Islam has with accepting criticism. She is utterly, pathologically incapable of accepting that there is any kind of problem with Islam and I'm continually baffled as to why she's been accepted into the bosom of the British liberal establishment considering her essential religious conservatism. I find it difficult to listen to her, in the same way that I find it hard to listen to Mehdi Hasan.

@jeremyyoung1386 8 лет назад

+The Sprawl yes she is very unappealing combination - she doesn't listen, she doesn't think, and she never stands by any of her points

@charliehebdo2283 9 лет назад

There is no excuse for submission, this is just self inflicted oppression. It is willingly putting on your own Shackles of Slavery. To deny free speech in to deny free thinking and sovereignty over oneself. Islam is the problem, Freedom is the solution.

@tantrai 11 лет назад

The moderator is so irritating with his hand gestures ...

@khalidafzali5285 6 лет назад

Myriam , God bless you sister.

@valkyriesardo278 9 лет назад

Miriam makes a point in saying "it is the privilege of the powerful to tell the weak when they can be offended" I reply to Miriiam, "It is not the privilege of the weak to tell the powerful when they must submit." In the case of America, the colonials of 1776 were weak when they resolved to break with England. Among the grievances: "taxation without representation" The colonists risked everything and they won. Freedom is not free and never will be. I see no value in slicing off a portion to accomodate a demand, to placate wounded vanity, and certainly not to purchase false safety under a threat of violence, whether that be real or implied. No one has the ability to take my freedom without my consent. I will give my life, but never my consent. Censorship is not going to cure the world's ills.

@Trajanify 10 лет назад

Maajid Nawaz is talking sense.

@samueljohnson3530 10 лет назад

I agree,in fact it is paradoxical that Myriam,a revert,has been defending Islam indefatigably and Majid,a born Muslim is desecrating it. Myriam is a good person but I suggest she should not attire in a glamorous hijab.

@helioscentric7524 10 лет назад

Samuel Johnson Thats just nonesense no one is born a muslim people are born without religions and they are brainwashed into all this nonesense, its like saying Ali a communist revert or Brian a soccer revert it makes you sound stupid. And I don't think its a good idea to encourage delusions among people, and for that reason Myriam or any other person defending religion should not be spared mockery.

@helioscentric7524 10 лет назад

I find Mariam slightly racist does anyone else?Especially when she talks to Majid

@cameronianwells1839 5 лет назад

Miriam was knocked down a peg by Majiid Nawaz

@mikehays9986 5 лет назад

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE MOVIE THY ARE DISCUSSING ?

@TurboDally 11 лет назад

"Freedom of expression or provocation?" Interesting question. Do we ever ask this when reading anti-atheist/hate in the bible and koran? Why does religion have a priviledge to insult/defame non-believers, yet if non-believers even dare criticise or leave the religion, they're persecuted? "The appearance on RU-vid of an anti-Islam film produced..." The film was released ~July 2012, the reaction to the film was noted on Sep 11th 2012, the film was just an excuse.

@theH0UNDSofD00M 9 лет назад

Je Suis Charlie

@robmckay5421 6 месяцев назад

I am very impressed with Maajid Nawaz and his perspective on this issue.

@Robo78619 11 лет назад

The Muslim panelists Majid and Myrium gave a good dialect and backed it up with relative points outlining the reasons behind protesting when freedom of speech is used to illustrate the Prophet in an offensive manner. Particularly liked the point that if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was alive how would he have reacted to the blasphemous video.. the pious Prophet in his life time ignored people who stoned & cursed him. We should take a leaf out of his book!!

@andthereisntone1 8 лет назад

Quite a potent panel. Thanks.

@MrFreezook 6 лет назад

Retrogrades ... > Into Conclusions > Only if possible Without any Harm from any of both sides. It's not hard to see what is Right. :) and what exactly are the Fights < The Inner Journeys.

