Link from the video: 1. Gamepad test page on Gamepadla: gamepadla.com/flydigi-vader-4-pro.html 2. Stck Analyzer: gamepadla.com/#download 3. Joystick Tester: gamepadla.com/#download 4. Stick Asymmetry clip (STL): www.thingiverse.com/thing:6639774/files 5. Dissassembly tool: afil.link/tools 6. An article about the sticks latency: www.reddit.com/r/Controller/comments/1dyxd7c/some_hall_effect_joysticks_have_motion_smoothing/ 7. Article about the cyclicality test: www.reddit.com/r/Controller/comments/1dedai8/why_the_circularity_test_is_much_less_important/ 8. John Punch's support page: ko-fi.com/gamepadla
Thank you very much to the blogger for the detailed review of our controller, and to everyone for your love of our product! These test results are very important to us and have provided significant help in refining our products. We have now fixed the issue of larger outer dead zones problem and further optimized joystick latency. We welcome everyone to update to our firmware version 6.9.3.1 to try it out and provide us with any feedback. Thanks again to all Flydigi Fans!❤
you guys could place the 2 extra buttons by the bumpers ..we buy pro controllers to avoid using face buttons as much as possible ..mechanical switches in the bumpers(main point of failure on elite controllers) Also if you made the back buttons like the upcoming (razor v3 pad) that would be amazing.. back buttons placement is one of the reason some people wont even give your controllers a chance if not like the razor you can put them closer like the turtle beach stealth ultra which u can simply use 1 finger and switch between buttons to press way quicker and u can press both at the same time with practice if needed please come to xbox or PS lol
@@kenzilbaptiste2519 I totally agree with you. I would suggest to get under 10ms for joystick input too. If you own a Vader 4 Pro search for its paddles from Gary_BBGames, they're 3D printables and very easy to install ;)
This channel is worth a lot more than 865 subs. Superb analysis. Btw, you should make "Input Latences" a feature; it's definately not a typo... interestingly ;)
@Dead-0-Zone Hi! thanks a lot for sharing all the information, I made a custom kit for testing Edge and DS on PS5 which is incomplete, I was always wondering why despite having a 1000Hz polling rate the in-game delay and input lag is higher, some people said "Yeah Bro it's because PS5, PC is Faster" And how did they always test on PC? just the polling rate. I personally wasn't into PC testing as much as console and that was the reason I made the same mistake Anna mentioned in this video considering polling rate for Input lag. While if I duplicate the method I use for PS5 on PC, I'd probably get a higher input lag and the a closer result to reality. This video opened a lot of questions and my mind is now searching for answers, that's why I was looking for other creators to see what I can learn from them to improve my methods and make reliable tests. To start with, I'ma test different buttons and joystick inputs of Edge on PS5 once again to see if there's a difference for input lag, but after watching this video, I now have to do dozens of new tests and keep watching videos to understand what's actually going on! Thanks again for sharing, I was testing Vader 4 this week and even though the polling rate and bits were high, I felt like this controller doesn't feel as smooth when it comes to joystick, with this video I realized the physical outer deadzone + how the hall effect works, so I'm gonna delay my review one more week 😅
@Dead-0-Zone I remember that comment, when I started doing these tests I was so confused because each time I would realize something new, to this point and today, I can confirm that the game settings I tested and provided for reduced input lag (differential such as Upscale on Vs off) are not wrong, but the actual values? I can't tell for sure, because a lot of things are here now, but I will surely keep improving and learning from others to correct the past mistakes in future. Thanks too! have a nice day ahead.
Dude I honestly can’t stand him anymore. He just seems scummy, stuck up, and not at all humble. It’s more than obvious he’s a puppet for any one who will shell out enough money, bends the knee and says what they tell him. I know my mom said if I have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all., but seriously he’s doing us all a disservice… if I didn’t say something it would be worse.
Simply the best review out there. I'm sick of channels confusing polling rate with actual input lag... Also i would love a top 10 controller stick latency video. Ive seen around the web that the bigbig won rainbow 2 se (specifically the se version) has some of the most accruate sticks available. Im curious if you find anything different about these sticks compared to others
That outer dead zone issue is a deal-breaker for me. 22% loss is huge for competitive FPS games. Flydigi needs to fix this ASAP with a firmware update.
Subscribed. I'd love to get your review on the Gulikit kk3 max/pro. I think it's valuable to watch 2 or 3 video reviews on a controller. Your reviews will always be a priority if I'm considering a controller.
i am using 8bitdo hall effect contrroller after frustrating experience with Xbox Elite controller. Absolutely loving it. The Elite controller just absolutely ruined my experience after RB button fail and horrible left analog stick drift. I fixed the RB button but couldn't fix the drift issue. I tried few things but i think the internal plastic stick mechanism needs replacement. Buying the 8bitdo was the best decision i made, although i miss the ergonomics of the elite controller. I wanted two solid pc controllers now i have one of them (8bitdo) however , i really want flydigi vader pro 4 as the second wireless option. I might go for it, however the input latency on the dongle seems slightly higher compared to 8bitdo's ~5 ms plus the outer deadzone concerns.
