Fixing a C64 with NO SOUND! Plus... Why does the SwinSID Nano for the Commodore 64 Sound so AWFUL?

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** This video is kindly supported by www.PCBWay.com - My choice for for high quality PCB manufacturing, 3D printing and more! I thank them, and Elaine Hu for their wonderful support! **
In this video we look at a Commodore 64 Breadbin that has LOST it's voice. After some investigation we find the issue. We also try a modern replacement for the SID chip... a SwinSID Nano... and it SOUNDS TERRIBLE! What have I done wrong?
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27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 90

@sx64man Год назад

Unfortunately the Swinsid does not support paddles and there are a lot of audio artifacts - so you will see the error in the diag. Armsid or Backsid are better options IMHO.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Thanks for this. I’m a noob with SID replacement options and just grabbed a cheap one from eBay to try. I’m glad this sound and reaction are “normal” though, and not my error.

@waynekeenansvideos Год назад

SwinSID doesn't support the paddles (or audio thru) hence the controller error. Get an ARMSID.

@robertsissco2439 Год назад

I did a C64 build with all modern parts (I just got the J-CIA's two weeks ago) and started with a SwinSID as I didn't even know about the ARMSID. As soon as I learned about that, I bought one and swapped them out. Since I don't do a lot with paddles, I added to my sparechips bin in case I do have a SID that gives up the ghost.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Does the ARMSID have the phantom notes?

@networkg 2 месяца назад

Best replacement now is probably the Sidkick Pico or the Armsid.

@IDPhotoMan Год назад

Having about every kind of SID, my rankings are: 1. FPGASID 2. ARMSID 3. BackSID 4. SwinSID Ultimate

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

This is a super useful list! Thank you so much! I’m guessing there’s a cost premium though?

@borayurt66 Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff My vote is on ARMSID when it comes to the cost/benefit approach. It works well (I may say 95% accurate, others may say 99%), but it is a very well backed up commercial product. It is constantly being developed in the software side and the users can download improved firmwares to upgrade their ARMSIDs. Firmware upgrades are done without removing the ARMSID from the board, or even without opening up the C64. It is done by a software that can be run by the C64 via a real floppy disk, or your personal choice of a FDD emulator. And there is another software to make some settings to the ARMSID (choose preset 6581 and 8580 modes, even configure your ARMSID to sound anyway you like) FPGASID is the expensive choice because FPGA's have become ridiculously expensive these days, but I hear it is very very good too. BackSID, I don't have enough information to comment on. SwinSID Ultimate seems to be unobtainium, there are photos of it, test and review videos of it, but no where to buy it. And the ones that are being tested seem like pre-release prototypes with wires botched, stuff attached on with hot melt glue etc.

@Aeoringas Год назад

Needs an ARMSID, a way better replacement than the one you used here.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Thanks! I grabbed a “cheap thing” from eBay with no knowledge. I’m keen to try an ARMSID!

@RyanMercer Год назад

I'm not a fixer. I break things.

@catriona_drummond Год назад

but do you move fast, too? ;)

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Mostly wind, Ryan?

@RyanMercer Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff stop talking to my wife.

@KAPTKipper Год назад

For me the big issue is the winSID doesn't do POT inputs, so no mice and other devices. I have 6 busted SIDs. They seem to die on the shelf even.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Yeah. They definitely die in storage. It’s happened to one I know worked and they the channels disappeared on power on.

@KAPTKipper Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff Replaced mine with ARMSIDs, these are amazing, worth the few extra dollars

@Ojref1 Год назад

There are a few other options for fpga SIDs. Those particular chips made by MOS were just horrible and probably should have never been produced in such a state.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

They do seem a bit flakey. I’m excited to compare some of the modern replacements though now!

@deborahberi3249 9 месяцев назад

My SwinSID Firmware is the "Lazy Jones" version and it made a good difference is a number of games and a great test is the game of the same name as the fix, lol. -Mark.