@prez_chesspresso 11 лет назад

she's a convert, enamoured and lost in religion. She seem's the type the more criticism she encounters, the more entrenched she becomes in her position. Had she been born in a different century she would probably have been a suffragette, she's a fighter who has found a cause

@letslearnarabic2812 8 лет назад

May Allah bless our dear sister Myriam.

@Jonahaliks 11 лет назад

What I've come to realise is people are getting into a habit of 'throwing' around segments of the Koran ('chapters & verses') in a de-contextualised. A lot of the verses that appear to be inciting hatred are in-fact references to particular people at a particular time and it's foolish for people to apply that to contemporary society. There's so much scholarship around this (not just Muslim scholarship) and it has to be taken into account before people start unpicking the Koran or Islam.

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

I am a Muslim and I agree on one point that it is quiet difficult for reverts to understand Islam in true light.Myriam herself does not follow Islam properly.I hope Islamic missionaries should guide her to Islam.

@BlackPower991 10 лет назад

The reason Muslims in some countries protest about the movie but not about Syria because they are allowed and permitted to protest about the movie by their government. However their governments will never allow them to protest about serious issues such Syrian war.

@seibrav 10 лет назад

Speaking the truth about Mohammad can offend not only Muslims. How Muslims treat non-Muslim minorities tends to sway me towards seeing Islam as a form of theological fascism. No need to tolerate the intolerant.

@TurboDally 11 лет назад

Even if he was not a war monger, the idea of eternal torment for disbelieve alone is demonstrative of the violent nature or intolerance of a religion. How is it that we can call someone a war criminal for engaging in genocide and rape, yet in hell where FAR WORSE is happening, we see it okay that people worship and revere such a being?

@Jonahaliks 11 лет назад

We live in an age where racial/sexual denigration etc is not tolerated...and rightly so! Religious demeanour and degradation seems to be fair play. It looks as if Myriam is the only person advocating this. I think her courage, conviction and position is justified, not because she's Muslim but human. People really need to be able to assess things from different perspectives and broaden their understanding of how people understand and value their religious beliefs & identities.

@raygenera 11 лет назад

If you start with the assumption that the Bible and Quran are false...how can you possibly understand them? That's like opening a mathematics book and assuming all the math in the book is false while at the same time trying to learn mathematics.

@TurboDally 11 лет назад

One can see the word "path" to be likened to "orbit". So there is a bit of "hokey pokey" going on here with the interpretations, they are vague afterall so it would lend credence in the "scientific" way to those who already have their biases. As for the 7 layers, it might not be referring to the atmosphere as the "lowest layer" contains stars... Now you could just reverse the whole thing but what is the "lowest" meant to mean then?

@buanton3063 6 лет назад

how ever,i would like to come to miss mariam home, because according to her guidance there was something interesting how she must treat me,about ten times,

@TurboDally 11 лет назад

If you start with the assumption that your religious book is true, how can you possibly expect to have an objective view of them? What about when you read books of other religions? You can see how that question falls flat on its face. I don't approach these books with the idea that they are 100% false. You have to evaluate claims individually. I also don't open any book with the idea that any claim it makes is automatically true.

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

I know what to follow and need no suggestion from your side.

@valkyriesardo278 9 лет назад

Majiid Nawas is off on his definition of libel law. It is entirely legal to slander the living. Libel law draws a line at the point slander when causes tangilble damage, such as loss of income due to damaged professional credentials.

@raygenera 11 лет назад

Lots of animals aren't mentioned...but whats that got to do with guiding human morality which is the basic premise of all Holy books?

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

She is facing problem in practicing Islam.I respect her but she needs to understand that Islam is neither west nor Catholicism.Islam is a great Idea.

@raygenera 11 лет назад

i still dont get your point honestly. there are animals that we know for a fact that the people of those times knew existed and they never mentioned them. so, not mentioning animals that have no relevance to the message of the book doesn't prove anything. i do agree that morality is already in us and doesn't come from the book. in islam we believe that morality is built into us so to speak...and the quran is like the constitution basically. also, there's no stoning in quran.

