@@OceanKeltoi I liked it so much that I think I will speak a bit about it in one of my videos to make a point in relation to the worshipping of these divinities, and point people to this video, if you allow me, of course.
@@WolfTheRed I watched it. it was horrible. How can you speak about something that you clearly don't know about. You start out saying all these things that you say the lore doesn't say (but it does which shows you don't read it apparently) I also like how you say "other" groups it's perfectly fine for them to "gate keep" but it's not ok for people that "happen" to be of white European descent (big surprise,double standards). It's either ok for everyone or not ok for anyone. Also stop using "racists" as a strawman argument to try and put that on people that actually go by the lore and historical information thus making them "Folkish". I'll tell you what. You say that my Ancestors didn't know about "genetics" Also, if you want me to play devils advocate you say we don't know what they thought of "different skin colors". Or there is nothing talking about bloodlines. If I give a source for any of these will you delete you channel?? Because the only people that would like this channel are people that don't have a lot of knowledge of the historical sources, or people whos political views this backs up.
Imagine my shock when I realised that folkism doesn't mean interest in folklore and just listeninig to local old people talking about how they fought with some barn devil.
Ouch, sounds like me after I purchased one of Stephen Flowers's books on staves, only to learn, later, of his less-than-honorable affiliations. I was not a happy camper. The purchase was solely out of curiosity for the subject matter.
This speaks to me. I have been feeling a *lot* of guilt and isolation from being a new Australian Heathen. I don't know my ancestry, but I am fairly sure I'm not Scandinavian and from some of the discorse and conversations I have had with some heathens I have come away with the impression that I am not welcome. So, thank you so much for this insightful video.
Just pointing out that Wotan and Tezcatlipoca, with their overlapping provinces of magic, warfare, kingship and sacrifice (and, if I may say so, their similar temperaments) might get along famously. Had history gone differently, they would have been ripe for syncretism
Syncretism is usually a corruption of urbanized societies the likes of which we didn't see in 1000 AD scandinavia. It totally could have happened on the Aztec side but I think it wouldn't happen on the nordic side until much later and by that time secularism would already have been popularized and we'd likely see several other heresies similar to what we see in American Christianity.
There needs to be an alternate history where Vikings settled America, got along like a good bar brawl with everyone there and the pantheon that resulted being the most metal god damned thing ever put to paper.
@@heathenhammer2344 I don't have to, because it's not relevant. It doesn't matter who worshipped what gods thousands of years ago. We're not living thousands of years ago. Beyond that, the implication that gods who exist in a nature so vastly different to ours even take race into consideration when thinking about us is frankly ridiculous. It would be like wondering the species of every fly you swat away.
@@hufflepuffsith5465 it is relevant. Every people has its own gods and ancestors. That is called diversity. It is how nature works. Tell a Shintoist his culture is irrelevant and that his gods and ancestors are not connected to him. That anyone can worship his cultural gods. Tell a Hindu or a Yoruban the same. Odin is the Allfather of the Germanic peoples. He is not a universal deity.
@@hufflepuffsith5465father of all GERMANS. It was clear which countries he fathered, it was outlined in the eddas. Germany, Denmark, France, Angleland, Saxony, Norway, Sweden are the places where odin and his sons spread his descendants as described in the eddas. The all father as the one force binding everything together and Odin as the all father/ king of the Germans are two different things, i think you are mistaking them as the same. Makes sense that you would mix these translations up considering you disregard the relevance of all this "because it's olddd".
I'm a Filipino wiccan and I thought I was receiving messages from Hecate but every video and book I read on her gave me this gut wrenching feeling of "this is not who is sending you messages" and one night as I was going to sleep I had the most vivid dream. I was standing in a plateau covered in ice and a raven perched itself on me and I woke up as the sun came. From then I new someone else was trying to reach out. All the reading I've done points out to Odin, all the signs to seek wisdom and grow in my career reared their head after I swore an oath to Odin. Odin reached out to me and I've been happy ever since. Thank you for your videos and essays they've really help me move forward in my craft and my faith. Blessed Be!
That's how I began my wiccan path, although I only worship the lord and lady at the moment, I still try to do my research on other religions in an effort to understand them, this channel being one of the many that has helped me on my path.
This is something I've run into alot due to being black. But the idea that these amazing Beings are limited by weird human restrictions always confused me. The Deities I worship don't really care what your bloodline has in it.
It's so interesting to me because as a baby heathen I felt drawn to an orisha (Eshu) but I was scared that would be culturally appropriative*. So I did some research, and the answer I consistently got from experienced practitioners was, "we aren't in charge of who the orishas work with. The orishas make those decisions themselves." I got some warnings to be honest and respectful and not dabble for funsies, because again, these are not some little pet spirits you can control. They have minds of their own and they can have a sense of humor but when they have a reason pissed at you that sense of humor does not play out in especially fun ways. It really impressed on me that this is serious. In contrast, this gatekeeping attitude seems so disrespectful. Most of us can't control who our cats socialize with, but Wotan can't work with whomever he damn well pleases? *note: I did get some advice on specific practices that would be appropriative, like wearing eleke beads. Even then, it wasn't, "you can't ever because you are white" so much as "you would need to find a community and go through the proper steps to be initiated. You should take that process seriously too and not just clamor to get in because you want the pretty beads: it's a mutual commitment and a house might turn you down because you aren't the right fit."
@@LaneMaxfield Exactly. Like Despite me being black I've never felt a pull to any African Deities for most of my life. In fact some black communities so hurt from exploitation exclude other black ppl. (Don't even get me started on colorism) Gods sure are mysterious
Ancestor worship isnt 'racist' exclusion isnt 'racist'. Native Americans regularly exclude anyone who they don't share ancestors from their faiths. Exclusion and supremacy are not remotely the same thing. To quote an elder from the Rosebud Soux speaking to McNallen as he is referenced in this video ''You need to leave because we are about to perform a ceremony only for Indians, you will not find what you're looking for here, you need to drink from your own well'' McNallen is merely drinking from his own well, that is not racism
@@fritjofvalerijs800 this is a dumb take for so many reason. 1) You can join a Native American tribe without having any ancestors among them, genetics doesn't come into it. 2) Heathenry is a modern religion, nobody living has a direct connection to the Gods worshipped by the Old Norse, so excluding people based on some racial category that nobody living even fits into is ridiculous.
@@ygrigoradamii5082 So? My grandma is Catholic, does that make me "genetically" Catholic? If I have ancient Germanic ancestors, does that make me "genetically" Heathen? Who gets to decide where the genetics of a religion reside?
I’m Native American of Kaniénké:haka (Mohawk) descent and I’m a self proclaimed Heathen. I was raised in my own “Traditional Ways” which are still strongly rooted in. But I have brought Norse Pagan spirituality into my life since my early teens. I admit the topic of race in the Heathen community was always something I’ve always struggled with. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable wearing my mjolnir in public (though I still wear it). I find the Gods have been a big part of my life and still are. Though I have met some amazing people with the Heathen communityI have had my run ins with racists who don’t understand why I don’t “stick to my own”. So I’ve been in quite a bit of physical altercations. No matter what anyone tells me I will always welcome the Gods by my side. Videos like this help me to be more comfortable to be more Heathen. Hail Odin!
