Flatzoid Traps and Debunks his own optical argument 

By the way, NASA is a whole bunch of experts. Not just one guy, they're a whole team of experts. They are really good at what they do; so if you saying they're wrong then there's something wrong with you. 😉

If flerfs didn't move the goalposts they wouldn't be flerfs.

let's please remember the 3 different (some say contradicting too) properties of optical zoom according to flerfs: 1. bring boats back up 2. push mountains down 3. does nothing at all "because it's zooming"

Flatzoid: "Varying focal length makes a big difference to the position of elements in an image, you should trust professionals" Also Flatzoid: Accepts a challenge from a professional to compare four images with greatly varying focal length and cant tell them apart, to the point where he doesn't even notice any difference whatsoever between at least two of them. He will claim the win here, for no reason other than he can't admit when he's wrong, and oh boy is he wrong.

Please tell your dog we're all grateful for him supervising you making these very awesome videos. Much appreciated.

Funny how he completely ignored the difference in height of the tall grass relative to the girl in the photo, which alone proves they were taken at different heights.

It's comical how often flat earthers "forget" their claims, or the original point of a discussion. They feel the need to "win" arguments by any means necessary. Surely, it was no coincidence that he messed up the top left photo.

I gotta feel badly for Photography Online getting dragged into the nonsense of flerf world.

Wait a minute. Don't flerfs keep telling us that a longer focal length brings a ship in the distance up into view? But at the same time the longer focal length pushes distant subjects down into invisibility?

At this point, I'm convince that Flatzoid is just saying words to keep his listeners engaged, but hasn't got a clue what he's actually hearing or saying. The lights are on, but no one is home. Keep on humiliating him, Dave. You do far more work than the average flat earther is willing to do.

Flatzoid, because sovereign citizens need someone to call stupid too.

I consider myself a reasonable person, but I really have a hard time wrapping my head around why people like Flatzoid are standing themselves in the way of learning. It almost seems that they predetermined they are gonna win every challenge, or that everything they come up with will be correct and needs to be defended, no matter the amount of nonsense it contains. Can they really not just admit that they are wrong sometimes?

Is flatzoid confusing zoom with a motion picture dolly zoom? That’s the shot in movies in which the background recedes as the person in the foreground gets closer. Jaws probably has the most famous example. Which is done by moving the camera physically closer while simultaneously zooming out. I betcha flatzoid has that on the brain as he barks “zoom!” in that clip at the end. Edit: still doesn’t make mountains disappear though.

The annoying thing is it doesn't matter how much you corner him with his own arguments, he'll just use a combination of cherry picking, goal post moving, misrepresentation, straw manning and ultimately name calling to just declare a win anyways.

You can always tell when flatzoid is about to debunk himself, he opens his mouth!

Flatzoid is such a weird guy. Its so strange that he never thinks that maybe, just maybe, he is wrong on this topic.

*"He ended up at top left."* That really gave me a laugh. He was even more 'spot on' than what he intended.

BRILLIANT example with the spotter scope. That deserves a short of its own or something, because it is a complete debunk in a nice tidy package.

Here’s the real problem with Flatzoid’s assertion: Longer focal length is zooming. And Flatzoid is asserting zooming in causes background to get lower. What happened to zooming in brings ships back into view? By his logic zooming in causes ships to disappear not bringing them back.

If i got a penny everytime a flerf debunks his own argument i'd be able to buy SpaceX

Flatzoid is unable to ever admit when he is wrong. I have lost track of the number of times I've seen him claim that A is true, then have someone go through and systematically show why actually B is true, only to turn round and claim that he was saying that B was true all along, and that the person who showed his original assertion to be wrong has actually proven him right. He will sit there, listening to all the reasons he is wrong, smugly smiling along and then claim that every word said magically proves his completely opposite assertion correct. He cannot accept that he is ever wrong, so in his mind he never is. He is genuinely delusional.

so funny how he decides to trust one "group of professionals" and not a way bigger "group" (nasa)

Honestly, given his pixel by pixel comparison last time, I'm afraid those bouys moving between shots are going to have him bogged down for days.

