The moment where Eddie keeps asking Amos if he's a hustler, and Amos finally asks "What? wanna quit?" is so brutal; essentially, he's saying "Of course I'm a hustler, but so what, you're on the hook and you can't quit." It would have saved time if Eddie had just given him the money. Nice work.
No, he meant it frankly to Eddie's own game. It was almost offensive, which Whitaker conveyed in multilayered complexity brilliantly. "Why even asking Eddie, would you quit yours, why should I open my cards? Keep the money, this was just great lesson, I can hustle even a hustler" Then Eddie knew and kept playing to see if he could best him at the pool, but Eddie's confidence in his own game has been gone before walking in at the billiards. Even not realizing earlier he was baited and reeled in by an upcoming hustler getting good at his own, was a sign he had gone off touch and focus in his own trade. His asking for advice after was redundant, he recognized the master and however beaten making him impudent, he still wanted to give him the soft kick to his lost pride, to smart him back and take notice that he used a very visible game bait he even exaggerated to test how far/low he could play "dumb but just lucky kid" and he fell for it. Bittersweet losing
Yep, that's the game. It's why I lost $500 on a game. EGO!!! It's what keeps huslters hustling and minnows playing for drinks. I knew I was overmatched. But I thought I could win. Eddie thought he could win. In 1960, he would have. In 1985 he no longer could. That's half of the story. An aging hustler who can no longer hang with the young pool sharks.
I always saw this scene differently. I think Eddie allowed Amos to Hustler him so this was his way of dumping Vince. Remember later in the movie in the green room. Vincent said you used us. Eddie said yes I did.
Although a brief appearance, this scene was Forest’s coming out party. He went toe to toe with a legend and showed some fantastic acting chops in a very memorable scene. He started getting big roles after this.
@@wlouisharris I would always catch him here and there and always come away feeling like I was looking at one of the very finest actors in the world. He’s like Newman, you see him, you say, “Oh good, it’s Paul Newman, and then you disappear into his character. He’s so good the celebrity vanishes, as you’re effortlessly sucked into the character. How he does it is like magic. Poor Sophia Coppola. Brutalized by the critics, I agreed, but when I watched a scene with her and Andy Garcia, she seemed fine. But I was drawn into Andy’s character. She couldn’t do it to me. And I saw it before I saw any reviews. Forrest Whitaker has that gift in spades. Part of what didn’t allow him to get huge overnight is his looks. He’s not a handsome leading man that fits into tons of roles. In The Crying Game, I thought he was 10 out of 10 as the captured English Soldier. A great movie, that “The Scene” may have stole attention from. I thought it was a very high quality picture. When he appears in non lead roles, he’s so good at being the character, he doesn’t rivet my attention. How could he. Idi Amin! GO FORREST!!
His vulnerability act really shows in the “You don’t wanna pay me? Forget it, keep it. I don’t want no bad feelings. A guy loses... I lost, I paid, idk.” Such great acting on both Mr Whitaker and his character. This my favorite scene. Two masters at work. Thank you for sharing! :)
Naw eddie just did what he did in the hustler when he faced fats the first time. He drank and drank and didn't pay attention and he was back to being cocky eddie like he was in the hustler.
"I wanna ask you something. I want you to be real honest with me..Do you think I need to lose some weight?" Classic line... My favorite scene from this movie.
@@operahouse8715 Not really that meaning. It was a low key diss on him, double entendre style. "Giving a person weight" in pool slang means that a person of lower skill will be given an advantage, eg if they pot the 8 they win(instead of the 9). They 'get' weight. What F.W is saying in this scene is that he's carrying too much weight, as in he is stating he's the better player, but in sardonic terms to P.N. He's asking if he should 'give' weight to him since he's so good.
@@MrFooSteven This is my favorite scene in the whole movie and because of what you said, that makes it even better. I love how Forrest instantly dropped the “fool/scientific subject” personality once Paul Newman discovered he was a hustler. Also I think that line about letting Paul Newman off the hook if he didn’t want to pay him was just a way of pissing him off and goading him into playing another game. And then the final line about “losing weight” was basically a big “I’m a hell of a lot better than you.”
