Having this entire monologue about the most capable, strong Trainer to take care of Zapdos ending with calling him "Birdkeeper Lance" felt so out of pocket.
@@TheSmithPlays Errr, feels extremely forced. There's a difference between birdkeepers and dragon tamers, and Game Freak even distinguishes this with the Birdkeeper trainer class. Just because most of the dragon/lizard-like Pokemon tended to have Flying typing attached instead of Dragon in the earlier gens, it doesn't mean they are birds that a bird-enthusiast would capture and train. Whether you were aiming to fix Lance in a way that suited typing or theming which imo, is obviously Dragon-type dragons/lizards (and would have been this way had there been a larger selection of Dragon-types in the first two gens), you kinda failed to accomplish that either way by giving him a Zapdos.
Blaine having Moltres will definitely be awesome. Fun fact, in the Pokemon adventures manga, Blaine also battled with Entei and Mewtwo on different occasions, so out of all the Kanto leaders, it's fitting that he wound up with Moltres in your hack.
Yea in the manga, Blaine was one of the most powerful trainers in the Alan to region One of the few people said to even capable of challenging the Elite 4
Having Lance mention getting Zapdos from Red is actually good foreshadowing for the Kanto part of the game. The player wonders if they will run into the other two legendary birds as well. And they get a preview of how powerful Red will be (because he isn’t even using these legendary birds). I actually think this is brilliant for storytelling purposes.
imagine seeing someone use a legendary and then being told "oh yeah my friend gave it to me because he wasn't interested in training it" *what kind of pokemon must a competent trainer have for them to pass using legendaries*
I was thinking the same thing. The reveal of Lance having Zapdos will give the player an "omg" moment strong enough to wonder what happened to the others, making the Kanto post game something the player will be excited about rather than the slog that it is to get to Blue and Red
I actually like Karen keeping houndoom as her ace. I think of that as more iconically hers. Plus, she can have a strong Pokémon like tyranitar on her team, but that doesn’t have to be her ace especially with her philosophy. I think her seeing her pseudo legendary as her second best because she’s got her personal favorite Pokémon as her ace fits her character and doesn’t undermine her power.
I really like the idea of her using Tyranitar because she respects its strength and Dark-type power, but having her ace(s?) still be Umbreon and/or Houndoom to still fit the Karen “your favorite mons can be your most powerful” ethos.
Never notice the sky/sea dragon themes with Lance and Claire respectively, kinda makes me think that Claire's gym should've been filled with boiling water instead of lava to point at her sea dragon theme.
I've always seen that with her having blue color palette and Dragonair (although not water type) still is shown to be normally on water and also learns water moves.
Fun fact about Karen: She uses all of the pokemon that you can catch in the routes adjacent to her hometown at nighttime - celadon city. Umbreon is the exception but you can get Eevee in the game corner!
I praise how you moved me from a skeptic to an enthusiast of Lance's Zapdos. I agree, eeryone throws in a Kingdra because it is a Dragon-type, ignoringLance's theme completely. Zapdos, while risky, should have been a complete mindblow for any 10-year-old playing this game and remembering Lance from gen I. It would have been such an adrenaline rush.
The Dragonites having Thunder works out as epic last-second foreshadowing, too. Of course they know Thunder. The Thunder GOAT is in that last ball, ready to burst out for blood
I like the idea of giving Karen Tyranitar, but it does run up against the problem of two story-significant bosses with T-tar as their ace coming pretty close together.
I thought that too, but narratively speaking, it is interesting to compare the Silver and Karen in that regard. Silver struggled his way to getting his Tyranitar, and only realized later that he wasn’t appreciating it when it was only a Larvitar. He could only put up with it when it was weak, because of the promise of it becoming powerful, and it made things harder for the both of them in the long term. Karen, on the other hand, just uses Pokemon she likes. Weak or strong, doesn’t matter. She didn’t have to “put up” with raising a Larvitar, because it wasn’t a burden to her: she raises the Pokemon she has because she likes them for what they are.
I feel like the tyranitar is more at home on lance's team as opposed to karen's. How i would change her would be by innovating more on the movesets rather than the pokemon themselves, by giving her a misdreavus with a set that consists of mean look, perish song, thunderbolt and protect, and giving her umbreon the NASTY mean look baton pass combo, as well as giving one of her pokes a moveset with curse + physical. her houndoom would have sunny day, solarbeam, crunch and flamethrower. i feel like someone who wins with their favourites having to go out of their way creatively to be a top elite 4 member would be the perfect place to showcase such unique strategies, even if they are more akin to modern gen 2 pokemon play rather than a single player experience.
@@Shalakor I mean that could be part of the changes for this fight, indeed that would be troublesome but imagine how cool it would be for karen to perish trap you for underestimating her cute little ghost thing
strongly agreed! honestly, i dont really like the changes made to karens team at all, its just changing the narrative of the game in order to suit a power curve and i dont think its in the spirit of the game to do so.
A really cool unintentional detail of the Elite 4 in Gen 1 is that all the members are really dual-type specialists. Lorelei is efficient with ice & psychic types, Bruno with fighting and rock types, Agatha with ghost and poison types, and Lance with dragon and flying types. Sad that this trend never returned in future generations.
They came close with something in Galar in the very late game. Marnie is pretty much a poison and dark specialist, Bede as psychic and fairy and Hop as normal steel (besides the starter)
@@anlev11 There's an interesting theory that Will is a gender-swapped Lorelei and Karen is the daughter of Agatha. Mostly because they share Pokemon and design traits respectively. Since Lorelei shares two of her Psychic types with Will and because of her psychic abilities in the adventures manga, that's why I gave her an ice-psychic duality.
@@Axecon1Lorelei isn't a trans, that theory is just pure garbage, Game Freak always left the Pokemon story very open for fans to speculate however that was just nonsense. Lorelei left the Elite 4 after being defeated by Red and went to her home in the 7th Islands. End of the story.
