I think Karen having a Tyranitar as her ace could have an interesting tie in to her philosophy. Larvitar is weak and can be difficult to train up, but she sticks with it because it’s her favorite. In the end, her pokemon only becomes “strong” because she loved it
I would love to see Karen with a whole team of Pokemon that are difficult to train because they start so weak and become monsters Keep Umbreon (because friendship) and have a team of Magikarp-esc final evolutions
@@jakelee5456 personally, I hated them as a kid, but I love them now. I'm working on a big fangame & one of the popular strats I have for ninja npcs or evil team is evasion, bright powder, poison or paralysis, confusion & recover/protect.
I think I would have removed gengar and kept vileplume. It sticks true to Karen and her philosophy. Love the T-tar as her ace! Gengar is used too frequently and players are use to it. Morty/Agatha.
Yeah, I'd take it even further and say that, in ideal world where the constraints of which Pokemon got released first in Gen 1 didn't fully dictate the teams, I'd kinda like it if the ace we could associate with Erika was Bellossom from the start (and/or just Victreebel if not stretching things that far), and Vileplume was the alternate form that wasn't on any major teams until Karen. Just fits better aesthetically that way.
I don’t think fixing the Kanto fights in this game will be all too entertaining, just increasing the level jumps between fights and maybe changing out a move or two here and there
@@OKreations Fair enough, I suggested it mostly as a joke. Tho I'd love to see you attempt to fix Sinnoh's gyms. Especially the DP iterations where Flint has an embarrassing 2 fire types.
@@sephiross6438 they should have added magmortar and electivire in the DP teams of flint and volkner and everyone playing the game would be like what the!?
I Really like these changes man! Will is great (though I would replace wobbafett with espeon) Koga is spot on (I really like the scizor pick, especially since he has scyther in other media) Bruno is great (nothing much to say, steelix was a nice addition) Karen is amazing (I actually really like the tyranitar pick, tho if her team stayed the same I wouldn't mind tbh) Lance is great too (I don't mind the yanmega pick tbh, it fits in a way. I will say 2 things tho: If you were willing to keep vileplume on karen's team instead of tyranitar, you could give it to lance. It would fit his vibe and also make it so he has no repeats. Also while I don't comment on movesets alot, I think you should give lance's ace dragon extreme speed instead of hyper beam. The reason is that in the dragon den, if you get all the ansswers right, you get a dratini with extrmeme speed. I think giving his dragonite extremem speed would hint that he passed the test, meaning he truly shares a bond with his dragon types. Also it's just a cool move for it to have ngl 😆) but overall great job with the changes 👍
Hey I'm glad you enjoyed the changes! I like the ideas you got cooking here, I could def see espeon instead of wobbuffet, I think it would've worked especially with umbreon being on Karen's team. I think Extreme Speed would've been cool, I just think for Lance the hyper beam is too iconic to replace (even though it's a special move on a physical mon).
with all the duplicate mons in important teams, it makes me think that sometimes the intent behind it was to show an ace pokemon coming back again as its so powerful and that was only the first half, similar to a boss battle but gamefreak couldnt implement an actual "boss" pokemon into the game. or just laziness
swapping a Dragonite for a Yanmega is just being needlessly clever when the whole point of Lance is pure big numbers; that feeling when you take out one Dragonite and know there are TWO left.
0:50 Will having two of the same Pokemon is a very interesting coincidence. He's the only member of the Elite Four to have two of the same Pokemon in Gen 2, but in Gen 1, Lorelei, the trainer he replaces, is the only member of the Elite Four who *doesn't* have two of the same Pokemon. I have to wonder if they did that on purpose.
Yeah I always saw it strange the elite four were so off balanced overall. I'd love to see Johto get a future edition and see the latest EVOS be added lile primate and the Scizor
@@OKreations yeah I feel at this point pokemon needs to not make any remasters and just make future parts in the regions or like Z and arcues a lore game in the past. The gym leaders could use the development as well as we see in black white 2 where some ended up
I dont know.... ive seen a few of these revamp videos and this one has more iptions that make less sense... like taking brunos hitmontop and Kogas forrestress. Like... those fit them so good.