I've been considering starting my own in depth controller review channel to do what you've done here because I've yet to see anyone go beyond a simple "yeh, it feels ok" for their controller reviews. Thanks for finally doing what I likely don't have the money and dedication to do.
I got the Vader 4 Pro recently, and it's been a great experience so far, much better than any PS controller I've ever used. No, I'm not a pro gamer, as I've got a real job, so I don't care too much about the finer details, but it's still nice to know the nuances into what makes a good controller. I think for the price, it's a no brainer for most casual gamers, and the only ppl I can see complaining about it are DS Edge and Scuf fanboys who absolutely swear upon those controllers.
Bro I agree I bought a scuff fps for ps5 it's great but had issues and for 250 dollars it shouldn't have any issues. This controller feels way better and is way cheapier
I’ve had no issues with my Scuf reflex fps and I bought this for a backup and love it. Haven’t touched the scuf since and won’t ever buy another one. You can get 4 of these for the price of a Scuf
@killshot3331 Scuf controllers don't seem to have many QC issues, as they do take care when it comes to modding the controller and ensuring that it's been properly tested before it leaves their factory. But unless you're a Warzone pro, who hasn't gotten used to hall effect joysticks, it's just a complete waste of money imo.
@@StardustLegacyFighter I’ve had an issue with every single scuf I’ve had except for this last one. Sending it in to get repaired is the same price as a brand new vader which does everything and more and with better sticks. Flydigi is getting my money from now on
Thank you for making this! Great content. I am not surprised the joysticks are slow. There is a lot of interference between axis‘s and sometimes the triggers takes a lot of post processing to get usable output out of it.
Fantastic review. What I really love about your reviews is that you are not just knocking on wood (or plastic) and then decide if it's good or bad. You open them up and look into the way the controller is build. the joystick regulator...a plastic screw is...not very trustworthy. But it probably doesn't matter as before that gear gets worn off the battery will be dead. The software was also improved. The Vader3Pro had problems with loading profiles that had keyboard keys on keys. Often when starting the PC or changing a profile caused the buttons with special inputs being blank (when C ,Z, M1...4 are blank some games recognize them as a special key) Then the profile had to be loaded from within the Space Station and everything was alright. But that can be annoying. With the Vader4Pro I didn't had those issues. Keyboard commands were loaded when changing profile and are still active when starting the computer. From what I understand they changed the way the profiles are saved. The only disadvantage right now is that the Vader4Pro isn't compatible with reWASD. The Flydigi Space Station is a fantastic software for a game controller. Not even the top products on the market have such a good software to adjust the button layout of a controller. ...but reWASD is for most cases even better. ...on the other side reWASD for Vader3Pro is only working in Android mode...that sucks as how you are saying, you cripple your controller. So I would recommend to wait until reWASD is supporting the controller before buying the Vader 4 Pro.
This video is getting the very rare "saved" from me. I'll be using this again when the new controller comes in. Excellent work. Excellent. And also, I appreciate this being in english, it appears it isnt your native language, so as part of the mono-linguistic community, thanks.
salut je ne comprends pas bien l ' impact de la zone morte extérieure sur le jeu , pourrais tu refaire une vidéo ? de plus hier une mise a jour de la manette disait régler le problème Hi I don't quite understand the impact of the outer dead zone on the game, could you make a video again? Moreover yesterday an update of the controller said to solve the problem
Wow, your review is very good. The effort, the data, and the analogy you put is easy to understand. I hope your channel is go big. You got another subscriber.
Great review Anna. It's the best out there for this controller when it comes to factual data. Much better than your V3 Pro review which was kinda poor. Johns software has also become extremely useful and now plays a large part in which controllers i buy. My V4 Pro will be arriving soon so i hope they fix the problems mentioned here, especially that huge outer deadzone. That one will be obvious in gameplay.
Thanks for the in depth review. Aiming with the Vader 3 Pro felt a little off for me (like the sensitivity curve was weird), and was wondering if the tension adjustment of the 4 would help. And I see you no longer need to switch to Chinese in the Flydigi app to update the controller (another thing they apparently didn’t back port to the V3P).
Amazing in-depth review. Unfortunate to hear about the symmetry problem, which hopefully can be fixed with firmware. Will you be reviewing Razer's V3 anytime soon? Looking forward to more of your content!