I always disliked the idea that the Gym Leaders and Elite 4 were type specialists. It would've been better to make them Move Type specialists, at least for the E4. Having Gen 1 Lorelei have a Tauros(Blizzard)& Alakazam(Ice Beam), Bruno with a Hypno(Counter)& Clefable(Submission). Gen 2 can have the difference even bigger, with Clair using Pokemon from the Dragon Egg group and Lance having Pokemon that learn any Dragon moves. With the Gen 3& Let's Go games, GF could've retconned the universe for a extra difficulty, acceptable change, and improving sales on buying remakes
have you tried putting Wobbuffet on Will’s team? a gimmicky Pokémon would be cool to see (maybe if we expand his moveset slightly, without touching his nature). Also I think Mewtwo would be a great fit for Red, a cooler, stronger Psychic-type cat to replace Espeon (it also makes sense story-wise).
I like the idea of Will getting Wobbuffet, that would be a cool change. Catching Mewtwo, even for Red, feels like sacrilege to me (personally). I know newer Gens exist where there are stronger Pokemon, but Mewtwo will forever be to me the unstoppable man-made monster that cannot be contained.
@@derekjack8941 Every big boss in USUM's Rainbow Rocket arc uses a box-art legendary (Giovanni himself uses Mega Mewtwo), Hop uses Zacian/Zamazenta in the SwSh postgame, there's already some precedent
@@derekjack8941 I think it fits him perfectly though. Red has canonically caught every Pokémon in Kanto an he is the last trainer you fight in the entire game, he can use Mewtwo. I like to think that Red gained Mewtwo's trust, with the latter learning that not all humans are heartless beings (kinda like the first movie or Pokémon Origins), I think it would be awesome to see it in an actual ROM hack
I feel like Karen losing Team Members thematically defeats the point of her theme, she's using her favorites, it's better to keep her with her favorites. If anything, it would've been better to either give her an additional team member or give all of her Pokemon extra tools to get the job done. Vileplume could've functioned as a Support Wall Like Umbreon does, with the difference being that Umbreon loses to fighters while Vileplume can sit on them all day, which gives Vileplume a breath of life into that teamslot. It also can't be understated that Vileplume also does cover a weakness of hers, which Tyranitar actually makes even more obvious, Rock/Ground Types. Murkrow and Houndoom loses to the Rocks while Houndoom and Gengar, her 2 heavy hitters btw, lose to ground types, Vileplume, on the other hand, says hello to both and can scare them away with ease. Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain are all you need for attacks for this, the other 2 moves can be support oriented to help her team after the fact, such as Sleep Powder for Gengar. Tyranitar doesn't offer that. The idea of her team consisting of her favorites while also being oriented to help each other is a great idea for her thematically as it fits with the original idea, and the idea of her being an Elite Four Member because she knows how to switch her Pokemon around to gain an advantage would make her a more intriguing member than simply padding her with a Tyranitar that you could, instead, easily give to Brock, Blue, or Red
Perfectly said! Just improve their movesets. Heck, even copy some of Stadium 2! In Stadium 2, her shenanigans are spamming Attract, Confuse Ray, and Swagger. So, Umbreon and Vileplume (her walls) could be really annoying with Attract and Confuse Ray/Swagger (plus Toxic, in Umbreon's case, and maybe Stun Spore, in Vileplume's case)
Well, she does have Tyranitar in the TCG so it's not completely out of left field but yeah it might make more sense for her to keep the Vileplume for coverage.
I mean... yeah but no. At the end of the day she's still a type specialist and a thematic boss in a video game. She already throws out half her team in the rematch in HGSS, and her team is even more out there in Stadium 2. Not to mention the TCG. Besides maybe Umbreon which is a friendship evo after all, the only thing in her team she's actually friends with consistently is her ace Houndoom. Besides, it's not out of lore to have more than 6 pokémon you rotate. Have you seen the list of partners for battle facilities? Some people out there with like 40 different Pokémon in their teams. You could just read Karen's speech as "Yes I like mostly dark Pokémon and a few others, here's the ones I'm using right now"
Ok… hear me out. Replace Lance’s second dragonite with Skarmory! From Bulbapedia: Skarmory has much in common with the Andean condor and cranes, birds that are held in high esteem in Japan. It is also similar to many **mythological**, metallic birds such as the Stymphalian birds, the Gagana, and the Alicanto. In addition, its design resembles a **WYVERN**! Do it please I beg of you!
Interesting take, in my opinion from what I gather from this series so far, I feel like this might be one of those situations of straying too far from the original games. Having multiple dragonites seems almost necessary on lance’s team.
His plan for fixing the gym leaders already has Skarmory on Jasmine's team, which is an important counter to Ground-type Pokemon. I think adding one to Lance's team is worth consideration, but he'll have to find a really good moveset to fit onto Lance's team -- something like Steel Wing, Hyper Beam, Sandstorm, and Sky Attack. (Any other move ideas?)
I hate giving Karen Tyranitar. I think it flattens her speech of using your favorite Pokémon compared to just strong Pokémon. I know you said that it doesn’t make sense for someone weak to become a member of the Elite Four but wouldn’t it be more impressive that someone got to the position she is in with Pokémon that on the surface don’t look strong. She can still be a challenge as long as you tailor her team to be about tactics rather than strength. On top of that, Tyranitar is already the ace of Silver’s team in your romhack so it kind of steals his thunder there too.
Honestly like the final rival fight the elite four should be a major challenge to show the player they made it. Something like the bdsp elite four with amazing teams or buff in moves.
The BDSP elite 4 is just the original really shitty E4 from DP though? Unless you mean the rematches, in which case again it's just the Platinum teams.