That’s fair enough, I mainly made those changes so they could be placed in parts of the game where they could shine better (hitmontop on chuck, and forretress on jasmine) and so I could place scizor in the e4 as he’s a force to be reckoned with
I love your Jotho Elite Four teams. It's a shame there aren't more Dragon-Type Pokémon in Jotho for Lance to upgrade his team. In my opinion Tyranitar is a perfect Pokémon for Lance's team as Champion. // I love these videos, I hope to see you fix the Gym Leaders' team in Hoenn 😄
Thanks so much I appreciate it! I understand your opinion, but personally I don’t think tyranitar matches with the same aesthetic as the rest of the team, being flying type
I don't like Bruno losing the Hitmontop, it was a fun mon on his team. Would rather the Steelix instead so he actually has full fighting. Because on him it IS possible
Impressive improvements! I have one suggestion. Swap out Destiny Bond and Nasty Plot on the Houndoom and Gengar respectively for Will-O-Wisp. Thematically, the move fits her bold personality. From a practical standpoint, this will devastate the fighting counter on the team unless they have Guts. Burn's drop in attack power will help Karen survive Fighting type attacks. Once Tyranitar comes out, the player will have to deal with sand and burn damage between turns. To ensure Will-O-Wisp hits, Houndoom and Gengar can hold a Wide Lens.
I always wondered why they kept Bruno out of all of them. In my opinion, Lorelei was the hardest battle in the original games. (No 4x weaknesses, doesn’t use the same Pokémon more then once, & not everyone has an electric type which was her main weakness, since grass would be hit supereffectively by her ice types.) her team could’ve been Cloyster, Jynx, Lapras, piloswine/Sneasel, & finally her Slowbro or a new Slowking. Even Agatha would’ve been better to keep.
It is an interesting choice, but I think given the other options, it was the best member to bring back, if you think about it, Lorelei shares the same type as Pryce which is a much more recent fight compared to Chuck, and Agatha’s mons wouldn’t be very different from Morty AND koga since she is a pseudo poison type master with only gengar and potentially adding misdreavus as the ghost types. So honestly, I think in terms of type variety, Bruno is the best choice GF could’ve gone with
@@OKreations Yeah, but it's also possible to fight Pryce before Chuck (honestly, before I started following more Pokemon discourse on the internet, I'd always considered Lake of Rage mid-game content, and thus Pryce as the 5th Gym, and was surprised to see how uncommon that play order was), so some of the argument falls apart. .....Coulda just went with an all new Elite Four. There's no official Ground type specialist in Gen 2 even with the postgame in mind, so a new Elite Four member of that theme would have been the perfect inclusion to round things off (especially in the context of the developers thinking the series wasn't going to continue past the one sequel). Lots of that type hadn't been given a chance to shine up to that point: Donphan, Gligar, Quagsire, Sandslash, even Pupitar coulda made a showing given how low the levels were originally.
This setups looks very good, the only thing i would change it's swap dragon pulse for earthquake on Gyarados since this team is very weak to electric moved, especially Gyarados. Regardless, this is a good team redesign for a game that i don't even have played yet.
I would like to suggest some changes to maximize inclusion of unused mons and reduce repeats: - Change Bruno’s Steelix to Donphan (not used anywhere else) - Change Karen’s Gengar to Weavile and give Pryce Delibird instead of Sneasel (it might be weaker but fits him tbh) - Change the second Dragonite on Lance’s Team with Gliscor (and keep his hidden Flying Master identity going) Hope you might take these changes under consideration, but overall great series of videos anw, and good luck with the ROM Hack
These are fun changes! The gliscor is a super interesting take, I’m def not opposed to these! I think I’d rather keep Steelix on Bruno, and maybe throw a different steel type on Jasmines team to mix it up! And the weavile is cool, I just didn’t think delibird would be able to do a single thing
i think having new gen 4 evos of gen 2 pokemon works perfectly for the elite 4. it would work well to get you excited for getting them in the postgame, and also make the elite 4 feel like experts taking advantage of all their tools. one random idea: maybe bruno could have tyranitar instead of steelix, and karen could have a different mon. i agree that ttar should be in the elite 4, but karen doesnt really seem like the type of trainer to use a pseudo-legendary like that. bruno already has a rock type, and imo ttar fits brunos brash nature more.
