Fluid Motion Frames Could TRANSFORM Star Citizen? 

It is now available on 6000 series

You bought a 7000 series card just to test this and share all your findings with the community. You should be knighted by Chris for the service your provide for the SC-Community!

I find it amusing that CIG has not utilized any of those techs yet. They barely added HDR support and they are working on ray tracing, but FSR 3.0 and DLSS 3.5 frame gens is something we needed yesterday. But I would argue the most important thing is the addition of AMD AntiLag and Nvidia Reflex to increase the latency... latency spikes is the worst problem of the which is something that usually happens from CPU limitations. Very nice work on the video

Amazing content! I’m gonna pick up my 7900xtx today to check the things out

As someone who is very latency sensitive, this bothers me too much to be worth it. Thank you for testing this! had hopes it wouldn't be as bad as DLSS felt when I got to try it but sadly it is. That said with more time and newer generations latency might go down and it will actually be useable in somewhat competitive games.

Ive been running Star Citizen with FMF on since the driver released. 6950xt GPU. While the server lag is definitely more noticeable in places like Area 18, its still a mich more pleasant experience overall. I lock my native FPS at 60 and have no issues hitting 120 fps with FMF on about 75-80% of the time. Because its not a twitch shooter, the frame time lag isn't that big of a deal. As to blur and ghosting, I'm not seeing it very often.

Thanks @tenpoundfortytwo - this was really interesting seeing how this technology fits in with a game with real performance challenges at the moment no matter what hardware you run it on. It sounds to me like there could be a place for this technology in Star Citizen in cinematic areas of the game where the improved performance would help but there isn't much input from the player. For example, perhaps the 3rd person camera could have this technology turned on as input lag is unlikely to ever be an issue in 3rd person. I hope the ghosting/blurring issue can be resolved. I'm very keen to see what a native nvidia solution could look like.

Thank you for the nice summary. I tested with the high-end PC and found out that when native framerate drops under 55fps (FMF ~100 fps) It starts to feel weird and ghosting is more noticeable. One way to see FMF failing on any framerate is to scroll up and down friend or server list on mobiglas. I suggest that FMF helps, when not using mouse, mid to high-end PC to smooth out the visual experience if you can pass that ~60ish fps mark. I know Star Citizen is sometimes ( in cities) is limited by the current optimization and not by the hardware thus average fps even if it is over 60fps feels and looks "shaky". The reason might be the really bad 1% fps because when fake frame is shown, pacing algorithm show real new frame which was already ready. Then another pacing but if the workload was longer than pacing algorithm thought it it is already too late to fix it. Fake frame is shown but it does not have real frame to show yet but again suddenly workload is less and pacing needs to be different. This zig-zag stutter on cities I think makes FMF feel bad even with high framerate

Was playing some CP77 last night and the smearing/morphing of objects from the frame generation can get really noticeable in the heavy scenes. It's so much more immersion-breaking than just having lower quality graphics.

That reminds me SLI. Almost double the fps but there doesn't seem to be much more fps., not to mention the additional input lag.

AMDs FG is really good working with V-Sync on, basically you should have at least 60-70% frames of your monitor refresh rate (like 70+ fps on 120Hz monitor) and then FG in combination with V-Sync gets you up to monitor refresh rate and you won't feel any jitter and pretty much smooth fps...

I mean Chris Roberts said that about intel optane back in 2014 making a turd into anything other than a turd is probably not possible.

I tried it last week end on my 7900 xtx and I got between100 to 200 fps in city and over 200 fps in space. this feel very fluid and I love it :)

I have a 5600x, 6600gpu, 32 gig ram. Was getting about 44 fps flying in New Babbage. Now I get over 80. Used RTSS to lock driver frames to 60 fps (monitor is 60 hz) and now I can lowfly at 60 fps almost anywhere. Magic for my mid-low end pc

Fluid motion will work only on low movement frames, it will not turn on in high speed movements like turning around fast.

Such a subtle flex that you have the actual min spec that CIG can't seem to bother with updating officially. Cheers, homie.

Not sure if you are aware but this preview driver also brings 90 and 120 fps recording options through the AMD Software. I used it to take a look at FSR 3 in Forspoken by recording at 120fps and slowing the footage by 50% in post. Works quite well. Not sure how it would work with AFMF. Speaking of which its important to remember its in beta and not going live till next year.