@@Cr3zant what? the BDSP e4 had full EVs and competitive held items and movesets, cynthia's garchomp had a yache berry and poison jab and her milotic had a flame orb-marvel scale combo
Interesting how you are giving the old gen some new life in the lore and power levels. It's gonna make that highlights video legendary to see and people's runs fun to watch when this is done
Zapdos is definitely a great addition for Lance, and the explanation for the three birds fits pretty perfectly, plus there's just a lot of very nice team choices in general. Also. Karen using "pokemon she likes" actually *fits* with the narrative of "Larvitar is perceived as weak by Silver," while showing "how strong it can be when someone *isn't* obsessed with power," so that's actually a much better fit than I think was even intended! Narrative parallels are always veeeeery cool. I do feel like giving Zapdos to Lance *might* not prove to be enough of a change on its own, but it's also difficult to figure out what else one could change to help with that... perhaps if, instead of Rain Dance on Gyarados (which does nothing to cover any of his weaknesses, given his original team ALL resists fire), there was Sunny Day on Charizard (which helps protect Charizard/Aerodactyl and can possibly be used to justify giving Charizard Solar Beam as an answer to Quagsire, which it outspeeds), that would help a bit with cementing Charizard's role as a check to some of the water types... assuming fire mitigates the ice weakness, actually, but that wasn't the case in gen 2, so I guess it'd mean Ice Beam is STILL a huge deal... Or perhaps just the raw power of Hyper Beam makes slower 'mons like Quagsire just less of an issue in general? Giving Lance at least ONE pokemon that can resist ice beam feels like it'd make a huge difference... but I'm not sure who would suit that role. Like, if he's to have a water type that's work as a check to certain 'mons, Feraligatr actually feels similarly thematic as a "dragon-enough" 'mon that can pick up Dragon Dance in later gens. Plus, it can potentially fire off some fighting moves to help crack ice types, while resisting the surf/ice beam combo that carried so many through Lance, making for a nice *pivot* instead of a lead. Then again, Zapdos with Light Screen is VERY good, which might be entirely enough? Also! If wanting to reinforce Karen's narrative about "just use the ones you like," you could always just have her still using a few less optimal 'mons, but then have them raised to higher levels-- her spiel about using what you like could then be shown as something where she's worked harder and trained more to *make* that work, and then you could have Tyranitar feel like it's practically hypocritical of her... until you consider the Larvitar substory with Silver. Now *that* could be quite cool-- level is an underutilized mechanic for changing up the difficulty for a given pokemon, after all. Also also! I feel like it does still seem strange for the Elite Four to be running 5-pokemon teams. Some of the cut 'mons feel like they could be kept in as 6ths if wanting to try and retain some of the teams' previous identities. Will could perhaps have Wobuffet, as an unusual psychic type that never really gets a chance to be showcased prior. It would make for a strikingly strange pick, and fits well with Will's fixation on moves like Future Sight. Or perhaps Starmie-- a 'mon that only really sees use in Misty's team in Kanto, which always undercut its value as a psychic type. Though, this would mean Will's team would be largely comprised of water types, at that point, so maybe not. Koga, meanwhile, could then keep a Weezing, to showcase some fire type coverage against possible steel types that would wall his poison-type attacks? It's an underrated 'mon that sports more of a solid statline than most'd expect. Bruno, then, might even double down on the Steelix idea, as a further check to psychic and flying types. Or perhaps he might add on a powerful normal type that gets good use out of a high attack stat, like Tauros? Or a potential user of moves like Mega Punch and Mega Kick that has some coverage against flying types, like Electabuzz, perhaps? And Karen, then, could also have the displaced Sneasel, if that's no longer to be Silver's signature 'mon. Which may well be a great contender for gaining several extra levels to raise its statline enough to justify its use, "despite being weaker," or some such? It's a 'mon that doesn't really get much chance to shine, in gen 2, much like Murkrow, so it'd be interesting to consider, in any case. --- Rambling, though. Tl;dr: cool stuff! I think the bird trio idea is particularly rad, as is the narrative parallel potential in giving Karen a Tyranitar.
I disagree on RD nothing for the team. Dunno if that's possible in Gen2s AI but if Gyarados could set rain when it gets low, like as a setup for the dragonite's thunder. That would be nasty and just fit for a bit of foreshadowing. While the team typing is flying and the theme is mostly dragons/pseudo dragons and power, using a thunder based strategy to build up to Zapdos would be brilliant. But don't know if you can do such "story telling by combat" in gen2's AI.
@@Metalhammer1993 You're definitely right that Rain Dance adds some neat flavor and utility by merit of buffing Lance's Dragonites' own Thunder, actually. I'd genuinely just missed that connection. That, however, only *magnifies* his ability to check bulky water types, which Zapdos was added specifically to deal with. So, by "not adding anything," I just mean in terms of coverage-- since Bird Zeus now covers that role. Which wouldn't be a problem if it didn't also mean ignoring (or worse, amplifying) other weaknesses. Magneton with Thunder tears apart Lance's team under Rain Dance, save for Aerodactyl's Earthquake, and Quagsire's middling special then suddenly becomes enough to take out Aerodactyl and Charizard, while also giving it a more powerful option than Ice Beam (Rain Dance boosted STAB Surf) with which to hit Zapdos. Sunny Day, meanwhile, is great on a team with zero fire weaknesses and five resistances to the type, as it suddenly gives Aerodactyl the bulk to tank a STAB Surf, as bulky non-Ice water types who get Ice Beam will have their offensive STAB weakened, as a tradeoff for their not having STAB Ice Beam (which, itself, then risks super-effective Rock Slides from the faster Aerodactyl-- making for a nice risk/reward balance). On top of that, Charizard itself can then potentially benefit from Sunny Day to its fullest, by setting up Sunny Day to keep from being OHKO'd by a STAB Surf, and then firing off a Solarbeam that can heavily check the likes of Quagsire, whose only Rock-type attack in Gen 2 is Rollout (unless someone were to breed Corsola or such for Hidden Power as an egg move, but that's so specific that they've earned it, by that point, lol). ALSO. Fire inherently checks Dragon's issue with steel types in general. Which also resist Lance's signature move: Hyper Beam. Having a powerful check to the only type that would realistically resist Lance's offensive is a huge deal. And hey-- if that means someone gets reason to use the oft-neglected rock type a bit more consideration for this fight, then that's another cool side-effect. Especially since Tyranitar would require outleveling Lance to obtain by that point, which