@@smallpseudonym2844 Small point, but the word 'incel' existed as far back as 1997 as a shortened name for a mailing list for involuntary celabites. Additionally, incel-dom as we understand it - a group of men who blame women for their own romantic and personal shortcomings - started on love-shy.com supposedly back in 2003.
a movie about a dad struggling with the fact that his little girl is growing up and may someday have sex could have been an interesting story. sounds like they messed it up though.
Can I give this 10000 likes? For years I've been saying that these kind of ideas about men are not just horrible for women, but also for men. I particularly hate the "lovable incompetent" trope that pops up everywhere, and to which men easily bend (if I had a quarter for each time a dude told me "what do I know? I'm just a stupid dude" as an excuse for shit behavior...).
Yeah. This is something I've had to explain to people numerous times, especially when discussing toxic masculinity. "Toxic masculinity" doesn't mean "men are bad." It's a discussion of the ways some of our society's assumptions about men are bad for everybody -- including for men.
Dan narrating how he wished the main character lost his damn mind in the most bizarre violent way possible in the middle of the beach is beyond hilarious!
6:18 At this point I imagined a different version of the movie where it would go 1: turning away boys montage 2: dad character going "total control, total control" 3: turning away boys montage 4: "total control, total control" 5: turning away boys montage 6: repeat til the end of the runtime 7: credits roll
This is my biggest fear about being a father. I don't want to hold back children of either gender from experiencing the world if it's not really threatening. If she has a boyfriend and she wants to have sex with him, you should provide them with condoms so they're somewhat safe. It would be the same if I had a son.
The fact that you're worried about it shows that you care about your own effect as a parent and that's already pretty great. I'm familiar with that feeling myself. I hope that if you do decide to become a parent that you choose to adopt.
What, no mention of the way the film remakes famous scenes from other films from "10" (the beach scene) to "Rebel Without A Cause" (the drag racing), shot for shot and image for image?
i would unironically love to see a remake of this movie, with intentional themes of men feeling insecure about being unable to control the women in their lives, ultimately manifesting in a violent rampage
"It's boys that are happening to these girls," says the actor who played the principal in a Goofy Movie, cementing his position in cinema as someone who gives terrible advice to fathers that leads them to make terrible decisions regarding their children.
I've been binge watching yer videos for the last couple of weeks. I know this one is 9 years old, but I really wasn't ready for how often the R word was used in this one. I wasn't ready for it. I always look at descriptions so I wish there was a CW about it, but it's such an old video i do understand.
I like how he comments about the sexism towards men and women in this video. It's rare to see someone looks at both sides, and I agree with his viewpoints.
1 year old but it's not about "looking at both sides," the feminist concept of male gaze is not just how women are portrayed by men but how men portray themselves in ways that degrade them, reinforcing gender stereotypes. both of those things are part of feminism. you may know this already but i just wanted to point that out
insert cheesy pun here Like the commenter below stated, I prefer not to be pedantic about this stuff, but Dan is taking a pretty classically feminist viewpoint here. It's just that a lot of people are under the impression that feminists as a rule don't concern themselves with or even care about how men are treated, which is simply not true. Now, this is due to a whole host of factors-the simple lack of good accessible information on the matter, bad faith criticism from anti-feminists and reactionaries, particularly extreme feminists muddying the waters with bad rhetoric, genuinely sensible feminists just not being great at explaining themselves, well-meaning people simply not getting it or feeling differently and repeating what they take away-but it's very much *there,* and anyone trying to tackle masculinity from a feminist perspective needs to keep that in mind. Contrapoints actually made a really interesting video on this subject recently, and I highly recommend it, although be forewarned that the jokes are a bit grating for my personal tastes.
@@ConvincingPeople Old answer to an older answer, but I think a point can be made that while feminist litterature and theory certainly talk about how men themselves are negatively impacted by gender norms and patriarchy, the larger social movement (or rathers movements) of feminism don't really incorporate that idea into its rethoric. It is a part of academic feminism, but a minor one, and is mostly abstent from the movement at large. As a man, I find some feminist litterature and a handful of feminist public figures (Contrapoints being one of them) to be incredibly helpful and insightful regarding my own relation to my gender, my sexuality, and how it impact the identity I build for myself. But the vast majority of everyday interactions with feminist ideas and feminists do not touch on this male-centric view of feminism at all, for a multitude of reasons, many of which you already cited. And I think that's not surprising, much of the rethoric of feminism, especially in activism, is built around empowerement, group solidarity, having your voices be heard. Which I think is a great thing, it has allowed women to get on a much more equal footing and emancipate themselves from gender norms, and this process is not over by any mean. Good faith, feminist men however are not in a comfortable position regarding that process. They are asked, and rightfully so, to support the voices of a movement that has historically been first and foremost about the liberation of women and the end of male privilege (which is baked into the movement's rethoric and terminology, hence why we speak of feminism and not gender egualitarianism), and to reject or at least question traditionnal forms of male solidarity and identity. Like Contrapoints said, they are not presented with an alternative model of male identity, but I would add that they also don't have a movement and place to exist as a group and effectively share their experiences, create these alternative models. Not within feminism at least. This allow misogynists like MRAs to have a monopole on any movement whose primary goal is to support the emancipation of men from gender roles. Adding to that the fact that many feminist terms makes sense in an academic text, where they are contextualized proprely, but sound very misandrist when removed from that context (toxic masculinity being the best exemple), I really don't think feminism as it is now can allow men to adress these issues. There needs to be a movement of "masculinists" that supports feminism, shares its goals and fit within its broader framework, but who is organized by men, and for men. Like Dan said at the end, "guys, I think we need to have a chat".
