FN 509 vs FNS-9: Is One Better?

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Опубликовано:

19 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 226

@trytobetheballpeople 3 года назад

I realize its been four years since this great video was posted. I just went looking for my first pistol this year, 2021. Went to a gun show in South Carolina, asked the salesperson what they had for 9 millimeter. He handed me a compact something or other. I told him it didn't feel right because the grip hit the middle of my palm. He said okay, try this one. Wow, it fit my hand perfect. I said how much? He said $ 619.00. I said what kind is it? He said FN. Its an FNS 9. Never heard of it. My 17 yr old said I've heard of FN on my video games. I said okay, SOLD. I guess I lucked out getting a quality firearm. Now I have a lot to learn which I'm looking forward to.

@whatfreedom7 Год назад

Good pistols and I agree they feel great. Liked the trigger too. They do have issues with the striker breaking so you may want to look into upgrading that part.

@screwballsquirrel4473 Год назад

Just bought one last week.

@liljosh951 Год назад

Just bought the FNS-9. I love it! Bought it slightly used for $449. Still looks to be basically new inside and out.

@texasrigged5875 3 месяца назад

619? Good gun horrible price unless it was brand new

@bwvideo0905 4 года назад

Thank you for an excellent review. As an almost 60 yr old lifelong shooter, collector and competitor, I much appreciate your attention to detail and fine close up camera work. I also agree with most of your opinions except for the grip texture. At least in competition I prefer an aggressive non-rubber grip texture, and these fit the bill. This is strictly personal preference of course and a manufacturer just tries to find a happy medium as you could never please everyone. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Thumbs up and subscribed.

@scotty362100 4 года назад

The FNS-9, and the 509 use the same fire control group (sear block assembly) according to the parts numbers. The 509 is actually just a progressive revision of the FNS-9 (gen-2), I agree the 509 is a cheapened version of the much better quality FNS-9. The firing pin and spring for the 509 are listed as new replacement part number for the FNS-9 also. I also just noticed the trigger assembly is discontinued for the FNS-9, and the 509 part number is the new replacement trigger assembly.

@7Steels 6 лет назад

I like the more technical videos on guns. Very nicely done.

@leadcounsel4869 6 лет назад

Great review, love the FNS, and have 3. Two have the narrower linkage, and the 2016 model has the 509 trigger design seen here. Someone else pointed out and I'll confirm, the older FNS uses the narrower trigger linkages shown. I think that some of the original FNS had trigger problems, causing slide lock closed. One of mine (~2012 manufacture date) had to be returned and fixed/replaced. It appears FNH redesigned the trigger and uses the 509 trigger now in both models, from what I can tell. As for why FNH has both lineups which are effectively direct competitors, it seems inefficient and I don't understand it either since they seem to be same price point and overall designs are basically the same. They should have made one radically different, like a paddle mag release for instance.

@warmachine_1396 6 лет назад

I had the same magazine release issues on my 509. I've owned both and the FNS9 is the better handgun in my opinion. The only thing I liked better on the 509 is the rear sight. I like a flat ledge for one handed slide manipulations. You never know when you may need the option. FNS9 wins though without a doubt!

@jconradh 6 лет назад

I put night sights on my FNS 9 and they came with the flat edge. :)

@boomee78 6 лет назад

jconradh you can get ight sights from fn if you order it that way

@oldskoolhoss7534 6 лет назад

My fns9 has served me very well. Im impressed with it and trust my life to it.

@jconradh 6 лет назад

I have 3 FNS pistols, 2 came with the night sights, you are correct! :)

@donniesmithjr.4952 6 лет назад

I have the FNS 9, FNS 9C, FNS 4" 40 and just recently bought a FNS 509C in FDE. I carry the FNS 9c daily the FNS 9 is by my bedside. I haven't shot the 509 c yet but it feels as good in the hand as the other FNS pistols I own. I sold my glockenspiel 17 and 19 after the 1st FNS9. The 40 is better than the Glock 23 I carried as a LE officer 23 years.

@christopherhall4426 Год назад

I've had the FNS9 for nearly 7 years and I love everything about it. I considered buying a 509 and looked at one at my LGS. After spending some time with it I couldn't justify spending the money on a pistol that was almost identical to what I already had. The FNS9 is a great pistol!!

