The quick and easy answer, is that they have a target price, target build time, and target fuel mileage. Then they basically try to build the best vehicle they can within those limitations. There are also a lot of regulations they have to comply with.
I agree with you totally. It was his textbook way of answering questions "meets the standards" of what the customers want. They fecked up, and don't want to admit that their new jeep isn't loved by everyone like the JK is. You have a hard core jeep offroad/enthusiast ask these questions, and then see how the engineer will react. I really doubt it will be taken back to "the drawing board"
I did not want to say it, but I had the distinct feeling that the Jeep engineer guy was not an off-roader and really did not care about the issues that real Jeepers raised. As someone else has said, the market drives the product, and FCA wants to sell more Jeeps by sissyfying it to appeal to soccermom/mall crawlers/ and off-road wannabies. It is all about economics. Basically he is saying that Jeep will make a basic vehicle that can appeal to everyone and you the off-roader can spend thousands to make it your way. This way they sell more Jeeps. I guess it makes sense for a business standpoint.
None of you understand. Everything that is mentioned can be replaced by aftermarket. The wrangler is so universal, cant just produce a vehicle straight for wheeling, its balanced. And hes right about the 25%, everyone is still going to buy the wrangler but the 75% love the jeep the way it is. Auto start stop is going to be featured in every new car. Get used to it. How do you know its going to shorten the lifespan? Have you owned one? Turn the button off then. Im sorry you have to be the dreaded 25% where it so inconvenient for you. Cant make everyone happy :cheers:
He says "meets criteria" a lot. That's like saying, I made straight D's in college - but still graduated. I mean, if that's your standard, great. But sometimes going above and beyond "good enough" is what sets a quality brand apart.
I understand where he comes from, not being able to except any "fault" in the design, but yes, he definitely tries to dodge the question or justify shortcomings (and in all fairness, some of them are justified, but some of his justifications were terrible)
Answers translated: 1. 99% of wranglers only go to the mall/soccer practice, so the glass is appropriate for these conditions. 2. That would cost too much. Also, see #1. 3. Yeah, that license plate can rip off.... but we didn't think of that. Too late now. 4. It's not great, but you can "absolutely" buy an aftermarket model. 5. You can put on a 35" tire, just don't open the tail gate. 6. The government makes us do it. 7. We know you guys don't like start/stop, but we put it in there anyway. Too bad. You can just run it in 4-Low since that turns it off. 8. Yes, we know the parts are cheap. Just buy lots of $0.50 clips. 9. Don't blame us, blame Fiat.
Oh gosh, I just had this video sent to me and I absolutely love it! Never in a million years would I have imagined that my "5 Things" video would be brought before a chief engineer for Jeep (please tell me you also showed him our "5 Things We LOVE" video as well?! haha). It is also always worth mentioning that my husband and I thrash our new JLUR and test it beyond what's considered 'the norm' for offroading, especially for a practically stock vehicle. But that has always been our goal - to push the new JL to the extreme and find its limits! Which I believe we've done multiple times, and have been extremely impressed with over and over again. This vehicle is INSANELY capable offroad, even for the paces we put it through, and we love the hell out of it! I LOVE that you were able to bring the points up to an engineer, and I love even more that you could tell he was trying not to chuckle more than once! He's definitely correct in stating the new JL meets standards, unfortunately the type of wheeling we do isn't necessarily anyone's basis for "standard". Huge props to you guys for starting the conversation, and even more so to the engineer for being as tactful as he was with his answers! But on to the more important question - Does this mean our warranty is voided? 😂
Thanks for the kind words, we’re happy we were able to bring your comments to Jeep. We love Jeeps and we’re lucky enough to have access to the guys who build them so it seemed natural to bring up your concerns!
Many years ago, back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, Rover car and Land Rover warranties in the U.S. specifically stated their warranties were void when the vehicles were "abused" or when they were "raced." All sorts of things could qualify as abuse. I once collapsed three of the four pistons on a brand new (just off the boat) Land Rover 88" Deluxe Hard Top I was driving from Seattle to the Rover/Land Rover dealership in Missoula, MT. (At the moment the pistons collapsed, I was going down a mountain pass flat-out. I don't think the vehicle had more than 75 miles on it at that time.) I was 20 years old. The dealer, Gary Schubach, told me to tell the factory service rep that I "didn't think I was driving over 50 at the time the pistons collapsed." I repeated what I was told to say. The service rep, his name was Bob Wright, pointed out that the speedometer needle (which had a peg at approximately where 85 would be on the speedo), was frozen in place at approximately 20 MPH. It would not go down to zero. I suspect I was probably doing about 90 when the pistons collapsed. I used to drive like a bat out of hell. But when I got married at age 22, and with a limited income, I suddenly stopped deliberately making my cars "fly through the air." (There was a Jeep ad on TV that showed a CJ-5 flying through the air. The voice-over said something to the effect at the time the Jeep was off-the-ground, "Virtually indestructible." To a 16 or 18 year old kid, that was all I needed to do the same foolish things. I never blamed all the stupid things I broke on the vehicle in those days. I knew it was from the "abuse" I gave to my cars. Later, in 1974 after I served a tour in the Navy, I went into the Land Rover parts business. That business, McKane's Rover Imports of San Diego, sold many, many rear axle shafts. I would tell anyone to this day that Land Rover rear axles, in 1968 through 1974 U.S. specification vehicles, were definitely poorly made. Ditto L-R 4-cylinder petrol exhaust manifolds. The part numbers for these three items---from memory, were: 591378 for the RH rear half shaft; 591379 for the LH rear half shaft; and 574721 (and later 598473) for the exhaust manifolds. In all fairness to Land Rover/Rover, I never personally knew of any of the 598473 exhaust manifolds to break. By the way: You LiteBrite folks, the two of you, do a damn fine job with your videos! I'm delighted that you don't blame Jeep for most of the parts that have broken (or cracked) on your Jeep. (The broad frontal area, the close to vertical windshield, helps to attract rocks and other debris on the road into cracking the glass.) Congratulations on very well produced and edited videos. And Kevin is one-hell of a good driver. If you are still in Japan, I hope things are going well for you there. Domo Arigato! Andy McKane, Springville, Utah.