@@poncho3326 I don’t understand the problem. When marginalized communities speak about their experiences, it’s normal for allies to sit down and listen, not carve out their own niche within the movement. Black or gay activists don’t need white or straight allies to talk about the harmful effects of racism and bigotry and how it taints everything and everyone, how being taught these harmful thoughts and behaviors hurts growing whites too. It’s true but it’s not the perspective that created the movement nor why these activists organized themselves. Trying to change a movement to suit you is not being an ally. Being an ally is using your undeserved privilege to magnify the message, to help make actions more impactful, but it’s not the ally’s voice or actions that are the most important. Feminism is a response to the harm of the patriarchal discrimination in our culture, it’s not an answer to everyone’s ills. Men who align with the ideals of feminism, just like other allies, need to sit down and listen. If they want to address the affects of toxic masculinity and want help rejecting the toxicity and defining a healthier masculinity, it’s up to _men_ to become activists in their own circles, not usurp the support and activism away from women that they made for women. Maybe you found it in the meantime since your comment, but there ARE activist/support communities who reject toxic masculinity and harmful gender roles, made by men for men with allies who don’t stand up and say “yes, but what about [others]” when entering the space carved out by men. Off the top of my head, Reddit has the MensLib community where men go to find support and conversation about shedding toxic ideas and living healthier lives as men. It isn’t feminism’s job to make men feel more welcome, a big part of the feminist ideal is that they shouldn’t have to cater to men in order to be heard and taken seriously. And the point of MensLib is that they shouldn’t have to cater to society’s harmful ideals to be heard and taken seriously. Ally-ship is about mutual respect and understanding, not lowering your voice so someone else can be heard without putting the work in to organize themselves.
@@vysharra You're right, you don't understand the problem. The problem is that both men AND women are victims of the system. When men complain about certain aspects of the system, occasionally a well-meaning feminist will say, "THAT's what we're trying to solve," as if men should inherently understand that a movement that basically translates to "pro-women" also wants to assist men. As Poncho stated, that's a difficult message to spread, especially with such a decentralized movement that allows factions within to spread any message they wish (such as militant, anti-male rhetoric in some cases). Plenty of real-life men feel "trapped" by the system they live within, similar to the main character of the movie refenced by the video. These men don't see themselves as the patriarchy or as "oppressors of women." It's problematic, but also natural, that some of these men will be put off by feminism as well. The problem, as Poncho states, is possibly in the terminology. We all have problems with systemic oppression, and while our places within the structure aren't the same, a movement to assist women while simultaneously further belittling men, is only hurting, not helping, the cause.
This makes me want you to review Fist Fight, the movie that came out this year. Like this movie, Fist Fight would be utterly forgettable if not for its shockingly patriarchal portrayal of what the filmmakers thought audiences wanted to see. What's baffling about it, to me, isn't any of the individual things that happen, and it's not even that the film's problematic tropes are still making appearances in modern mainstream movies. Unfortunately, 2017's standards for masculinity represented in film aren't much higher than 1961's standards, so there's no surprise on that front. No, the film is baffling because it was produced by Charlie Day, who, if you've seen anything else from his ouvre, is very clearly not only pretty woke in general, but pretty enlightened about the specific political issues that make the movie problematic. And being both the producer and star, Day surely had some creative direction, so that just raises the question, "What the hell happened?" At first glance, the movie is just another bad, lazy comedy that will be swept away by time, but I see it as something more interesting: a window into what would happen if It's Always Sunny was forced to be boring.
@2:14 Dana Ashbrook? Bobby from Twin Peaks? And he's in a movie about a man who is afraid of his daughter having sex... There's a weird meta commentary here that I'm just not smart enough to make.
Holy shit. I've fucking seen this movie. I remember the scene of her walking down the steps to see her date, and him being creepy and freaking out. I knew that title sounded familiar holy shit. That's the only part I watched but still, well also the beach part but yeah.
Self-loathing? I mean, maybe that's part of it but I would argue that men's representation is more likely to function as a form of permission, if anything.
These ideas are far from being mutually exclusive. Often people use their self loathing as a reason they're not fully accountable for what they do. IE "I'm crazy and horrible, it's just my nature. There's no point in trying to be something better because I can't."
