Flying 6S Low KV Freestyle For The First Time 

Interesting to go back to and see this video when you were still figuring videography out a little bit, you've come a long way Bardwell, appreciate you every step of the way

Glad to see you trying out 6s joshua! I've been flying 5s and 6s for years, but now is definitely one of the best times to try it out with a lot more of our quads electronics being made to handle 6s. It used to be quite a bit more difficult! Great video

Wow that looks so fun!!! Great flying!!!

Awesome flying, JB. 😊

Been interested in hearing about the hype. 👍 Thanks buddy! 👌

Lol ,Josh you really do have the greatest job ever. Testing parts and flying.....all the time!

Jb get video. Both motors did good and you was ripping and i really like your place you have a great step up. Alot of great info thanks buddy

Yes my opinion..... I fly 2 months 6s 1600kv at 6s! Power 3 min Long! I flew 850mah for 3 min full power! I love it❤️ Greetings from Germany Marc Consistent is the 🔑

Love the sound of the air crackling here 8:17

Glad to hear Rooster is your favorite frame now =) Love it!

Just switched to a 6s HD build today! Can’t wait to fly it tomorrow.

Can't wait to fly your house in Liftoff... Hope it'll be there soon. ,)

Great vid as alway josh thanks for the info man

X-Lite, nice. I jumped over to one and it makes flying so much more enjoyable.

My 5" with 2507 1850kv running dalprop 5046's gets just over 7 minutes on a 6s 1300 lumineer graphene pack. The thrust generated with 6s on big motors is like nothing else I've ever flown. 6s for life!

thanks for all you do

I just started learning on velocidrone simulator! I hope I can fly like this someday! Starting out on a tbs oblivion rtf set!

How about different pitch props for longer flight time ?

When I used to race off-road the biggest advantage that 6s has is its easier on the electronics. The esc and motor run cooler on 6s but lacked some top end speed because of the low kv motor. Essentially it’s just two different ways of getting to almost the same results in my opinion. 👍🏽🤙🏽😃

I get some strange vibration on my Rooster as well - on 4S - fixed the arm movement but jello is still there.

Joshua I have been thinking about this with regard to micros. I think the answer is simple. Volts are like the oomph in your quad. If you run the same motors with more overall oomph its minimal performance will be better than that of the same motor on a lower voltage. For micros we have this issue between 2-3-4s. This is most prevelant in 11xx motors, particularly in 1106 where there is a huge difference in performance. 3 & 4s will give consistently longer flights and even power response. Micros also show this due to their light weight and propensity to float. My 2 cents.

It feels like i have more control using 6s on my quad. It feels like the electronics has less noise or just more voltage to work with. idk it just flies more smooth

Holding back....... Nahhhhh. You were flying like your mom told you to quit playing with your "Toys" and you were like "I'll show you toys"... Lol great video!

I just switched over to 6S. Not going back to 4S on 5" every again.

I am using the FPV AF 2307 1725kv on a pyrodrone 1250mAh 6s and get awesome flight times and performance. If I cruise it the whole pack I can squeak out about 6 to 7 min of long range flight. Hammering the sticks I get about 4 min. I also fly a lot of 5s lipos on 2450kv and that combo is great but can be rough on the lipo. 5s is a bit overlooked imho and people can have a lot of fun on one with mid to high kv.

I think your right on point

cant wait to see this quad fully tuned

hay there mr bardwell I have the hglrc f40 stack and having problems with it, in mid flight it is going into its start up tune and I lose control ?