I commented something like this under the other video, but I just wanted to repeat it: If I get what Fartzoid's been saying correctly, when you take a picture of something in front of a distant mountain, changing the focal length of the camera's optics will make the mountain appear taller or shorter in frame, depending on the focal length. Now, all Fartzoid has to do is to grab a camera, two lenses, a tripod and hike out to ... well... literally any place on earth with a mountain, tower or whatever in the distance, set up the tripod and make two images with two vastly different lenses. One image should have the distant object in the background appear much smaller than in the other. And for reference, he can use a fixed object (like a pole, bench, tree or whatever) in the foreground. It's quite literally a matter of an hour, tops, to produce those two images to prove his point. It's all he'd have to do, to prove his point. _Yet he doesn't._ Cause he's an idiot. Or lazy. *Or both.*

I love the casual ease with which Dave not only crushes the flerfers, but completely pulverises their arguments, melts them down, and remodels them into bulletproof evidence for round earth.

Flatzoid: yeah the mountains disappear Also Flatzoid: see, a pixel disappeared, I win

"Flatzoid's Compression" sounds like the name of a spinal column condition; hopefully it should be treatable with massive doses of factual information. One question, though: Why would Flatzoid think the compression would only occur in a downward direction? Wouldn't the compression effect he claims affect the image in all directions, centered at the middle of the view? If it's a lens effect, what happens when the camera is oriented at 90° or 180° to "down"?

Just curious, but if the focal length supposedly makes the mountain drop down, how does the lens know which direction is "down"? If that was the case and you turned the lens upside-down, wouldn't that make the mountains move up? I don't even understand how that would work.

"...background pushed down." Why down? Why not up, or sideways? What is down?

Keep dunkin on em bro, you're doing humanity a service by calling out these dummys 👍 eventually they'll run out of shitty arguments and just yell, cry, and scream about how they're right. Some of them are already doing it 😂

Flatzoids moved the goalposts so far theyre now obscured by curvature.

Couldn't help but notice a few telltale habits of Flatzoid. Things you only see in a very select group of people. When using Photography Online as a source that agreed with him, Flatzoid said that they were experts and knew what they were doing. But he didn't just praise them. He put them on an untouchable pedestal. "They are _really_ good at what they do, so if you're saying they're wrong, then there's something wrong with _you."_ This sort of "the people who agree with me are unquestionably brilliant and accurate, how dare you say otherwise" comment is pretty standard narcissistic behavior, and far less normal in well-adjusted rational thinkers. It's a tactic used to bully naysayers into believing they have no real, legitimate criticism. "An expert said it, and you're not an expert, so you MUST be wrong because they CAN'T be." It's manipulation, intended for use on an emotional level rather than an evidentiary one. Experts are not some flawless, godlike entity that can do no wrong. They CAN make mistakes, and it's not fair to assume that they do everything perfectly the way Flatzoid does for this mountain-drop video. Even Dave, who's extremely solid in his photography knowledge, admits to a few mistakes of his own in this very video. And that's another important point: honest people admit when they were wrong. The entire point Dave was specifically debunking with this four-image test was dropped and ignored in favor of an "I win because there are tiny differences", despite his initial claim being _soundly_ refuted by even a cursory glance at the images. But he didn't admit to being wrong before and then restate his case in different terms. He just pretended the offending statement never happened. He refuses to acknowledge the win, because he thinks it makes him look weak. If he pretends he was _always_ talking about tiny differences, it gives off an "I was right all along" vibe to people not paying close enough attention, all while he's being steadily pushed back and forced to retreat with the goalposts in hand. Let me say this again: This is manipulation. This is the action of a person who places every scrap of their self-worth on how brilliant they APPEAR to be, and how many "bad guys" they can say they've conquered (whether they ever actually did or not). It is stock-standard, Narcissist 101 behavior, and should not be tolerated. I do wish to point out that this is not an actual diagnosis of any kind. I am not saying Flatzoid IS a narcissist, I am only saying that he is ACTING like one. These traits _can_ be seen in other people, even potentially those not part of the Dark Triad, given specific-enough circumstances. While I can't know anything with certainty, especially from my limited knowledge of him, it is at least clear that he has developed dangerous traits. Traits great for impressing a crowd of loyal onlookers, and atrocious for seeking real truth in the world. Don't be like Flatzoid. And definitely don't follow people who act as he does. It's a trap that can consume your entire life if not caught in time. Such is the strength of what, to us, appears as nothing more than petulant and downright childish behavior.

It's brave as a non-photographer to start debating about focal lengths with a photographer.

How to be always right: claiming A or NOT A. E.g: tomorrow it will rain or not rain. Or: the background will move or not move. The sentence is always true.

