Flamenco India - exploring the Romani diaspora | Oliver Rajamani | TEDxBermuda 

Both points are untrue. Spain has assimilated gypsies better than any other country. This has been widely recognised and praised internationally by the UN. Flamenco wasn't brought to Spain. It evolved in Andalusia from multiple influences centuries ago. It's Spain's national music both in a raw and classical form sung and danced all over the country by young and old gypsy and non gypsy. Some of it's biggest stars like Lola Flores, Paco de Lucia were not gypsies.

@Yo Al yeah!!! I lived there for four and half years in the south...so, I know what I'm talking about...get your head outta your four points of contact!!!!

@@TM-fu2we Where are your facts...???? your statement is bland at best... you have cognitive dissonance at best!!!

@@TM-fu2we lol west are double faced we have seen that throughout the histroy

@@TM-fu2we Paco de lucia were not gypsy ?? Are you sure about that ? All my life tought he is a gypsy from Spain ..

They do though. It's super informal, but they do recognize us. (I'm Hungarian Rom, not Irish. It's called adoption before anyone tries telling me that I'm not Romani.)

It’s honorable that India acknowledges us as a people and I do admire you sympathy, but understand this: we are Roma. Recognizing us as “Indian” isn’t really correct. We are, however, of Indian descent. Roma are a group of people in Europe and Middle East, who faced long persecution and rejection and yet maintain our pride and history. If you regard us as “Indian”, then you might as well call Turkish people Mongolians. I admire India and acknowledge we come from India. Roma are of Indian descent, but we are NOT Indian. We are a group of people with our own culture, the Roma.

@@Theblinger55 Also, we should be using "Romani", since even the Roma are the o.g. Rom and all Romani are Roma-descended, not all Romani people in Europe are Roma. My Sinti friends would never dare refer to themselves as "German", "Dutch", "Austrian" or "French Roma," the same way my Iberian Kale friends refer to themselves as "Spanish" or "Portuguese Roma'.

Christopher Quinn Yes, good point.

@@Theblinger55 Always nice to meet a fellow Rom. :) I wish more Rom were like us and other Romani activists (who are actually Romani) so that we could successfully John Oliver to do an episode on us or have Marvel stop insulting & Whitewashing us.

Unless you have some breaking archaeological news, Uruk in Sumeria, just a little northwest of India, is the oldest civilization. India is pretty old though.

@@jorhay1 The oldest evidence found in Urek in Sumeria was around 6000 years old and the latest evidence found from Indus valley civilisation is found to be 8000 years old, and I think it is of post harrapan era. So you may now decide which civilisation is more older

Most village names traditionally end with ur in india pak Afghan, not far from uruk u mention.

@@umashankardikshit719 there is literally no proof of that at all. Carbon dating puts Indus valley at 3500 years, not 8000.

@@thomascambrion4408 bruh I am talking about carbon dating only, some researchers have used carbon dating on animal remain and pottery fragments which concludes that they are 8000 year old

It is a song from west Rajasthan. i listen it often

@@gkexams It's actually a raga in Uttar Pradesh and a lot of the songs we sing in UP. Most Hindustani gharanas are from UP and there are also the Rajasthani gharanas like the Jaipur so the similarity is obvious

@Yo Al you need to read more history & Books 📚, Enjoy 😉

South Indians have learned the art of hijacking narratives from the British. You see when it comes to taking credit for anything North Indian they say Indian if it is Southern they say South Indian. If it is something shameful from North they say it is North Indian. They have been desperately trying to establish Tamil Nadu as the cradle of Indian civilization. All the dates around Sangam literature are concocted to support there theories. Whole narrative around Tamil being the oldest language is also fabricated. When basis of calculating age is inscriptions , the Tamil script itself is derived from Brahmi.

Breakbeat Era. 👉💕💕💘💘💖💖👉🤩

Come back to India brother. We love you.

Ive always hot Along with Indian people had them as roomates ? Close friends, co workers when i drove a taxi, couple gril friands always tjrough it was odd that they would approch me for directions or feel comfortable around me because i am western and look mediterian but many said they can see the trace of acient india in my êyes

@@celtiberian07 marry a Indian girl...Your upcoming generation will connect with India more.