In case you didn't see it, this thought experiment already gave Hitmontop to Chuck instead. Letting Bruno represent more for Gen 1 with the Primeape, since he's the only proper returning Elite Four member (given Lance moved up to Champion), does seem appropriate to me.
It is an interesting change, and I can see both sides, sense Bruno is the Hitmon guy ya know? So I get it feeling weird if the new hitmon doesn’t get to join his team, but I also see his desire of adding more Kanto reps to his team
For me, i think u fixed Will and Koga pretty well. For Bruno: i world give him a 2nd johto and a 2nd non fighting Pokémon that fits his theme of strengh. A pokemon that could probably fit might be Ursaring. Its a raw power Pokémon and can learn Great fighting moves Like brick break and bulk up. Imo primape is a wasted Slot in johto. For Karen: its excellent to let her murkrow evolve, but tyrani doesnt fit her theme. Perhaps u can give her a Fake Out Persian to fit her Team rocket background from the Manga? Just some Kind of „sneaky“ Pokémon, Not some Kind of Monster 😂 for umbreon: toxic > Last Resort for some toxic stall strats would fit her Perfect. For Lance: let him lead Tyranitar. Its Godzilla, a super pre historic Monster… also, the continious Sand Storm would suit him Perfect (hail strat in the Anime) and he could have learned this from red (perma hail as well) the Rest of the changes are great 👍🏻
I think out of all the Pokemon Leagues, Johto takes the least of my grinding time and the least of my effort. Dragon Dance Gyarados can literally clean sweep the whole team, because a lot of mons in Lance’s team are suboptimal as heck. Same with Sword Dance Feraligart.
Bruno's Hitmonchan actually knew Mach Punch in GSC. The only advantage of the remake replacing it with Bullet Punch is that it can hit Gengar first. Also, Exeggutor can know Sleep Powder, which has better accuracy than Hypnosis.
I don't agree with the scizor on Koga, as previously mentioned, I believed it would have been better on Jasmine or Bugsy. But also because forretress is more of a ninja pokemon in my mind. An exploding, spike setting tool to remove obstacles and pursuers.
I mean, it did basically just get replaced by having the same theme covered with Qwilfish. The video simply didn't frame it that way due to swapping that role to the opening position.
@@Shalakor true, but I still wanted to point out that I dissagreed with Scizor being a better fit to the ninja theme, then forretress. At least in my mind.
I was just thinking: to make Dragonite even more iconic, would a Blastoise maybe make sense to switch for the second dragonite? you know because turtles are in my opinion equally old and mystical just like dragons ( in japanese culture at least) and you could maybe buff gyarados and a possible thunder from dragonite.
That’s a fun idea! I would say that I tried to avoid using starters as much as possible, and since he’s already got charizard, seems weird to through blastoise on there too without venusaur haha
Scizor definitely fits koga better than forretress. Scizor has that agile and hard hitting look to it, like a ninja. Also you can’t see its mouth, almost like it’s wearing a mask like a ninja
the second dragonite on lance's team is bugging me so much that I need to give this suggestion for a replacement. Skarmory isn't completely dragon like but it's similar to a Pterodactyl, which fits into the theme of Dinosaur dragon type.