could even be a reward for someone who trained of a Larvitar after seeing Silver's story, if you want some more ludonarrative consistency (because, then, Tyranitar, ironically enough, becomes the REASON Silver then would stand so much better of a chance against Lance, actually). But I'm drifting off topic, again. Most of Lance's team can learn fire moves that'd benefit directly from Sunny Day, and Zapdos/Charizard even benefit from the reduced accuracy to foes' Thunder. Gyarados would theoretically be the only 'mon hurt by Sunny Day, but, as Lance's lead, that can't really happen under normal circumstances. Zapdos, however, is notable anti-synergy, if it's running thunder, which may be a concern. But there's also a completely different matter that Sunny Day could address: the utter uselessness of Typhlosion against Lance, a champion whose entire team had resisted the fire-type starter, while being obliterated by Ice Punch and STAB Surf from Feraligatr. Meganium always at least hit Gyarados and Aerodactyl for neutral damage, but versus this version of Aerodactyl, Meganium would, notably, also check its Rock/Ground moves while requiring three or more Wing Attacks to KO (depending on Leftovers and stat experience), meaning Reflect with Synthesis (both level-up moves) would actually give Meganium the edge. Which is also neat, because then every starter has *something* interesting they can do in the fight against Lance (assuming Sunny Day is there to make Typhlosion's STAB more useful). --- That all being said... no, gen 2 can't really do much in way of AI to make weather-use much of a thing. Rain Dance to build up Zapdos WOULD be some amazing flavor, though, if it could be made consistent... like removing it from Gyarados's moveset entire to make into a *field effect*, akin to the hail in Red's battle. In which case, Charizard, the world's most overrepresented Pokemon, might then be on the chopping block. As for powerful 'mons that could replace it who would benefit from Rain Dance, however, Scizor is the best that comes to mind within the vague "flying" theme, given its evolution from a flying type and its fierce aesthetics meshing well with Lance's team, while still being a Pokemon that's not too heavily represented within gen 2. My degenerate side does admittedly start screaming cruel ideas like "Swords Dance/Agility Baton Pass into Hyper Beams!," but even on its own, Scizor would have its nice new movepool to work with, and maaaaaybe still Swords Dance (given its Scyther's signature move, would would be brutal for Scizor's own Hyper Beam). Having rain as a field effect for Lance, though, could ALSO then be one-upped by Red, later, so it doesn't necessarily steal Red's thunder to take that sort of approach. And, as you said, Metalhammer, Thunder then becomes a key move to build Lance's team around, a bit more, which does a *lot* for the bulky water problem if that Rain Dance can be kept consistent. -AND- a Pokemon like Scizor still gives Typlosion a role in the champion fight, even under rain! Since it resists Scizor's STABs, can still deal 2x damage with fire moves, and also can use those resistances to set up its own Sunny Day, for that matter, actually! Especially nice since then Typhlosion becomes a soft check to Zapdos's Thunder, by so doing. Very cool stuff. Assuming field effects for Lance's battle would even be *possible*, mind-- let alone desirable. And also assuming that Charizard -> Scizor would be an appropriate and interesting option within Lance's new thematic design, mind. (If you can't tell, I just find this stuff fun to consider and talk about, though-- excuse the endless wall of text!)
Not gonna lie fighting the legendary birds in that way would have been so cool. After fighting Articuno and Moltres you're just anticipating when the big Zapper is going to show
Yeah but remember you'd have to beat the Elite 4 before you get access to Kanto so Zapdos would be first due to Lance, Moltres second for Blaine and Articuno last for Blue before fighting Red who should have Mewtwo over Espeon. Honestly after that battle Mew should be popping up flying around the trainer's only to fly off with Blue or Oak if not both coming up tje Mt finally finding Red after so long and seeing Mew fly off with text from them saying "...was that a New Pokemon?".
I think what Will desperately needs are pokemon that can inflict status. Instead of Slowbro, why not say... Hypno, which can use hypnosis and thunder wave/zap cannon as well? Another pokemon I think would fit nicely on fit nicely on Will's team is Porygon 2, not only because he looks like Will a bit, but its typing can spice things up and can provide decent coverage with its wide movepool along with psychic.
Love the addition of the legendary birds into the game and i love even more the explanation to them. It really makes this project feel like an unofficial sequel to yellow
What I came up with was either giving him an Arcanine due to its lore and being the Legendary Pokemon, Ampharos bcus its mega is dragon type with its fur looking like clouds and or giving him Golem bcus out of all 3 trade evo's we never see Golem. These were the only things I could come up with that would make Lance more unique
You have so unironically _cooked_ with Zapdos on Lance that I am going back and re-doing some of my FireRed reteams for a decompilation hack that I'm doing. I remember when I played SoulSilver back in the day that it literally took the Elite Four to make me realise that maybe just using Typhlosion isn't the best idea, so it's good to see that they're now worthy of their titles of the best trainers in the region.
Maybe a controversial suggestion, but I think Hitmonchan should have higher sp. atk, probably the same stat as it’s atk. Hitmonchan, as far as I see, only knows a handful of special attacks which includes the elemental punches thief and pursuit (which you made those last two physical anyway). The sp atk only affects his elemental punches and wouldn’t feel out of the ordinary to give him the extra move potential.
You could flip it's special attack with its special defence giving it a nice base 100 special attack Edit: hitmonchan has a special defence stat of 110 that is more than it's attack stat
@@fishbot9902 or that! My suggestion was really that, Hitmonchan’s sp atk is useless otherwise. If it was raised or lowered it wouldn’t drastically interfere in battling against it, but if it did have higher sp atk, in this specific rom hack, it would only just make the elemental punches useful and not an unused-“what could have been” move kit. Maybe someone out there is thinking “so if he had 105 sp atk that means he’s better at it than venusaur, arcanine, starmie etc???” But that’s missing the point. It’s not like hitmonchan is using flamethrower. It’s just a guy throwing silly punches with silly elements attached to them. Lol
@@fishbot9902 This is a really good idea! The elemental punches don't have high base damage anyway so it's not like they'd be overpowered. Swapping his special def and special atk could make him more of a full on glass cannon, which I think is fine for a Pokemon like Hitmonchan
@@fishbot9902 I know what you were saying. I was just going back to my suggestion on just matching his atk stat so it doesn’t cripple him with a really bad sp def and getting knocked out before he can even do anything.