How do you honor your ancestors and their beliefs, if you worship something that originated out of another peoples beliefs? Not of your tribe? How does that honor their spirits and their memory? Germanic religion/mythology is part of the overall proto-indo-europeans beliefs who came out of the Ukrainian steppes and spread into Europe in the late neolithic/early bronze age. The Europeans slaughtered your people and brought christianity to the tribes in North America in the colonial period. I am curious. In the end you are free to do as your please. But none of your honored ancestors among your tribe held these foreign beliefs.
I am a folkist pagan. I believe the Native Americans have it in their blood to worship our gods. Stephen McNallen shares these views on the North American natives. Regardless, universalism and folkism doesn't have to be such a divider. Hail the Gods!
It's completely possible to love one's ancestry, find and enjoy a potent relationship between the self and the Gods through it, and celebrate the ancient cultures of one's forebears while also being completely supportive to other communities seeking the same thing with their own pasts.
As a Vitki born in India and being super brown I was really scared going to speak with Odin due to being scared of him refusing any help for me and attack and harm me instead. However I saw works of Arith Harger and your videos and decided to meet Odin. All father indeed changed me and I will never bow down to weak heathens who are so scared that they will stop us from finding our purpose with Allfather. I will be the berserkr and fight for Odin.
In my observation, the Norse spirits seem interested in widening the spiritual gene pool and often call to people with talents they want us to learn about. Bringing in "outside experts" is one way to spark interest or memory in the rest of us. They seem to be pragmatic entities.
In the McNallen clips where there's a shelf above his head, note the Wewelsburg "black sun" on the right. The object on the left is a Julleuchter, a pottery candle holder (based on a historical Swedish example) which was given to members of the SS, who were encouraged to treat it as a kind of cult object. Seriously, he has an SS candle holder.
@Theorydriven are u surprised about this? the symbol the old "wolf" expose as his own is a variant of Werwolf Nazi Guerrilla Groups in WW2 (stolen by old faith, of course)
As some one who has a lost ancestry I would hate to be excluded from believing in Odin and Freya. I came into this religion later on in my life, and it truly has helped me. I would never bar any one from sharing my experience.
You can't came into this religion, because it's long gone. All you have is a number of neo-paganistic cults, you could create any cult at any time and to serve whatever gods you want, it's just their particular cult doesn't recognize your views as valid, and that's it.
The gods don't belong to us to give out or hold back to others. We belong to the gods, all of us, even those who don't believe in them. The gods call to whom they will, who are we to deny them?
1) Fuck Folkism. 2) This video was incredibly necessary. Thank you for going so deep into the historical links to the Nazi movements and how much McNallan and others were inspired by them. This is so often ignored by those who inherited these ideas due to the softening of rhetoric by master propagandists like McNallan. 3) The YSEE and other folkist orgs take so much of their sneaky rhetoric from the AFA. It's crazy how much exchange there has been between these abusive groups. As a pagan and as a Haida, I'm proud to stand alongside you with the biggest middle finger we can possibly throw against these harmful beliefs.
Both of you have helped me out so Much, Hail to you Both! And Good on you for calling out Evil and Giving your Enemies no Peace! Heil the Aesir and Vanir!
@@gryphonprovenzano3156 that's strange. No one else seems to be having that issue. Unless you've been previously banned the links seem to be working fine. We've had several new members come in today.
Norse ancestry isn't required. The "heathen" gods were broadly Germanic polytheistic deities with many names that were among the tribes of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Goths, Franks, Belgae and more. You don't have to be specifically "Norse" to worship them.
Excellent video on an important discussion! I would just like to point out that Carl Jung is not the only influence on McNallen's (and Folkish Heathenry's) racism. Else Christensen's "Odinism" was also a major influence on McNallen (the two were good friends, along with Valgard Murray of the Asatru Alliance). For those who don't know of this woman, look her up, but in short she was a Danish Nazi sympathizer and white separatist who created a racialist religion called "Odinism", influenced by a similar racialist religion called "Wotanism" from an Australian racist named Alexander Rud Mills, who was influenced by the "Wotanism" of Nazi Leader Heinrich Himmler and racist Austrian Occultist Guido von List, amongst other spiritual belief systems (Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy for example). The word "Folkish" is also the English version of the German word "Völkisch", which is an adjective that is directly tied to Nazi Occultism and Aryanism. For more information on this part of that history, look up the article "Othala and US Heathenry's Racist Heritage" by Rory Bowman.
I wanted to go into the Volkish element of the history. There’s a lot to unpack on the influences of folkism. I tried to pick a few things that gave an accurate sense for the sake of time. But yes, you are correct. And McNallen is far from the only folkist that was active in the early American iteration of the ideology.
Hey Ocean, thank you very much for this thoughtful explaination. Unfortunately this video seems to have been suppressed by the Algorithm as I had to dig for it rather than it appearing in my feed. Thought you should know.
Ironically, I struggled with similar feelings of Folkism a lot more back when I was Buddhist. However, it was always directed towards myself and never towards others. I was always scared to call myself Buddhist in public because I was afraid people would use my Hispanic heritage to exclude me from the religion. Thinking back on it, I only ever received positive reactions even from Buddhists themselves so I feel quite silly for letting those thoughts control me. Now as a pagan, I find those thoughts never seem to pop up and I proudly worship many gods in the Greek pantheon. I'm not sure what caused the change. Perhaps it was age as I was a teenager when I was Buddhist and I became Pagan as an adult.
Nicely done, Sir! Thank you for the clarity of exposition and thought needed to best explain this subject to those of us who've not sorted it out ourselves!
I was mistaken for a racist because of my Mjolnir Pendant. My girlfriend brought me over to meet her family, her brother took her aside to make sure she wasn't dating a Nazi.
Sounds like her brother isn't too bright and is prejudiced. Does he pull people to the side that wear crosses and ask them if they are in the KKK???or if they support the historical genocide they have committed??? I doubt it. Talk about low IQ and double standards
@@albertcook unfortunately, it's becoming a real concern. Pegan imagry is something that is drawing fascists in a lot these days. It's less personal for me, as I'm merely an atheist that appriciates this stuff from a secular perspective, but even I am finding myself careful in what contexts I show my enjoyment of the Norse pantheon and the tales around them lest I either be misunderstood or attract the attention of people I don't want to draw to me. Ignorance is a universal component of the human experience. As long as it isn't deliberate or stubborn and handled with humility (such as pulling aside for a conversation instead of openly making bold accusations on insufficient information) we should seek to respond with respect when possible.
@@geogeo2299 I can only answer for myself, but if someone in my family decided that being a Nazi was a negotiable enough to date them, I would absolutely disown said family member. Supporting genocide is not an acceptable difference of political oppinion and make no mistake, Nazism is, at least defacto, a conspiracy to commit genocide. Even ignoring that the victims would include people I love and eventually also myself, that's just not acceptable in any way. Add in the personal, and families have historically frequently _killed_ each other for _far_ less.
Did he use the phrase "scientific truth?" You know, I heard a quote recently. It goes something like: "science is concerned with fact, philosophy is concerned with truth." The confusion of science and philosophy is a hallmark of fascism.
we have a massive problem here in Germany, that many elements of the Christian institutions and many members of the general public immediately equate paganism/heathenism with nazism. This is why I do not wear my Mjölnir in public.
They have a lot of nerve, given what horrors Christianity actually endorsed in its past (and present). By this logic, whenever a Catholic priest starts getting preachy, we should call him a child molester.