@sjmiller6012 6 лет назад

Appreciate the detailed comparison review. Your straight forward review style is refreshing. I found it very interesting and helpful. Thanks.

@JustinOpinionChannel 6 лет назад

Thanks very much, I appreciate the nice words!

@izzy7062 6 лет назад

Great review. Was looking at both these guns for a while, and was being steered towards the 509 even though I preferred the FNS9. This review sealed my purchase, thanks.

@MartyBugg 6 лет назад

Bought the fns9 when it came out. Was bummed when the "upgraded" 509 hit even tho i loved the fns. Now i feel better, lol. It was in my carry rotation for a while but grip too long and base plates too fat to be practical so its moved to home defense role for wife now.

@steveschaefer1070 5 лет назад

Have always loved my FNS-9 but wondered about the 509. Thank you for showing the difference.

@ShawnSinghwhen_it_counts_p220 4 года назад

Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison. I've been looking at FN pistols for a while, but haven't made a move yet.

@babayagar9091 6 лет назад

My dad traded his CZP07 for an FNS-9 today and I have got to say the trigger is amazing compared to glock and S&W. I think it’s better then the CZP10C and P320 with the upgraded trigger. I’ve had experience with all these guns. All are good, but I think I’ll be pick up an FN after I get a Beretta M9a3!

@charleslowrey9309 5 лет назад

The CZ P10 C factory trigger was close to my FNS9C Apex trigger. The HBI trigger I installed in the P10C made it real sweet. It is now my favorite striker fired pistol.

@warmachine_1396 6 лет назад

Great review by the way! Been looking for a side by side comparison and you nailed it.

@tidypog3272 6 лет назад

For those who didn't watch the entire video: **the FNS 9mm accepts all magazines**

@mosesl.4608 3 года назад

Thanka bro

@anthonyjohnson9106 3 года назад

True time and life saver🙏🏾.

@jamesrowe6632 6 лет назад

Great comparison I hope we get to continue to watch these as it seems You Tube is waging a little war on Gun related channels.

@JustinOpinionChannel 6 лет назад

Thanks. Likewise, I hope I can continue to make and share them. Not much we can do about corporate activism, at least when it's aligned with the preferred ideology - but it sure is a helpless and frustrating feeling.

@roberthambly9926 5 лет назад

Maybe no one else noticed you shot much tighter groups with the 509

@mikeking9777 5 лет назад

Was thinkin bout tradin my fns9 for the 509. No need to now. Thanks for helpin me make my decision.

@ricks.1092 6 лет назад

When I spoke with FN and they said was I would have to change out the FNS base plate. and though the follower is different the FNS follower will still engage the slide stop mechanism. Essentially, FN changed the exterior cosmetics, and went with a different extractor (on the slide) and recoil spring system. Then claimed it's an entirely new pistol for the Army's new pistol program. Personally, I prefer the FNS, I ended up giving my 509 to my brother...since both pistols are relatively the same.

@mitchculpepper738 2 года назад

I was curious about the difference between these and having paid $399 for my FNS 9 four years ago, I knew it was a good deal but now I realize it was a great deal! This is an awesome pistol and my number two choice for EDC, my first choice is the Walther PDP but if it had an optics cut slide, it would be a toss up!

@ddw76y Год назад

A local indoor range has one for $399. I think I will make this my birthday present. .

@code.name.sasquatch 2 года назад

The table top part of this is super interesting to me...now I wanna see the internal comparison on more gen 1 vs gen 2 guns lol

@Mrki33 Год назад

The FN 509 has a thicker barrel with a protective crown compared to the FNS, and there was no savings there, but an improvement. You didn't mention that. There are also RU-vid videos of the FNS being unsafe and known to fire when the front of the gun was pressed against something. The Glock doesn't have full length rails like the FNS so I don't see it affecting reliability and durability. The thicker barrel on the 509 endures higher pressures than the FNS.

@jerhunt4561 6 лет назад

The 509 is the commercial version of the FN submission to the US Army MHS which picked the Sig 320.

@lucaswangerin9150 6 лет назад

I heard that too, evidently the FNS-9 didn't meet certain specification requirements for the Army's search for a new pistol, so they modified it a little bit to be competitive for the contract.

@jhonestyg2246 6 лет назад

Great video and detailed comparison. Thanks for mentioning the distance that you were shooting from. Always annoys me when you have no idea how far the targets are!