I should have added that Rover of North America (I think by then it was called Leyland Motor Sales in the western zone out of Brisbane, CA), replaced the engine and the speedometer without cost to Schubach Motors of Missoula. To this day I'm sorry that I lied as to how fast I was driving when the pistons collapsed. One more thing: My Rubicon's power virtually disappeared when I got stuck in wet sand right above the shoreline on Molokai this past April. I had the car in "Drive." I didn't realize until watching one of your videos that the new JL's, and apparently the JK's before it, were designed so that the engine would automatically reduce power (or RPM) when the vehicle is in drive with too much tire slippage. The day I got stuck I didn't have a tire pressure gauge in the car. Nor did I have our electric compressor. The shipping company would not let me ship anything inside the Rubicon when I shipped it from Utah to Hawaii. I'm looking forward to buying a 2019 JL Rubicon Unlimited. I've only recently decided that my new Ruby will be built with the Pentastar V6 and not with the diesel. Again, great work with your videos. And thanks for the advice about not using "Drive" when lots of tire slippage is to be expected. That was really dumb of me. And since I didn't have my glasses with me at the time I got stuck, I couldn't remember how the diff locks worked! Dumb, dumb and dumber.
I really feel like he dodged a lot of questions and/or you really didn't present the issues the way she did on her channel(Lite Brite). You kind of made it seem like she was whining rather than having valid points and really didn't explain why she thought things were bad. Not to mention most of her gripes weren't about just any Wrangler, she was pointing out what needs changed on Rubicon -- the premier jeep to be doing serious rock climbing/off-roading. You're talking about what is essentially a $60,000 vehicle here. Almost a $30,000 premium over a Sport. Take the license plate issue for example. She didn't just complain about the location, she complained about it being a separate box and/or not secured in a great way whatsoever(also plastic). Not a problem for Sports/Saharas. Rubicon's however, are a different story.
Sounds like most answers included "meets our requirements". He follows most of these statements with "listening to our customers". It would appear that some customers (maybe a lot), are not satisfied with just meeting Jeeps requirements. This guy was stand up for facing the nine questions, but it seemed obvious that he's well versed in tap dancing and bullshiting. Great video inspite of the corporate answers.
Big picture Jeep is selling to millions of people, it already is way more off road worthy than any other vehicle out there unless u modify it in some way, which u can also do with this jeep, kinda like if I order a pepperoni pizza and it didn’t come with enough pepperoni I can then take it upon myself to add more pepperoni.
The only question I had trouble with was number 7 why can’t we turn the damn start stop feature off permanently until we choose to use whenever we feel like it instead if the damn thing turning back on everytime I get in the Jeep.
I agree that it was unsatisfactory when he answered several questions by saying it “meets requirements”. He missed the opportunity to explain what the requirements were exactly and why Jeep chose to make them requirements. He could have explained the design options that were considered and their trade offs and why Jeep chose to go the way they did. Still give him props for going on camera to answer some tough questions.
Lite *brite* (not “bright”). Roman: thanks for putting the JL Chief on the spot with Lite Brite’s misgivings. But don’t marginalize her complaints just because you’re standing next to the Jeep guy. Wayalife was down on the rear bumper, too, and that guy loves Wranglers more than anyone I know. Jeep Informant shows that they’ve changed the fan blade design already (at least for the turbo). Isn’t Mopar going to offer Gorilla Glass? Did a Jeep guy just undercut an upcoming Mopar aftermarket product?
This is my 6th Jeep from a 1945 Willis to my “ family size 2019 Sahara JL” I get that every one is entitled to an opinion, but things that people hate about the jL. Hate.? Maybe things that could improve at best. These complaints sounded as silly as going to an awesome restaurant and complaining about the napkins and the length of the utensils. I could be wrong but it sounds to me like now a days people just complain for the sake of complaining. And to get views. I’ve owned from a Willis to a cj5-7 , TJs and now a JL.. and I’ve seen the amount of improvement throughout the years. We need to understand that wranglers are no longer for us off-roaders they are mostly purchased for every day use, so a lot of these feature we don’t care for are a requirement by the demand or law for safety reasons. There are limitations to every design specially a this square shaped vehicle we’ve loved for 70 years now. So if you don’t want your windshield to crack easily don’t buy a car with a flat windshield. If you don’t like where the license plate is located moved it or buy a steel bumper that will protected while off-roading. And keep $10.00 in your glove compartment for when some one or something hits the fender you can buy the 50 cent clip and put it back on instead of going to spend hundreds if not thousands at a body shop. In the end the beauty about owning a Jeep is that it is an open canvas that can be turned into what we need or want it to be. If that doesn’t make sense to you don’t feel bad , “it’s a Jeep thing , you wouldn’t understand.!”
4 года назад
There's a lot or wisdom in your statement. There's no perfect vehicle anywhere on the planet and especially a dual purpose vehicle. To make it good for one purpose then you have to make sacrifices from the other purpose. It's almost impossible to get a tank to have good gas mileage as well as it's almost impossible to make good gas mileage feather weight vehicles to stand up to brutal off road use. You're correct, people who don't understand how things work are the first ones to cry and complain about anything. That complainer would be the first one to cry when her kids hung on the open refrigerator door that the door bent or broke off. Grow up people.
My thoughts exactly. Well put. People will always complain no matter what, its just easier. There is a much deeper meaning to the design aspect than most people are willing to spend time to think about. I do appreciate that Jeep listens to the consumer complaints to make the vehicle best for the majority. But its impossible to please everyone.
Jeeper: why does this suck? Engineer: that doesnt suck Jeeper: why does that break off? Engineer: you dont drive in an appropriate manner Jeeper: why is this so crappy? Engineer: it meets all our design criteria Jeeper: why isnt this good enough? Engineer: oh its just good enough by our standards because you bought it ...JK everyone likes to poke fun at Engineers
Engine still sucks not enough power. Put a diesel in it. Bumpers suck built my own. TPS auto stop start suck. By passed it. TPS BAD NEWS WHEN AIRING DOWN replaced fan with electric fans bigger radiator. AC evaporater need to be a lot bigger, hits 120 where I run.