Imho the flight time is more on a race course and in freestyle. 6s 1900kv would be the same as 2850kv 4s. So if you take that in to consideration it's a large difference in flight time because the overall amp draw,would be higher throughout on that high kv 4s. If I'm racing 1550mah 4s 2600kv vs 1050mah 6s at 1750kv my flight time is a solid 50 seconds longer if I'm flying at 90% my ability with a massive amount more consistency over the full flight, your stick feel is very similar from take off until 85% of the flight and you will only notice fall off on a race course in the last 15 or so seconds of the pack and that's only if pushing really hard. In freestyle where I'm flying 1050mah 6s 1600kv vs 2400kv 4s 1550mah my top end power still feels slightly higher on 6s even tho the KV matches out and I have more response throughout the entire throttle range and on 2306/2207 motors running HQ5x4.5x3 or HQ5x4.8x3 props in that case I will get a solid 35 to 40% longer flight times and simular throttle stick feel over the entire flight where you have to constantly add more throttle to pop over things once you about half way through the pack on 4s. It's not something you think about you just do it but when you go to 6s and still fly it like you did 4s you will over shoot until you adapt. 6s is just better, it's not something I would say go buy all new packs for (unless you race then 6s is almost a must) but once your 4s packs start getting old it's well worth the investment to just start buying 6s packs from them on and changing out to 6s electronics on your quads. If you build lighter you can run 6s 1300s and at that point, on let's say a 270 to 280 gram dry weight freestyle build the 1300 6s isn't gonna be overly heavy and on say 2206 1600kv and 5x4.3x3 props you will have no issues getting close to 6.5/7 minutes of nice smooth flowy freestyling and still getting a solid 5.5/6 minutes of pushing it, if that was 2400kv 4s on 1550s you would get roughly 3 to 3.5 mins of pushing it and 4.5 to 5 mins of nice smooth flowy freestyling. With 1300 6s you will get prettt much double the flight time or very very close to it. On 1050 6s you will get 40 to 50% more flight time. Or run much higher KV, feel much less sag over the pack and have totally CONSISTANT throttle over the flight, run a heavier higher pitch prop and still have a more responsive flying quad and have a large tuning window and harder to find prop wash because the extra voltage makes the motors more responsive/torquey and allowing them to change rpm a little quicker resulting in a overall cleaner flying quad. 6s is just better, the expense of the packs is a little tough BUT 6s packs last longer because the cells aren't getting beat as hard the amp load is shared over more cells and the amp load is noticablly lower across the board. I get about 30% more cycle life from 6s packs then 4s packs and that's just of the really good cycles.. honestly a 80 cycle of 4s pack is not gonna preform well but still will be flyable just gonna lack that punch it had but is still more then usable for messing around... a quality 6s pack will still preform pretty decently at 120 cycles so long as you haven't damaged the pack.. I have some pulse 1050 6s packs that I still use for freestyle that are coming up on 200 cycles and they still preform decently for the first 70% of the flight, I just land about a minute earlier then I would on a nice fresh pack and they preform extremely well at that point and I don't have to baby the throttle like I do on well used 4s packs, a 150 cycle 4s pack would sag you out the air 30 seconds after take off if you laid in to it. So the cost of 6s is less on the wallet once you have packs because you will be replacing them much less so long as you don't over fly them or they suffer crash damage. I could go on and on... 4s has it's place I guess but 6s is a once you go you aren't going back type deal. Kinda like when you only ever chased thin super fit girls and then you one day decided to play with a slim thick girl or a chick that has a little meat on her and never looked at a thin super fit chick again... it's like that... because that girl that has a little bounce to her but is thin just has a little bit to bring the curves out looks better in every way period and feels better in the hands and every other way as well... that is 6s and the skinny stick chicks you used to chase and you don't even look at them anymore is 4s.

Dear Joshua, Why 6S zag less: P = U x I Watts = voltage x amperage Power = voltage x current So at a higher voltage, with more cells, less current is needed to produce the same power. And zag is caused by current, not power or voltage. C rating is al about current. Get it? It's not so complicated. Another thing is that lower kv motors have a higher impedance, resistance. This resistance is serialized with the internal resistance of the Lipo. So when the resistance of the motors go up, you lose less energy on the internal resistance of your battery, and there is more going to the motors. Lipo will heat up less as another nice side effect. But my guess is the internal resistance of the Lipo is much higher than the motor, so raising voltage by serializing lipos will add more internal resistance than is removed by the lower KV motors, so... Something interesting to test? I estimate a Lipo having 5 ohm and motor 0.5 ohm? A negative thing of 6s is that there is more redundant weight in the material needed, the plastics, to separate the cells. So I would expect the flight time to go down a bit. But maybe lower C cells are used which are lighter in weight to compensate for this. Another thing that might interest you. 3 phase motors don't produce heat on power but amperage, since it is about generating a magnetic field, and moving electrons, which both have no mass. E = MC². So lowering amperage by increasing voltage will give room for more power output of the motors without producing more heat.