This doesn't correlate with flerfs zooming in on ships to "bring them back over the horizon". Surely they would drop over the horizon even more if Flatzoid were ever right about anything.

Your dedication is astonishing All I can say is there is clearly no dipping of the background whatsoever. Everything is exactly where it is in every image besides minor moving objects on the lake or the clouds obviously

I eagerly await another video from Failzoid where he totally embarrasses himself even further and carries on digging that hole.

I’m really really loved your explanation with the telescope and spotting scope. One thing I’d like to add… if the lenses are circular, they have rotational symmetry… so then where is this “down” bias coming from?!?

I’m not sure flatzoid even understood what he was hearing when he watched those videos. His response of nodding & agreeing is very similar to what I’ve always done when talking with someone when I don’t understand what they’re talking about, or when I’m sitting in class, listening to a physics lecture, finding myself completely lost🤣

As the great James Randi always pointed out in his psychic debunks, getting 50% right is no better than what you can achieve by random chance. He'd do just as well answering based on a coin toss. Which could also be said about his experimental methods.

flatzoid claimed a giant mountain would be shifted below a tower, so you dont really have to worry about pixelaccurate images. he already lost in your first video^^

I've taken a few pictures at 600 mm over the last year and I happen to live in quite mountainous terrain. So just to be absolutely clear: No, zooming _does not_ change anything in your image apart from how large objects appear. That would require displacement, which a zoom does not provide. I have literally no idea how Flatzoid could claim any different; he could take any camera of his choosing and debunk anything he says with ease.

You put more effort into that video than Flatzoid really deserves

Is it possible to use 2 tripods for the big lens - one for the camera and one for the lens, adjusted for height. Also, top left image - is Flatzoid throwing his hat in the race? He really wants that award. Edit: 😅I should've watched till the end.

i said this on scimandans channel as well.i always love how some of the best arguments against flat earth, are their own arguments

Lenses are mysterious, unpredictable creatures. Sometimes they bring things back up over the horizon. Sometimes they push things down over the horizon. Sometimes they do nothing at all to objects and the horizon. You never know what they'll do!

The patience it must take to literally argue with a crazy person is extraordinary.

Dave’s videos are not only a stick in the wheel for the flers, but they are ALWAYS backed up by facts and demonstrations. I must also mention Martymer, who appeared just recently, addressing the stoopidities from the flatheads, and like Dave always back up his claims with facts and demonstrations. Scimandan has his style, but Dave and Martymer leaves nothing to discuss, unless anyone is eager du deny facts.

Fartzoid has climbed the ladder to the top of the flat earth heap, and he's not about to step down from that first rung for anybody.

just a suggestion, but you should make a reveal video at the same time as you make the challenge video, and then make it private/unlisted, that way when the time comes to do the reveal you have a time-stamped version of the video that shows you did have a predetermined result to help defuse accusations of changing the results to stymie the flat earthers. You can make the full debunk video after the challenge has been attempted, but reference the reveal and un-private it so that viewers can go to it and see what you had. maybe something like each photo, zoom them out, and then show their meta-data in sequence, no voice over no special effects required.

I’m still confused by what mechanism does flatzoid believe that the light from a distant mountain knows what focal length you are using; in order for it to no longer appear in the image cast on the camera sensor? Yet somehow in the 4 test images Dave presented. The light from the background has decided it’s going to ignore its previous behaviour of adjusting its path due to what focal length is used. So the background appears in exactly the same relative position to the foreground regardless of which focal length lens is used. Is every photon think just as it leaves the surface of the background. “I’m headed for a 150mm lens so I’m going to go in a straight line for about 900m then I’m going to bend my trajectory upwards over the top of the camera. Oh no! It’s globeearther Dave (in the pay of the only purveyors of science in history- NASA) McKeegan taking the photo. I’m going to travel straight into the lens ‘cos he’s making a video about this sort of thing.”

Flatzoid is absolutely reliable. He fails every time as expected.

That first photo where he thought made the mountains dissappear you can tell the 200mm photo was shot from a much lower height.