I would like to know if it really saves me anything. My experience is the start stop works and does not bother me. I have had the Jl since all summer and it’s great.
This dude sidestepped most questions. "Why is the fan so loud"? "Umm, the fan needs to cool stuff so it comes on as needed". Hey, bud. The fan on the JK does it's job and it isn't that loud.
NorthernBasser I could be totally wrong as I don’t have either of these vehicles but I believe that with the advent of the 2.0L Turbo, extra cooling is absolutely necessary. To be honest, if the fan truly does it’s job I’d rather it did so than have an overheated engine but a quieter cabin.
I wish you would have asked more point blank questions. Like: Why can't the owner reset the TPS for free? Why can't the motor-stop be a switch that can be left off if the owner chooses? Why can't chassis sliders be added from the factory(air flow shoud not be a problem with the big fan)? Why is the lisence bracket designed to be a fale point(that is the only reason for it to be plactic)? I did like your question about the hellcat but why don't they make a Jeep version more like the Demon(street legal but not really its intention)? I appreciate your efforts but the engineer really didn't answer the questions.
Engineers Response (in hindsight): "It meets our functional criteria" Common Sense Response: "Raise the bar". If you set your standards low enough, you can always meet criteria. Come on......
I don't think that's his job. He's there to engineer a machine; not worry about the bottom line at Jeep on how much they can suck as much money for a pack of clips. Ever hear of the $500.00 hammer the Air Force buys, or the $1500.00 metal coffee cup the Air Force Refueling folks buy????
Hé was speaking in production costs terms... not dealership terms. I’m fact he’s was prob speaking the truth. It’s just that you get ripped off anyways.
Greg Roberts how did he properly address it? Either I missed when he told us where and how to get the clips for 50 cents a piece or he was talking out his ass.
The thing about the fenders is that now there is a gap next to the body where more little rocks and twigs can get stuck. Minor complaint but none the less, my JK isn't as bad as the JL.
Great job TFL for getting head Engineer there. Hmmm, 30+ yr Jeeper here, Must be young engineers that refused to look at prior Jeeps and the forethought that went into them, and other industries that do have fan noise standards and HAVE addressed the fan noise issue through design. 1. For decades the License Plate was mounted off the bumper and under the Tail Light - For This Exact Reason! - Just put it back where decades of proof say it should go. 2. For decades the Cross Members were flat where they bolted to the Frame so they did not generate "Catch Points" - Just keep using the engineering already in place for this issue and stop making excuses to compensate for newbie engineers thinking they need to change everything simply because they do not understand why it was like that to start with. 3. A high tensile Aluminum Skid will add very little to the weight. While if large enough (what is being asked for) will actually help save fuel by reducing drag and increase heat dissipation. Most manufacturers have already researched this, determined making the undercarriage as flat as possible Helps them meet the new MPG standards, and have implemented it on dozens of their cars. Also, it is NOT being asked that it is standard equipment, only that it is an available option! 4. Try contacting the manufacturers of fans for the computer industry. They have all redesigned their fans to meet the office environment low decibel requirements while still providing the cooling requirements. Honestly, it not only can be done, it HAS been done. 5. Hmmm, TPM notifications are for the safety of the consumer; Ummm, they why is the safety of all consumers that you are actually marketing this vehicle to not respected enough to have that same safety?!! It has been brought up to you by hundreds of people (and marketing class will tell you that you only actually hear from about 2% of the people with an issue), it is REAL. If the sensor light is on All The Time it is NOT Protecting ANYONE. Like LB has graciously responded with in their response video (OMG they are being so nice about all this), in all the computerized displays available, put a way to dial in the pressure the customer is running so they can actually benefit from this SAFETY feature! 6. As to the Auto Stop Start "feature", yes, the Gov. has you by the nads on this one. And I honestly think that the Jeep Engineers are just as tilted about it as the customers are. Hence it is why they put the button in AND made it so easy to just disable by simply removing a part (check out "JeepInformant" for how) which is most likely the most they can do without getting into trouble.
Of all of the complaints... he should have owned up to the license plate being a bad design, bad location. There are so many other options that would have worked and been legal. That one bugs me. As an engineer, if you make a mistake own up to it. The others I agree with. The overwhelming vast majority of owners will not have an issue with the other items. I have seen a lot of JLs in CO with messed up rear plates already. Plus, the rear steel bumper is unacceptable for a 4 wheeling performance upgrade. Would be better off without that being an option. Now the clips are an awesome design. That makes perfect sense and I am all for not having body damage from the fender being contacted or damaging a fend that holds expensive lights and having to replace it through FCA... but the upgraded steel bumper causing body damage is cool though.
They could have easily left the license plate in the same spot the JK had it. When I eventually buy a JL the first thing I'm doing is relocating the license plate to the spare tire. And after seeing videos, I would pass on the steel bumper upgrade. I will be getting the base model bumpers and replacing them next after the plate relocation. I agree the fender clips are a good design. That's the one and only question I believe he answered properly. Everything else was dodging.
He should consider these questions seriously and look for ways to improve the product these are legit questions.. Defending his position with vague statements. Well documented windshield cracking.. The answer is.. Don't want to admit this we will have to do a recall.. LOL Skid played under the Jeep.. The answer is every ounce of weight helps us with our EPA regulations and fuel/mileage we want to avoiding any conflict with this.. License plate bracket in the wrong place.. The right answer should be.. Yes we should move it.. We made a mistake putting it there.. Y'all get the point... What are other good answers?? LOL
He stated why the window cracks. It's a vertical, un-tapered piece of glass by design (as it has been), as such rocks colliding with it at upwards of 100 miles per hour tend to collide nearly head on causing more significant impact damage. I've killed two windshields on my jk during my Boston commute in the last year. This isn't a new issue, nor is it one unique to the newer jl wranglers. He also stated that his design and engineer team spent a long time designing a glass durable enough to withstand a reasonable amount of force. Considering all front windshield glass is required to be safety glass I'm sure it's nearly as durable as gorilla glass. It's also the law of diminishing returns. Heavier, very thick glass, lowers gas econ. It's also hellish expensive to repair/replace. So they probably landed in the middle somewhere. He clearly listened, as he has responses. I found the reasoning informative. It seems you guys turned your ears off though. Man's proud of his designs.