Not supporting racialism here, but there is some misunderstanding. Race is not a social construction, its kinship and ancestral worship. The problem is that our ancestors are worshipped as gods through ehumerism. Oden is found in my family tree. I am the story of our folk. I guess this video portrait a religious view, and that Oden is the one almighty god that Norse Ancestry are trying to deprive the world of. As a Gode, an Asapriest, i believe anyone living in the northern hemisphere could meet the forces of the gods in our nature. I believe spirituality is endemic and organic. One foreigner approached me and said "i am not one of you" i said its good you come to see the gods. He cried. Foreigners, outsiders are not necessarily a problem for us, its when enemies are hostile and want to school us and teach us about our own culture or how we should think and behave it becomes a problem. Or if people, states trying to destroy the cultural heritage. Otherwise we are an ancient peaceful folk. I love my folk, it dont need to be an organised religion. It comes from heart and soul, and knowledge, both regular and mystic.
Watching the video for the 10th time or so rn and the sentence "Wotan, wether you think of him as a god or an archetype, will intervene" get's me every time. How can an archetype intervene? People can intervene, gods can too, but archetypes? That reification of archetypes is smth that has always anoyed me about ppl like Jung & Peterson etc.
I am SO HAPPY to see this video. I have recently been exploring Viking lore and Nordic history and during the time I've spent exploring I've felt that drive or 'call' people talk about, to learn about the pantheons and spiritual practice. I'm an eclectic witch on my normal days but i've never had a path to really stick to or felt really drawn to like i've suddenly been drawn to Norse and Celtic paganism. My biggest fear exploring this further, however, was running into hate groups and neo-nazi propaganda or white supremist territory, things I don't agree with or believe in and feel strongly against, and the fear that the further I explored this path the more people would see me as part of these groups. The deeper I dive into this the more people I meet who are NOT of these groups and they have helped me greatly to navigate through some of this madness and get to the proper sources where the right information can be found. I was recommended Ocean Keltoi by another pagan youtuber on here who praised his well spoken videos and this video specifically to really help me understand the modern history and what's been going on. This video was an eye opener, I'm so glad to have found and and I LOVE what it speaks about. It's a video I will be recommending in the future and I'll be sticking around the channel as well for further research. :)
Thank you for covering this. When I first started exploring my own faith, I fell into the folkish arguments (my own experience and the experience of the only other pagan that I knew at the time both fell within the folkish lines). I have to stop myself from immediately giving the ancestors argument when faced with this, so this video may be worth several rewatches.
Lol, as a teenager I manage to make contact with my Sicilian fore fathers living from the 1700's and earlier dates, all we did was argue for four years. Their world view never really .. evolved .. since their passing.
Thank you for posting this video, It was both very informative, and easy to digest. It's been something that I wanted to know more about, so I'm happy at the ability to see this video.
FOLKISM traditionally was a western reference to a closed spiritual or religious tradition that’s exclusive only to its native people to practice. There’s nothing wrong with native preservationists keeping their spiritual practice from being commercially farmed out to everyone whether these preservationists are african hoodoo or norse heathenry. TRIBAL is essentially a tradition where one would have to be initiated or invited into it by its native practitioners. UNIVERSAL traditions are a version of a religion or spiritual tradition open to all regardless of ethnicity, etc. Universal Asatru is one example available for anyone outside of northern european ancestry. I believe Hindu & Buddhism is the same (assuming some sects are probably folkish).
Gatekeeping religions based on ancestry or race seems absurd to me. Firstly, based solely on ancestry, what is the cutoff point for an ancestor having worshipped the norse/Germanic pantheon of gods? Can you only worship them if you have a Scandinavian ancestor from between 500-1000? What about people of anglo-saxon or Germanic heritage from the time of ancient Rome? Because the religion practiced by those cultures certainly is a direct ancestor of the religion of the Norse Vikings. And if we accept those people, what happens when we take even more steps back? Because eventually, we'll hit the point where we find the culture who spoke Proto-Indo-European, the root language of almost all European languages, and the languages of India. Because the religion of this culture is certainly an ancestor of the 'Viking Religion' too - especially as links have been made between the names of SOME of the gods between Norse and Greek pantheons (for example), showing that in some way, the two are related, no matter how distantly. And if we accept that, then how much further back can we go? Because at some point, we will find an ancestor common to every single person on the planet. So at what point does someone get cut off from worshipping the Æsir and Vanir or their Germanic counterparts? And as for exclusion based on race, you run into the same issue. At what point do we arbitrarily draw the magic line that stops someone from worshipping Odin? Because race is an almost completely social construct. As mentioned before, every single human is related - go back far enough and there will eventually be a common ancestor. At what point is someone not 'white enough' to believe in a set of gods? And put yourself in the shoes of the gods for a moment - do you really believe that if a Japanese person had somehow made their way to Scandinavia in the year 800 (around the height of Norse power), became fascinated by the religion of the local people, and made a sincere effort to connect with the Gods of that religion, that they would be spurned by the gods because of their Japanese heritage? I sincerely doubt it. At what point is someone's 'Germanic' or Scandinavian heritage too far gone to be allowed to worship Odin? If someone sincerely wants to practice the Norse pagan faith, why should the colour of their skin or the arbitrarily divided piece of rock they were born on prevent them from doing so? If someone feels like Odin or Thor or Freya is interacting with them, who has the right to tell someone that they're wrong?
Can I as a European descent person dress up and celebrate Kwanzaa, Rastafari, Shinto, and Native American dress and ritual? It's called "cultural appropriation" by every other race when a person of European descent ATTEMPTS to do that. Why however is ok to the same with the Norse/Celtic culture/gods when you are not European descent?!
It makes me extremely uncomfortable how scarily similar the folkish mentality is to the way I came upon heathenry. I began by studying the Saxons and Frisians, my own genetic ancestry, and then adopted their religion... Definitely not folkist, though. If anyone wants to worship Thunor, be my guest
An interest in one's ancestry is an entirely legitimate way of being brought to the path - it is the exclusionary assumption that the gods only care about any given race that is false and problematic. The folkish mentality is characterised by an ignorant and racist definition of heathen spirituality as being contingent to one's ethnicity. McNallen, like so many other racist shitbags in the AFA, goes even further to tap into the cesspool of identity politics in the USA (his primary audience).
For me part of what appeals to me is a connection to a norwegian ancestry i had almost lost. But thats just MY connection. There are a thousand others that could draw someone in and those are valid too. No religion, no god, and no genetics can justify hate
This presents the deepest of ironies. Both above comments admit to finding their ancestral beliefs through their heritage, and *YET* they still pander with the "wahh please don't think I'm a racist". Folkism is natural, it's not evil, just fucking own it like the rest of us. Anyone of a different heritage will have the same view as you, they'll seek their beliefs, not yours.