what is the weight of your quad with and without battery? I build a new reverb yesterday, I'm super stoked for the maiden today. 2550kV on 5S. I thought long about switching from 4S to 6S, but the battery availability is not reeaaaly there. Also a big advantage ist that I can fly the 2550kV motors on 4S as well and they still have decent power. Also, do you think well have more than 6S batteries in the future, or do you think its the sweetspot between voltage and dead weight from the cells. and connectors?

I waited awhile but yeah... 6S is legit. I finally built a 6S quad and I love it

I was going switch over my heavy chameleon to 6s. I was hoping it would change flight feel. I figured more power would help the quad feel more nimble. Does the quad feel faster on 6s?

Nice vid, may I request a comparison vid of 6s kiss setup vs a 6s betaflight setup. I always tend to fly my kids rig due to efficiency, does not compare to my buf helio spring similar setup.

Hey Joshua! Could you do me a favour and test Rotor Riot Hypetrain motors on 6S? The spec sheet says it won't burst into flames. The interesting thing I can think of is running them with the throttle capped to say, 80% to not draw too much amps to overload the packs/melt wires. With a BLHeli32 ESC and DSHOT1200, this should still be very much flyable.

I just got my 7” Reverb 6s acting right. Using the T-Motor Pro II’s @ 1600kv. Haven’t gotten any time to run some packs. Or get some 7” props on though . Can’t wait!

That batt is bad ass

I had this problem with an ESC and small Cap was broken off near the motor wire joints.

I'd love to see a stick cam or black box overlay on flights like this so us old blokes can see what you do for a particular move rather than have to try and work it out ourselves. Not looking for full on, crazy freestyle moves, just want to add a few roll pitch flip combo moves to the tool box.

I saying the jello is from the rooster frame. I've tried multiple setups on mine all new good quality parts and I cannot get it out. I dont know if you will remember but we tried to get it out on a brand new build during quad camp at your house and couldn't. I tried for months to work w Armattan to fix it and Wilson finally told me too bad tough luck. Have you switched to 6s?

I fly freestyle with Emax RSII 1700kv and 1300-1250 6s packs. I get about 2 minutes longer flight times compared to my 4s quad on LS2207 2400kv and 4s 1500 packs. Now my 6s quad is built lighter than my 4s quad but with a 1300 6s is about 40g AUW more than my 4s setup. Even so I get more speed and punch with it than my 4s quad. It's night and day for me. 6s all the way

How do you get the audio from your flights? I know my quads with the 03 air don’t record audio, but my wasp link is supposed to have a mic. I just don’t get audio when I watch the footage.

5S is the best of both worlds with higher kv overall and efficiency in my opinion with the right props, engines and weight. 2207 2450kv T5055 Hulkies. Want to try 2208 higher kv sometime.

Those BH R6 2207 have been my go to since they came out..I would even say they are they best on the market to date in the 2207 class.

hey! I still see some jello and vibrations. I've contacted you in slack with log and flight video. But you just give me couple of guesses what this can be. I'm flying FL1 firmware and there is 0.595 version where you can switch on ESC signal smoothing and 1.2.2 when they switch this feature off by default and move it completely. Exact same setup flying straight with ESC signal smoothing and shaky and with jello with new firmware without it. My gyros and motors are clean in log and even Preston can't help me. I have exact same kwads with only one difference, one is blhelis another blheli_32. I've changed the motors and the way how my stack is build. Same problem. Also this experiencing my friend and a lot of people poping out with same issue. And you know? This is not FL1 code it looks like new ESC firmware are messed up. Can you please find out what is the problem with your kwad and confirm that this was motors or stack or what ever?