@@saouraavjyotisaikia5224 most Indian Girls only stay with Indians of their Cast thats Why i was shocked that Indian woman have been attracted to me and dated me. The first one was a sic and had green êyes i thought she was latin other wise i would have figured i didnt have a chance others have been guyanese . They seem to like Real mèn traditional type of guys with masculinity unlike Chinse and other east asians and seem to fit their standard of what is psyically handsome lol i am older 43 kinda old for mariage and starting a family . I dont care the race of a woman so long as shes attractive to me and treats me right and respects me as a man . Why do u know any Indian woman on New York around my age attractive looking for husband?

@@saouraavjyotisaikia5224 my brother my days is maybe only 10% indian i would like to keep some of that history Alive and meet Someone whose family had a simalar path. The Indian tjat i have is of mixed cast and no no for many from india

The word came from Doma not as you suggesting

@@Chen-gl9hm ,😂, if you don't know anything better shut your mouth and listen what others say. FYI, Doma itself is originated from Sanskrit.

@@Chen-gl9hm doma is different. There is domari community in turkey

​@@LightLoveLaugh domari community was also from india

@@umakantapradhan5745 i know but that is not what I said to the other person. domari and romani are different communities even if both came out of India

We indians will never discriminate our our own brother and sisters it is not our trait. We have lived and we will live and grow. ❤️❤️❤️

Love from India ❤️

Yours ancestors are our ancestors too lots of love form India once called yours land ❤❤❤😊😊😊

Read through the top comments and replies. You will find that the Roma are not looking to integrate with India. They are proud of their culture as it is and do not wish to change that in any way. It is hard for Indians to comprehend that concept. So, yeah... I think we should be more sensitive to their culture and outlook, and stop saying things like "India should take them back", "welcome home", etc. Some of them are vocal about clarifying that they are NOT Indians and do not wish to be identified as Indian. 🙏👍🙂

I never really said 'India should take them back's or anything that you seem to be telling me. In fact, I explicitly mentioned that they're not even Indians. I simply said India should accept their cultural and ancestral relations with the Roma people. I'm half Roma myself, so I'm not really sure who you're preaching your monologue to.

@@vedicwarriorOriginal i am so confused btw ok if they ever need us we ll be their for them

@@lll2282 Uh oh.. looks like my comment got taken off for some reason. Hopefully, you got the email notification.

Yes.i agree with you

Rajasthan, 1000yrs ago ranjasthan8,Punjabi, haryana people migrated to west

@@anuragamngo5563 rajsthani people talk in hindi btw, they just have different dialect called as marwadi

what's in english please?

@@gitana7249 like fish without water.

this people wherever they came from....evolved and took influence of blood and culture where ever they where passing through...and so flamenco evelved with a huge amount of flamenco is from europeans, jewish and arab culture....finally nomadic lifestyle it is the perfect human lifestyle...without creating borders and claiming land for long time...

And completely wrong (or false), by the way...

Egypt and Nubia oldest civilization on earth everything stems from Africa the cradle of humankind and civilization🌍

I think nahi they must.

Yes.we love Romani people.They are india diaspora.india must do something for them.

Indian touchables and Roma people have same origins. Basically if Roma people didn't escape, they would have been untouchable slaves too. So I think we will have to show some basic humanity to the people living with us before we try to win the trust of their sister community living outside.

@@JObhihosoho Bro you have read wrong history.........These were the hindu people taken by islamic invaders as slaves.

@@lightyagami6095 The audacity to tell others that their methods of knowledge are wrong! No questions, no demand for explanation or sources, just plain announcement of hegemony on all information and knowledge! Baman logic doesn't work anymore.....bro!!

Namaste from India 🙏🏻❤️

OPRE ROMA 🙏🏽💙❤💚

🕉 🕉 🕉 🙏 👋 🙏

We Indians are here when our cousins want to come home.

Do you know who is our 1st independent Indias education minister is maullana abul kalam Azad..... What do you expect from this guy...... This person is congress man the entire history he wrote in our history book was about how mugals was good how Akbar was great... How khilji was good..... The fact is we are brainwashed by Muslim education minister his life motto was destroyed and brainwashed all hindu people mind because so they hate himself being Hindu and hindu culture ..... That's why we don't know who is Romani people why they are flee from India

Why others should learn about them when they don't make any single attempt to learn about others? Most of them even prefer living in close communities. All is needed to know is already know... They come from India and they suffered persecution...as many others. further info would change my life? Don't think so... Even they themselves don't know their own history.