"The gods will call whom the gods will call." I want you read that phrase a few times over before going on, just to keep it in mind as you read the rest of what I have to say and understand that I firmly believe this idea that the gods are not limited in whom they deem necessary to have as followers at any given point in time. I should probably warn you that when I was told I needed to learn brevity, I misunderstood and thought they said "levity" So you will find me long winded, but funny. Just don't judge my humor by that last joke. That being said, here is my story. Back in the early 90's I came to be a follower of the Nordic gods. By 1995 I had encountered several others and we had formed a local Kindred. That summer one of the other leaders, my self, and our sponsor took a trip to Wisconsin to petition for our kindred to join the Asatru Alliance of Kindreds. On our way we encountered a vehicle with an "Odin Lives" bumper sticker on it. That particular sticker had been created by the Alliance and was sold through their quarterly magazine. We waited outside of the 7-11 we were stopped at to see who came to the vehicle. When the occupants returned we strode over and introduced ourselves, explaining how we recognized the bumper sticker. The owner of that vehicle turned out to be one Steven MacNallen. Jump forward a year to the next gathering that took place here in California in a place called Big Bear. At that gathering my Kindred brother and I had an opportunity to have several conversations with MacNallen. One conversation was on the similarities between the concepts of Hamingja and Chi ( by Kindred brother and I being well versed in eastern martial arts and between the three of us we concluded that they were the same concept, an idea that has been born out to me in subsequent reference books on the subject of life force energy.) Before I go on I would like to make it clear that other than at gatherings and a few a few handwritten correspondences, I never had much contact with MacNallen, perhaps 15 or 20 days total in the 25+ years since we met and other than the conversation I am about to relate we did not much talk about the subject of race at all. I have never read any of his books nor watched any of his videos so you probably know more about him and his beliefs than I do. Another conversation that he and I had was on the subject of ancestry and its connection to the gods. Specifically I was referring to the events in the Lay of Rig, which tells of how HemidallR came down to Earth in human guise and fathered the three classes of mankind, the Rulers, the Merchants, and the Servants. This of course led to a long conversation on the idea of Folkism and Metagenetics. The following is what I took away from that conversation. There is a connection between those of us of Germanic/Teutonic/Nordic ancestry and the gods. The same kind of connection exists between every other culture and the gods that they follow (until those gods and their worship was suppressed and nearly wiped out by the Christians). This means that whether you are German or Cherokee or a Masai tribesman you have an ancestral connection to your gods. What this means is that once you have broken free of the shackles of Christianity, the FIRST place you should look when seeking a religious/spiritual path to follow is that of your ancestors. This idea applies ACCROSS THE BOARD, regardless of what your ancestry is, the best place to start is with the beliefs and practices of those ancestors. For those like me who have a mixed ancestry, well we have more choice inn where to start and a broader base from which to launch that quest. let me repeat that last bit for those in the back of the class....for those like me who have a mixed ancestry, well, we have more choice in where to start and a broader bass from which to launch that quest. This connection to our ancestral deities is in no way intended to be exclusionary. it is simply a thing that exists on what is most likely a metaphysical level, although in cases where deities are believed to have actually mated with humans a literal genetic connection could be implied...or at least inferred. BUT, again this is by no means intended to be a line in the sand, or a separation any more than the fact that you have your family and I have mine is intended to be a separation that would prevent children of ours from working together, or being friends or marrying. So folkism for me was an acknowledgement of a connection to the gods of ones ancestors but not a prohibitory idea that would prevent people who have connections to other gods from taking up the worship of Odin or Athena or Shiva. At least that was the take away I had from that conversation with MacNallen. When I expressed it to him it seemed to make him a bit uncomfortable, almost as though he either had never thought of the fact that this idea could be applied across the board, or he had and had hoped that no one else would come to that same conclusion. I will point out here that my position on this issue tends to make everyone a little uncomfortable, some because I reject the racism that can be all too easily applied to the idea and others because my take is still too close the the idea put forth by racists for them to be comfortable with. At the beginning of all of this I said "The gods will call whom the gods will call." I firmly believe that. If Odin wants a Cherokee poet in Valhalla, or Thor wants a Massai cattle herder in Bilskirnir, or Loki wants...okay so no one really cares what Loki wants...but you understand my point. It is not up to you, or I to question whom the gods call. So all in all that's my take on the whole thing. I can understand how Folkism as MacNallen understands it can and is used to promote a racial agenda, It saddens me that in 80 years we seem to have learned nothing. Edred Thorsson wrote in "A book of Troth", while the AEsir are essentially the gods of the Teutonic peoples, others haver been sufficiently economically, culturally, financially or linguistically "Teutonicized" as to have a strong connection to the gods as well. I am, of course paraphrasing as I am too lazy to walk across the room to my bookshelf and get the book, but this paraphrase captures the essence of what he was saying, that more than just people of Teutonic ancestry can be followers of Asatru...as I said twice before..."The gods will call whom the gods will call."
I think this is a very fair interpretation and one I tend to agree with. Being of mixed Indian and English/German descent myself, I have incorporated both Hinduism and A-S paganism into my religious outlook. I feel a connection with both, probably from a combination of ancestral lineage and personal interest. I feel like any person breaking away from the Abrahamic religions should look into the faith of their ancestors first. However, whichever gods call you, they call you, and you should decide how to chart your spiritual journey without being locked in by any factor, racial or otherwise. Besides, so many people have mixed descent, including Europeans. For my English side, should I follow the Germanic gods or the Brythonic gods? I descend from followers of both. At some point you have to make a choice, and you can make that choice while still respecting and appreciating the gods of your ancestors that you don't incorporate into your day-to-day practices.
Gods, it's so crazy. When I first started practicing Norse/Germanic paganism, I was actually subscribed to Stephen Mcnallen. Found his channel when I was looking up how to celebrate Yule. After awhile I started watching his other videos and saw the one on race and quickly unsubscribed after that. Like, he sounded so damn dumb. I just kept thinking to myself, "that's not how race works! The hell are you talking about?" I had no idea that he was actually a big figure in this community, so I was really surprised when I saw his face pop up while watching your video.
Can you explain how he, "sounded like so dumb"? Genuinely serious question. I'd also like to read your take on what race is and how it works. You seem like a really smart person and I'm like so eager to learn
@@jaytheblueeyedelf989 It was in regards to his thought that the “white race” was going extinct. I believe he thought that all this foreign influence and breeding outside the race was going to make the white population decrease or something. He’s not the first person to talk about this, it’s something that gets brought up every so often and the argument usually sounds a bit racist. The problem is a “race” can’t really go extinct. I think the only way something like that could happen is if everyone targeted a specific race and constantly tried to kill or cull them. We’ve seen something like this with ethnic minorities, like how Manchurians have become somewhat ethnically extinct due to a lot of Chinese people killing them over the years. But you can’t really kill off a whole race of people. There’s also the fact that “different races” for people isn’t even real, it’s more of a social construct.
So you're okay with European descent folks getting a Kwanzaa candle, doing native American rituals, Shintoism, and Rastafarianism right? I thought that was "cultural appropriation"? Why is it that it is called that only for European descent people but allowed when other cultures descendants want to get into Norse paganism and Celtic paganism? Why can't everyone just acknowledge that our ancestors had their own gods and it was HEAVILY the culture of the peoples. To each HIS OWN.
POOR YOU,YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, POEPLE WHO PRACTICE PAGANISM, THE GODS CHOSES THEM, PAGANISM GODS THEY ARE MOST WELCOMING GODS, NOW, DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF PAGANISM, ITS PLURAL, THEY ARE MANY, AND OH BOY THEY HAPPY, THE MASSES JOINING THE HAPPIER, SO DEAR, HOPEFULLY YOU UNDERSTAND WHY MASSES ARE ATTRACTED TO ANY GODS, P.S, I DONT BELONG TO PAGANISM BUT I HAD HISTORY ON THAT LINE BUT NOT ANYBODY, JUST ENJOY YOUR JOURNEYS WITH WHATEVER YOUR DOING,OR YOU CAN COME TO US I,ONE GOD WORSHIPERS BUT THERE YOU WILL COMPLINE GOD IS ALLOWING EVERY POEPLE TO WORSHIP ,POEPLE SHOULD GO BACK TO THEIR GODS 🤷♀️ AS FOR GODS THEY ARE HAVING A BALL,OF MASSES FROM EVERY CORNER OF EARTH JOINING THEM, AND NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT,
If "races" are now called "ethnicities" or "ethnic groups" it doesn't mean they're social constructs; it just means that we've changed our vocabulary and our meanings due to political reasons. Your examples just mean that throughout history there have been different understandings: as nationalities, as peoples, as tribes, etc., but it always boiled down to an understanding of a difference. This is not to justify discrimination, of course racism is always wrong. But "racism is wrong" does not equate to "ethnicities don't exist". They do exist, we just shouldn't discriminate on that basis of difference.