You unintentionally buried the lede: You get a better frame gen experience from a higher BASE performance, both in terms of latency and visual artifacts. We're lucky it's not more of a mess in SC, since AMD recommends 60fps minimum and SC spends much of its time below that especially on a min spec.

This is what in the release notes : AFMF is recommended to be enabled for games running at a minimum fps of 55 FPS for 1080p displays, and 70 FPS for 1440p or above displays.

how about capping fps with fsr flm ? Capping the fps to your monitor's vertical sync rate is recomended (-2 to 3 fps under maximum) ...

Interesting.. But shouldn't the Vulkan implementation alleviate a lot of this? We'll finally be able to utilize multi-cores effectively, reduced CPU overhead in games, better multi-threading support, better memory mgmt/allocation, cross-platform support (i.e. linux?). Basically my understanding is that the Vulkan implementation will be shifting the load from CPU towards GPU.

This is a great look at the technology and its early state, and how it’s not a crutch for developers to avoid optimizing their games. It takes us from 60 to 100-120 fps basically, but needs Reflex / Aniti-Lag to reduce the input penalty / inconsistency vs what’s shown on screen. Another part is that I see people in the comments mention it only works on low motion scenes, which isn’t accurate. Frame Gen works better the more frames you have natively. The more action or how busy the scene is, or how fast you turn the camera, the more native frames you need to keep up with the action and avoid that interpolation smear. Frame gen will be monumental in achieving high framerates where input lag differences from 240 fps to 480 fps are at only 4.2 ms to 2.1 ms, as opposed to 16.6 ms at 60 fps and 25 ms at 40 fps, down to only 8 ms for 120 fps. And that’s without considering input latency from the game/controls, Reflex and Amd Anti-Lag will be very important going forwards. In general, it will usher in the possibility for 4k 120 fps gameplay as a baseline of PC gamers with Frame Gen, increasing that to 4k 200-240 fps

thank you for the amazing videos and science behind this

First of lets be honest here. Both Nvidia and AMD frame gen tech are aimed to provide extra frames only when you already have rock solid 50-60 fps at desired resolution and graphics quality in GPU bound scenario. Period. Then FG tech adds extra frames up to 120fps in some scenes. Thats what these techs are designed for. In short - it's for AAA games from AAA publishers to help achieve 120fps in native 4k cause even modern GPU still struggle in 4k. This magic tech is NOT for using in CPU bound games with lots of stutters and low baseline fps. This magic tech wont do CIG devs work for them.

Thank you for test as always! DLSS and AMD Frame gen are oposite tech but it`s always have a cost of time and lost performance so if you play single player or don`t care about die, you can use it, if you need to react it`s meen you need perfect short line of internet to server with ping lower then 40 and the lag of all system by lowest it coud be (need top tir pro PC staff to have like 10-20ms system lag + work of your reaction time by 400+- ms to get target aim in head and press fire.

"flawed in it's current state" technical preview with flaws? 😲 Seriously though. It's great to see an alternative frame gen technology. Just remember how long freesync was considered a second rate alternative to Gsync for people without money. These things take time to mature with Radion's budget.

Thank you for this video. I love the way you test it. Keep up with the good work!

FMF makes the jittering/stuttering so much more noticeable

This is the main issue with AFMF - although it can generally double your framerate, it also doubles your input latency, so whilst it looks better it also actually feels worse.

It's always good to see performance workarounds for the CPU bottleneck. I will say, the Arena Commander lag / feeling is pretty moot due to the horrible server performance that they've got going on right now.

I can notice the diff when you first show it without any slow down and I was watching at 2x speed lol but those smear frames are distracting in some sense.

Sweeet! Couldnt wait for this vid. Thanks so much for your effort!

Reviewing Fluid Motion so early before other GPU reviewers is impressive.

thanks a lot for the very quick and nice testing.

That was very interesting. Curious if AMD can tweak this driver to reduce the mud feeling. That's something I was thinking early on in your video, that what you see isn't exactly what your character is doing at that split second in time.

Use Vsync with AFMF. Also as you've stated with your issues, use RTTS to lock frames at certain rate, and even delay it by 1ms (not sure if needed while using Vsync tho') to smooth the experience and remove stutters.