@raygenera 11 лет назад

Muslims dont really disagree on the most fundamental things though...which is important to point out. The Quran talks about how some people try to give their own interpretation to the book...but that's why the Quran says follow what's CLEAR. That way you won't be following someone's interpretation.

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

Even Myriam does not follow all the teachings of prophets.Prophet Muhammad made it clear that women can't wear men's dresses.Still she wears trousers and jeans.May Allah guide us.Even her husband is not a religious man.

@raygenera 11 лет назад

You must not understand what an excuse is. How am I making an excuse when all I did was say exactly what the Quran says? The exact qoute is.. ''In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical'' If you read the Quran liked you claimed...then you would know this. I'm almost certain you get all your info from one of those anti-Islamic hate sites lol

@prez_chesspresso 11 лет назад

contextualising: the slippery art of picking what is palatable and ignoring the abhorrent "Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists" a Muslim must accept the premise that the quran is god's word. You may believe someone is foolish when they apply the principle of the above quote. However it is their prerogative to do so, just as it is your prerogative to 'contextualise' and defer to 'scholarship'

@prez_chesspresso 11 лет назад

I think that Myriam's position is mostly based on her own assumed 'muslim identity' being undermined by 'blasphemy'. The demeanour and degradation of (other) religions/ beliefs is part and parcel of Islamic theology. If you would like specifics I can give you chapter and verse. I can empathise with how a person may understand their belief/ identity and still call hypocrisy when I see it

@prez_chesspresso 11 лет назад

a better question to ask yourself: was it fair to lump all jews and polytheists together in 7th century I hope you will say it was wrong to do so then, the same way it is wrong to do so now. Even if we place 'the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe' in context, it is still a sweeping generalisation that is devisive and antagonsitic. while you cast a wishful eye over 'Islam', I have lived and breathed it long enough to see the multitude who take the quote literally

@raygenera 11 лет назад

I'm a Muslim...I know where its from. Muslims differ in which hadiths are authentic, and a lot of us don't believe in the stoning hadith. The shariah law has been corrupted, and the muslim world is a mess...I don't deny that.

@todmantodman 9 лет назад

need to supply much more water for Miriam as the more she gets worked up and boiling inside the more water she drinks..

@nwagoduche324 10 лет назад

believe me Maajid Nawaz is no more a muslim,but he does claim to be one because of fear of apostasy.

@diegomerette3106 10 лет назад

They are all right. And that moderator is really aggressive.

@diegomerette3106 10 лет назад

Why are people hating on Myriam? She is actually pointing out smart points.

@helioscentric7524 10 лет назад

diego merette I guess its her pretentiousness she wouldn't be allowed in a room with other Islamic scholars in most Muslim majority countries and here she is a white convert thinking she understands Islam better than Majid Nawaz.I can see how muslims can find this offensive.

@StayHuman2011 10 лет назад

Well he is the chair and they still ran 1/2 an hour late.

@StayHuman2011 10 лет назад

helios centric Actually converts generally understand religions better then the people who are born into them. I don't know about Majid Nawaz personally but actually a lot of Pakistani and Indian Muslims run their culture and traditions into their religion. Making it inaccurate. Recent research by Kate Saberie shows that converts spend several years and deep contemplation before accepting a religion. This has to be true about Europeans who are entering Islam. A religion that is most maligned and unfashionable unlike a religion like Where Budhism. I would argue that by converting to the religion Myriam has made herself a second class citizen. To be a white beautiful, educated, middle class blond means the whole world is your oyster. Not any more! Why should she concern herself with what scholars in Muslim majority countries would do? She is of white Irish and French heritage and a citizen of UK and France...Her responsibility lies right here in Europe.

@custardcreamnaz 10 лет назад

diego merette I find her incredibly disingenuous.