Folkists seem to forget that Indoeuropean gods have common roots. Tiwaz / Tyr is the same word as Jupiter, Zeus, Deus, and the Indian Dyaus Pitar. Donar is similar to Taranis. There might also be a link between Kali and Hel. Let‘s celebrate the richness of these legacies. And, btw, I am German and I don‘t think that Wotan will intervene. Windalf should, however, blow away the coronavirus, if he wants to be helpful. Bet he‘d do a better job than Mr. Copeland.
Yeah, .. great .. ideal, call/ summon .. both .. Kali & Hel at the same time. First off you will only get one of their very minor astral avatar aids. Gods are metamorphic energy fields charged with a given wave frequency that grow, shape, change and take on new identities over the centuries. As a country boy I know what electric fences feel like and some of the Hindu deities give one hell of a pop. And here I am arguing/ debating or whatever in German language root name/ words, .. Wotan, wOtan, VO'Tan. Wo = what ever & who really knows. Tan = hedge row of pine trees to shelter horses or herds from winter winds. As a teenager I did my best in the early 1990's to track everything down I could in the public library regarding occult/ early religion history. Along with stone napping and smelting my own steel. " How did tribal folk heroes turn into gods over time." Other than lacking horses and a bunch of farm animals, during summer months I lived outside in huts and lived as close to the ways stone/iron age people did. Yeah, I was trying to have a spiritual vision. So did you have any luck with Wotan or Windalf, or did you just get lecture in a sterner way then what your grand parents normally do? By the way, I am a descend from more than a few hundred year old military family whose charge was to maintain the forest lands and my great grand father was a officer for Germany during WW I. Just image the fist fights I had growing up in America with people wreaking my plants & circles. Please tell me you did not have to deal with religious harassment growing up.
Thank you for the video. McNallen is mostly too boring in his propaganda speeches, so people often just skip his outright Nazi sermons. It is good you made this point here. This is very dangerous and has to be addressed.
Technically yes, every religion has their own form of gatekeeping. The issue is that Religions such as Norse paganism were open to all types of people, not just those who were of Norse decent. What Folkist's are doing is destroying the core values and principals of the religion by gatekeeping the religion from anyone who isn't white and or Scandinavian.
@@aidenharvey3784 If a group of people do nothing to maintain what they have, they will lose it. If they practice race mixing they will lose the very essence of what makes them whom and what they are over time. If this is "gatekeeping" then I am all for it, otherwise we all end up as some faceless blob eventually, and the future people of these ancestors will look at photos and not even recognise themselves as being from those ancestors.
I'm curious. Where, exactly, does this leave things like Native American tendencies towards viewing their faith as native-only, and their spirits as hostile towards non-native colonisers?
@@OceanKeltoi Thank you! Will look into it ASAP. Have a busy day ahead of me tomorrow so it might be a day or two, but I'll write it down and make sure to look into it deeper. It's an interesting topic to say the least and being well-informed on it is most certainly of importance to me.
@Zu To be fair I personally found her answer satisfying. It's in many ways the same thing with nationalism: There's a vast difference between the nationalism of the oppressed, like Gandhi's nationalism in the face of colonial rule, and the nationalism of the oppressor. In addition, she emphasized the distinction between culture and family heritage.
@@TheLostArchangel666 As a mixed race native, I found her answer to be unsubstantial. I've personally experienced exclusion from my own tribe for not being native enough. I lived on the res, went to pow wows and to be honest, they'll let you dance but they're gonna talk shit while you do it if you aren't brown enough. Not because of blood quantum or because casino money but because you just aren't brown enough.
All very compelling and interesting stuff. As a person interested in paganism and witchcraft, but not identifying with anything in particular (I'm still searching), I have seen this attitude frequently from several different angles. Particularly in Pinterest comment boxes on folk beliefs associated with different geographical areas and ethnicities. It is very common to see white people screaming at other white people for burning white sage as a folk religious practice, because that's ONLY allowed for people of North American aboriginal descent, and you are culturally appropriating the practice if you are not genetically related to those groups. Similarly, people make comments under posts on Voodoo magic like 'If your skin ain't melanated, STAY AWAY from these practices!' It's just important to note that this type of gatekeeping is all over the place in pagan/folk traditions of all kinds. It's not just white people doing it for so-called white culture. But it's funny to see the white savior attitude on behalf of non-white traditions 'defending' their 'right' to 'separately but equally' pursue their pagan beliefs and practices. Even if it has absolutely no basis in history or reality. I also want to observe about the ancient world and the practice of offering tribute to the local gods of the place you may be visiting. That was ubiquitous in ancient times, and highlights how truly diverse and open polytheistic society actually was. The notable exception to this is the Old Testament kings and prophets who absolutely REFUSED to offer any kind of polite veneration of the gods of other groups. Who were so antagonistic towards being told to offer tribute, that they fought wars over it. It's funny to see the Asatru people trying so hard to emulate this 'Odin requires exclusive devotion' rhetoric. That just sounds like their ascribing qualities of the Judeo-Christian Yaweh to Odin.
I'm looking for your response to January 6th and the use of European pagan symbols by some members of Trump's mob. Is this it? It should be noted that far more Christian symbols were used by both the Nazis and the maga movement. Both movements came from Christianity, not paganism.
Im a german and a pagan. I have the strong desire to deny this old goofbag. Imagine: Ragnarök begins and only german warriors go to the fight. Of course before 8pm because of "Ruhestörung" :D Just google the word, we love such nonsense.
This is what made me step back from heathenry. I was on web forums in the early 2000’s and just got too much of american.....i guess Asatru. It even rubbed off on me leading to some cognitive dissonance that just got me....tired. What ended up happening is that i bagan practicing ( and still do ) mainly in private, seldomly even speaking of it. In Sweden it seems most heathens ( the ones i meet at least ) are nowhere near the concept of ”folkish” vs ”universalist” ( are these terms still used ? ) A gydja i know described American asatru as a ”related but different religion” . The term ”forn sed” is often used here ( and that’s the one i use too ) to a more reconstructivist and folklore leaning heathenry. I for the sake of argument told a friend ( an archeologist focused on Norse archeology ) that i almost had in mind formulating the idea and argument as a joke ,that only people who grew up in a Nordic country had access to the Norse Gods ( regardless of skin coulour etc ) because the culture, language and topography played in to even understanding or conncting to it. We had a laugh about it since,ofcourse, that would be equally bonkers.
Sweden is a very ethnically homogenous country, thats the reason the concept doesnt exist because its essentially folkish by default. Everyone has access to the Norse, Germanic gods etc, its just far more likely that if you have Germanic ancestry you will find them. The main issue with McNallen is thers no need for exclusivity to be enforced, it generally enforces itself with self selection into the group. The main argument for Folkish is the universalists embrace modern woke politics which actively undermines either traditional or reconstructivist faiths and beliefs
@@Frenchfrys17 That is one of them. To Folkist's/Nazis, you have to be white and or Scandinavian to be apart of Norse Paganism. What defeats their entire mindset is the majority of these nonjobs are American (though there are some Folkist's throughout Europe) with various degrees of Scandinavian ancestry, yet they go around thinking their "purebloods".