I noticed the clearview on your goggles :) dvr comparison coming soon? they are going to ask my to pay for the rest of my preorder any day now.

0:01 WRONG RIGHT: WHAAAATTTSSSSS UPPPPP GUYS, YOU GONNA LEARN SOMETHING TODAY!!!!!!!!!!

It makes sense to me that a lower kv motor will have more torque and smoother response. Possibly better for freestyle depending on preference. … Also makes sense that higher kv motors will suffer from voltage sag because they might have something like a “powerband” where they are working harder to reach their point of peak power

Testing of the Catalyst machine works motors?

What are your thoughts on the FRSKY X-Lite Transmitter ?

No jello on your videos with the R6, quality motors. Good choice.

I want to see the new clearview module review video!

Was that the new clearveiw module i spotted on your goggles

He's here talking about 6s I'm here just starting horizon mode with Google's. About to try acro line of sight

Can notice immediate improvement in flight footage (less shaking and vibes) when you went to the BH motors. 🤔

I am considering fpv as a hobby. Should i go for a 4s or 6s? I am currentky living in the UK if that makes a diff.

When are you doing the x lite review? ive seen loads of reviews but i need a jb one lol

Which ESC and fc were you using?

How does that compare to a 5s on 2300kv?? Just wondering.

what module you use on your goggles?

What kind of parts are sensitive to running too high a voltage (6s vs 4s)? The esc’s? Or everything... motors, fc, Vtx etc.

Hey Josh, I wonder if you could expand a bit on your impressions of those EMax motors? I just put them on a 4S 6" rig and seem to have the same jello / shake that your quad was displaying even after soft mounting them and adding a low ESR cap to the build, is that something you feel could be tuned out with filters / pids or do I need to switch to something like the Brother Hobby motors you showed to get nice smooth HD footage? Thanks for your reply!

Its better without doubt,but whether its worth the extra money for 8 - 10% extra performance is up to you.

I'm surprised u didn't feel more in control. When I switched to 6s although power is marginal I feel an increase in handling because of the extra torque to spin up a motor for control. Maybe I'm crazy I don't know

what are those antennas on the goggles?

All the different sounds are amazing! Be cool to see you set a few helium balloons up around your awesome track. And nail em in one run. Your channel boosts brain cells.

How do you like your x-lite?

Howdy Bought a pre-assembled 5" rooster and will be converting it for 6s with those 2207 motors and lipo I've never tuned a quad before so could you point me in the right direction for the pid software? Much appreciation.

I thought the main advantages was that the 6s packs will last longer than 90 days unlike our 4S packs that just honestly drop performance after maybe 10 hard flights. My whole style has been dictated by though not great performance of a 4S battery it just makes me have to fly by holding back a lot knowing it would just ruin the battery if I wanted to really rip around but if I could do it on a 6S that might be worth them

I am going to blame the motors for your vibration issue on the EMAX's. I actually bought the exact same motors 3 weeks ago, and no mattter what filter settings I tried. I could not get rid of the vibration.

Finally the rsii

Each time you add a cell you increase the ratio of charged to total volts. Say you get .8 volts to drop out of each cell4.2 down to 3.4 4cells gives you 3.2 volts to spend never mind if the ah is the same a 6cell will give you 50% more volts to spend 4.8 volts. Also there is the increase voltage supply decrease amp draw rule. It takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm so in layman’s terms a 6s battery doesn’t have to “work as hard” because it’s “faster”.

Never give willy the satisfaction! no one can say it like willy!!!

Thanks, Joshua! Question what are you using on your FatSharks (Module and Antennas? Thanks!