Hi i am really looking for a new gamepad and the most important thing for me that it doesnt drift in like 4-5 months because i play a lot with left stick.If you can recommend me something i would really appreciate that
Respect for the detailed measurements. I would like to see 8bitdo ultimate 2.4G next, it does have a polling rate of 1000hz (cable) and out of all controllers i tested, it’s analog sticks feel the snappiest. 8bitdo upgraded this model with hall effect sticks. I assume that they left everything else more or less the same, so it would be pretty interesting to compare hall latency to potentiometer in a „controlled environment“
In my testing, Joystick Center Sensitivity seems to affect the output response curve of the sticks, near center. For example, "Slow" seems to half the output response between 0% to about 25% of both stick's tilt and then gradually ramp back up to a linear response beyond that.
So how come they addressed input latency with a very fast firmware update, but the outer dead zone issue gets left for months? I fear I may have wasted my money.
im having a issue with this controller, in apex legends is not auto spring, i was using the testing in the flydigi app, and the joysticks are not making to the full edge of the circle, i try calibrate the joysticks but still not making it, any solution?
Great video! I'm thinking of upgrading from my old Xbox controller. How does the Vader 4 Pro compare to the Xbox Series controller for someone who mostly plays racing games?
Danke für die ausführliche Überprüfung und Test. Mich würde tatsächlich sehr interessieren welcher der aktuellen und nicht aktuellen Controller der präzisere ist!? Also welcher Controller ist für Wettkämpfe der beste?
About the Thumbsticks: The "AZERON External Restrictor Ring": 2,- € // + hefty costly shipping fee// is made of full metal and fits perfect on these 2 analog sticks (easy to demontage -just push it out-) I use it for heavy fast WASD-movement style (with the reWASD software). But you can also use it for measurements or reduce the movement zone of the outer deadzone -> (timestamp of your video 20:45) Best test video as always!
@@kriswunderlichThe Nacon Revolution 5 Pro comes with many of these types of rings for free, although I'm not sure if they'll fit other controllers, but the concept seems to be the same.
Damn what a review! The deadzone problem is kinda worrying, did they get rid of it as of today? The input lag is also unnapealing. Would you guys go for this one or the "Gamesir G7 HE"? I'm planning on playing EA FC 25 and maybe some Co-ops with friends and family on PC, but I also don't know if the Gamesir has a large deadzone or high input lag. I'm trying to find out.
with the gyro thing... if you map right stick to gyro, does it work like botw, where you can aim with right joystick and at the same time, also aim with gyro?
Wow, what an in-depth review! I never knew there was so much to consider with gamepads. The joystick latency testing is fascinating. I wonder how other popular controllers would compare using that new GPDL tester method?
What is the best controller for FPS shooters like Apex Legends etc. Looks like dual sense edge potentially? joystick latency is important for shooters. That said, the stick resolution on the edge is weak. Would love an overview of which controller would offer the best experience for the genre
128 is a good resolution. Edge is great, especially if you play via Bluetooth. But there are more interesting gamepads via cable, but it's too early to advise anything, since not all stick latencies have been studied yet.
Fantastic. Now going back to see other controller reviews you may have done. Love to see Game Sir G7 HE review since I only see reviews of the well-known G7 SE model.
The only way I've been able to feel joystick center sensitivity is through a game like Apex Legends. On Fast, the camera movement has a higher starting speed from center but it's very sensitive when trying to microadjust while aiming down sight (zoom in). Oppositely on Slow, the camera is slower to move from center but it's much easier to microadjust while aiming down sight. It's a balance of initial camera movement speed vs. microadjustments when aiming. This is further exaggerated or offset by the tension of the sticks. Fast sensitivity + low tension = very sensitive joystick, Slow sensitivity + high tension = extremely slow joystick. I've settled for Middle sensitivity and medium tension for my own needs. This customizability seems great on paper but will cause some users to think their controllers "do not feel right" unless they calibrate it accordingly.
I know that you recommended "any" Joystick Accuracy/bit level for the joysticks, but is there a reason you settled on 10 bit instead of 12 bit? Is there potential inaccuracies/tremor/etc. that are introduced with the levels above 10 bit? Thank you (and John) SO MUCH for this video btw, extremely helpful and detailed!!
10 bits were chosen for several reasons. 1. The bit rate does not affect the input delay, so it does not matter which one is chosen. 2. 500 positions of the stick from the center to the edge is more than enough for precise control. 3. The movements of 10 bits can be traced very clearly in the Joystick Tester program, where they clearly correspond to the movements of the stick. At 12 bits, this dependence is no longer visible because such a resolution is higher than the stick's movement capabilities and is excessive.