@@aidenharvey3784 My other critique is that I highly doubt the Norse/Vikings share the racialist or ethnocentric views that modern right wing neopagans have. They travelled and settled to other areas and even brought back foreigners to their homelands time to time.
This issue is that this problem do not just exist in the norse faith. I had a hard time from a native american medicine man because he said im white and we dont want to include you. So its not just the norse faith its everywhere
I think there can be a valid middle ground to the Folkish position. The Gods can choose whom they want to, but that's not carte blanche for anyone to impose themselves into a tradition. If we respect other indigenous traditions (Māori, Navajo, Yoruba, etc.) then it's only natural to ask for one's indigenous tradition to be respected in the same way. Can a Māori, Navajo, or Yoruba deity call a non-Māori, Navajo, or Yoruba person to their service? Yes. Should one impose oneself and say "I WANT TO worship the (Māori, Navajo, Yoruba) deities and you HAVE TO accept me"? NO. Hence, the middle ground.
Well, Scandinavian folklore is centered on ancestral veneration. It is a Tribal Ethnic faith. If you dont have the ancestors you cant actually practice its. Our Lore supports this as well since it has us descended from our gods. Other peoples are also, rightfully, able to be folkish.
I'm not sure what the argument for this is beyond sheer assertion. And it doesn't address the arguments I put forth in my video. Historical revisionism doesn't belong in Heathenry. I, for one, am against being a fluffy bunny.
That also denies that people were adopted into clans and tribes from far away places. Are you saying that if someone from North Africa traveled Europe in the BCs, he wouldn't be able to integrate with a Norse community just because his ancestors weren't from the area? Why should the Gods be bigoted? That's such a narrow minded view it's puzzling why it's held to so tightly.
@@OceanKeltoi alright fluffy bunny, in Japan the native folk religion is Shinto, where ancestors and ancestry are not seen as separate. The Japanese go to Shinto temples to venerate their ancestors. As a non-Japanese, attempt to worship at a Shinto temple and insist that you should be able to. You will not be permitted due to the fact that you are not Japanese. Couldn't you also consider this exclusionary and folkish in its own way?
I watched your vid👍👏 and Aliakai, Wolf vids👍👏 I want to talk about Metagenetics to explain the difference between the USA and French-speaking Europe. In 1985 the article would have triggered 2 reactions, a burst of laughter and this guy is a Nazi. Why? Because France with laïcité produced a great man Albert Jacquard. He has held important positions (see Wikipedia). What English Wikipedia doesn't say is that he fought as a geneticist against racism. Books, lectures in schools, textbooks, he already demonstrated at that time that genetics excluded racism. When a geneticist shows you that racist discourse, whatever it is (metagenetic) goes against genetics, that carries weight. This is why the first time I was in the States I was embarrassed by the casual use of the word race.
I'm a white latin american of full Iberian heritage, but the Iberian peninsula itself is a historical mix up of everything : greeks, celts, nords, romans, phoenicians, arabs etc. So... according to the folkist views to which branch of paganism should I turn? Asking just out of curiosity.
I guess you'd get your pick - tbh just do what feels right. If everyone did that and accepted that, there would be no issue. I think Folkish are just afraid of their religion being commodified and turned trendy and losing meaning as something that is tied to their ancestry
It is best to turn to the path that your soul feels the pull to. But if you really want to focus on the traditions connected to your blood, I would suggest you do more research on your independent blood. What are you most of from the Iberian Peninsula?
Well, considering the ancient Iberians and Celtiberians were the majority of the population and these people still make up the majority of the DNA of the peoples of the Iberian peninsula, you may want to look in that direction.
How is he right in the slightest? He's just a wannabe-German Abrahamic in a Viking costume, all of the shit that the idiot blabbers is just Judeo-Christian beliefs repackaged, all of which are inherently insulting to the Gods.
You are right that Odin, nor Freya is folkish. Racism is a human construct, and it seems every religion is plagued with ego driven, small minded humans who try to limit the limitless.
@@fritjofvalerijs800looking after your family and caring about every single white person are two incredibly different things. Not all white people are the same and having a sense of unity with them is weird af
So like how far back do the ancestors not count anymore? Cause we all come from a handful of humans who originated in Africa, like does mitochondrial Eve not count as our collective ancestor? Like at what point are we like "that's as far back as I care to look"
Well said, sir. As an aside, I learned a great deal about Asatru, experienced my first rituals, and witnessed a Pagan Priestess be called to the service of Odin. And she is Latina.
Good job Ocean! As I tell people, especially when it comes to this folkish nonsense, it's the Gods who pick their followers not genetics. Put plainly," the Gods know who their children are!"
I sincerely appreciate your content. Genetically I am Germanic/Slavic/Celtic. I was raised around American hoodoo and Haitian Voodoo, and now practice a lot of different practices . While I was welcomed into Haitian voodoo by my cousins ( and actually visited my distant cousins in Ivory Coast to be initiated into the iwa). I’ve been welcomed into Cuban Palo here in Chicago. At the same time I have encountered a lot of accusations of ‘cultural appreciation’ by some practitioners. I have however NEVER encountered this from serious practitioners of these faiths. Oh and yes I also use the runes and have had some incredible experiences with the Norse tradition. I fell for my now wife big time during a Hel ritual. Her invocation to the point of possession was so scary I knew she was the one. Enough meandering thought. Again thank you.
Mark, thanks for sharing. Years ago a friend met a Santeria practitioner at a generic spiritual learning group. Shortly after she began having a recurring dream in which a black man was waving at her, pushing through crowds trying to reach her. Her ancestry is Eastern European. She called this woman to ask for help with the dream and was advised by her that the orishas were seeking her out and she should acknowledge them. She did and I can tell you a lot of interesting things came from this. The woman's group was very positive in helping her and impressed the orishas sought her.
I've met people who think black people can't worship pagan gods becuse they can't possibly have white ansesters. But mixed racial marrages and my own cousins who are halph white halph black debunk this and they are just as much desended from the celts as I am. People forgot mixed backgrounds exist and the fact you can be spiritually drawn to concepts that don't really reflect what ansesters we have. For example ancient faiths would constantly adopt stuff from other faiths. And for awhile I was pretty drawn to martial arts Wich come from Asia and as far as I know I have no asian decent but that doesn't mean I can't want to learn about there spirituality. People need to stop gatekeeping and let people explore.