@Me2Lancer 5 лет назад

Thanks for your review. My FN 509 shipped with 3 magazines.

@AnthonyGarcia-so2ek 9 месяцев назад

Another cool feature about the FNS-9 is that it has a side lever on the shell extractor so it let's you know if the gun is loaded or not. Similiar to the HK VP9.

@CybermomusKing 6 лет назад

I actually know the answer before the video begins. One of those guns is awesome and runs all day every day. The other gun FN tried to reinvent the wheel and failed, about sums it up.

@wavydaveyrivera1720 6 лет назад

So which one runs all day and which one fails?

@frankiegunnz8066 5 лет назад

@@wavydaveyrivera1720 Really??? 🤔😏

@wavydaveyrivera1720 5 лет назад

CybermomusKing lmao

@wavydaveyrivera1720 5 лет назад

You didn’t clearly state which one

@wadeyates3273 5 лет назад

Nice review. By FN’S own statement on their website the 509 was actually derived and fashioned from the technology in the 509c. Either way. Awesome fire arms. I love all of my FNH firearms.

@mashalldillon5528 6 лет назад

Fns 9 all day long,

@AntBlanco Год назад

Nice review! My experiences and preferences ... I sold my FN509 and kept my FNS9 and FNS9L. Over time, the trigger broke in smoother on the FNS. The ergonomics are a better feel/fit for me. I found the FN509 recoil spring to be way, way too much. Its a shame FN did away with the FNS line inplace of the 509s. They modified/replaced a tool that didn't require it. With over 10 thousands of rounds, my FNS pistols continue to be excellent and reliable defensive / competitive tools.

@TheRobkwill 4 года назад

Thanks for the video. Nice job exploring the subtle differences. I've had an FNS9 for sometime. Thought about getting an 509 to replace it. I'll probably just get a 509 and have both. I do like the slide profile better on the 509 with the width tapered on top. But that's just aesthetic.

@jamesgreen9954 4 года назад

All the issues with the full size 509 have been corrected in the new FN 509 midsize. Better grip, changed the recess for the mag release as well as a better trigger with a slightly flatter wider blade and still 15+1 of 9mm. I shot the 509 full size and it was ok but had some things about it I didn’t care for like the mag release. After shooting the 509 midsize I went and picked one up for my new carry weapon leaving my Glock in the safe for the first time in 20+yrs. I think if you give the 509 midsize a try you’ll find out it’s a much better handgun than the full size 509.

@donsettie4739 2 года назад

The Fns 9 was recently dumped by a large, local PD. They cited safety and reliability concerns.

@jdw0909 2 года назад

Would you happen to know which local PD that was?

@josephn9881 6 лет назад

FNS 9 looks like cleaner machine work on the slide for sure

@ASMR-soothingsounds 6 лет назад

Thanks for the detailed video. Well done!

@reynaldohernandez7773 4 года назад

Thank you for making my decision

@crypticreality8484 5 месяцев назад

I agree. The FNS/FNX are just classier than the newer dealio

@Elvis68spec 6 лет назад

Excellent Video! I found all aspects of this Video to be very useful! Thank You

@morono4016 6 лет назад

Just looking over this video and found something very interesting. Owning an FNS-9c I wanted to know the differences and to the naked eye, it looks like the compact version takes characteristics from both guns. It has everything the full size does but uses the 509 recoil system and firing pin spring. Just thought that would be interesting to know.

@ronin2167 3 года назад

I wonder why if the FNS9 is a better pistol, FN offered the FN 509 as their submission to the DOD for their new firearm?

@richcastle Год назад

Not sure if this helps anyone but the disconnect spring from the fire control group on the 509 is a smaller gauge wire than the FNS. I bought a 509 disconnect spring for an FNS project and trigger would not reset sometimes after firing it.

@marcellanglais9454 4 года назад

You explained things very thoroughly was looking to maybe get me a polymer 9mm and you might have just convinced me to buy the FNS9 ...Thanks for a great video !

@gunnerview6578 6 лет назад

FNS ftw

@Paul_Colton_ 6 лет назад

The FN 509 was their entry into the XM17 MHS competition. All the FNS9 pistols I've seen for sale were less expensive than the 509s. Had an FNS40 and loved it but for some reason I traded it for an FNS9L...which shot about 4 inches low at 10 yards. So I sold that and bought a 509, very pleased with it so far, shoots to point of aim.