Will: Not giving girafarig shadow ball seems like exactly the opposite of what you're reasoning is for it being a counter to a quick ghost sweeper Koga: you butchered as his gimmick is him being a ninja, so evasion and poisoning is his entire gimmick. Taking away ariados with sticky web is what makes his team so much faster in being able to set up double team/minimize and wearing your team down through pp and poison damage. He's literally designed to burn through players resources. While quillfish is a nice choice for a team, taking away his speed control hurts too much. Muk needs the minimize over dig. Bc dig makes it so 1 eq one shots Muk now even when it's trying to avoid attacks. Venemoth is not a strong enough attacker to warrant an all out attack set. Bruno: you should have replaced the Machamp set with stone edge, dynamic punch, ice punch, and bulk up. It gives it a real threatening potential and plenty of coverage. If u want something spicy and unique replace bulk up with light screen (egg move) Karen: Umbreon is designed to be a lead with really good bulk and punishes the player for not taking it out right away. With it having double team to make it hard to hit, and confuse ray to make you not hit it even more, all while having faint attack to always hit you, it forces you to have a quick answer, while as your build makes it much easier to remove, due to it being an attacker rather then a defensive mon. The best moveset would have been to keep it as defensive as possible with curse, toxic, confuse ray, payback, and double team. Curse and double team making hard to hit and insanely bulky, payback doing even more damage bc of the boost from curse, and even further if ur lucky enough to hit it. While having toxic to wear teams down over time, while struggling to hit it. Evolving murkrow is a good idea, but honchkrow should have capitalized on its ability super luck by making its moves air cutter, night slash, haze, and sucker punch. It gives it 2 moves to almost always crit, while gaining stab from both typing, rather than drill peck. While yes it has a stronger physical attack stat, being able to crit boosts its damage output further than having its natural base attack stat. Lance: instead of dragon pulse, should be earthquake, to potentially offer it more coverage against trainers, and deteriorating some players from throwing out their electric type. As not ko'ing Gyarados would mean eating an earthquake right back to the player, putting them on the back foot right away. Yanmega just has zero place on a lance team period. The ace Dragonite being the very last Pokemon you face should be far more menacing, with a moveset of extreme speed (showing he went through the dragon test/trials), outrage, dragon dance, and fire punch.
This is a super in depth analysis, thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! I’m responding on mobile so it’ll take a sec to see everything but I totally understand the frustration around removing the evasive Strats on Koga, and would love to know why you don’t think yanmega works for Lance, I see Lance as needing to use part flying types, and I think giving it to him is a slight subversion because it’s not the most menacing design but idk I think it fits. And yeah I get giving it air cutter and you’re probably right that it does more when taking crits in mind
The Girafarig being named a ghost counter is really just referring to it having a normal typing, and I think shadow ball would totally work there, and the umbreon points make sense too
The aggression in this comment is hilarious. Dude taking a video made for fun WAY too personal. Great video dude!! Don’t let petty comments get to you. As someone who doesn’t understand the whole EV/IV/strat thing; it helps give me a new idea of what to do move wise. Thank you!
@OKreations with yanmega I get the idea of it being a dragonfly by design and thinks it's an interesting concept. But I feel almost as if we were gonna try going that route it would seem more realistic to maybe try going for ampharos, as it gains outrage as an option if u so desire to obtain it. Plus the access to the mega evolution in later games makes it a bit stronger argument to having one. It would also help give Lance more coverage then yanmega move pool wise, and would show that Lance has done some more time around johto region, as mareep is easily accessible in the early game as well
@Exzactly414 there's not any aggression really. I can see how one might see it as aggressive however. But my comment was merely meant as a feedback, and opening the door to figure ideas, and trying to better understand characters and strategies within the game.
My thoughts: Will - Add Alakazam Koga - Add Toxicroak Bruno - Add Infernape Karen - Add Spiritomb over Gengar, Add Weavile Lance - Add Garchomp over Yanmega, Add Salamence over Aerodactyl, Add Kingdra over Gyarados
Thanks for your thoughts! Cool ideas all around, but for me I was aiming to only use pokemon in Johto, and prioritize gen 2 mons, so for me none of these would work besides weavile and kingdra, and the weavile line is on pryces team and Claire’s got kingdra!