Not great arguments here, if we're honest about it. "People would honour the gods of foreign lands as well as their own" This is true, but it doesn't negate the inherent distinction. They didn't incorporate the foreign gods into their own regular practice, it was merely a customary social affair. You may also point to syncretism, but especially for Rome, this has a primary political purpose over a spiritual one. "Race is a social construct" This isn't what research actually shows, despite this being a common mantra. The modern conception of race lines up with genetics and the study of how ethnic groups cluster together based on their dna. "Romans had a different conception of race" While this is true, it also isn't a devastating argument. They had different conceptions about many things, and that was mostly down to their limited ability to apply science or conduct research. It also smacks of an extreme reconstructionist mentality, such that the belief system cannot progress from it's historical boundaries. If someone wants to go full construction, wearing togas and living in their own villa, be my guest. But it's entirely absurd to update various elements of the theology and not others. If one, quite rightfully, adapts their sacrifices to modern social standards, it doesn't make sense to cling to others for the sake of a weak argument. In other words, it really is irrelevant. That being said, their conception wasn't miles away. The likes of Aristotle still saw black as being different. The only *real* difference is that the world was a lot larger, respective of travel, and less globalised. The historical romans and gauls were no more different than modern french and italians, the difference is our frame of reference has had to expand to incorporate numerous ethnic groups the Romans had no idea about, like native americans, or inuit, or australasians and polynesians. What it all amounts to is special pleading, whether it's special pleading about placing limits on thr gods (hint: it's not a limit, just purely a population preference. No different to judaism saying their god was entirely omnipotent and yet still made an exclusive covenent with them. Is it still a potency limit? Not really), or special pleading about "well what if random non-germanic wanted to worship thor?", to which the appropriate answer is 1) I don't care about hypotheticals, and 2) I really don't care. People gravitate toward their own heritage anyway. It's why most pagans of all stripes begin as selfrace-history buffs. At the end of the day, folkishness is at the core of paganism, and is the overwhelming reason many become pagan (i.e. the numerous pagans who began as history buffs, curious of their own heritage of ancestry). The only thing that matters is who can be honest about it. If you want to pretend it isn't the case, do as ye wish, but don't feign some misplaced sense of superiority about it, clutching at straws for some terrible arguments to support the cause. All it's about is the "waycism" schtick being a major social taboo, and people of lesser testicular fortitude wanting to appease the media by prostrating themselves over it.
Thank you for answering this ridiculousness and hatred with such level-headed eloquence. Next time a "Norse Pagan" Neo-Nazi gives me crap, I'm just going to refer them to this video. I'm Wiccan and experience and work with deities from different pantheons; from the Nordic specifically, Freya, Odin, and Thor. I didn't go out looking for them, they reached out to me, and the notion that they did so because I have Swedish ancestry (among others, being American) is insulting to both them and me. In short, Folkish followers have no idea what the fuck they're talking about, and I think the ones laughing the loudest at them are the gods. Thanks again for such a great video. Blessings to you on your path.
Descent or lineage or genetics or race, does play a vital role in the polytheist worldview. According to the Greek tradition, 'common blood' is one part out of the four that consist a Nation or Ethnos. The other three being religion, language, and ethics. This said, there does exist a certain trend especially amongst north-Europeans (some) and Americans (more) to elevate descent to the primary or decisive ethnic characteristic or trait. This is justified in the context of population decline over the so-called West, in contrast to the overpopulation in Africa and Asia. This decline however is itself a result of cultural factors. So the tribalists heated debate about race is rather misplaced- it's culture what they should be discussing about.
@@Nobody32990 Wrong, Soul is separate from the body and from a spiritual standpoint, all souls are connected through divinity, something Christianity doesn't actually teach.
Dude. Your my hero. The I've spent the last few months just falling down the rabbit hole of these racist wannabe "pagans" that are out here being racist,and exploiting my spirituality (and there own) Thats actually how I found your channel. Which by the way is like a breath of fresh air after all hate I've consumed. Thank you so much for spreading the word and fighting the bigotry!♡
''We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children'' - McNallen ''We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Native American children'' Is only one statement a racist wannabe ''pagan'' or do you find both equally as offensive? There is nothing bigoted over wanting to protect your people, culture and faith from outside influences. Even if most paganism is reconstructionist, that so much of the universalist paganism includes woke lefty politics means it doesnt really exist as its own entity anymore, its just part of the same politically correct cathedral as many others
Gatekeeping is bullshit and saying something like we must protect our white children....is weird. Maybe see a therapist kind of weird. I was growing up in a small town town in Germany were people were talking like that...not all but some and one thing i know is...when it sounds like a duck and is walking like a duck its a duck...same with nazis even if they try to be inconspicuous.
This is why I avoid groups. Individuals are tough enough to deal with. Get them into groups and it's all and only about power, the siren song of the room temperature IQ.
Okay, I know this is an old vid, but I've just recently found this channel and am loving the insights. It's helping me understand what being a heathen is more. I had to comment on this one, though, because a lot of what McNallen said in those clips sounds exactly like what I hear my step-dad listening to in the living room (and sometimes parroting). The stuff about white culture being under attack, minorities "taking over" . . . there's a few differences but honestly, had you shown just the clips McNallen and given no context, I would have immediately pegged him as a racist. The fact that he said it calmly or matter-of-factly does not stop him from lying.
Folkism, ultimately, is the idea that a religion is a unique feature of a certain and specific people and is inseparable from them as a group. In other words, I never “converted” to Ásatrú. Since my thrice great grandmother was an immigrant from Denmark, I *am* Ásatrúar. My “conversion” was the simple recognition of that fact. It has nothing to do with my skin color but everything to do with the people I belong to. Universalism simply doesn’t work because heathenry isn’t a missionary religion like Christianity or Islam which holds the opposite position, that religion isn’t bound to any unique human person and can be layered atop any people or culture. This is perhaps my biggest issue with universalism; if anyone “can” practice my religion, there’s no reason why I shouldn’t therefore say everyone “should” practice my religion. After all, if there’s nothing binding a particular view of the Gods to my ancestry it becomes almost a matter of opinion. The idea that the Gods chose to reveal themselves to a certain people is meaningless because there is no unique “people”. To quote Galatians 3:28, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female...” This means that Odin instead of being a unique figure to me as a Dane becomes simply another interpretation of divinity much like Christ or Allah, the only difference being I find Odin to be the correct interpretation. To then say someone can interpret divinity however they want would then mean I’m encouraging people to be wrong. Either that or I lack any conviction in my belief and assume that’s no one position is “right” or “wrong”, which is just silly and I think again insulting. The only thing really standing in the way of a “one true church of Odin”, is this idea of folkism. I think even you heretics are realizing that as many have adopted the title “inclusive heathen” as you’ve realized “universalist” is literally the definition of the word “Catholic”. The problem is, you really can’t get away from that. Uni’s gonna unify, its what you do and I don’t want any part in it.
"if anyone “can” practice my religion, there’s no reason why I shouldn’t therefore say everyone “should” practice my religion" --- wow, first prize for logic there. /s
@J. Smith What does that have to do with anything? Christianity and Islam are universalist and also proselytizing. But these two things don't necessarily go together. I can think anyone can practice my religion, if they want to. If they don't, that's fine too. Everyone has their own path, it doesn't make any sense for me to say other people must practice my religion, but it also doesn't make any sense for me to say that other people are forbidden from practicing it. The point is to not impose on other people, one way or the other.
@@carmensavu5122 Apparent-fuckin'-ly. It's like running into a YEC and asking them why, and they try and list out the genealogy in the KJV, like it's historically accurate, despite MOUNTAINS of evidence against what they are saying.
The greatest allure that polytheism has is its inclusive not exclusive nature. Abrahamic religions are full of rules and structures to seperate such as "chosen people" and formal initiation practices like circumcision and baptism
All things related to life are downstream of biology. This is not a statement of preference, or hate, but rather fact. Your biological makeup forms how your brain works and therefore your mind. Yes, different races have many similarities but also many miniscule and not so minor differences. You can see how forcing different races together has a strain on culture as culture has biological roots. There is a similar result with religious strain as religion is also downstream from biology. These are not statements of hate. Different breeds of dog behave differently, as do different races of similar birds. We can either recognize and embrace each other's traits or ignore them and deal with the strife that follows.
I’ve heard him before. He’s a very good public speaker, and like the best demagogues, he focuses on the emotive rather than the rational. Enthrallment is the point. Demosthenes nailed it: Delivery. Delivery. And again, delivery.