@MMARAVILLA64 6 лет назад

Another good informative vid. With the plethora of gun vid channels on YOuTube, you are one of three go-to resource for me before I make a buying decision. Many thanks for all your hard work and please keep ‘em coming.

@JustinOpinionChannel 6 лет назад

Very kind of you to say. I'll do my most-bestest to keep the content rolling out.

@vs9mm Год назад

19:00 that's the updated mag release. The FNS9 had complaints of magazine coming loose during firing for some people who's grip went over the mag button and caused the magazine to unseat during firing and cause malfunction.

@jamescarter4175 4 года назад

I have an FNS-9 and have been wondering what the difference is between it and an FN 509 ever since I became aware of the FN 509. That brought me to your video. Thanks. Very interesting.

@adriandejesus1429 6 лет назад

Wow excellent comparison, great, great, we need to see a Battle from Glock 19X, Sig Sauer 320 and Beretta M9A3. God Bless Justin.

@michaelfay794 4 года назад

Love my FNS 9mm. Great vidio. Cept I live in Massachusetts. 10 round mags for me. Still love it.

@declay44mag32 5 лет назад

Yes sir I watched your video on fn 509 and fns9. I have the Opportunity to buy a factory demo fns9 for 299.00 vs 509 new at f/n for 525.00. I’m able to do either but don’t really want to spend unnecessary money. This would be range gun and home protection. I’ve held both and really don’t see any Significant Difference. Really would Appreciate your opinion,no pun Intended. Enjoy your videos keep up the good work. Thanks!!!

@5jjt 3 года назад

I really dig the videos that show the insides of pistols. I've been looking for one of the Canik pistols.

@mclark2009 6 лет назад

Good video explaining some of the differences between the FNS and the 509. But you missed quite a bit of features on the 509. redesigned slide, longer extractor for better reliability, thicker barrel which is also crowned (that's huge) different sight cut out (SIG #8) greatly enhanced how the back straps are changed. FN is finally making a commercial pistol competitive with other manufacturers. Once APEX finally releases their trigger and some other options come out, it will begin to move it's way up the ladder in the market.

@tamront1656 6 лет назад

Once again. Informative and entertaining. I always like seeing a notification from Justin Opinion. Keep up the good work!

@JustinOpinionChannel 6 лет назад

Thanks!

@ChaotiX1 Год назад

Whats different? The 509 is an FNS-9 thats ambidextrous, shoots tighter groups, and is built to handle 20% overpressure.

@tidypog3272 6 лет назад

I went down to their pro shop and bought two FNS 9mm longslides for $600 total. They sold me mags for $10 each, too. Funny enough, my two guns demonstrate the same variation in strikers that yours do. One is open on the top and the other is closed. The fully contained striker is a little rougher -- I'll probably chamfer the bit where the spring slides for a better trigger pull. The other one, with the body of the striker open, exhibits the best trigger pull out of any handgun available to me, which includes a Ruger Blackhawk

@jarhead6153 5 лет назад

Good video, thanks for posting so now we can all see the differences...

@m.s.l.7746 6 лет назад

Sure wish I had jumped on the fns for $319 at academy a few years back...

@puffyclouds7420 6 лет назад

gunbroker has them for pretty cheap, just picked up a FNS40 for 320

@newt0n_ 5 лет назад

Wowie thats a deal. FNS-9 is currently at ~$420 for LE/Mil purchasers.

@mckeeb86 3 года назад

Damn! I wish! I also wish I didn't sell my second one. Bc now I'm lookin for another one for the other half

@tap42al 6 лет назад

If it’s not broke don’t fix it.

@brianwilson8550 5 лет назад

I have the fns 9 and i love it however i do like the looks of the 509 a little more im shocked they entered the 509 in the military trials considering the 509 itroduced to h20 and instantly fails im curious if the fns 9 will too since i cant find any videos testing the fns9 in water may have to do it myself. Great video. Thank you...

@wunder8962 5 лет назад

I own the FNS9. I think FN took a step backwards with the 509. I think they should have stuck with the FNS9 for the military trails submission. My only complaint with my FNS9 is the trigger guard.....I think it’s too damn big. When I mount a weapon light the on/off paddles are barely reachable compared to how close they are with my glocks. I just with FN would square off the front so a weapon light can mate up tighter and closer.