I feel like complaining that Koga had 3 Koffing, and then not giving him one Weezing is missing the mark a little. We do want to give him pokemon that reference his old teams, right? We want him to feel like the same gym leader taken up a knotch, and considering Weezing is really his ace in red and blue, It feels like a mistake to have it gone, even though that's exactly what Game Freak did. I'm not terribly against tentecruel as a one-off, and foretress does feel ninja-ish, but I feel like both together add up to half his team diluting the character's identity. Again, this is a problem inherited from gold and silver, but one we should be trying to solve. If we look at other games in which Koga appears, bulbapedia says he that his rematch team in the Let's Go games is actually tentecruel-weezing-golbat-venomoth-muk, which is remarkably close to the team you've proposed, if we take giving that golbat an evolution for granted, and I feel like that Foretress-for-Weezing swap might be better. Part of me wants a big overhaul on Bruno. Like, the Hitmons are lackluster and have a different iconic trainer; the dude who hands you a Tyrogue and who fought you in Saffron city back in the day... but that also means gutting half his team from g/s/c, and that's also probably not right. I dunno, though I'm oddly nostalgic for Bruno as that Elite 4 member who has a clear *vibe* but mixes two different type identities, with fighting types balances by some rock/ground/steel energy. I wouldn't be against a Steelix-Heracross-Golem-Machamp team with one more fighting type, but outside of the Hitmons there's only Poliwrath and Primeape, which are Chuck's and bad, respectively. Actually, side note- can I request that the Karate Master in Mt. Mortar get a Hitmontop added to his team? He legit doesn't have one in any version of the games, and I always found that disappointing. I'm mixed on a Karen Tyranitar. I would agree with you in the name of using it *somewhere* if you hadn't already given it to Silver though. It doesn't fit Karen's *vibe* she's not a trainer who uses King Gidorah to kick your ass, that just doesn't fit her design, her dialogue, or her reason d'etre. I'd rather see Lance use it to diversify his types than Karen. With the buffs you gave Misdrevus, I'd almost rather see her be split between dark and ghost types, like Bruno classically was between fighting and onixes in gen 1, than see her with a Tyranitar. Hard disagree on that one, Tyranitar doesn't feel right for Karen. As for Zapdos: My issue is that I feel like this is too big a break from what Gen 2 already was, not unlike the Tyranitar. You've cautioned people making suggestions in the past that you won't consider changes that make the game feel like it's no longer the Crystal they remember, and I think this is you proposing exactly one of those changes. Something that is too big a break from the original games, something that would have made the experience of playing those original games fundamentally different enough that we would still remember it clearly today, through the fog of time and nostalgia. My understanding of your design philosophy up until this point has been trying to make a version of Crystal that lives up to what we remember of it through that fog, where the rough edges are sanded off and the failings that we didn't notice or didn't stop us from having fun as kids are fixed for real rather than edited out by our memories. I think this is too much of a structural change, like refusing to make gyms 5-7 linear would have been. You have purposefully rejected changes like this in the past because they broke with precedent too much, I think having Zapdos on Lance's team is too much.
I think this guy is kind of hypocritical in a way. He wants to make "a ROM fixing Crystal so that it still feels like a new rehion with nrw cool discovered pokemom and not just kanto 0.5" and then proceeds to add some random theory about Red giving other trainers (who he canonically just happens to meet and not bwfriends) legendary birds cuz they're now appearantly endangered when in reality they're just rare and hard to catch?
Pretty much what youre getting at is something i noticed too: He's interested in making trainers more difficult and competitive while eschewing the world building aspects of their teams. I once read that Karen's team is actually "Pokemon that would be creepy to encounter at night". Also, maybe I'm canonically wrong about this, but I thought legendary pokemon were, like, one pokemon. They're not a species, theyre unique and diety-like
@@ivo9202 Some of thenlater ones are, but I don't think there was ever enough lore written (in the games at least) about the Legendary Birds to back that claim. The Beasts in g/s/c started to be creatures of local folklore enough that it became more reasonable to think of them that way, and the series never went back.
Something that I had found interesting about Koga's team is that his ariados was really only there to be a baton pass set up. I mean it was supposed to up it's evasiveness then switch to fortress, who then was meant to set up hazards. But ariados sucks so bad that you'd never know this was a thing because you'd kill it first. It's a shame because Koga's whole thing is actual strategy around status moves(like a ninja) but never really got to utilize them.
I just want to play it already. I’m so stoked this happening. I started with Pokémon Blue but have always been a Gen II guy ever since playing Silver Version. Quilava and Umbreon are my #1 and #2 Pokémon of All-Time, even to this day. I love the changes to the Gym Leaders’ Teams, the buffs to the lackluster Gen II Pokémon, the level curve WHILE KEEPING THE NONLINEARITY THAT IS TRUE TO WHAT MAKES JOHTO, well, JOHTO and even these Elite Four changes! Thanks for your hard work man, and thanks to everyone that is helping you create such an awesome experience for myself to look forward to.
As appropriate as it would be for Karen to have a Tyranitar ace from a power perspective, I think it clashes quite a bit with your simultaneous choice to tie Tyranitar to the rival. You see him with a Tyranitar ace just three encounters before Karen. There's no rule that aces can't be duplicated (Karen's original ace Houndoom is also the ace of Archer, fwiw), but that kind of duplication in such a small timing window is, well, hmm. I can't say I like it. Especially since you want the whole evolutionary line to become an allegory of the rival's character arc, I'd say if there was any one Pokemon in Crystal that was "off limits" to any other story significant trainers, it would be Tyranitar. There's also no precedent for E4 members having pseudos on their teams until Hassel in Scarlet and Violet. Again, not a rule, and has a counterexample (after 25 years of power creep, granted), but it is a pattern.
@@DiamondIceNS And now that I think about it...Drake in Gen3 also has a pseudo. Huh, never thought about it, but apparently Gen2 was the odd-one out in the first three.
Was not expecting that much of a backstory on Zapdos but that’s incredible. Love it. Awesome to see someone with so much passion for the Gen 2 games and the potential they have.
I think the point of Karen was to fight dirty. She focuses on causing status moves and lowering accuracy. Having a power house like Tyranitar defeats the purpose of fighting with your favorites. I would've saved that for Lance or kept it for the rival. Why not use some of her strategies from Pokemon Stadium 2? In round 1 all of her Pokemon knew the moves : Attract , a status move , confuse inducing move, and a coverage move. In round 2 she had nastier strategies like Mean Look + Perish Song, Swagger + Psych UP , and Para flinch with King's Rock.