I have gotten one! And i promise you, its soooooo good! Best controller outthere im sure of it. Compared it with my dualsense edge wich is triple the price and it dosnt even get close. If you think of buying it and play on pc, DO IT!
@@deamooz9810 I have nothing bad to say really. Not trying to glaze but its that good to me and the feel in mty hands. Only thing i would change is the placement on the backpaddles and if i could have the stick placement at the same spot on the controller. But thats just preference and im really pushing it to find something i dont like :)
WOOOOW, this is the first time I’ve seen such an informative review. I'm choosing my first gamepad for a shooter (apex legends). Please, I beg you to recommend the best gamepad under about 100 dollars. I still have little understanding of gamepad parameters (dead zones, etc.), but I believe that this is the most important thing in shooters. please help) p.s. hello from Uzbekistan, subscribed to the channel
I'm looking for a good controller with longer triggers than the standard Xbox Series for racing games and with trigger vibration. Do all these newer controllers have triggers with the same path? I wanted a trigger that goes further like the Xbox 360 controllers. If you have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it! Great video, I'm subscribing to the channel
The thumbnail reminds me of another channel who made reviews of controllers, only in other language but the same top tier quality, sadly he had to leave bc of war in his country
When I'm moving my character down with the left analog stick and then try to press L3 it is really difficult. But when I hold the analog up it is easy to press L3.
Impressive review! also your gamepadla site is extremely useful! thank you Yeah I'm pretty much sold on this one, I just wish someone could test the gyro a little bit more indepth (need 3axis and map to mouse, with good precision). Also hope Flydigi will fix or reduce those outer deadzone and stick lag at least a little bit. Also lol @John
It's so cool that you developed a method to measure the joystick latency independently from the button latency. Do you plan to revisit some of the controllers to also measure the joystick latency (like the Apex 4, Dualsense, Dualsense Edge)?
Why are u saying thumb stick tension ring is just a gimmick and has no practical advantages? In my opinion, it has different level of tension for different people fingers. We people can adjust for different strength. All people doesn't have same strength in fingers.
Best review on the internet! I feel like this controller fell short on 2 of the most important things for fps. Circularity is not great and that stick input lag is terrible for tracking. If youre playing at 144Hz, thats 4 frames before your stick imputs register.
I have the Assassin's Creed Apex 4 and use it on my series x via an adapter. If you go into the space station app and spend some time tweeking the stick curve, you will see a vast improvement. I play a lot of fo4, and anybody who plays that game knows the enemy npc's move around a lot and are difficult to track. After spending some time tweaking and testing different stick curve setups, I now can quickly and smoothly track enemies in fo4 and pull off amazing head shots while also using a mod that introduces bullet drop in the game, which would make it even more of a challenge for tracking head shots. That stick curve adjustment in the flydigi Space Station app is a game changer, imho.
Oh, forgot to add. Like @estanbogue said about in-game latency, in fo4's case, I needed to go into fo4 settings and also adjust the aim response speed as well.
Incredible, amazing job done, thank you so much for such a detailed review! Tell me, please, although the model is not new, is there a review planned for Apex 4?
I have both. The apex has Hall effect triggers that aren’t as good IMO if you play mainly fps shooters. The grip on the back is one benefit but they make a grip tape kit for the Vader as well. In short they’re pretty much the same but and this one is cheaper
@@killshot3331thanks for the comparison) I have apex 4 and vader 3 pro, as far as I understand, the mechanism with a second trigger mode, similar to clicks, has not changed in the 4th version, I agree, for shooters it is much more pleasant, although on the apex you can set the trigger mode to the minimum move, in general similar to this Vader feature. I was thinking about purchasing the 4th Vador (at the apex, by the way, there were also problems with dead zones, but the adjustment solved them), I still doubt how much I need it)
@@isu6225 Yeah I used the apex for a few months but could never get used to the triggers as I’d sometimes pull through the stops. Also I had them set very low so they were similar to clicky triggers and they would tweak out and input by themselves so I always had to keep messing with them and have it a lot higher than I wanted. The only pro to the Apex IMO is the rear grip. Luckily I bought the grip kit for the buttons and the controller grip was the same so I put that on my apex along with the second set of button grips it came with. I like it a lot better
@@killshot3331I can vouch for the Vader 4 Pro grip tapes, as they are awesome. I just got the delivery today, and despite looking a bit daunting, the installation was a breeze. The grips feel very nice, and the texture increases the friction, which means it's far less likely for my super sweaty hands to drop my controller. It's designed in Japan, so it's no surprise that it's well made.
@@isu6225If you already have the Apex 4 and the Vader 3 Pro, then I see no need to also buy the Vader 4 Pro. Unless you want to start a collection, or have many ppl using your controllers.