@quiettime6871 4 года назад

It is nice when you wear gloves though

@markrobinson5774 4 года назад

I like the 509 beefier a little bit more weight

@waterboy330 6 лет назад

I would like to know more details about why you believe the FNS to be better than the "updated" 509.

@johnpublic976 4 года назад

Great and Detailed Video, the Best of it's kind on RU-vid, IMO! Question for FN: Was it really necessary to make the FNS 9C and 509, otherwise compatible, parts so different between each other that not even the Magazines are interchangeable between the two pistol models? Thanks for bringing out this Fact, 'Justin Opinion'. It would have been a Big Plus for the FN and their Civilian Pistol Market if FN would have given their Civilian buyers this Cool, small but economy minded benefit. I believe that FN would have sold many thousands more of these two pistols vs the money that they would have made on the extra magazine sales between these two guns. FN Herstal - Small Arms Division,,, This is our own opinion (Market-Masters) regarding this simple 'Pistol Marketing Strategy'! Thanks Justin Opinion! for the Video and a Big Thumbs UP!

@mikehumphreys3240 5 лет назад

got my FNS-9 brand new for .... $362 this week !

@williamrandolph1566 5 лет назад

Where? Please.

@robertborne895 5 лет назад

A local gun shop has them on sale for $380 so I believe that one could find one for $362

@SpicyRok7482 4 года назад

I paid less than that. Of the six I own, some w/tritium and/or "stainless" slide, none more than $360. Most were $340, or less including 9C, 40C. The used 9L w/American flag slide was $350. A star of a pistol. All campaigns have been performed.

@hernandezcarlos 4 года назад

Got a 509 at gunprime for $367

@boomee78 6 лет назад

fns 9s are cheaper these days than the 509 also both have options for night sights

@BryGuy418 6 лет назад

Absolutely love the detail and time spent on the comparison between these two. I know the geometry is slightly different, but I wanted to see if the slide would mount one way or the other for the two pistols with how similar they actually are. I'm thinking they won't, but can you please settle that thought for me, if you get a chance? Thanks, and keep up the great work!

@andog6092 3 года назад

One nice thing about hk, their mags are almost all interchangeable. Holsters too, I don't know how but my hk45 holster holds everything but the uspc.

@jconradh 6 лет назад

Great video. Thank you for the closeup comparisons of both guns. I have 3 FNS guns and like them. :)

@PersianSoheil 6 лет назад

So FN 509 has a dual recoil spring, did you notice less recoil while shooting it compare to the FNS-9?

@omgn88 2 года назад

I have a FNS-9C and just checked the website. They discontinued the FNS series and are only doing the 509 now.

@Edward101z 6 лет назад

Hello Justin Opinion. How old is your FNS9, and when was it Manufactured? I ask this because at the 3:18 mark, you point to the trigger safety and compare it to the FN509. I just got my FNS9 on April, 5th 2018 (couldn't pass up outrageous deal of $349). I got it out and compared to yours. The one I have has a Spring and looks exactly like the FN509 on the left. It does not look at all like FNS9 you're showing in this video. The one you're showing doesn't have a Spring, and I'm wondering why it doesn't. I'm guessing FN Herstal decided to use the same triggers in both at some point. I did call FN to check the manufacturing date on my FNS9, and they said it was made on Jan.25, 2017. I LOVE MY FNS9! It's very accurate, and is build like a brick shit house! Loving the Steel Guide Rod, Steel Slide Guides, SS Mags, etc. This gun is a BEAST! It feels much better than a Glock 19. I can see why the FNS9 and FN509 are starting to get the attention of the Military, and why Police Departments are switching over to it.

@giorodriguez8221 5 лет назад

I think he got the frames wrong because I am looking at my gun and everytime he says "509" looks like my fns

@ashyjeremy 6 лет назад

Love my FNS9. If anything, I wish I bought the long slide version. Just gotta keep my eyes open for a used one. Good vid.

@zenonayala9557 2 месяца назад

All the states are interesting, but can you use the same frame with either slide and barrel.