I understand that the Kanto inclusion is a defining feature of Gen2, but in reality it is an abysmal part of it. So a successful rom will dramatically change the experience in the Kanto section of the game. I feel like giving Lance Zapdos is the perfect departure point from the 'as expected' experience that the Jhoto map should be feeling like. It's telling the player that from this point on the 'true to crystal' ethos will be slightly different and fresh changing energy will be added to the game for the now champion player to enjoy. Crystal really ends with Lance because the following gameplay is lackluster. Your romhack will flourish from Lance by taking your now complete Jhoto team on a exhibition tour through what Gen2 Kanto should be. I guess I'm trying to say that I can support the daring decision to give an NPC a legendary.
I want to say I love your videos and love what you’ve done with the game. I love the way yo’re trying to improve the game while keeping the Crystal’s identity in check. I like most of the changes in this video and would love to see them implemented some day (including your idea about the legendary birds). With that being said, I’m going to HARD disagree with giving Karen Tyranitar. It makes sense game mechanic wise and also helps explain her top spot in the elite four. However, I think that undercuts the important lesson that she’s trying to teach us: winning isn’t as important as using your favorites. My personal head cannon is that she doesn’t like Tyranitar, which is why she doesn’t use it. However, putting that aside, she also has 3 important characteristics about her team that work better without Tyranitar: 1. She has a theme of “pet” or “domesticated” Pokémon. All of her dark types, the type she specializes in, are based off of animals that could be seen as pets (or at least accustomed to people with Murkrow). Even Vileplume could be seen as having a potted plant or part of her garden. Granted, Gengar doesn’t fit this theme neatly, but it’s still a playful Pokémon and could fit nicely in a house, unlike Tyranitar, who would probably destroy any house it was sent out of its ball in. 2. Having Tyranitar would make it Lance’s position as a trainer. Not only does going from lower statted Pokémon of Karen’s team help make Lance that much more of daunting challenge, Tyranitar also counters a huge chunk of Lance’s team, which makes him seem a lot more vulnerable to Karen Usurping him. 3. Finally, it makes Karen less badass by having her be implied to rely on a tyranitar. The fact that she’s the second strongest trainer in the region and her team has such low stats makes it incredible as to how she got that high ranked. It also might be explain some of her wonky move selection (it would be hilarious if she beat Bruno by spamming sand attack). It really plays into her whole deal and I say it’s important to keep. Now I’m not saying you can’t change up her move sets (I’ll take Morty’s moves on Gengar any day), but PLEASE don’t give her Tyranitar.
Gotta say, I love all of these decisions *except* Karen's Tyranitar. I get what you were saying about her needing to have a strong team, but she doesn't need a pseudo legendary to be powerful, and it goes against her philosophy as a character. Obviously it's not unrealistic to say she might like tyranitar regardless of strength (because it is very cool), but when her few lines express her want to not care about strength, giving her one of the strongest pokemon in the game feels very hypocritical. Not to mention that you built the rival's entire character arc around tyranitar as well. That felt earned, I don't believe karen's does. I would suggest going for more of an "optimized" theme with Karen. Keep the idea of "winning with favorites" (though I do agree with swapping Vileplume due to its lack of thematic relevance), but make Karen's team as efficient as it possibly can be under the constraints of her favorite pokemon. Instead of tyranitar, I would go for the improved Sneasel, utilizing the Blackglasses item and giving it access to Crunch(Bite is an egg move in vanilla gen 2, I think it's reasonable), Ice Punch, Metal Claw, and Slash. The choice of held item and the best possible moves it can learn shows that Karen is a very skilled trainer, but Sneasel still not being an amazing pokemon (though I do believe it would turn out to be a strong threat) shows that she truly does stick to her ideals, even in her position of immense power. Additionally, due to sneasel's scarcity in gen 2, it further enhances the idea that she prioritizes pokemon she loves; sneasel being rare yet not incredibly strong proves that it would *be* one of her favorites that she talks about using. Just a thought, though. Love what you're doing here, and I look forward to seeing the best version of crystal come to fruition.
You dont want to put Kingdra on Lances team because it would ruin Claires identity but you put Tyranitar on Karens to ruin your rivals new identity??? That seems much worse to me seeing how your rivals story is something you experience through out the game and carries more significance.
Eh, I think Sneasel is a better fit for Karen, thematically. Her team has a lot of lurking, slippery Pokemon with Vileplume being the weird outlier. Sneasel is still pretty powerful. Yeah, Tyrannitar not being in the E4 is a crime, but even her HGSS rematch team consists of the more speedster dark types or the ones connected with hiding in plain sight
This, Sneasel (although a bit odd at the time) is a perfect fit and it first her aestethic Her Spiritomb and Absol in HG/SS where an odd placement though
I really like your idea of distributing the legendary birds like this!! Also, I threw a comment on your Rival video with a suggestion for his team that I felt would have some good story impact. Just letting you know so it isn't missed!
Nice updated teams. Only suggestions I would say are Wobbuffet replacing Will’s slowbro. Slowbro feels partially redundant on his team with slowking and it would be some rep for a mon that can be quite threatening if you aren’t prepared for it. Not to mention you have at least 2 more major trainers in Kanto that could easily have a slowbro as well. And although Karen’s gengar may be the best counter to fighting types, something like qwilfish could throw a lot of players for a loop. Especially if stats were buffed and it hasn’t been used elsewhere. It could be a light nod to PLA or even just a way to weaken fighting types by poisoning them and taking hits for the rest of her team. Otherwise, all updates feel fairly thematic or no brainers.
I almost think giving Ttar to Karen almost takes away from how cool it was on the rival's team. Like, it's this big moment with the rival that now he has this insanely strong Pokemon, and then like four battles later some other lady has it? idk
i mean, i feel like calling the last member of the elite 4 "some lady" kind of downplays how impressive it is. If anything it kind of hits home that t-tar is so rare that the only other person to have one is a member of the elite 4
Silver shouldn't have one. His whole issue is despite using powerful Pokémon hes failing because his heart isn't in it. Him randomly picking up a lavitar and somehow not throwing it off the team definitely doesn't work at all compared to Karen picking up a larvitar and training it up because thats what she does reads alot better. Its also kinda neat how you hear in this game that silver heard larvitar was strong and that knowledge would've come from people knowing it becomes a ttar due to karen.