It is now included in school's CBSE syllabus, my son knew about Roma people, when I checked his textbook it is mentioed that Roma people are Indians who migrated to Europe...much love to our Roma brothers and sisters

@@GhosTOperatorTrader I hope you know that the mother community of the Roma people and the untouchables of India is the same. India doesn't talk about Roma people much because then India will have to also talk about why Roma people left India and how a whole class of Indian original residents were pushed into slavery and untouchability and exodus.

The same happens to dark skin people all over the world

Amen 🙏..

​@@djfrankie7586Jai Hind

Love from ur Indian sister

gypsy is a slur. stop using it.

The south Indian singing is purely from Tamilnadu and not northwestern India. There may be similairities in style in Rajasthan but opari from south is very ancient and purely to Tamilnadu. I believe the narrator is showing the ancient roots of Roma people whose genetic origins actually are of south India though they left India from Rajasthan after livings there for centuries and adopting customs and north indian language.

Love from Roma people my brother Indian 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳❤️❤️❤️❤️

@@romanochavo829 love and respect from Indian sister

Miau, compadre!

He is Indian

We came from Sumeria /. Karnak. 💕💕💘🕉️👉😻

I'm romani and yes they come from South Asia Northwestern India/ the Middle east c: from Punjabi regions and kashmiri and many others in india

Yeah man i am from ajmer and this was so beautiful, i cried listening to it was so beautiful, even though i barely understood the marwadi elements because even for someone from rajasthan understanding marwadi music, it is tough to understand the lyrics atleast for me.

I don't think so. Perhaps in some styles. I think most influences they got were from the Andalusians (al-Andalus), Ottomans and Greeks. Gypsy music seems to be very different. I think Gypsy music in general is an accumulation and mix-pot of different styles that the 'indigenous' majority (non-gypsy) would not come up with, because Gypsies would be more open minded to exotic influences, because they were - and still are - diverse themselves. An example is Flamenco. I can hear influences in Flamenco from classical Spanish music as well as north-african and Arabic. There are other influences in Flamenco as well. Let's be honest... Only a gypsy would creat such a melting pot.

Indian culture have always been adopting to the enviornment

Yes, sourc of music is SAM Vedas 😊 🙏 ❤

@jerrylouiswiththethickness6403 I personally didn't know the Roma people were present in Al Andalus. But my main point is that actually Gypsy music and the typical sounds of gypsy music are actually very different compared to ancient local styles. So, if you look up Andalusian classical music like that of ibn Bajja or even classical Spanish music like that of the cantigas, it will be very different from what is contemporarily considered as flamenco music or gypsy music. A lot of flamenco music - in my opinion at least - sounds very oriental. The use of phrygian scale contributes to that ofcourse. However if you listen to old music of Spain and al-Andalus, it doesn't really sound oriental. So, my opinion is that the "orientalness" of a lot of flamenco music today must be an influence of the Roma people, who are oriental in origin.

@jerrylouiswiththethickness6403 Even though Andalusi music definitely has influences from the east, and Ibn Bajja managed to integrate the eastern influences with the local styles, Andalusi music as a whole is not that similar to music in the east, for similar reasons as to why north-west-european classical music is different to eastern music. This is largely due to the use of different scales and the nubah structure instead of maqaam structure like in the east. Basically the musical theory is different. Use of instruments and playstyles differs as well. Actually, the cantigas de santa maria is the closest you'll actually get to Andalusi music. Not only does the cantigas actually contain old Andalusian pieces (like from nubah al istihlal or nubah al Maya), but King Alfons X gathered artists from all over Iberia to participate in making music in his court. This includes Andalusian musicians. Add to that that both musical styles come from Iberia. Hence, the Andalusian influence in the cantigas and the closeness to it. When I say Andalusian music it's not to be confused with the contemporary province of Andalusia in Spain, but rather historical 'islamically' ruled Iberia, which stretched up north to Zaragoza even, where Ibn Bajja was from.

Kathak not bharatnatyam