That was the one answer where I took his side. Makes sense to have a failure point be the least expensive part to replace. That’s good design. Wish there was a link in the comments for where we could easily buy these clips though...
Lifter oiling issues. We have had some cases of the rollers on the lifter seizing up. This is not a mass problem. Just an issue on a small scale. Millions of lifters are made and you will have some fail. That goes for anything mechanical.
The oiling issues are probably due to the 0W20 water they are specifying instead of engine oil. A far BIGGER and more widespread issue is the steering/handling. That's a serious danger.
Just like the 4.0L. even after a top end rebuild with new cylinder head, rods, lifters etc, oil would not get to those lifters for about 4 minutes and only after driving for at least 10 would the squealing go away....looks like a Jeep trend.
Not once did you ask about the biggest safety issue, the loose steering. Thousands have and are complaining. Please PM this engineers contact information so i can send him my video showing the issue.
I know right, who gives a crap about the License plate bracket! I just want my brand new Rubicon to drive down the road straight with no steering wheel play.
Greg Jones do u know if that has just been a Rubicon thing? Because the steering on my Sport S has been really good. Also, is your steering always sketchy or is it just under certain circumstances?
I’ve owned a 51 CJ3A, 75 Cj5, 84 CJ7, 97 TJ, 08 JKU Rubi, and never had a windshield crack, my 2018 JL’s windshield cracked after 5 months of use and it’s all because of the upright design! 😂😂
I will say that fan is crazy loud. It does let up a little bit when you turn the Auto A/C off. The start/stop could use some refinement as well. When it activates the Jeep shutters like it has a manual transmission and is stalling out. It is a surprise and a weird feeling the first few times. It is also weird when I come to a full stop to park it. The engine cuts off then turns back on when you put the transmission in park. Either way, what would you rather have? I really enjoy driving my Rubicon even if the steering is all over the place.
ESS is not a "Jeep Thing". Most modern cars have it. When testing a vehicle it gives a small improvement in fuel economy so that the figures they send to the govt look better. It also ads wear and tear to the vehicle and most people hate ESS. The govt don't care about wear and tear of your vehicle.
Haha! It may not be a ”Jeep Thing” but my Jeep has it. It is fairly well documented that start/stop wear and tear is negligible. So I am not too concerned about it. I just wish when it activated the whole vehicle didn’t shutter like it stalled.
jay angus way too much crap going on and this will lead to big service problems..This new stuff is Gay Junk..My 1999 Xj has 330,000 miles and is just like new.4.0 AW4 BEAST!!!!!
Hearing allot of softball corporate answers to these questions. “Meeting” standards shouldn’t be a Jeep thing. Jeeps should be built to “exceed” requirements. He seemed to be insulted by the questions instead of inspired by the opportunity to make it even better.
The engineer started by saying *We Listen to Our Customers,* but most of his answers said *We Built It To Our Specifications and We Are Happy With Them.* *That's the American Way!* ;-D
I'm an engineer for another company, so let me try and answer some of these for you more bluntly. As far as the glass, we are always trying to prevent air from going under the vehicle to improve aero and thusly MPG's. So if it's not going under it's going over, and if the windshield is a huge upright slab of glass every stone and pebble on the road is going to be headed right for your windshield. I'd also be surprised if they were not using an acoustic glass to reduce cabin noise, and acoustic glass is more prone to cracking and chipping. Gorilla glass is also just way too expensive to use on a mass market vehicle. I also doubt Corning has that kind of production capacity, and probably would not be willing to foot the bill for that investment by themselves, they would want FCA to do it, making an already expensive part even more expensive. Ergo why you are getting the gorilla glass screen as a limited release after sale component. Auto stop start is annoying. Everyone knows it, everyone hates it, and it has almost no effect on real world MPG. That said it's a cheap and easy way to get 1 extra MPG, and with CAFE standards 1 MPG is a big deal. The system has to be what is called non-latching or it does not fully count during EPA testing. If it has a permanent "OFF" feature they will do two runs with it off, and on, then take the average. Because auto stop start is borderline useless already you wouldn't have a shot in hell of getting that extra MPG. From the look on his face and some of his comments I'd almost guarantee they have had a boatload of warranty claims from people that put some big old plate under the whole thing, and then took it rock crawling in the desert when it was 120 degrees. Burned up the motor, burned up the trans, burned up the diff, burned up damn near everything. So they put some big ass high velocity fans in the front to hopefully save themselves from a few claims down the road. And maybe too in the hopes that the extreme noise will remind some of you that you're f***ing idiots, and not to make modifications that interfere or impede the vehicle's ability to cool itself. Finally I'd be surprised if even one percent of these are ever taken offroad. Like it or not you can't completely compromise Fuel economy, NVH, safety or reliability for the 99% of people who are actually buying these things. And if the real off-roaders want to complain about that keep in mind that this vehicle wouldn't even be made without them. They allow economies of scale that make this a viable product in today's market.
Mark B6750 we all gonna find out soon as all the start stop cars get older and more cars enter the used car market. For me start stop would only be on when. I know for a fact I'm going into heavy traffic. Even then just how much fuel am I saving exactly? 😂
justSTUMBLEDupon According to Ford across the range of engines they have with it, 3-6%. I only use Ford because they’re the only ones who’ve said something regarding the savings, that I’ve seen.
@@justSTUMBLEDupon at idle a strong majority of vehicles consume very little fuel,I'll take that over having to put a starter on my JL every other year
The Jeep adapts the same technology as Mercedes for the stop start. The engine stops and the computer determines which cylinder that is closest to TDC. Then it injects fuel and sparks that cylinder to "bump" the engine into running.