Came here after your fixing Gen 2 gym leaders video. Would love to see what your version of Crystal can achieve. I was so fond of the original game growing up, but I know it can be so much better. Can’t wait to see what you do in this one and beyond. You got yourself a new subscriber
I like the idea of Steelix fitting Bruno’s vibe But I think Donphan could fit the bill too, it makes me think of bodybuilders flipping tires. Plus Donphan could use a little more attention in this region
I like that you called the legendary birds near extinct rather than one of a kind, since even back in Gen 1, there is a bird keeper that explains they are just so rare as to be legendary
Lance was just a product of the limitations that the dragon type had in Gen 2, and they made at least some sense out of it. The only other options that I can see Lance having (realistically) are Tyranitar, Feraligatr or Steelix; but including the birds is a cool idea too ngl.
The only thing I'm not sure about is giving a Tyranitar as an ace to both Silver *and* Karen. It usually feels like each of the characters tend to have their own aces to set them apart from the other trainers, but here we have two characters with the same ace in really close proximity.
Your arguments about who shoud have the 3 legendary birds are perfect you gave it a lot of thought i really apreciate your work and dedication keep it up :D
I loved the story and gameplay use of Zapdos! Very well done! I’ve been replaying Pokemon Silver this week and am now wishing Lance would have a Zapdos now that I’m off to the Elite Four.
Great video as always but... Something's bothering me. In your explanation of why lance should have zapdos, you mention red's team... With the starters, pikachu, and snorlax... And didn't mention espeon. And there's also the fact you gave espeon to will, and talked about the fact that... If legendary are not obtainable, there must be a reason... So you're saying mewtwo is the 6th Pokémon of red ??? *Excited squeal*
Before you announced Zapdos, I thought you were gonna suggest Lugia lol. Seems another flying dragon-like beast in a way, but I like your Zapdos explanation. I thought maybe another justification would be because he already has Pikachu on his team; another electric. Very interesting analysis though!
I adored this! Really liked all the changes made, especially the T-tar rep on Karen's team! And the Steelix on Bruno's, and all the lore and story for the legendary birds. Witt that said, and after seein the moveset given to Zapdos: Quagsire exists. Its a water/ground type immune to electric, whom I assume can learn both ice punch and ice beam. It can alsk learn stab Surf, and rock tomb. So yeah, Quagsire would still run through Lance's new improved team. Except for Gyarados, but Gyarados isn’t a threat, just send in any electric type and its dead, and Quagsire cleans the rest of the team. So I say, give grass coverage to one of them dragons. Idk, hidden power grass, or sunny day/solar beam combo or something, to counter the one water/ground type that’s immune to Zapdos.
I don't mind the deal with the birds. I actually think it's cool. My real gripe with the gen2 elite 4 that was fixed in HGSS, was the lack of scaling after kanto. Is there any consideration for having a higher leveled elite 4 after the player has 16 badges? Or is that not easily feasible with the codebase of the game
I "think" he's confirmed there will be Elite Four rematch changes. I do for sure remember he's definitely confirmed Gym Leader rematches, so it'd be crazy if I'm wrong about maybe remembering him mentioning higher level Elite Four.
Giving Karen Ttar goes against her ethos and it cheapens Silver's ace. I think she should have her original team with better movesets + a 6th Pokemon to compensate for the team's stats being weaker than other E4 members. Just going off vibes, I think Cloyster has that same "cool/michevious" energy of all her other Pokemon, while definitely not seeming super OP, so that's my pick. Practivally speaking, it can resist ice which Vileplume/Murkrow struggle with and deals with ground types which Houndoom/Gengar can't. Let it have explosion fron gen 1 to actually take out opposing ice types, rather than just wall them, and I think you'd have a better way of preserving her identity while still upping the challenge.
Fun fact, the only way to legit fight a trainer Heracross is at the Trainer House. However, it requires Pokemon Stadium 2 and Mystery Gift. Through that feature, the girl, Carrie, has one of 3 teams, from which you can battle. One of which leads with a Feraligatr. This team has a Heracross.
I personally don't see a reason to give Tyranitar to Karen. You've already given Ttar to the rival and are clearly trying to avoid duplicates. Her Houndoom is already an excellent ace so let her open up with Sneasel to set up with Reflect, an egg move, for defense against Bug and Fighting. You've already removed Sneasel from Silver's team.
A few issues here. Removing Jynx for Espeon for a multitude of reasons missed quite a few things. Lorelei used Jynx for her Ice-typing. Jynx is also part Psychic. Will could lean more into Jynx's Psychic-typing to differentiate it from Lorelei's. Otherwise you run into an issue where you start preventing other trainers from using Pokémon differently just because a previous one had it. The reason Will didn't have an Espeon wasn't because they gave one to Red. Red's reasoning for having an Espeon is because his entire team revolves around the four starters and two one-of-a-kind Pokémon. His Espeon is the Eevee he got from Celadon City and it being an Espeon shows the love it had for him. As for Karen - giving her a Tyranitar thematically ruins the whole point of using Pokémon she likes. On top of that, Murkrow should have kept Pursuit instead of Faint Attack. Even with its buffed stats, it makes sense to make Murkrow be an underhanded fighter that'll make people think twice about switching out to another Pokémon. And then there's Lance. Hard disagree with Zapdos. Canonically speaking, Red is the one who caught Zapdos. It makes far more sense to have Lance replace one Dragonite with Kingdra. Yes, Clair has one. But they are siblings and it should reflect the difference in strength between the two of them and show that Clair respects Lance and wishes to be his equal. You opted to give Clair 3 of Lance's Pokémon and said her having 3 Dragonair was boring, but you left Lance with 3 unchanged Dragonite. The best way to show the difference in power with Kingdra would be to have Whirlpool's accuracy upped to at least 90, then have Kindra learn Whirlpool to trap and whittle down the player, protect itself with Protect, and overwhelm the player with Hydro Pump and Hyper Beam.
1:56 Red's Espeon is a reference to the manga where he saved an Eevee that was experimented on by Team Rocket to be able to evolve and de-evolve between Jolteon/Flareon/Vaporeon at will but when it stopped changing forms when it evolved into Espeon later in the series.