Great video as usual Dave! The “top left” reference was gold! 😂 At the end, Flatzoid by accident agreed that it wouldn’t make any difference “because, you’re zooming in” on the video from the Slanted Lens, as if zooming in is not changing the focal length! Double fail, and goalpost moving! It’d be very funny, if instead of 12 frames on the new comparison challenge you had 11, but he might have been triggered by that number of frames then! 😂

I’m not a photographer, but I can clearly see a glaring problem with the two pictures of the girl. The 200mm shot is clearly taken closer to the ground because you can see two things happening. First, look at the plane of the grass. You can clearly see the grass taking up half the shot in the 12mm shot, yet only 1/4 of the 200mm shot. Also, the average height of the grass goes to her hips at 12mm but only to the bottom of her coat in the 200mm shot. Second, look at the height of the telephone pole in relationship to the mountains and also her elbow. It starts near her shoulder the mountains are below her elbow. In the 200mm shot, that same pole is now down by her hand which would now put the mountains probably below her coat. I have no idea how Flatzoid could go on about focal lengths when he can’t even spot problems that “normal” people can see.

17:05 And shouldn't when they zoom in with their camera of choice Nikon P1000 "to bring boats back to view" an opposite thing happening when zooming in if this was the case? I mean make them disappear instead of "bringing them back to view"? Flath Earthers, never change.

I love your videos. You are probably the GOAT when it comes to debunking this madness. I love how even tempered you are. Suggestion: For those of us that own dogs that shed, we have to be careful what color t shirt we wear on camera. Hope you dont take this as a slight. Just offering a tip that might level up your game a bit.

How I would like it if lotto numbers were as predictable as guys like Flatzoid. In the comments of the last video several people correctly predicted that if Flatzoid were to accept the challenge he would go for irrelevant pixel differences while completely ignoring his own original claim about a miraculously downward directed "drop in the background" for both the picture with the girl and - more importantly - the Blackpool Tower image. 🤣

Amazing how "lens compression" has no effect on the horizontal and no effect on the vertical other than to fold out distant parts just above the horizon line.

The genuine hysterical truth that flerfs are so focused on their cherry-picking that they continually post their own debunks, saving us all the time and effort doing it.

Hi Dave, great video as always. Do you think you could provide direct downloads of each of the 12 images? I have some ideas for how to tell them apart, but RU-vid's compression screws them up somewhat.

You should turn the camera upside down. Imagine how much more of the earth you could see with a long focal length somehow pulling the objects up and into view! Or is the lens somehow working with the electrostatic mumbo jumbo of the earth to keep down in the right direction?

Been waiting for this one! Yay!

"Yeah! It's because of zooming!" That dude is completely lost and beyond any reasoning. He is good for interesting content, though - just not on his own channel.

Flatzoid is very hypocritical when it comes to experts. Sometimes experts matter but not when he disagrees lol. Lol comparing the same photo in top left so poetic 🤭 He's always shifting the goal posts and debunking himself. I told him I think he does it on purpose 🙂 Irony is lost on flatzoid 🤣

Why would the lens, which is circular, cause the mountain to move down, out of shot and not up or sideways? Could Flatzoid address that?

But ultimately, your test proved the background doesnt drop based on focal length. He couldnt compare a drop, he could only go off of background blur.

Flatzoid probably will claim that the goalpost has moved because he used a different focal length. Great video @Dave McKeegan. Like you told me before, it turned out better than we hoped.

You should have taken images of goalposts because I'm sure they will move if Flatz dares to attempt your new challenge

Love that Flatzoid out smarted himself in his analysis

I appreciate your approach to debunking flat earth. You treat people with much more respect than do most other debunking channels. I think that’s the better approach to changing minds rather than simply hurling insults. Of course it’s a ridiculous thing to believe the earth is flat, but I think there are reasons people believe in flat earth that go beyond evidence, and making fun of them isn’t going to change their minds.

It's a million times obvious in the right-side picture of the girl that the angle to the telephone pole is drastically different. Since this doof is paying so much attention to detail, why didn't he notice so much missing telephone pole?

Only 2 minutes in, and you've already dealt Flatzoid a massive blow. Nicely done!

Question. What's "DOWN" on a photograph taken with a circular lens? Why not up, or sideways. Hmm?

More likely explanation for the differences in the photos with the girl - for some inexpiable reason, the photographer knelt down for the one photo, whereas the others were taken while standing up, thus changing the perspective.

If the lens is pushing the background down, what if you turn the camera up side down? 😊

Any apparent motion of the goalposts is due to pesperctive.