Hey Joshua. I love your content on RU-vid. I would not know crap about fpv if it wasn't for you. I've been thinking about a 6s setup. But I really don't like the bulkyness of the battery. How do you think it would be to add two 3s batteries together . One on the top and one on the bottom of the quad? I'm thinking that there is going to be some sag or some other problems. But I also think it will be a lot more balanced CG. Do you maybe wanna test it?

Hey Joshua; random theory here: with a 6cell, Voltage goes up compared to a 4cell right; Meaning the Amp draw to deliver the same wattage( actual power output) goes down... Meaning it's easier to deliver the same wattage(response to stick input) till the bitter end? since less amps drawn does mean less stress on the battery.. As for flight time,, i'm guessing the 6 cell weighs a little more than a 4 cell? I'm curious as to what others think about this theory.

I actually strapped a 1300 6S under my Diatone GT-M200 with 2207-1750kv motors. That little extra weight gives me about 4 minutes of ridiculous flying, like punchouts to the moon, that kind of stuff.

Hey i build a 7" quad with mamba stackf405 and 2408 1950kv motors.. But the capacitor that wasin the box of the mamba stack burns down every time when using 6s lipo. Even a big 35v 1000uf one. Ive tested it with 3s lipo an get ober10 mins flight time.. But with 6s the motors getting really hot.. What to do?

What are those square antennas, JB? I liked their look a lot! Remembers me of those dies people put in cars! 😀 I want some!

your "muscle reflex" memory on your track seems to be getting better! Ain't never seen you jamming so fast around stuff.. did you speed up the video?

Electrical Engineer here: My guess is that the resistance is reduced. Series resistors add. Each cell has some ESR and when you put them in series, you get more voltage but also more ESR. lower Kv motors have more windings so more resistance also. However the resistance of the wiring, PCB traces, and MOSFET's in the ESC's is constant, so the overall resistance does not rise as much as the system voltage. i.e, the effects of the constant-resistance portions is minimized because higher voltage = lower current assuming constant power. That's the only thing I can imagine causing this behavior, because all-else equal it should be identical. Or the FOC algorythm on the ESCs simply works better and can maintain 90 degree field angle in the motors as the voltage sags more because it gets more back-EMF feedback from the motors and can more accurately track rotor positon? Not sure.

Can i ran 2400 KV or grater motors on 6s?

I love unicorne battery :D

The Brother Hobby's don't look like they had the same punch?

hi guys, I have built 7 " 6s with 1200KV tonight testing it, i do fly long steady flight only.

Brother hobby motors....hands down!

The current draw is lower because of the higher voltage, and that is what decreases the SAG.

Commenting on an old video here... Do think there's much of a difference between running a low-kv motor and just changing the throttle curve/limit? It seems like we could just keep using high-kv motors and set a throttle limit to help us pretend that they're low-kv. Then we have the anti-sag benefit as well as the benefit of giving the flight controller extra room to handle corrections (because the fight controller would be able to run the motors at ~35% more throttle than the pilot would be able to). I'm really torn because I want to build out something 6S but not sure which way to go =/

If you pull 300W from a 4s the load over the cells will be 20.27A, on 6s that would be 13.51A and the lower load is what causes less sagging. Sorry about my pervious post, I was stoned and messed up series and parallel loads :(

Would u recommend 35v caps or maybe 50v for this set up?

Hi there joshua. I ordered the 2207 1750kv hobbybrother r6. The specsheet says 4-5s but u recommend it on ur site as 6s. Now i am confused. Can i push them with 6s? Or will i get problems? Greetz tom

I was thinking of building a light racer with those 1900kv motors for 5 and 6s

What pids did you run? Having trouble getting mine set up right for 2207 1900kv Motors. Thanks

If you build a low kv 6s rig can you still fly 4s packs with it? Or does it suck??

Is that left and right hand polarized hoots on your fatshark module?

Ripping!!!

Now your just takin the🌈🦄 mr Joshua Bardwell 😂✌️

Clearview module? Do tell....

*Urgent question* : is 2000kV too high for a 6s freestyle setup?

JB, What product do you use to oil your motor bearings with?