@robertsissco2439 Год назад

I had Retro Rewind's C64 Diag harness from before, and yea, it is top notch stuff. Even the harness cases are 3D printed in a way that they feel solid and strong

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

The 3D printing is excellent quality! It’s a great tool

@RobA500 Год назад

I don’t think the SwinSID offers full control port emulation so that’s why you get the errors.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

It would seem so Rob. Served me right drunken eBaying heh!

@redhawk668 8 месяцев назад

SwinSID is based on an ATMega88 chip, which is an 8 bit microcontroller. So, it's not doing a bad job, actuallu. Due to this, it doesn't the paddle inputs, which are analog. If a C64 has a bad SID, it's a lowcost solution to have sound again. I've built a few myself. They are quite easy to build.

@DavePoo2 Год назад

SwinSID is basically an 8580 emulator, not a 6581 emulator. And due to its slower lower cost hardware, it does the best it can.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

This explains a lot. What’s your preference?

@DavePoo2 Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff I think it more of a case of what you have got and what you've got working. SwinSID is certainly better than no SID at all. I did a comparison vid which includes it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-D-47IhQSlCM.htmlsi=vs9BEPOs3m4OXzVp

@robertblom6050 Год назад

❤ love that MSX Carnivore2 cartridge in the background!

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Video coming soon. I have a really beaten up MSX2 from Japan to look at!

@d_vibe-swe Год назад

I like Armsid. I did a detailed comparison between the Armsid and the 8580 Sidchip on my channel.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Great video! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2d6gAuohKq0.htmlsi=GT19JNfMkToLJC5E

@d_vibe-swe Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuffThank you :)

@aner_bda Год назад

Wow that SID chip is pretty much as old as I am!

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

You spelled “cool and vintage” wrong!

@tommyovesen Год назад

PotX and Y are analog signals that the SwinSID (and others) don't support. So the diag test will fail because of that. But the bad sound was a little strange..

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Yes, I’m glad it’s not a computer error though. Sone others have pointed out the SwinSID has audio artifacts.

@borayurt66 Год назад

Apart from SwinSID Nano, all of the other plug-in SID replacements support paddle reading.

@tommyovesen Год назад

Ok, thanks for the correction :) @@borayurt66

@borayurt66 Год назад

@@tommyovesen Yeah, also the bad sound is a SwinSID Nano thing. It is not a good SID replacement in any way, just an incomplete, abandoned project that people take advantage of by copying and selling on Ebay etc.

@DJChol Год назад

I can recommend the Wiha Chip Lifter. Better than a screwdriver.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

I have the screwdrivers, so I’ll look into it. My previous chip lifters have been cheap.

@Garrett1980 Год назад

Does pin 28 have to have over 12v to operate the 6581 properly or would 11.xx do? I thought I had a bad 6581 but a replacement ARMSID isn’t recognised during the configuration prg/setup. Great video, thanks

@MarkFixesStuff 11 месяцев назад

12v is the ideal voltage but due to voltage drops across the circuit it's rare to see it "bang on". I don't know anything about the ARMSID. It might be worth trying a known good PSU?

@ZettDarkstone Год назад

good vid. there was a nice msx c2 cartridge in it.!.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

I’m planning on using that soon! I still have to work out how to format the CF card and then there will be a video !

@NozomuYume Год назад

A voiceless SID isn't much use, but I wonder about SIDs where the pots have died but the voices still work -- I wonder if there's enough call for a project to make a board that implements the pots but still passes the voices to the part of the SID that still works.

@robertsissco2439 Год назад

There is actually a blog post somewhere someone designed a board to do this. It would just be getting it printed.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

I wonder how long until the rest of the SID rots though?

@NozomuYume Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff As I understand it the pots are mostly separate and the reason they die so much is that they're exposed on the joystick ports with zero protection against static.

@ownpj Год назад

Just put your POTless SID as the second SID in a dual/stereo SID adaptor.