Did anyone else want to slap the arrogance out of him? So TFL, lets make a video of a Jeep engineer not actually answering any questions. 1) Windshield cracks too easily. - It does. No denying it. No denying that it being flat obviously has something to do with it, true, BUT I've had chips in my JK windshield numerous times and if you leave them log enough, they start to spider. Every time I've gotten a rock hit on my JL, it's immediately cracked halfway across the windshield. I'm on my 3rd windshield. I think it's interesting that Mopar is about to launch Gorilla Glass as an add-on, but now the CHIEF ENGINEER says that it won't make a difference. I'll bet the marketing guys aren't going to be happy with him. 2) skid plate holes and weird shapes snagging on rocks, why not a belly plate - He just said it would weight too much and retain heat. So why not do an aluminum belly skid. It would weigh the same or less than the current factory steel skids. Use the Aluminum there instead of on body panels that need to handle more stress... 3-4) License plate and steel Bumper is too flimsy - He just said it meets standards. Her comlaint was that the put a plastic insert in a steel bumper. Just make the whole thing steel and the plate bracket wouldnt keep popping out. Fine but don't sell the steel bumper group for more than aftermarket real steel bumpers if it's inferior. Just make that the standard bumper and leave it at that. It's advertised as being more like an afermarket steel bumper and it's junk. 5) Tailgate want handle weight of 35 - He answered the question by saying it would handle a bigger tire? Maybe instead he should have explained why Jeep didn't include the Mopar tailgate reinforcement bracket as part of the structure? 5)TPMS - His answer makes sense 7) ESS - why doesn't it stay off if you turn it off. He just said you can turn it off, but you have to do it every time you start the jeep. Why did'nt he respond to the question of Why does the button not retrain your last setting? If I turn it off, keep it off until I turn it back on. If I turn the AC on and shut the Jeep down, when I turn the Jeep back on the AC stays on. Why doesn't ESS do the same thing? 8) I agree with him that it's nice the fender clips pop off to save the body and fender, but you CANNOT get the clips anywhere. Jeep does not have the part # and the only way you can currently get them is by buying a new fender. 9) The annoying Fan - He just says it's necessary. He doesn't address why it's so loud compared to every single other vehicle you can buy. The added issue with it is that it's ALWAYS on when you are in 4 low and the AC is on and you absolutely cannot hear a spotter over the fan. It is so annoying on the trail that you annoy everyone else around you. Its great to be out in nature and the fan completely destroys that feeling.
I kinda got the feeling that he didn’t really know the whys, so he just danced around it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chief Engineer is more Project Manager than Engineer, so he may not actually know why the fan is louder, or the ESS won’t retain its setting.
Actually when he talked about the TPMS didn't make any sense at all. The problem with it is from Jeep it has a set point as to when the light stays one let's say 32psi (because I don't know what it is) so if pressure drops below that then the light stays on until you put air in your tire. When you run larger tires you sometimes will run less air which makes the light stay on at all times and running down the freeway you don't know if your going flat unless you keep checking it. When wheeling we have to air down so that light stays on the whole time. It would be nice to be able to set perimeters so that when wheeling we know if we are loosing air. So example, when wheeling you air down to 12psi but you set ur alarm to 8psi so that your tire doesn't pop off the rim. You're out on the trail and all of a sudden ur TPMS light goes off you know know your losing air. The way it is now we would not know without checking every so often but that light stays on the whole time and it's annoying. This would be amazing to be able to change the set points. In my JK I could only set my TPMS to 29. Well it would keep coming on because with my 37's that's what I would run was 28-29psi. It would have been nice to set it to say 24 psi so that way I knew when I was losing air on the freeway.
I have the TPMS on my JL set to 28. The funny thing is that right now I"m running 25lbs in my 37's. Tonight I got in it and the front left tire was lit up in Red and it's telling me to put 37PSI in it. Every single tire is at 25, yet it only sees the front left as underinflated...lol
Cool that this guy is answering the problems listed. Biggest issue that prevents me from having any interest in the JL is START/STOP and the lane detection built-in rear tail lights.
Thanks for this. The LiteBrite video I saw when it came out, and this is a great follow up to see how they answered their comments. I’m in the market for a JL and many of these things have made me think - also add in the steering issue that has been widely reported. I also would have liked to hear his response about LiteBrite’s leaky windows/top. Is that also a “functional requirement”. 🤔
What a bunch of non-answers. He’s asked why is the radiator fan fighter jet loud, and his answer is simply to tell us a radiator fan has to keep the vehicle cool. Ok... that’s true for all cars. Why is the JL wrangler’s fan dramatically louder? That’s what you were asked, dude... not what does a fan do. Same thing with engine start/stop. Why is there no permanent disable? He skips right over that basically saying “yeah there’s no permanent disable.” Uh... could you at least say why? Government regulation? Laziness in the design department? Just name something.
Kyle T because it needs to keep a turbo motor cool while hammering on the pedal and spinning the tires climbing a mountain in the desert at a 1/4 mile an hour. You need a lot of airflow for that, which you don't get while crawling.
Eric Thompson mine has the 3.6 (non turbo) and is still by far the loudest radiator fan I’ve ever heard, including on JK and earlier wranglers. Now had the engineer in this video said “this is a great cooling fan... more CFM and greater expected durability than previous wranglers, but it also makes more noise as a result, which we figured the wrangler’s target audience would be ok with”, then that would have been a great answer. Instead he gave us a non answer.
Kyle T Used to be you could simply change out the 180 degree thermostat for a 160 degree version to keep the engine cooler. Worked most of the time except for real hot days at high elevation. Not an option for newer cars(since the 70s?) due to pollution control requirements I believe. Perhaps fully functional hood louvers would reduce amount of time fans need to run full speed?
Remember this is a real Engineer, not a slick marketing guy. He did great overall and explained the thought process/tradeoffs in the designs. He has to also not get in trouble, so he has to becareful on what he says. I am sure next time he will remember to throw in a few, "ya we can take that feedback into future considerations" so it does not sound overly "explain-away". Again, this is not filtered fluff, its a real engineer and he gave some great feedback. Kudos to Jeep to letting him speak and not shoving a PR spin guy at us The more we support this kinda real feedback, the more real stuff we see in the future.
“ meet standards”..... “drive in an appropriate manner”. Jeeps aren’t ment to be driven in an appropriate manner. He does not care about the complaints.
I hear that's why maps are superior to gps. I wouldn't know I navigate purely by the sun and stars. because magnets are magic and that's evil. I repent daily for once using a sextant.