You miss the point here. The Gen 2 elite four is only supposed to be the beginning of the journey. They are meant to be a step up from the Johto gym leaders while preparing the way for the Kanto region to come. They are not meant to be the penultimate obstacle like in most games because that’s not the part that they play. They are intended to bridge the gap. So having threats like Exeggutor, Xatu, Muk, Crobat, Hitmonlee, Machamp, Umbreon, and Houndoom are fitting for the purpose that they play. Trying to turn them into some uber tier fighting force contradicts why the johto elite four is there. Johto is very much Kanto’s little brother and to make their elite four completely OP totally undermines that
i cant imagine how, if this romhack is meant to solve issues like kanto not feeling like a step up in difficulty, things will scale up even more in its e4 if the johto e4 is already powercrept like this. that being said, they definitely do need to be improved upon to a certain degree. but i wish more romhack designers would know when to use restraint. its a hard balance though.
I am looking forward to playing this for my channel. I love gen 2 and have spent many hours headbutting trees with my favorite gen 2 starter Typhlosion.
Awesome idea giving the Legendary Birbs to Trainers. I love Gen 2 Crystal Version, because was my 1st game on GBC, still have it up today. And seeing it be reconstructed with some love and care, with the respect for each typing trainer / gym leader, is so good to see and hear. I'm waiting this rom hack to be completed to play it. Also, all the changes you've been making is precise and coherent, with a awesome feeling of challenge and fun. Other thing are the 2 old E4 members that I feel it should be in game, even if it was some parallel event are Agatha and Lorelei, I really like them in Yellow, and also, they not being in Gen 2 is strange. Lorelei in Sevii Islands (but I don't know if they should be avaliable, because they say that the Volcano Eruption from Cinnabar Island may have submerged them with a Tsunami) and Agatha maybe retired in that isolated house of Lake of Rage or helping Mr. Fuji in Lavender Town.
It’s at this point that I realise that Gen 2 is a lore game. We know it’s not challenging, it’s not designed to be challenging, it’s designed for a message, and arguably conveys the core message stronger than any other game: pokemon are your friends, not tools for war. This is the generation that introduces the friendship mechanic, your pokemon get stronger when you befriend them. The your antagonists are set up in deliberate opposition to this message, and then shows them failing. Silver treats his pokemon like tools and is hostile to outside help, and he is punished for this, his Golbat cannot evolve and he cannot find anyone to perform his trade evolutions, thus he is underpowered for his final confrontation. Meanwhile Team Rocket are even nastier than in the first game, maiming and torturing pokemon and eventually hijacking the radio (your constant companion throughout the adventure), but they are are classic bullies, as soon as you stand up to them they crumble, they are revealed to be pathetic, like all bullies. I get it is a little anti-climactic, it certainly puzzled me as a child that the final "boss" was a nameless Executive, but that’s in keeping with the game's message. And then there is Karen, the embodiment of picking your favourites over strength, a demonstration that you can get to the top by optimising friendship….. which is where you kind of lost me on this video. Now I’m not totally opposed to changing up everyone’s teams to make them more challenging, and I’ve nothing against Karen getting a Tyranitar (mostly). I’m dissatisfied with the reasoning though. Everything seems to boil down to the fact the teams are not strong enough, and when it’s for the girl whose entire deal is that strength doesn’t matter, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This suggestion that she could never succeed with that stupid weak team…. and from there the implication is that she only has Tyranitar because it’s strong, not because it’s a favourite….. and that sucks.
There's this dude known as Pedro Araujo who makes animations that re-tell the story of Gen 1 and 2. I remember one of his videos show that Lance's Charizard is actually an offspring of Red's Charizard
You do an amazing job, fixing Crystal. I admire your work and knowledge of gen2 pokes, stats, mechanics, lore etc. That said, man, i wanna play your rom hack
I really like the lore you came up with for the legendary birds... I can't wait to play this romhack (and I haven't played a romhack in at least 5 years)
I actually really like what you did with the birds. Pretty fitting for Blaine too, since in the Adventures manga he’s sought out by another legendary fire type, being Entei. My only critique is that, with the changes you also made to Silver’s team, there’s two ace Ttars very close together in the story now. I suppose it works as a parallel, a trainer that learned to care for his Pokémon and a trainer that uses her favorites having the same ace, idk.
Love the idea of zapdos, I feel like I remember you saying you would do a mythical theme for Lance’s team rather than a second Dragon trainer? Bit surprised you’re leaving his other five Pokémon identical
in Gen 1, all of the elite 4 members were using 2 types; Lorelei had ice and water Bruna had fighting and rock Agatha had ghost and poison Lance had dragon and flying The game never said it outright, but that's clearly what the devs were going for, partially because there just weren't enough dragon/ghost types to go around. The idea was dropped in later generations, but not completely. Koga is poison/bug, Bruno is still fighting/rock, and Karen is dark/poison (a bit redundant...). Will is... just Psychic, as far as I can tell. Lance is still dragon/flying. Gen 3... all monotype. Though Steven was steal/rock/ground. Gen 4 only had 2 fire types, but Flint was all over the place with his team. By then, I think they completely forgot the idea of the Elite 4 using 2 types instead of just 1.
Always thought it would be fun if old rom hacks made specifically the elemental punches physical. Completely flipping around which pokemon had the best coverage, especially since they felt so similar to flamethrower, thunderbolt, and ice beam
I've been on board with everything you've put out so far, but Karen **has** to have all her normal team. That's the most significant thing about her: she just uses her favorites, not "powerful" Pokemon. It's probably the most iconic line to come out of gen 2 and to ignore that... idk, I think vileplume can work. Especially since silver had tyranitar as his ace and important story beat only 3 battles before.
I love love love your idea of giving the legendary birds to the trainers you mentioned. I'm probably going to hate going against them, but so what. It'll be epic!!
I think giving Lance a Zapdos would also fit the implied mythical creature theme- because the Thunderbird, like the dragon variants, is a mythical flying being. Another thought: Giving Will both Slow-Evos and a Girafarig fits a sort of theme of "twins".
When I saw you, fixing the very first gym, I thought to myself how amazing it would have been, playing the game, like that. Now, after seeing all these changes together, I want to play it... SO badly!