Dan, I wonder if you've ever read/heard of the book The Hazards of Being Male: Surviving the Myth of Masculine Privilege, by Herb Goldberg ? It's an older book, but I read it when I was younger, and recall that it handled many of the same themes discuss here. Maybe check it out!
Congrats for worst simlie ever. "Dagon and azathoth comming for our souls" is like "pinch in the cheek drowing you and being eternally melted by nuclear explosion in your chest". Really insensitive and appropriative.
ok 1 why the loaded language i've seen this video twice and you didn't show anything that would imply the Montages or the beach toms were rapist i gett matt perry but why everybody else 2 while the only time i saw this movie was i think 7 years ago, from what i remember it ends with a message of let your kids grow 3 i agree with you frustration at the cliche but even then i don't see why you pick a movie that very clearly is feeding of the way teenage girls see there parents (typically the father) as overprotective when it comes to growing up and boys.
James Darkos Ok, 1) he's referring to how her dad sees every other man as a 'rapist' when his daughter is around; 2) the moral of the story would mean more if the dad finally realised that men and women aren't hopeless slaves to their sexual urges, and that to think that is incredibly sexist; and 3) the film is very obviously from the dad's perspective, not his daughter's - true, some teenage girls might see their dad this way, but it's clearly portraying this particular stereotype of the over-protective parent from the dad's POV
on 1 if he is referring to the way her dad sees boys?men he really doesn't make it clear and no matters how many times i see it it just seem like loaded language on 2 yeah. I 100% agree on that, but to play devil's advocate you can make the argument that as a family picture the letting your kids grow works best as a lesson for the parents and the children. overall i agree with you on that on 3 i half agree because yeah i was wrong to say "yeah this is a movie for girls to laugh at their insecure dad" i still think the family picture aspect cartoonisizes him to the point of him being the butt of the joke but doesn't commit with it by giving him the P.O.V.
A few of the boyfriendmontage looked very shady and rapey. And the father would fear about his daughters heart broke. by one of them, or that they take advantage of her. That is a valid point of view. Give him at least a part at the end where she he is shwn not as a moron and figures out he can still talk to his daughter and have a relationship with her. Or that his daughter tells him that. The massagage that he seems to left out and is wrong with wanting to protect her is wrong on many levels. Not to mention the stereotype shown in this movie bordering on parody.
Not everything has to be The English Patient. Some movies are made so actors and crew can keep up their medical insurance, pay their rent, and send their goofy ass children to school.
If everyone's able to spot assumptions in the movie's world-view, sure. But if a parent feels validated in their views and so conveys them and acts on them more extremely, or if the scene of attempted rape shocks them into doing the same, or if a kid internalises this view of men and this as the proper way for women to act - especially when unopposed or supported by parents - and so on and so forth, suddenly a huge impact has been made. It's only part of the picture, sure, but when you have so few opposing references as a child, or are as hypersensitive as a parent might be, it's something to be seriously wary of. Worth noting that the solution to these problems isn't censorship but education in logic and exploration of said problems, imo
Your statement about this being a pay-the-rent movie was one of the central premises of the video. The particular phrasing isn't used but the video spends several minutes explaining just how banal and unimportant the movie is. The idea is that an inoffensive pay-the-rent movie is a pretty good reflection of society. Compare that to a movie which tries to make a point, which might be skewed towards just being a reflection of the writer or director and not society as a whole.
boy that's a deep hole. For some reason that movie was around in my house when I was growing up and I certainly didn't understand the inherently creepy and strange message of until I was older.
Will all the episodes you previously uploaded (didn't find out about you until months ago) on blip will be on this channel? I see you've been busy, but I enjoy your videos, and want to watch all of them.
I watched the Siskel and Ebert episode where they reviewed this, and they had on the very same episode - they said they saw it the same *day* so it was probably released the same weekend - a review of SAY ANYTHING. It led Ebert to bring out the Jean Luc Godard axom that the best way to criticize a movie is to make a movie, which Cameron Crowe unintentionally did.
I know this is a late reply, but I think the reason he didn't is because one of the points of The Big Lebowski is actually how bad toxic masculinity is. The only male to not be constantly reasserting his maleness is also the only one who is comfortable with himself: The Dude. There's even a cut scene where Mr. Lebowski screams about how men are all slaves to women while flailing on the ground. Dan wanted to talk about movies that are unaware of their own toxic masculinity.
Artificer No, it's Robbie Rist. Better known as Cousin Oliver on the Brady Bunch, or the voice of Michaelangelo in the first 3 (original) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies.
Artificer And I get that. But he's actually an actor with some decent VO credits to his name, a fairly significant number of songwriting credits to his name, and helped create an original TV trope (sudden inexplicable kid).
Why does he refer to all the men as rapists? Is that supposed to be how the movie frames them, or how the main character sees them, or is that just Dan's opinion?
I don't know how would one think of any other answer, kinda scary that someone would think that it is what Dan thinks of everyone and never ask, thinking about outrageous thing they made up