Out of these 12 the only four I can guess which were taken first (not the focal length, I have no clue about that) are 9, 1, 7, and 4 and I can only tell that from the position of the birds on the water; I'd love to see Flatzoid try and say he knows which is which because of pixel differences despite the photos being taken over a period of time meaning they would not be a perfect match no matter what because of cloud cover and wildlife moving

It would be cool if something like 3 of the 12 images were shot from exactly the same camera and lens with exactly the same settings but just a minute or so between each shot so they're not entirely identical.

It's clear to see in his photographs that not only the mountain, but the building, power pole, and the entire grass field beyond the first few feet have been purposely brought down behind the foreground by lowering the camera. They forgot their own sacred rule: "The horizon rises (or lowers) to eye level!"

By now I’m pretty convinced Flatzoid knows full well the earth is indeed a globe. I’m got him classified in the grifter drawer.

Flatzoid doesn't remember what he says day to day.

Flatzoid really wants that top left award. He is subconsciously craving it.

I just find it hilarious that he went from “obviously it will make the entire mountain disappear” to comparing the relative movements of individual pixels and not even noticing that it’s the exact same picture. And he’s still sticking to his guns. 😂😂😂

Me, an intellectual watching the videos because guy petting dog:

How is a lens supposed to "push down" objects in the background anyway? Optical theory and basic geometry tells us that moving the camera will change the relationship between objects in the scene because the viewing angles and sight lines have moved. This introduces parallax and perspective shifts. But if you just change the lens, and _don't_ move the camera, then none of the geometry of the scene has actually changed. The sight lines are the same, the perspective is the same, nothing has shifted to obscure any objects in the scene. How do they imagine that the sight lines to the mountains in the background have changed?

This is a perfect test ! However, as the flat earther said (can't remember his name again 😅), "even if I'm wrong, I'm right, because...... reasons" 🤣🤣 So of course you'll never manage to convince him or anyone else who only seek to confirm his bias. But for anyone else who genuinelly looks for actual educational content based on facts and reproducible experiments, these videos are really excellent. Thanks PS : many so called "debunkers" would have a lot to learn from your videos instead of just mocking what they're trying to debunk. Because in doing so, I believe they are pretty much using the same way of making science as those they debunk..... "I'm right and you're wrong, but detailing why would take too much time and effort and I have 3 videos a week to publish"

You can tell just how much Flatzoid knows about photography because he's using Google Slides 🤣

Is it just me, or does Flatzoid's use of fancy grid lines around 5:51 make it abundantly clear that structures on the horizon are not moving up/down? Does that in itself not debunk the entirety of the theory?

So tiny variations in photographs of varying focal lengths are not imperfections of camera geometry, but irrefutable proof of the earth being flat. Riiiight.... makes total sense.

Failzoid never miss the opportunity to fail.

1:16 This is not true completely. When a portrait is taken at many focal lengths, facial features are "compressed" or exaggerated... But this is for an up close subject and has the xamera moving back to compensate for the zoom of the focal length... It shouldn't change distant images.

if I had time on my hands I might hazard a guess at the order the photos were taken in by the movement of the floats on the lake. but it would still be a random guess what order the lenses were swapped out in.

I suspect Flatgzoid is a Young Earth Creationist, so one need not expect honesty from him.

It always cracks me up when flerfs talk to actual photographers online. I get blocked everytime when tell me they are going to teach me something about photography. I ask them what focal length is about the same as the eyes focal length. They tell me that has nothing to do with photography and I tell them.....ah yes but it does lol. I get blocked every single time. Also, doppler radar is their kryptonite. They can ask me if have I ever been to earth lol. The tantrums are funny.

Want to completely destroy flat earthers? "A 15 degrees per hours drift." Thanks Bob. 🙂

Man, if it were me, I'd have taken 4 photos with the exact same lens but ever so slightly different settings and let flatzoid go on and on about which is which when they're all literally the exact same. Considering he already kinda did that to himself and still came to conclusions based on two of the images being accidentally the same, I'm a hundred percent sure he would have fell for it.

I'm wondering if flatzoid has arguments with himself. If he can't decide what he believes in he's must be really screwed in the head. 🤔

The Grift goes ever on... I give him *zero* credit for getting *anything* right. He Eeny-Meenied it.

At about 1:36 the picture on the left shows a power pole & the mountains are near the bottom of the pole The picture on the right shows only the top of the power pole so the mountains are blocked by the grass My conclusion is this proves nothing