I like how at the end Amos unscrews his cue and leaves with it resting on his shoulder. Evidence that he is a hustler since the absence of a pool cue case helps him fly under the radar.
Yup. Complete opposite of Vince when he brought the Balabushka into that one pool hall still in its case and even called it “Doom”. Then he was swinging it around like a crazy man and doing all kinds of pro style shots. Dummy scared away the big money.
@@kurtkensson2059 It wasn’t? That’s pretty weak. I honestly don’t know that much about cues. I just know that Balabushkas are good cues, but I wouldn’t be able to spot an obvious fake or one they swapped a different cue in for.
@@Whoopdido777 It was a Joss cue. Very good cue, not nearly as rare, or expensive as a genuine Balabushka. The Adam Cue company has a series of cues with the Balabushka name, but cues actually made by George Balabushka himself generally cost 5 to 6 figures.
Forest Whitaker has done his fair share of classic and iconic roles and films. Although he is famous and considered a great actor i still feel he is underappreciated.
This was the film that brought Forrest Whitaker to my attention. And fortunately for him, he was given the best line in the movie. He held his own with Newman too. Nice work.
Sadly, the fact that this has one of the worst blu ray video transfers of all time is not going to help The Color of Money acquire new fans. Just quickly look up some reviews on google. It is embarrassing how this film looks on blu ray and still makes me sick (I own it and the reviews are unfortunately right). Hopefully it will go through a remastering at some point, because the film itself I strongly enjoy, but the blu ray is a travesty.
@@Cooplander Is it worse than the old dvd? I have the dvd but never upgraded to Blu-ray. This would be a great movie for 4K just to upgrade the audio quality.
I Grew up watching this movie! 😇😇😇😘 I loved the Forest hustles Paul Newman in this scene! Epic😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Who would have thought that he would become the LAST KING OF SCOTLAND! And subsequently also an Academy Award winner! Awsum!
He breaks " character" when he gets asked if hes a hustler. He says " what! ...you wanna quit? " Which is next level because he's playing for money and Newmans playing for pride. He pricks his pride to clean him out. The hustles over it's about who's better. Newman loses and cleans up his act. Whittaker is next level, what a cast and movie!
Eddy asks Amos several times whether Amos is a hustler, at the point where it is completely obvious that he is. So Amos' question, "Do you think I need to lose some weight," is just a way of saying it's obvious he needs to lose some weight, just as it should have been obvious to Eddy that he was a hustler.
@@paultrow7108 It also points out to Eddie that he is overweight on purpose. It's part of the hustle to make people underestimate him and allow him to play his role even better. But also the double meaning in pool terms, 'weight' is when someone that is better than another player gives them an advantage, because they're less of a player. So him also asking Eddie if he thinks he should 'lose some weight', is basically his way of asking if he should have went easier on him. In no uncertain terms telling Eddie how much better he is than him. Both at pool, and in this case at hustling.
It's a great line to drop to someone to that you already know despises you. Catches them off guard, puts them in two minds as to how they're seen by you, to be asked something that should be a sensitive subject to you. Then just break out while they're still trying to come up with an answer.. LOVE this scene
I loved that line in the movie. The way I saw it Amos could have used his weight as a kind of hustle. Im just a fat kid how good can Amos play when he is fat and lazy. Essentially at the end he is saying to Newman...........it doesnt matter, should i lose some weight, how much advantage do I need to beat you, really...........I dont need this advantage "what do you think".
Arguably the best scene from the movie, despite errors. As the camera pans from Cruise and Mastrantonio walking up the steps over to Newman and Whitaker at the table, you see a white cue ball way over to the side. Whitaker is hitting and pocketing the 1 ball. The cue ball appears to be in place for a kick shot into a 6-9 combination that Newman makes, but the 3 ball is still on the table! Lots of others peppered throughout the film, which makes it fun to dissect.
Weight in pool refers to a handicap. For example: a superior player may give a lesser player odds of 7 games to 4. Of course, if a hustler can get weight from his mark, his chances of winning are all the better.