@thewaywardcyclist3992 9 лет назад

i thank Allah for every breathe i take, every seconds He allowed me to live. He could have taken that away from me easily at any moment. Alhamdulillah for allowing me to live and worship You, Lord of the universe, owner of the day of judgement. oh and one more thing, thanks Allah for protecting me during the road accident the other day, i could have been injured badly but you protected me. there's not a bruise on me Alhamdulillah ( i was reciting yassin while driving like i always have)

@raygenera 11 лет назад

Your comment is all over the place...and it's clear to me you never read the quran in any depth whatsoever. You claimed there was stoning in the quran...and stoning is not giving as a punishment in the quran. i can't take you serious now lol

@nadia.f_0019 11 лет назад

this is an unfair debate

@prez_chesspresso 11 лет назад

myriam is articulate and forthright but she said very little of substance. for me she lost all credibility when she denied tom holland's assertion that there are many versions of mohammed. If she believes there is only one, then she reject's all the other conceptions of mohammed that exist in the mind of believers. We know they many exist because they give rise to a vast body of people who model their identity on the prophet yet have diverging values. Is her's the one true conception?

@mithrasrevisited4873 11 лет назад

The excuses start happening. Metaphorical when the verses or stories are embarrassing. Does the book say which are and which are not? Could then ALL the book be metaphorical, nobody knows. The book says it is clear and yet it is not, the book disproves itself again. You ignore the inconsistencies and faults and cherry pick the parts you like and then claim this is the word of a god and is infallible. Start admitting this is a man made book and not magic man sent.

@MikeTall88 9 лет назад

Wow, victim blaiming. You should not have x, where x is a trivial action. Like speaking a word, drawing a picture. By the holy noodles of TFSM, hair offends me, as they resemble the noodles of our holy God. Thus, everyone should shave or cover their hair, to achieve harmony.

@imransaeed37 11 лет назад

Boring loaded questions and statements.....bloody revisionists!

@mithrasrevisited4873 11 лет назад

You do know dinosaurs ruled the earth well before man. The earth was created in your fairy story(can't find their story) with creation of man from a (clot, mud, clay, nothing) can't work that one out and then the heavens. Too bad higher elements are created in the stars so it got that backwards. The story makes no sense, where does it? Looked again, no dinosarus created, left for a few million years and then men created. No, still can't find that one.

@MrKC23 9 лет назад

Christianity is about knowing and obeying Jesus Christ, who is GOD. Many people use GOD's name in vain, which is an act of evil, and it provokes my heart. But do you see Christians murdering blasphemers? Thats because GOD says: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d says the Lord. 20On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”e 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom 12) But if anyone speaks against Islam's religious leader, or draws a cartoon of Mohammad (He is a false prophet, not a true prophet. If Mohammad did not become a Christian, he is in hell being tortured right now for eternity), people get murdered. Islam is not a religion of peace. It promotes murder. If Allah is a real god, let Allah fight for himself. LET ALLAH HIMSELF PUNISH THOSE WHO BLASPHEME MOHAMMAD (Judges 6: 28-32). But no, Allah and Mohammad are both IMPOTENT, they can't do nothing, either evil or good (Isaiah 41: 21-24). So Muslims have to commit murder to administer their perverse standard of justice.

@Ab-wn5ym 9 лет назад

Jay John You obviously know nothing about Islam. Ever heard of the KKK? They are a disgrace to Christianity. Al Qaeda and ISIS are again a disgrace to Islam as well. Please, do some better research. It is obviously very flawed.

@MrKC23 9 лет назад

Ricky Mcrolly Sex before marriage is wrong is wrong. If you have committed fornication, then you deserve conscious hell fire forever. But GOD loves you and sent his sinless Son to be tortured, and die on the Cross, taking the punishment for sinners. 3 days later, Jesus rose from the grave. JESUS is GOD! You MUST turn from your sins (stop sinning), and obey Jesus, and love him with all your soul, heart, mind and strength. If you became a Christian, you will receive: 1. forgiveness of sins, your sins and guilt will be blotted out, 2. GOD himself will dwell inside you, 3. your name will be written in the Lambs book of Life, 4. you will enter the new Earth, 5. and you will see GOD's face. Otherwise you will be judged guilty, and tortured forever. This is true, whether you believe it or not. Your blood be on your own head. You’ve been warned.

