Support this channel on Patreon: / 8bitguy1 Download software and other goodies on my website: www.the8bitguy.com In this episode I take a look at the Sequential Music Mate keyboard for the Commodore 64.
You probably already have seen this, but I got curious and found this page of info: www.mycommodore64.com/2011/09/14/sequential-circuits-musicmate-1984/
That "other" Keyboard shown on the software package is in fact a synthesizer, the Sequential Circuits "Prophet 600", a little brother of the well known Prophet 5. :)
@@mrz80 that and the Roland "Jupiter 6" I think they came out at the same time and when they first showed midi at NAMM they demonstrated by connecting the Jupiter 6 and the prophet 600 together
@@mrz80 that and the Roland "Jupiter 6" I think they came out at the same time and when they first showed midi at NAMM they demonstrated by connecting the Jupiter 6 and the prophet 600 together
The joystick port also contains the paddle port. Maybe they encode the pitch as a resistance against that paddle input. Rerun your program with registers 54297 and 54298!
Or it has a handshake from c64 to it so simple peak couldn't detect jack. Since they have copy protection on disk - i think they were afraid that competition would dissect it. That might be the reason also.
To test that - recommend starting from arduino (since it has much faster cpu) - you can build a basic kempston input there (sega genesis to arduino adaptor is a good place to start). Then - just blast serial out with all the possible values from 0 to last one then start listening after each number. If that's a handshake - after correct handshake is given - keyboard should send acknowledgement.
Crimson Sunrise It IS a Prophet 600. I have one just like it, great synth. The manuals for early MIDI SCI keyboards specifically talk about the C64 as a companion for home recording. Side note, the joystick port is translated to MIDI data with that dummy keyboard.
We love that you've quit your day job, David! :D Sequential is best known for their Prophets. And that's one of them you saw on the back of the software package.
In one of his 8-Bit Guy videos around Christmas or shortly after new year's. As of February this year, this is his fulltime job and we can expect a significant increase in videos. So remember to let those ads play and support him on Patreon, it's all for all our benefit in the end. :)
Sequential - the makers of the Prophet synth - is Dave Smith' old company. He was one of the brains behind the development of midi which basically sends a digital signal over two lines, I would guess that this keyboard does that too over two of the joystick lines.
Just a random company "Sequential", never really amounted to anything. Especially their attempt at creating a universal communication standard for musical instruments failed miserably. I think it was called MIDI or something.
The C64 Joystick port isn't just digital, it has an analogue component connected to the SID. I expect the keyboard is nothing more than a potential divider circuit split across the keys, and the ADC in the SID chip turns that voltage into a value of 0 - 255, more than enough for 32 keys. Audio samplers also used this port, because the SID did the actual sampling.
@@grahampickard3325 not really because in such case it will only detect 1 key push down and it is polyphonic, it will actually require some sort of interface
Couldn't there be three different 5-bit values being driven? Seems like quite a coincidence that there are five digital inputs and a very unusual 32-key layout.
Sequential made some of the most legendary synths of all time.. prophet 5 and pro 1 to name a few. Dave smith of sequential circuits then went on to develop the MIDI standard and designed the kong wave station amongst other famous synths for other manufacturers. He is at present smashing it out of the ball park making his own synths again, look up dave smith instruments and see for yourselves!
Thanks David for the amazing videos you produce! I normally don't command on RU-vid, but I love watching your videos. Keep up the good work! Greetings from Fryslân, The Netherlands!
8-bit guy - you forgot that joy port includes also 2 pots - 2 ADCs, which can be used for keys decoding using extra resistors ladder. Can you check also POTX/POTY paddle registers when you press Music Mate keys?
I was thinking of the paddle inputs, but seeing as there is no activity just makes this a complete mystery as to how this works over the joystick port.
The second program seems to actually be a diagnostics for your sid chip and if something is defective. In other words it's there to be diagnostics program from you keyboard and sid chip. Your welcome if you see this 8-bit.
I sub to a lot of channels and find a lot of them to put out too much content I don't really care about so I skip them until I see one I'm interested in. Your channels are different though. I always watch your videos as soon as I see they're up. I think it's the passion you have for the material. Keep up the good work.
When you played that swinth tune... it brought me back good memories, like last week when I used it to test the speaker on a 1802 monitor I found at school.
From Sequential Circuits, famous for keyboards like the Prophet-5. Oh, and this ... 1:14 ... that's an artist rendition of a Sequential Circuits Prophet-600.
This is my favourite video you have done so far, not because it's a good product but because I have known of Sequential Circuits since a kid, had many of their products and even the newer ones Dave Smith did, and never knew this existed! I gotta get me some retrobright :D
I love your CD BTW! I have been looking for music like this for a while that gives that nostalgia feeling, but still very moving. I LOVE IT!! Everyone should own a copy!
David, If I were into the Commodore line of computers, you would be like a demigod. And even though I'm not it's still really awesome that you do so much for the Commodore community!