If you seen her video then you would know the rocks they went over should never have been attempted with a stock jeep. The cross member got crushed do to stupidity not because lack of capability.
Yeah, they beat the shit outta that jeep. You can see Buddy driving is scared af shes gonna beat his ass when shes barking at him the whole trail. Shes got a strap on with his name on it for sure.
Holy Cross trail is rated 7-9 in the Jeep badge of honor app. Rubicon trail is rated a 10. Jeep tests on the rubicon trail so why is driving on a lower trail considered Stupidity
Brian Leyes was too careful answering these questions. If I were him, I would answer like this Question 1: The Window cracked too easily Answer: All wind shield crack if you drive too fast. Question 2: Why holes in skid plates? Answer: to save weight, to drain water and mud, and the structure is stronger believe it or not. Question 3: License plate location Answer: Do you see the big tire in the back? Where else can I put it. Question 4: Bumper buckle too easily Answer: It's plastic and it's just a cover. The actual bumper is inside. Question 5: Reinforce the tailgate Answer: Go get an aftermarket part. Question 6: TPMS tire monitoring system Answer: What kind of complaint is that? It is a warning system. Question 7: Auto Stop Start Answer: Find a way to disable it yourself. Question 8: Fender Clip Answer: Try not to hit it. Question 9: Fan too loud Answer: Too loud? turn it down. Question 10: Do you think your Jeep meet all the criteria? Answer: I really don't give a S.... what other people think. I love it because it's one of the coolest off road vehicle out there!!!
It sounds like the hard core off-road crowd isn't happy with the he blank canvas Jeep provides, yet what I'm hearing from the engineer is that the Jeep offers off-road capability but still makes a comfortable, safe vehicle on-road (which is where I would imagine most owners keep their Wrangler).
6:54 - Is that a dent where the bumper hit the body?? I agree with Lite Brite, a Rubicon should be a bit stronger than this. The rear bumper needs to go..
After seeing the rear bumper issues with LiteBrite and WayALife I would bypass the steel bumper upgrade and do the base model bumpers with an aftermarket upgrade soon to follow.
I gotta say, the License plate bracket, and the rear bumper buckling is something quite a few people on RU-vid and Forums have posted, certainly Lite Brite is not the first nor only one to say this and I totally understand that the chief engineer for the product is not going to go on record and say we screwed the pooch on this, but it will most definitely force them to look at options moving forward.
I don't own a Wrangler yet but I don't think people understand how hard it is to have a vehicle that can be great on the highway and off road all in one. If your looking for a strictly off road vehicle build a rig and if your looking for a great handling vehicle get a sports car. The magic in a Wrangler has always been having a balance on road and off road!
Wish you would have asked him about the terrible steering on the JL. Always correcting/over correcting on the highway and doesn't self center at slow speed. Incredibly annoying
I agree with this. It's the most horrible sloppy loose steering I have ever had to fight with. It's fine off road, but if you have to use the turnpike you are in for big trouble. I have called four different dealers to see what they know about how to tighten the steering. None of them know anything and all of them deny customer complaints. The most service I got was to have a technician take my JLUR for a trip around the black and return to me saying that it "drives like every other Jeep". This is my 4th Jeep and none of them swam down the road the way this one does.
Someone mentioned something about a software update Jeep did to fix that problem, another video I saw said a Rancho front track bar will fix wheel shimmy. Guess it depends on the exact issue you're referring to.
I enjoyed the video. Great answers......owning a jl sport I have two issues. I HATE the stop/start and feel I should be given the option to disable or enable it, not have to turn it off everytime I start the jeep. Secondly the play in the steering is quite bothersome and possibly even unsafe at higher speeds. It needs to wander less and be tightened up. Have yet to address this with the service department. Great Video as always. Thanks, Bob.
4 года назад
I like the answer for the fenders. I worked in a job where the item was being damaged to the point it was creating days of work to fix if it could be fixed. We then picked an easily accessible spot to lighten up the construction of said item. The repairs went from days to hours to minutes for repairs. The item because of it's heavy use was going to break or be damaged anyway so it's much better to make an easily accessible place to break then to beef it up to the point it's very difficult to use and the excess weight caused damage in other areas which was over the top expensive to repair and put it down for days and sometimes weeks instead of hours for repairs. Breaking a fender clip or clips is much better then bending up the body or destroying a fender. Good idea.
I give him credit for answering the criticisms on camera. I might be in the minority here, but I was satisfied with his answers. Most of these new JLs will not go offroad. This engineer knows this.
I took my brand new 2018 JKU Rubicon Recon edition on Chinaman's Gultch (2 weeks ago :) I am an experienced Off Road Driver. Yes, there was expected damage. The hooks that I have on both sides guard the bumper, so does the tow hitch. So, for fun, it is time for a new 4" lift etc...... Thanks Jeep.
Bald dude did not answer the question of why the cooling fan is so loud. Actually, he doesn't answers some of the questions. Is he really the chief engineer?
here are some good questions for the engineer i would like to ask about his project. how long would he expect it to last? does he expect it to last past 175,000 miles, even 200,000? would he trust it to be able to be handed down from a generation to the next? at what mileage would he personally stop trusting his jeep to take him on a cross-country trip with no rescue team and no money for expensive repairs? was his project designed to not last past a certain time so people will have to buy another? if any people from jeep are "listening to customers" and reading this please feel free to leave a response. thank you
I've seen a number of the Lite Brite RU-vid videos. I've seen the list of the five things they dislike the most about the new JL Wranglers. Before any credibility is given to Lite Brite's complaints, one needs to seriously consider the use the Lite Brite couple is giving to their (now second JL) Wrangler. As a Land Rover (series vehicle) owner of many years (1964 to 1993 or 1994), I can assure you I had many, many problems with the various Land Rovers I ever owned. Most of the problems I had with those vehicle were the direct result of the abnormal use (read abuse) I gave to those same vehicles. Flying through the air was once such abuse. When I purchased my first Jeep---a factory order in February 2012 (taking delivery in mid-April that year)---I was sixty-four years old. I dearly love my JK Unlimited Wrangler Rubicon. I've used my Rubicon off road, but I've done my best to not abuse it. The Lite Brite couple, in my opinion, abuses their JL Wrangler Rubicon. You folks from the Fast Lane Car, keep up the great work! Your advice on Jeeps, like that of the couple who maintain the Wayalife website, are absolutely tops in this business. As far as the new JL's are concerned, I've recently decided I'll not buy a diesel. But my wife and I will wait to order our JL until after the 2019's have gone into production. (Our 2012 Rubicon was shipped to Hawaii about a year and a half ago. I found it was "too much of a distraction" from my work researching and writing about Pearl Harbor to enable me to have at our base of operations in Utah. So we shipped Ruby to our second home in Hawaii.) Thanks again for your exceptionally fine RU-vid videos. Andy McKane, Springville, Utah & Ke Nani Kai, Maunaloa, Molokai, HI.