@jeanfloyd3097 4 года назад

These handguns are both awesome. The feel is great for a women's size hand. Was considering the FN 509 because my boyfriend has one and I really liked it, but decided to get the FNS-9 because I found a better deal and it's a tad smaller and lighter.

@trevorjallen1 5 лет назад

You CAN change the floor plates out and it WILL work. I spent the $5 on the new floor plate from midwest gun works; sure enough they were compatible.

@intheknow3431 Год назад

FN changed to the 509 because there was push back on the design of the FNS slide, people didn't like the left side. I have the 509 and I like it a lot. The FNS was a marginally better gun. A friend has the FNS and we switched guns a couple times and I like my 509 he likes his FNS. The 509 has a expanded line of guns now, lots of models to choose from.

@2439vloe 6 лет назад

Awesome review bro. Question, how does the longer rails affect (if any) the fns over the 509?

@ericwallyn5051 5 лет назад

All we need now is a .40 in 509!

@williamlewis5688 4 года назад

Just bought a FNS 9 long slide with the five inch barrel it's shoots ausome very accurate my CZP09 was my favorite but iam really liking my FNS

@boomee78 6 лет назад

Justin the 509 was based on the fns9c wich was a updated modle of the fns you will see the 9c has a dual spring like the 509 good review i am kinda a fns nut i have fns 9 ,9c, and 9 longslide and prob will get the 509 but i will have night sights on them

@RickDeckard2049 6 лет назад

I bought a 509 about 2 months ago. It wouldn't cycle 115 grain range ammo. Constant failure to extract/eject. Sold it.

@gfinnstrom 6 лет назад

which gun is the best gun ...simple the one you have at the time for the job at hand without MODS or trigger mods the DPS for the state of Arizona have gone from sigs to fn fnx handguns which was a surprise some are using 40 cal and 9mmm according to a major

@MrBill-mq7ti 6 лет назад

The ejection on the 509 seems weaker than the FNS9. I have the FNS9c, changed the mag release to a full size one. Great carry gun.

@leanhard1987 6 лет назад

Mr. Bill Where did you find a full size release? I carry the compact as well.

@MrBill-mq7ti 6 лет назад

leanhard1987 www.midwestgunworks.com You'll have to check back often, they sell out quickly. Out of stock atm. Great upgrade though.

@horseman1956 6 лет назад

Did swapping the mag release in the 9c with the full size release solve the 'sticky' mag release problem common on the compact?

@MrBill-mq7ti 6 лет назад

Mark Gough Yes. However, I didn't find mine to be sticky, just hard to push in enough to release the mag without changing my firing grip.

@horseman1956 6 лет назад

Yes, the mag release button is very difficult to push in and get a positive mag release. Interestingly, it works better from the right side of the gun (lefty hand grip). I checked the midwestgunworks website. It appears they offer two different mag release catches for the fns-9. Not sure which one would work, but both are out of stock, so guess it doesn't matter for now. Thanks for your response!

@RonSpilker 3 года назад

bought an fns9 ls then the 509 came out. Looked today, FNS isn't even on their site now. You can get magazines, but the guns aren't listed.

@josephfolsom2030 6 лет назад

First time on your site. Excellent. I have subscribed.

@5jjt 4 года назад

Why do you say that the FNS9 is superior when you showed us how similar they are internally? I loved the review, btw.

@miamiluck001 3 года назад

Thanks! Good review

@nancyoffenhiser4916 6 лет назад

Justin, This is how I sell an FNS vs. The FN 509..I ask the customer to hear the reset on the trigger. Works every time. When they hear the "tinny" reset on the 509 they put the gun down!

@bigbluemsp 6 лет назад

Nancy Offenhiser my 509 reset is very audible and its tactile.

@Paul_Colton_ 6 лет назад

That million round test the 509 passed does nothing for them, huh? It's all about how the trigger reset sounds. I'd like to meet your customers, I have some real estate in Brooklyn which might interest them.

@talon7333 6 лет назад

Good to know you sell to immature people that probably shouldnt own guns

@Skoora 3 года назад

Is the FNS 9 made anymore? I don't see it on their website.

@Gh0st8.6 3 года назад

I own both. FNS 9 is my EDC plus the first toy I bought the day i turned 21. Personally, I love the 509 more and been looking to bring home the midsize but yet again, I own bunch of FN stuff lol. Latest addition was the Scar 17s and boy is she spoil