C0deH0wler Glad you like it, you can find all songs here: soundcloud.com/eox-studios/sets/all-songs Some of them are also on the CD David is selling on his website. :)
Yes. A bit dissapointed to hear David (host of an 80s keyboard channel) call it "A company called Sequential" :-) and not just breifly mention their legend.
Yes! I was baffled that he didn't go in depth about Sequential Circuits. It's a great company. I bet he would be able to interview Dave Smith or someone from DSI about this keyboard.
I don't even have that big of a care for keyboards but I love computers and retro technology and you manage to make all this interesting for me, and hell maybe I'd get into keyboards because of this.
Here in 2020. I had always wanted this keyboard when I first saw it in Run magazine as a kid in the mid 1980's. I was also beginning to get into synths as I started to read Keyboard magazine at the same time, although I didn't own any synths. The C64 was a fundamental subtractive synthesizer due to the SID so plugging this keyboard into the C64 would complete that interface to become a synth piano keyboard machine. Unfortunately, it cost a lot for me as a kid, so eventually never got it. In highschool, for a finals project in computer class, I developed a program that showed off the C64 as a live-action performance synth, using the keyboard as a multi-touch keyboard (for chords), with paddles & joysticks as additional controllers to affect the synth SID sounds, such as behave like pitch & modulation wheels. Imagine had I had this Sequential keyboard along with it, it would have been a better live demo setup shown in front of the class (all of us had to show their own projects). I still have my C64 although it's in storage right now. Same with that finals synth project, it's buried somewhere in my piles of floppies. For the SID, I was able to make a dual-SID setup in the late 1980's, so that it could play 3-6 voices. Anyway, the MusicMate would not only have been great to use as a music recording tool but also for live performance. Perhaps turn it into a keytar for use as a lead synth... although I have no idea how long the key contacts inside would last because it was designed cheaply using foam (sponge) instead of traditional springs & perhaps the electrical contacts would not have lasted & give out after many stage performances.
I really like all of your videos because you don't have any god awful characters or dumbass skits. Intro is short and sweet and the videos are informative. Kudos buddy.
The Atari/Commodore joystick port can be used for some rather unusual things. Atari designed an interface (the XEP-80) for their 8-bit computers that plugs into the joystick port and provides an 80-column text and 320x200 graphics video output and a parallel printer port!
Hi, really like both of your Channels. If there is no digital input, it will use the analog Paddle Input. Its located in the SID chip on $D419 $D41A via Joy-port, try too Peek 54297 or 54298. There are 255 value each Register, so 255^2 Keys possible :D
@1:11 is the Prophet 600 from 1982, the first commercial synth with MIDI interface. Another Sequential model that made use of the C64 as a sequencer was the Six~trak, one of the first multi timbral MIDI synths.
Wow. I had no idea that Sequential Circuits created stuff for the c64. Nice video David.
7 лет назад
That's not just some keyboard they show on the box, that is a Prophet 600. Successor of the legendary Prophet 5, one of the first polyphonic synthesizers that didn't way a ton. Sequential Circuits is a well-known brand in the synthesizer world, mostly for the Prophet 5 and 600. Real good synths, never knew they were in the commodore business as well. Nice oddity!
*My Speculation* A 5 wire connection; green and white = 5 Vdc and ground; orange = serial data (out); two blacks = attn and sync clock (in). The 40 pin mystery circuit is most likely a small piggybacked PCB with a matrix encoder and an 8 bit parallel to serial shift register (given the IC tech at the time). CIA 1 location 56322 and 56323 set the data direction on the 4 joystick lines for each port so this could be set so the CIA outputs on the two black wires "attn and clock". This would be why your reading the joystick port showed no activity since you were not sending the signals out on the black wires. It would take an oscilloscope to determine which black wire was the attn and which is the clock. You could write an interrupt patch to read the port and out put to the screen, and install it before running the keyboard program - it may not work if the program uses the interrupt itself to read the port and over-rights your vector address.
All of your videos are fantastic but I always find myself wanting more demonstration of the actual product lol take that as you will, your keyboard skills fascinate me lol
The "Mystery chip" looks like an I²C chip. Back in the 1980s Phillips came up with I²C to be able to control various stuff inside a TV or VCR. The internal controller of the TV or VCR can communicate with everything using only 2 portpins over the I²C bus. There are many chips available, e.g. tuner chips, memory (EEPROM for channel programming), OSD chips motor controllers, IR remote controllers and the like. There are also I/O port extenders available which work like a VIA (or CIA) but need only 2 pins to communicate with a CPU. Since the data line of I²C is bidirectional, you need 2 I/O pins and a diode on the C64. It looks like there is a diode in the path of one of the wires to the chip. So all you need for the keyboard is: +5V GND CLOCK DATA (2 lines for the C64 Joyport) RESET The mystery remains which of the many, many I²C chips could it be? The port extenders don't need their own clock, this explains the lack of anything else. The chip works with the clock line when sending data. When no data is exchanged, the chip does nothing. Nowadays you would use something like the MAX6955 which is a LED display driver with integrated key input capability. So you could add LED displays or single LEDs on the keyboard and have something to scan the keys in. But while popular for the Arduino, this chip was not available in the past century.