Jeeps, particularly Rubicons are meant to rock crawl. That's what LiteBrite is doing. Landcruisers aren't rock krawlers so its easy to see that a Landy owner would consider it abuse. Let's be honest, Landy's aren't reliable enough to rock crawl...What TFL is doing isn't really even four wheeling. it's scenic driving.
Great point, Bob. I've broken many---way too many---rear axle shafts on Land Rovers (series IIA & III vehicles) over the years. (A similar part on the P-6 2000 & 3500S Rover cars, the splined stub shaft that connected the rear half shafts with the differentials) also had miserable reliability. And so, too, did mainshafts and layshafts in Land Rover transmissions. So reliability on Land Rovers left much to be desired. All the problems my vehicles had were not always the result of owner abuse. Hopefully the next generation Defender will be a far more reliable vehicle than the vehicles before it (Series and Defenders). Please don't ask how many rusted out Land Rover chassis frames I've seen over the years! Perhaps the folks in Solihull will get their acts together now that they are owned by the folks at Tata, a former "colony" just like those of us in the U.S.A.
while a rubicon is built for off roading, rock crawl included. it is also built for daily use, for families. as the jeep chief engineer said they have designed the jeep to function with all that in mind. and sometimes fokes will step outside of that normal use.
Bob Lionel you mixed up landcruisers and land rovers. I’m not sure which of them you’re referring to but suggesting land cruisers aren’t reliable is hilarious.
Love to speak with the MOPAR man that designed the MOPAR lift with FOX shocks. The kit will not allow for the Jeep to be put back into supplied alignment specs. No track bar consideration so the front and rear diffs are miss-aligned by 5/8 of an inch. The control arms supplied are to short. Only through the use of an aftermarket front track bar and rear bracket (neither supplied) can you get it close to drivable without having a caster angle negative. The use of 3rd gen Dodge lower cam bolts (16mm) with modification will allow for proper caster which will allow the Jeep to not handle like a snake with over sensitive steering. In case you're wondering... yes we are a shop and we've configured loads of these machines for dealer builds in Ontario Canada. We're now fixing many of the dealer built machines that have come back to the dealer with negative reviews on drivability. Next we are taking the 2.5 FOX shocks and re-valving for a more suitable off/on road experience with the help of TMR customs.
So people can get some perspective on Lite Brite's use of their JL Wrangler Rubicon I would suggest watching these two videos. Any vehicle can be abused and broken...but this is not how the vast majority of owners are going to utilize their vehicle. For the small percentage that are...that's what the aftermarket is for. Don't like Start/Stop...I don't either. It was done to meet Corporate/EPA mileage numbers. But it's easy to disable, takes less than 1 minute...not a big deal. With over 200K miles on an FJ Cruiser, I'm no stranger to chips and cracks on an upright windshield. Hopefully, by November or December, the Gorilla Glass version of the windshield should be available for both JK and JL models. Here's the videos: We Take Our 2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU Rubicon to HOLY CROSS to Test the 38s! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HUNvYzEixIY.html We Take our 2018 JLU Rubicon Back to Moab & Finally Smash a Door! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RPp1ICpzkBo.html
Gotta give the engineer some slack. The Wrangler is essentially the hardest vehicle in the world to redesign each generation due to the immense pressure of trying not to piss off the most loyal and demanding community of owners/future owners. Each generation Jeep must make the Wrangler more advanced, more refined (some say not to but the natural progression of things demand it), more features, better on road while getting better off road, etc... All while adhering to the required Wrangler look, meeting all government regulations which is harder for Wrangler than any other vehicle, and so on. They have to change everything and make it all better while keeping it traditionally the same. The engineer is mostly correct in that most of the design choices are largely necessary or is what can reasonably be done on a mass market vehicle that must function as the daily driver that most people use it for, commonly as a family vehicle. Like it or not.
I agree with the crossmembers. You can crush those damn things easy. Lite Brite though was ignorant in that video... Like how much do you want out of a STOCK vehicle with just tires added.. They went hardcore on that thing and complained when it crushed things. The bumper has to do with a bolt head on the passenger side I think. When the bumper flexes on a hit. it puts a scratch on the sheet metal.
People get on my nerves though that want a Jeep with good fuel mileage... Like jeep now has to design a lighter, weaker vehicle because all the jeep fans that DONT off-road and use it as a grocery getter get good fuel mileage. Kinda ridiculous.
Jeep has to meet EPA fuel economy standards, same as every other manufacturer. So it isn’t “Jeep fans” who are demanding those economy numbers, it’s the politicians and bureaucrats in Washington.
Steve Sarette I agree, but that only that, Jeep needs to compete against all the new fuel economy standards from the competition in a world where gas is really expensive.
Darthen X : Yes, that’s true too. And competition is a good thing, as is higher fuel economy. (Why needlessly waste fuel? Even if you don’t care about the cost, who wants to keep running to the gas station all the time?) Still, I’d way rather see Jeep responding to competitive pressures than to government regulatory demands. My guess is, most of the more annoying compromises that Jeep made in the JL were driven by government regulation (that stupid auto-stop “feature”) than by the things they thought consumers actually want.
Point taken. A Jeep's number one concern should be off road capability. While it does get respectable mpg, a Jeep is NOT in competition with Honda Fit, Prius or any other mpg-focused vehicle. We have MORE than enough of those.