I would fix the E4 by just changing it entirely. I would put the following trainers: - Koga (qwilfish, venomoth, victreebel, muk, crobat) - Giovanni (mamoswine, dugtrio, gliscor, donphan, marowak) - Misty (politoed, azumarill, lanturn, quagsire, starmie) - Will (espeon, wobbuffet, slowking, girafarig, exeggutor, xatu) - Champion Karen (umbreon, weavile, vileplume, houndoom, gengar, tyranitar)
instead of hyper beam on lance’s ace dragonite i would give it giga impact because dragonite is more a physical attacker and raises physical attack from dragon dance
Imagine the 8th gym leader and the champion using the same pokemon, that would just kinda be boring. The same problem arises with Juan and Wallace, tho the difference there is there are a ton more water types to choose from, but I’d much rather have a bit of variety anyways. I also like Claire being a water focused team whereas Lance goes with air
@@OKreations didn't realize it was added in gen 5 (it was gen 5 right?) If there was a gen 2 remake with modern mechanics then that would be a really cool addition.
i really like the new level cap, Johto seems to be a really weak Region for that and now seeing Will with the strongest pokemon at the same level as Lance's most powerful Dragonite in the original games is an improvement
Oh I understand what you mean now, I mean ice is super effective on plenty of other types like flying and ground, could be good against any potential rock/ground types the player tried to throw out against all the flying types on the team, but overall there is some overlap, I think thunder could be good because of the multitude of water/ice types
I think that Gyarados should have Earthquake instead of Dragon Pulse, as it would help against Electric-types and Gyarados's special attack is bad. I also think that Koga's Muk should have Fire Punch instead of Dig. Girafarig could have a better Normal-type move than Stomp. I do understand trying to be somewhat "realistic" with these teams though.
That’s fair, I think I just wanted to keep the dragon move because he’s Lance, kinda crazy that this gets fire punch, interesting idea! And yeah there could be a better normal type option but I also like the flinch chance here too
I think Karen should've kept her Vileplume. Give her the Tyranitar and evolve Murkrow sure but her team she already had shouldn't have been swapped out.
Nice work, it makes me wonder I understand lance being the champion of Kanto is iconic but I think for Jouto to representation since it is the Johto league I think Karen should have been the champion cuz in the game she talks about strong Pokemon weak Pokemon it's the selfish perception of people true trainers should win with their favorites that sounds like the words of a champion
Fair enough, I think I would’ve thrown sleep powder over it, forgot it could have that! And I really wanted to toss the wobbuffett on wills team for the funnies
For me, tyranitar fits better on lance's team than karen's. Lance seems to build team like what actual 10 yrs old would think is the strongest team, while karen's is more stall/bulky offense type. I think feraligatr or steelix fits his team better (basically pokemon that learn dragon type move without being dragon type). For karen i think nidoqueen fits more for replacing vileplume Yanmega is not a good fit for dragon team in a japanese rpg as they don't associate dragonfly with dragon (remember people that make this game is japanese mostly during that time)
Hey! Megas wouldn’t be possible in this game to begin with, I see where you’re coming from but I feel like Ampharos doesn’t quite fit Lance’s vibe, but I could be wrong
That’s kinda the point, there’s only two dragon types accessible, and I think it’s only fair to split them between the gym leader and e4 to a certain extent. I think Lance could take the draconic looking mons that relate to the sky more while Clair take more related to the water
@@OKreations Nevertheless your videos are great and Koga really has a scyther in anime. Besides can you make videos on the process of editing the game with changes in Pokemon, trainer etc?
Yanmega for Lance is a bad idea. Dragonfly may have "Dragon" in it, but only in English. Those bugs are not linked to Dragon in name in the Japanese language. Even in language close to English like Dutch or French, their names are _Waterjuffer_ or _Demoiselle_ (or _Libel / Libellule)._ They don't relate to Dragon at all. That is why it doesn't have the Dragon-type to begin with. Nobody in the world apart the English speaking people would understand the pun. Flygon is an exception: the designer took the English name literally (Dragonfly), and tool the design process around it. Flygon is created as being a Dragon. It also a pun around the Sanddragon too. But the designer of Yanmega doesn't have this in mind. He had the ancient gigantic dragonfly mixed with an attack helicopter.