Frankly, I think Mcnallen style religious racism is much closer to what ancient paganism would have looked like, tribal Us and Them thinking being very natural to people around the world, but that is not the same as the nazi thinking that pops up nowadays. Being concerned about homosexuality and transsexuality is something that obviously is a result of existing in a culture dominated by secular woke ideas, such things would never have arisen thousands of years ago, neither could concern about genetics which required darwin to come first.
18:47 “Who command a system of magic which alter the very strands of time” Source? The Gods are not all powerful. They are still beholden to örlög. Odin has to die during Ragnarök, he has no choice. No Galdur or even seidhr can alter this.
Folkism is just "people of the folk faith" which is essentially people who follow and honour Nature, and often in a tribal way in small communities where everyone is of the same kind. Carolyn Emerick has done a lot of excellent work in this area.
Very interesting! I wrote a paper on Lana Lokteff (the founder of RedIceTV) and she references these 'archetypes' often, identifying with Freya (in a super secist way; women are only here to beautify the world, they are not here to lead or live publicly. Basically babymaking machines). Which is odd because while her husband is from Sweden, she is Russian and they hammer that home quite a bit. Wouldn't that mean she can only claim Slavic gods? I hope they find their way to a true path eventually.
@Radagast Not really. They have as much overlap as the languages has and as much diversity as well. I bet you would not say that all European languages are practically the same :-)
Freya just a beautiful baby making bimbo not leading or living publicly? Ohhh my! It seem that she has lost out quite a lot of Freya's character. Both as a leader over the Valkyries, the first chooser of the slain warriors and a fearsome battle goddess in her own right, holding the power of life and death. The mightiest of the Vanir, a mighty sorceress who actually taught Odin magic and acting as an equal to him. She is fiercely independent and time and time again openly and publicly opposing Odin, betting against him i battles of men and quite frankly often telling all the male Aesir to practically go f**k them selves whenever they have a plan or another involving her but not asking her in the first place. She also actually quite few children to be a "babymaking machine" :-) So Freya is just about as far from just beautify the world, not leading, not living publicly and being a baby making machine as you can come...
@@sirseigan oh I know! No offense to the goddess, I was just copying what Lana said. But I did feel my heart speading up in excitement by what you wrote, so thanks❤
Thank you for discussing this. Part of what got me interested in heathen beliefs and practices was a desire to reconnect with my pre-christian ancestors. I was not raised Christian, and I was beginning to feel irritated by how long pagan religions had been absent from my ancestry. I'd like to think that I would fall for any toxic folkist narrative, but clearly many others have been convinced by them. So I can't help but think that, if I'd stumbled upon the wrong sources, I might've been lead down the path toward folkism. I'm glad I found people like you who share information like this. I hope others who are new to heathenry find videos like this so they know what to look for and what to avoid in their quest for knowledge. Thank you for what you do.
Folkism among Norse practitioners is kind of the same thing among my own Culture. My fellow Tribal members tried to tell me I have no rights to participate in anything Tribal(stomp dances , rituals , or Cultural celebrations because I have blond hair and blue eyes. In fact I was told I need to dedicate my life to Nordic Gods by one of my younger brothers before he knew that I had undergone Tribal initiation where I was recovnized as an adult amongst our Tribal people. My brother who is 13yrs younger than me asked where he was when I went thru the Tribal initiation. I explained to him he was not in attendance because he was a baby at the time. As ot turns out he was not given initiation as an adult. Still hasn't been given the opportunity and he looks very Native where I just look like a "White Guy" So may not exactly be the same thing but seems very similar to me
sadly i think this happens here in Australia too, though mostly I think it's mostly a clan/tribal thing were outsiders in general aren't allowed in certain in sacred sites(even by gender within a tribe) or witness ceremonies and rituals rather than a racial issue... though i understand if it were, the stigma of mistrust that would be attached to Europeans here given our country's history. But over here your percentage of indigenous ancestry doesn't matter if you want to identify with it just as long as it's there it doesn't matter how "white" you appear to be, though it hasn't always been like this early in our history if a mixed race child was born it was often disowned by both European and indigenous groups, though even though we still have our fair share of issues this attitude has changed dramatically over time. So your not alone mate be proud of who you are and who you are is part both cultures don't let those too ignorant to understand put you down and rob you of your sense off self :)
It's very sad that you were excluded in this way. White Europeans should absolutely be welcomed into Native American tribal initiations. Who do they think they are, speaking for the Gods? The ATRs have this same racist problem with excluding people outside of their ethnic community from initiation and I think there's a lot of activist work still to be done before these insular traditions are dragged into the 21st century and forced to include people who don't look like them or share the same history.
Hávamál 132 (Andy Orchard translation) advises "...never hold up to scorn or to spite any guest or traveller." There's also just the general sense throughout that Odin is advising to be welcoming and open to new people who haven't done anything wrong. I see a rejection of any form of xenophobia, which would include folkism, as one of the core messages of the main surviving text that explicitly deals with morality and guidance.
This'll be useful for future content in response to both the folkists and the natsocs. And, Ocean, I'm sorry dor how rash and needlessly aggressive I was in the comments when you talked about Mesha. I shouldn't have been so quick to say the stuff I did say.
I used to be folkish. I am not proud of it. I was a member of the AFA too. Not proud of that either. I left Asatru for some time because I realized that where my mind was at was not good. You have to understand, it's a slow burn to bigotry. I got into the AFA as a new heathen with zero knowledge but a desire to be part of something. Slowly, I started to make little exceptions to my sense of right and wrong, slowly I accepted what they were saying until I was someone saying it. Then one day, I pulled myself out of it and pretty much dropped Asatru like a bad habit. It has been hard coming back and trying to figure out how to even proceed. Not so much personally, but socially. I can have my own personal relationship with the Gods but forging relationships with the people in this faith is not easy, especially when there are so many different opinions. I can learn from my mistakes, but there is a lot of relearning that has to happen. A lot of mental blocks that I held onto for years that need to be worked out. This channel is helping me with that, so thank you Ocean Keltoi.
With McNallen and the AFA being plastered everywhere when doing basic research, it's honestly not hard to imagine why and how that happens. I had the same happen to Me. Only, to a lesser extent. We need to crush McNallen and his legacy. Remove him from Heathen history. Move someone. Literally anyone else to the forefront to replace him.
@@stormbornbjornsson6576 yes! right away, the AFA was like the place to find other people. I heard about it first on Northern Runes Radio. Went to the website and was like oh wow, an official group of people here, I could learn so much. Yeah they were definitely ready for newcomers. This was like 11 years ago.
I personally feel that everyone benefits from following the path of their ancestors, and should try to incorporate those practices in their own spirituality. The gatekeeping and racism however are absolutely fucking unhinged 🤦♀️ Edit: this of course is completely unrelated to ACTUAL closed practices. 😊
I'm pretty sure there's a "chosen people" from the Near East that are a larger and more accurate representation of "folkism" than most Heathens portray "Judah", the son of Jacob... Judah-ism Not to mention "Israel" being the epithet of Jacob And Zionism And the Third Temple Movement... Can folkism be positive? Should folkism be reserved exclusively for Non-europeans? Is folkism only bad if Europeans do it?
Stephen McNallen was connected with Dave Martel, and the whole Asatru Folk Assembly who were a bit dogmatic in a Christian way. Also the main base of the Asatru Folk Assembly is in California which was about the closest to Communism of any state.