20ms sounds like a lot, but nobody is 20ms fast. Humans are at best ten times as slow, yes you can perceive latency upwards of 20-30ms but it would never influence you as much as you would like to believe.

You say "that none of us play high refresh rate SC", so do you advise against setting the monitor to 144hz refresh rate?

Would you say this is equal, superior or worst than lossless scaling?

Curious if you could compare fullscreen vs borderless lag? Maayybe Win 10 vs Win 11 since 11 should have improved this? I love me some borderless to tab into Discord, but it adds latency and is noticeable. 4090 @ ~5k, Win 10. Curious if that's a way to get some of the penalty back.

It's pretty established that for FMF or frame generation to feel right you need a minimum of 60fps PRE frame gen to get playable latency. It's not a silver bullet for weak rigs that can't maintain 60 fps stock. Star citizen engine (still waiting for Vulkan API implementation) is still a work in progress too so trying to determine if FMF/frame gen will be useful is indeterminate yet IMHO. I think a lot of these early game stutters will be solved at release IMHO via pre shader caching or other techniques once we get optimizations completed. But we are not going to get those optimizations completed until Vulkan API is.

Thanks for the video, very interesting! Would this work with titles like total war? which are notoriously cpu bound, might be finally the saviour for it. Cheers and thanks :)

i've been getting a fairly decent 40-60fps at 2650x1080 on a 6600 since the 2nd 3.20 patch, which is alright with freesync. also considering i'm using lag reduction instead of FSR. am on 12th gen intel platform tho...

There is a way for this stuttering. Turn V-Sync on

What did we do to deserve such a gem of a content creator?

How do you get AFMF to become active? Mine just says its inactive when I toggle it on.

Sooo how do you enable it in-game? The driver requires it to be enabled in the given game you're trying to run it on. To my knowledge, this tech is not currently supported by the game. Or am I missing something?

Haha Star Citizen is a competitive Equipment game as apposed to PVP. Lol. Well that was disappointing.

Thanks for this info, now how does one turn on FMF? I've been searching my Adrenaline software for ages. it's up to date.

i suppose when play native at 60fps wont be that bad adding it

Maybe it is not magic, but it smells like one. I just wish I could enable it on my Ryzen 3600 + Radeon 6650XT. 😅 I could give you a proper feedback with that.

FSR3 with FG needs to be implemented into the game and not used via driver level to work along side anti-lag+

Seems to help the studders

Newegg has a Yeston 7900xtx for $950 I’m now curious

So you turn it on for higher FPS which is meant for smoother gameplay and lower input lag, but you get stutters with high input latency and not as good visuals.. I don't see the upside.. Is it just me?

You says it’s a driver level thing for 7000 series, do you think they will bring it to 6000 series? Would it even be possible?

I think the best thing to transform Star Citizen is CIG doing their jobs properly.

I think it works best if you're already past 60 fps. Basically, frame gen won't get you 60 fps even on nvidia, or maybe it will, but it will suck. But since AMD using a driver level implementation, you wont actually get you "closer" to the game. Information won't get to you much faster since the driver level frame gen has to figure out the next frame without knowing barely anything about the rendering pipeline.

faaaack.... i got a 6700xt.... It maybe bad but just like SC it can and probably get better later.

AMD has clearly stated the following but the TLDR? You will definately want over 60 fps before flipping it on so it has enough sample frames or you get some occasional artifacts. I can tell you I tried it in CONTROL and for a 7900XT it was perfect as I get about 80 fps at 1440P MAxed out with RT enabled and it makes it feel like 150 fps. The best result is use a framerate limiter to limit the base (pre AFMF fps) to half your monitors refresh. So I have 165hz. I limit to 75 and AFMF makes it 150 consistant for me. But it is a BETA and it is not perfect. Biggest issue for me is it is not yet Freesync compatible and not sure it will be. From the site... AFMF can introduce additional latency in games and is recommended to be combined with AMD Radeon™ Anti-Lag/Anti-Lag+ for the optimal experience. As AFMF may introduce additional latency in games, AFMF may not offer the optimal experience in fast-paced competitive titles. The AFMF technical preview currently requires the game to be played in fullscreen mode with HDR disabled and VSYNC disabled. For the optimal experience, AFMF is recommended to be used on AMD FreeSync™ displays. Users are recommended to disable HDR in Windows Display Settings, or disable HDR in the game (as well as Auto-HDR). AFMF features an activity monitor similar to AMD Radeon Super Resolution to confirm the frame generation status using AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition™’s in-game overlay (use the default hotkey of Alt-R for the fullscreen overlay, or Alt-Z for the sidebar overlay) AFMF is recommended to be enabled for games running at a minimum fps of 55 FPS for 1080p displays, and 70 FPS for 1440p or above displays. AFMF adds frame generation technology to boost FPS outside of the game’s engine. To see the resulting FPS, use the AMD Software Performance Metrics Overlay. Support for third-party performance monitoring tools is not available at this moment.