Should be a politician. Smooth very smooth. Not even one question did he say "well we'll have to look into that" not very comforting at all. Jeep do something about this!
Well if all you say is it meets our requirements, and if you give a subtle glare when after market improvements are mentioned, don't expect us to be happy.
What about the door leaks? She plainy said it in the video but didn't say it was a hate tho because they didn't know if it was because of something they did. BUT it's been a case in more than just thier jeep
Nathan Flowers really think that has do do with the twisting done to body during the serious off roading. Eventually those doors are not going to fit and seal as well.
Before you grill this guy alive, please remember if he goes too hard he'll never see his "Fiat of America" desk again. Please also remember these were bad nitpicks from people so dumb they asked 9 questions and called it 5 in the thumbnail. Have a good day.
I can accept all but on answer. The fan. Do a second interview in August after you have driven the Wrangler and keep it running and then conduct the interview. The fan is excessively loud.
It's good to see what I will call a nuts and bolts video on criticisms related to the latest Jeep rendition.. I have never owned a Jeep because I have found that it was always shy of what I envisioned was needed for me in my lifestyle. The vehicle had to be a daily driver, a towing vehicle, a camping vehicle, a hunting vehicle and a 4x4 that could travel long distances. So what has filled these requirements has been several 2500 4x4 diesel trucks. Large enough, comfortable enough, fuel efficient enough, a camper - when needed, capable of carrying a minimum of 4 adults. And something I have been able to work on. Now I've just recently tested two Jeeps back to back as a comparison to themselves and each other - so to speak. These 2018 Jeep Wranglers were both new and one was the older style with a Golden Eagle package. The other Jeep was a new Trail Edition badged vehicle with the 2 L turbo - but not a Rubicon version. The Golden Eagle package 3.6 L was a simple but nice concept but it vibrated a fair bit, and I wasn't sure what was causing this issue on a brand new vehicle. When driving it it felt like I was piloting a boat in the tiller position. It wasn't horrible - but it was not overly pleasant either. The Golden Eagle package was ok but it didn't ride well enough to deserve paying the new vehicle asking price (in Canadian $). I wanted to like it - but the vibration during the ride sent a bell off in my mind and this factor wasn't able to convince me that it would serve my needs for years to come.... I asked the dealer for the best discounted price - and while it was the older JK generation of Jeep Wrangler... And it is was discounted - the ride wasn't convincing me to buy it for the price. Now to be fair when I drove the 2018 JL with the 2.0 turbo. It was a step up in ride quality over the JK Golden Eagle vehicle I tested.. I've done enough 4 wheeling to know what will work for me an how I will derive pleasure out of my ride, and how I will try to make it last The new JL Jeep has improved enough to perk my interest in it, and I feel that it now meets my most vital criteria for the ride factor. Only time will tell - if I can move from a 2500 diesel to a 4 door gas Jeep. So it seems I have an option now..
This was a great issue, but being in engineering, engineers have a hard time sometimes explaining things in a non dismissive tone. Engineers do not (Usually) design for just one purpose. Every component is a compromise. What are the laws and regulations we have to meet. What are the customers expectations (This is usually a balance between owners who do vastly different things with the same vehicle). What are our tooling concessions? What are the BOM costs? Can it be built on an assembly line with ease? Can it be serviced in the Field? What are potential warranty costs? (this one impacts where you focus your design budget to minimize Warranty claims) All these things are a balance. I agree with Lite Brite's complaints for how they use the vehicle, however their is regulation issues, epa mileage demands, NVH concessions and a whole host of reasons for the vehicle to be designed the way it was. I used to complain about a lot of things on vehicles, until I started designing them and realized the way it happens. You honestly can not please 100% of your customers so you focus on the balance of needs.
I agree with a lot of your points though. When he said Auto Stop Start is disabled in 4 Low, my question is, why not 4 High as well? Are we worried about that .001% better fuel economy when we have to be in 4WD? I think if they fixed that it would be beneficial. I hate Stop Start, but I know they are just reaching to meet fuel economy standards now and they are using all the tools they have available.
Gorilla glass, YES. Flat windshield, though, is something we have to live with, and that's just the deal. Sidplates...few will tear up the bottom of a Jeep like Litebrite. Besides, theirs did far better than I would have believed. Everything is a compromise. Litebrite's experience talked me out of adding skid plates...license plate bracket...Again, FEW do the EXTREME things Litebrite does. Litebrite needs an aftermarket bumper...Tailgate, well, it is stronger than the JK, as is. I've got a 35 on it with no issue. 37...Get a bracket or a bumper...TPMS, get a Tazer JL. Fixed...ESS, Tazer JL, fixed...Fenders, I'll take the clip breaking...Fan, keep that baby cool and crank up the Alpine, solved...I honestly have found it easy to change anything on the JL I feel the need to change. Great video, and GREAT job, Chief Engineer!!!! Thank you for the best Jeep yet!
Wayoflife had similar issues with the rear bumper - and it was not 'extreme' off roading. Simple thing was that the bumper hit bottom and flexed enough to actually contact the body and do damage. And they had similar issue with the license plate bracket. They also showed the Tazer JL and how you can turn off those annoying things you don't want on. And yes, some of the answers were kind of 'beating around the bush' answers. Saying it's because of Litebrite's extreme off roading is a bit of a cop-out - bet lots of people have had similar issues doing trails in Moab.
Amen to your comment, "GREAT job, Chief Engineer!!!!" He did a fantastic job in answering the questions. Those of us who want to modify our Wranglers (whether Sport, Sahara, or Rubicon), can easily do so. Any auto manufacturer has many parameters they've got to meet with everything they build. Having driven JL's half a dozen times or so since this past January or February, I think Jeep has done a fantastic job in bringing the JK into the next generation with the JL. Even at age 70, I can't wait until the day my wife and I take delivery of our next Wrangler!! Thank you, Mr. Chief Engineer! And thanks to the workers at the two Jeep Wrangler plants in Toledo, too.
Principal Skinr I have a 2004 tj Sahara and it came with factory skids that are flat no holes and my windshield has no cracks and I take it every weekend to my off road spot, never broke , and it out performs this 2018 hunk of scrap metal any day