@Ab-wn5ym 9 лет назад

Jay John Where the hell did sex before marriage come from? That is what Islam contradicts. Also, I will not believe in a religion that punishes me for not being Christian.

@MrKC23 9 лет назад

Ricky Mcrolly No, GOD will punish you for breaking the 10 Commandments (lust, lying, dishonouring your parents, worshipping idols, fornication, stealing, hatred, racism, arrogance, murder, adultery, homosexuality) I KNOW that you have habitually broken some of those 10 Commandments. Do you suppose, O man-that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. (Rom 2) But there is good news. GOD loves you and sent his sinless Son to be tortured, and die on the Cross, taking the punishment for sinners. 3 days later, Jesus rose from the grave. JESUS is GOD! You MUST turn from your sins (stop sinning), and obey Jesus, and love him with all your soul, heart, mind and strength. If you became a Christian, you will receive: 1. forgiveness of sins, your sins and guilt will be blotted out, 2. GOD himself will dwell inside you, 3. your name will be written in the Lambs book of Life, 4. you will enter the new Earth, 5. and you will see GOD's face. Otherwise you will be judged guilty, and tortured forever. This is true, whether you believe it or not. Your blood be on your own head. You’ve been warned.

@Ab-wn5ym 9 лет назад

Jay John Everyone has had lust. Everyone has lied. Many have dishonored their parents in some way. I have never worshiped idols as that is the opposite of what Islam teaches me. I have never done fornication, and I don't intend to. I am 14 years old. Islam strictly prohibits fornication and adultery. I have stolen. I repent for my sins daily. Hatred is NOT a sin. You may hate, but it must be kept to one's self. I am not racist and I oppose it very much. I'm not arrogant. In fact, I'm shy. I've never murdered. A 14-year-old murderer? You think I'm Jeff the killer? Again, my religion prohibits adultery. Islam strictly prohibits homosexuality and I'm not quite a fan of it. I'm not saying lying or dishonor is good. I am saying that it is impossible to have never lied nor dishonored. Do not accuse me of sins I have not committed.

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

I don't agree.I am a ardent admirer of Myriam but I wish she would have done better.Anyways skinny tight jeans is not Islam miss Francois cerrah.I hope you have read Quran and Hadith properly.

@yusufahmed6920 11 лет назад

Myriam parrot same thing in every program.I respect her opinion but I have no idea where is she heading for.I don't think she is a great Muslimah as many claims because she does not even know how to wear hijabh.Islam dicourages women to wear Jeans(trousers) that too skinny trousers.I hope her husband teaches her Islam properly.Anyways May Allah guide her to true Islam.

@blueicesheeba 10 лет назад

Myraim words of wisdom keep up the good work

@mithrasrevisited4873 11 лет назад

It is in the Hadith which is taken just as much as the quran. Shariah laws are based on Islamic teachings which has stoning all over the place. Plagarised from the bible of course. Tell that to the women recently stoned in an African country for being boyfriend and girlfriend. I have read parts of all the superstition books and after you come across the stupid verses it is hard to take anything else seriously. With modern science men created from clots etc and you want it to be taken seriously?

@bikermlp0 11 лет назад

predictably typical muslim ranter... bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

@acegirl 10 лет назад

moderator is very irritating!!!

@brianfinlay756 9 лет назад

The thing that i find most offencive about this is the host. He is very rude to everyone

@NotTheEx 11 лет назад

That cheaply made film with its poorly acted out script, must have held much truth about Mo.... If islam didn't have a lie to hide, this film would not have warranted a second glance! To the DEAD "prophet" Mo: Galatians 1:8.