I think those technologies aren’t good at low fps despite that they are marketed as a cure to low fps. They are best used as a boost to go from 90-100 fps to the max of the screen, usually between 144 and 165 for most mid-high end setups.

Makes perfect sense because your input lag is tied to actual frame rates.

Did a bit of testing with FMF on SC myself. (7800x3d 7900xtx rig). It's definitely a NO GO, for me. The latency penalty is too high for one, especially in ship combat and the additional frames it gives you don't feel like actual frames. It's a lot like console games which add a ton of motion blur to try and make the 30-60 frames they run at "appear" smoother. I'll keep my eye on their improvements to the tech and keep testing accordingly but as of right now, it definitely ain't it. Game looks and runs better for me, overall, with FMF off and native res.

love you TPFT, but im never going back to team red until they take their vr and game drivers seriously

Any API? DX11, 12 and Vulkan?

I have 20GB 7900XT so I am looking forward to trying it. I don't expect it to be great early on, but as time goes by it will do what they want.

AMD cpus fare much better with Star citizen, for whatever reason. One of a a very few scenarios where having a specific brand of CPU actually makes a difference, despite what the fanbois say.

Hopefully CIG can finally implement those techs of upscaling and frame generation has VULCAN has API for all of that a long time ago! The problem is always something else if they implement then they need menus to be updated to allow toggling and then we enter another realm of lacking in CIG

No, you dont need a 7000 series, you need FSR 3 mod

Frame gen should only be used for single player games, online is competitive and your performance will suffer.

Dont really care about frames at the moment, i just want the bloody game to stop crashing

Garbage in Garbage out. Used to say that when working on Microwave Radio.

Yeah yeah.. artificial frames bad. yada yada.. Can we just appreciate that AMD makes this even possible that you can double your frames for free?

The secret to good frames and performance is join a very low population server.. Star Citizens server tick rate is one of the worse out there..

I dont care about fake fps as u said it look like working smooth but still works bad

Turn off your ecore is probably the best performance gain anyone can get right now

Shame but you cant have your cake and eat it . the new frames have do something

Shooting another players pip feels bad

You bought an RX 7000 just for that

Look at the level of detail being rendered. That's often the first thing to go when frames are being dropped because a lot of detail is rendered across frames (i.e. some pixels in one frame and some in the next) which is why stills can be really disappointing when rendering is done this way. This is not new. It's been done and rejected before. The fact that they're trying to reintroduce an old hack to a new crowd suggests to me that they're either looking for a free money release cycle (i.e. no substantial tech development for the cycle in question) or they're hitting a glass ceiling. Maybe they should stop simply *talking* about quantum computing and start mass producing quantum cores for video cards.

This 100% does not work in SC. New adrenaline dropped and I installed and I saw 0 fps gain when I tried this today in SC. Other games yeah it work not 100% more but it works. SC jack shit nothing.

funnily enough i requested they add dlss and fsr frame generation to the game on the forum and i got people commenting negative things even though it is quick easy to implement and 1 click will double your fps 1 of the people that commented saying he gets 55 fps on 4k low so not sure why he is even commenting on this as it would benefit him in a major way even though he has a playable fps

Thanks for stopping me from feending for an unnecessary AMD GPU

i think it's just a badly optimized game

AMD is very behind Nvidia on all frame generation and upscalers. AMD simply has terrible artifacts. Look at the demand for dlss in starfield. Off the charts. The reason: Nvidia implementation is cleaner

Adds lots of inputlag its only good for starfield