@NozomuYume Год назад

@@ownpj Oh wow that's such a simple, good idea. =D

@digitalarchaeologist5102 Год назад

Ha, so interesting. I ended up getting a chip puller because I was so bad with a flat blade, especially where there wasn't much room. For me it really works well, but honestly whatever works for anyone.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

I was expecting a bit more “engagement” surrounding the chip puller 😂!

@digitalarchaeologist5102 Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff So was I, but the next one should be a philips head - that would be impressive 🙂

@kmolder9499 Год назад

Another video! Nice!

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Thanks for watching again. Another video same time next week!!

@borayurt66 Год назад

Mark, you being a RU-vid content creator that focuses on fixing stuff mainly retro computers, I don't think you watch enough channels of the same genre. It is quite common knowledge that SwinSID Nano is an abandoned project because it did not succeed. It quicky became very apparent that The MCU used was not enough to emulate the mighty SID in an acceptable level, this and some ego wars has stopped this project in its tracks without ever being finalized. Apart from being a terrible emulator, it can't do the analog pot reading that the original SID was tasked in a C64. That's why you are receiving that error. Despite this, people are still copying this project and selling on eBay etc places to the people that does not do their research before buying. The only thing a SwinSID is good for is to test whether something is terribly wrong with a C64 board that may kill a genuine SID, or one of the better emulators when powered on.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Thanks! This is my first foray into SID replacements. The SwinSID nano was a drunk eBay purchase. I’ve learned a lot from my viewers here!! Thanks for this great history!

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

(I am a Spectrum guy really… shhhhhh 😂 )

@borayurt66 Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff Well, although commendable, that's no excuse for not doing your homework now, is it? 😂 My first computer was also a Spectrum 48K Rubberkey. In fact I still have it in perfectly working condition (took some working) along with other Spectrums. I too have a special place in my heart for Speccies, but I do own other 8bits, like various C64's, even an Amiga 500+ that takes me to the world of 16bit whenever I feel like it.😁

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

@@borayurt66 well done for keeping the rubber keyed beauty going! With the Commodore machines I discover along with my viewers help so you have to forgive me. It’s all for fun and discussion in the short videos ;)

@sanjyuu2298 8 месяцев назад

Swinsid is an old device not developed anymore, over 10 years ago it was one of the only options and first aproach to make a replacement, there was an approach to make Swinsid on ARM, but developer stopped at some point. It shouldn't be sold anymore, it's almost a scam, as there are better alternatives now. Swinsid Ultimate on the other hand is something made by a person who took original swinsid and modded it, propably hard to get now.

@Doombrain Год назад

It’s biggest issue is it’s not in the bin.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Don’t hold back mate. Say what you think! 😂

@MarcKloos Год назад

No, the biggest issue with that micro is that it's a Commie 64

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Oh Marc! The 8bit war is over… no?

@MarcKloos Год назад

@@MarkFixesStuff Wel'll settle this after school hours on the playground!

@emmettturner9452 Год назад

The only SwinSID with proper analog controller input (paddles, mouse) is the SwinSID Ultimate so, yes, that is why the error came back.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

Thanks for the confirmation :) it’s a relief that the issue isn’t the c64 as well

@borayurt66 Год назад

That's not correct. All the other SID replacements do paddle reading perfectly. The only one that can't do it is the SwinSID Nano.

@emmettturner9452 Год назад

@@borayurt66 Back when I selected the SwinSID Ultimate and got on the waiting list I did so because I was told it was the only one with paddle support. I was even researching to see if I could use my faulty SID for paddles with a SwinSID for sound.

@baxtardboy Год назад

Mark mate if I were a billionaire I'd pay you to present me with a video like this every morning at 7am, only I'd ask for more manky double entendres. I know you can do at least ONE of those things without requiring a billionaire sugar daddy.

@MarkFixesStuff Год назад

If I were a billionaire I’d do this anyway, but pack in the job. Don’t forget patrons get exclusive manky vids btw.