Quite an intriguing device, I never knew the joystick ports could be used as a serial interface, but then it has been many years since I last played with a C64... :)
SEQUENTIAL was established by Dave Smith. He has been creating synthesizers on Dave Smith Instruments NOW! This is retro hybrid synth. It is very interesting. Thanks for upload!
If they do a resistor ladder and use the analog input of joystick port they can use as keys as the adc resolution allow. I did that to use a matrix keyboard on a arduino using analogInput instead of using a ton of digital pins.
David! Next time you encounter an ABS crack, try this! I had a screw "tube" on the bottom half of a cartridge that broke off right at the base. I dabbed just a little bit of *acetone* on both sides with a q-tip, lined up the two parts and pressed them together for a few minutes. I felt the break "set", as if the two pieces wouldn't shift anymore, so I let go. I then waited a couple more hours and it now honestly feels as solid as if it was never broken at all, because as far as the plastic goes, it's one piece again.
"Made by a company called Sequential." -- LMFAO I died. This is Sequential Circuits you are talking about. They made the Prophet synthesizers. Some of the most loved in history... Awesome video as always. :)
Hi Dave, the synth on the frontcover is the fabulous Sequential Circuit SIX-TRAK. Another synth made to work with the C64 is the Ensoniq Mirage, the surfboard sampler
The hardware to read the keys is a shift register thing. Two of the joystick port lines are used for power and ground, two others are used to select the key to read, and one is used to read the state of the desired key (on or off). One of the selection lines resets the desired key to the first one (far left - F), and the other moves the desired key up a semitone for each off-to-on transition. Code has to modify the ports to provide power to the appropriate line, to set up the two selection lines as outputs, and to set the lowest bit as the input for reading the key state. Here's a quick BASIC program to scan once and display the currently pressed keys: 10 POKE 56323,12 20 POKE 56321,0 25 FOR M=1 TO 32 30 POKE 56321,8 40 P=PEEK(56321) 50 PRINT M,P 60 POKE 56321,12 70 NEXT M 90 POKE 56323,0 I disassembled the MusicWare code to learn this. Also, I recently posted G64 images of the 4 optional MusicWare packages and scans of the manuals to the Internet Archive: archive.org/details/sequentialmusicmate I've also written some proof-of-concept code to get this keyboard working with an Atari 2600. I assume this keyboard will work with most computers and game systems that have Atari 2600-compatible joystick ports, as long as you can control which lines are inputs and which are outputs. Of course, someone would need to write some interesting software to actually use it! I ordered this keyboard and the Sound Maker software when I was in high school. I actually used it live in a local rock band (Desert Ice) for a while before I bought a Roland Juno-106 synthesizer. The SID chip was really noisy…
That keyboard on the box looks to be a Sequential Circuits Prophet series keyboard. SCI (Sequential Circuits) made some serious big time synthesizers in the eighties, very desirable and powerful devices in their time.
its easy to play 32 keys by just using 5 signals. you just gotta use binary signals. 00001,00010,00011... but the problem is that there would be no 0 left. can they possibly use any of the other pins just to send the signal that a key is pressed or something?
8-Bit Keys Easy. You don't send them all at once, you just tell the computer a certain key is pressed or released, and the computer keeps track. For 32 keys you'd need 5 bits + 1 for pressed/released, which seems fine for the joystick port.
jort93z Sorry for the spam. Good point, maybe it's sent in two frames in rapid succession? First is the key, second is the state? It could even be that the pc keeps track if it assumes all keys to be released when the program starts (easy to test this theory by holding down a key when running the program)
It's probably somewhere here in the 669 comments, Steve Smith is the founder of sequential circuits and one of the fathers of the midi spec. He now runs Dave Smith instruments. He's been doing this stuff for a long time.
I it's has not already been said but the picture on the disk box is of a prophet 600, sequential/sequential circuits were a manufacturer of professional keyboard synthesizers/samplers in the late 70's to the mid 80's starting with the Prophet 5, the first semi-reasonably priced polyphonic synthesizer with memories.They went on to co design MIDI with Roland (they were the main players in the MIDI standard) and making a range of keyboards from budget synthesizers to sampling keyboards.
Sequential Circuits are those same innovative folks who gave us the legendary Pro One & Prophet 5 Subtractive Analogue Synthesizers! ( see Dave Smith )
Hey, great vids! I really enjoy your channels. This channel got me thinking about all my old keyboards I uses to have as a kid, and I remember one old cheap Yamaha midi keyboard I used to have (sorry, can't remember the model). I had replaced the original power adapter with a universal adapter at some point, and eventually I figured out that if I set the voltage on the adapter to less than what was recommended I could trigger the keyboard to enter a funky mode with a bunch of different sounds and drum effects that normal, and everything would behave differently....have you ever run into anything like this?