@@OKreations There is a Dragon Egg group which can be taken for inspiration. It includes Charizard, Kindra or Gyarados, but also oddities such as... Arbok. Yeah, I understand why, on all Pokémon, you wouldn't really want to trade a Dragonite for an Arbok
@@OKreations Fair. To be honest, putting Lance as a Dragon-type Champion (or semi-draconic) was kind of a bad move from Gamefreak. So really, apart from cheating and putting Dinosaur-like Pokemon such as Meganium, or a literal Godzilla such as Tyranitar (but was given to an Elite 4), I don't think there is a good solution to find. Yeah, Gyarados, Meganium, Tyranitar, Charizard, Aerodactyl and Dragonite might be a little weird.
Yeah I agree, I would’ve much rather have seen what Zen Mode did where Karen became the champion instead of Lance or just replace Lance entirely with a new champion
@@OKreations Just because according to anime and no more major reason 😅. Besides Clair's gyarados is also non-shiny. So giving Lance a shiny gyarados will help to distinguish his gyarados from Clair's.
Giving Yanmega to Lance is pretty smart actually since Lance did say in Pokemon Masters. Dragon pokemon arent necessarily dragon type. Thus answering why he has Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl at the same time 😂❤
Hey thanks for the comment! That is some Sinnoh slander! I disagree, I feel like Platinum did 80% of my job for me, I don’t necessarily think it would be worth covering! But do let me know why you feel that way, maybe I’m missing something!
I think Karen is way too hard ngl especially in a game where the choices for your team aren’t exactly crazy. I’d have her keep her murkrow, but a very big yes to her using Tyranitar as her ace.
I absolutely love your take on my dear Lance. I saw someone a while back make the note that he focuses on flying Dragons while Clair focuses on aquatic Dragons, and I'm really happy you kept that idea going too.
@OKreations Don't mention it! The idea of using BW/B2W2 sprites is brilliant, to me that's peak Pokémon graphics, really wish they stayed in the 2D/sprites style to this day.
i like it! especially with Will and Karen team. Fitting like a glove with Wobbuffet and Tyranitar giving the johto pokemon a more representation. amazing vid! 10/10
@@OKreations yeah, all Johto pokemon should’ve been in areas in the main game. Since awesome pokemon like Tyranitar & Houndoom or thyere pre-evolutions cant be found normally, especially in the OG GSC. This was kind of fixed in HGSS but only in the Safari Zone, i want to see actual wild versions of these. One of my main problems of the Johto games is that it does kind of feel like Kanto pokemon kind of overpopulates Johto and so many important battles have Kanto pokemon & not Johto like most if not all of the gym leaders
I may have a neat suggestion for Koga's team: Gliscor. Now, I know you said in the Gym Leaders part 2 video that you felt like giving the bosses mons like Magmortar or Electivire was a bit too detatched from their prevos, but I think Gliscor would be a perfect fit. For starters, it learns multiple poison type moves, gets poison heal later on, and is based on a venomous creature. Gliscor also is very close in design to it's Gligar prevo, so it'd still count as a Johto rep (at least in my opinion). Not to mention, its dex entries talk about it waiting at night for their target to let it's guard down and striking, which is ninja behavior if I've ever heard it.
Ooo that is a super fun idea, I would def put gliscor over gligar here I think that’s fine, that could totally work as a character picks with poison heal and all! I didn’t even think about that, thanks for the suggestion
Gliscor could also just go to Janine instead. That'd give her something interesting to play with, making the postgame a bit more fun. Edit: In fact, since there's the whole Gym Leader rematch mechanic and she's postgame content already anyway, could even do both Gligar for the first fight, fitting with her fledgling Gym Leader status, and then evolved for the rematch.
A qwilfish also fits Koga's ninja theme as historicaly ninja had been spies and assassin's it's likely they would have used pufferfish poison to assassinate people.