I always thought he was showing off on how he hustles. With the line “do you think I need to lose some weight”, was showing Eddie or getting Eddie to recall the way he (Whitaker) used light banter, and conversation to hustle people. To show how he plays like an innocent/meek/genuine/naive greenhorn as a skill to hustle. You may be right though to correlate weight to a spot, I’ve never thought of it that way!
Notice at 3:40 when the final ball drops Forest Whitakers voice and entire demenor changes...as there is no longer a need for the facade. Amazing Acting!
notice how eddie was counting the money out before the ball dropped meaning he had no issue handing the money over but his real issue was trying to get amos to break his hustle, thus eddie asking him numerous times "you a hustler" and continues ot play Amos even after asking these question, i think he was trying to prove a point/ show a lesson to the vince character since Eddie was in the hall for a while but wasnt hustled earlier
Notice how much Eddie drinks during this scene, which is an allusion to the first sequence in The Hustler where he drinks himself to defeat against Minnesota Fats. I think that part of what makes the scene meaningful is that Eddie is now the older veteran as Fats was when he played him; however, in contrast to that first sequence in The Hustler, it is the younger sober player (Whitaker) who hustles the older. This is not to suggest that Eddie is supposed to be an alcoholic in either movie. Still, both feature a lot of drinking, and Eddie in The Color of Money obviously has more allegiance to J.T.S. Brown at the beginning of the film than he does pool: a game he (had to give) up years earlier. Even the question "Are you a hustler?" mirrors Gleason's "You think this boy is a hustler?" directed to Big John in The Hustler. There's an interesting dynamic about Felson's ability/inability to recognize his younger self in this film, whether it has to do with Whitaker in this scene or Cruise throughout.
i think its his inability to beleive a hustler would hold his act even when he asked mutli times are you a hustler, i like the part where the older verision cant recognixe his younger verision but Eddie clearly knows he is a hustler before he ask and only continues the game untill forest is done
As he said in the restaurant in his day it was booze. Drinking is part of the hustle to him he acts as if it hinders his performance because at his age he is already expected to be the better player and needs some sort of way to seem possible to beat he is also a liquor salesman so he may be promoting his product a bit too. Forest demonstrates he does not have to adhere to his own past impressions of how the game be played what Eddie really needs is some new eyeglasses and to get with the times. Don't forget what Bert told him about not needing an excuse for losing either.
For me watching that film (Movie) back in 86 Forest Whitaker owned that Pool scene ! His Character exposed the cocky pool players not to ever, and I mean ever, underestimate your opponent ;-)
Regardless of what you make of the hustle, how you read it, or what it might mean...it's possibly the finest one in both films, and that's a heavy crown.
It was an unspoken rule back in Eddie's day ( early 60's and prior) whatever game you were playing for money, pool/poker whatever and were winning that you didn't quit until the other guy did, EVER. It's called a hit-and-run. Nowadays people don't feel like this, especially in casinos and I get it, but those were different times. People got hurt or killed for trying to leave before the other guy who was down gave up. It also would kill any future action from anyone who saw you do it. There are horror stories of 18-48 hour benders of such games (1800s -1950s) where people lost huge life savings at "home games" quite often when they could've just lost a little bit, and the guy winning didn't even want to take it anywhere near that far. Like the winner was ready to quit 12+ hours or more prior; would be dead tired, missing the next day's work and maybe get fired. This is why the "Wanna quit?" line is so powerful. It's a matter of deepest pride for those old schoolers. Asking if Eddie wants mercy basically, from a kid playing by the rules of the past by giving him a chance to win his money back. And it's why Eddie blows up after this, he didn't just lose around 7-800$, he lost his pride by quitting so early with money still in his pocket.
Great scene, well played by both actors. Forrest acting opposite a legend like the late great Paul Newman, must have been an honour for him. Eddy got played by Amos!
Eddie's pointed question: "Are you a hustler" is meant to intimidate Amos out of his twitchy, talky-guy routine. Eddie most likely thinks he can still outplay his younger, brash and overweight opponent. Amos does not answer Eddie's question until the very end of the match when he finally says the famous line: "Do you think I need to lose some weight?" The answer to both questions is of course: 'Yes'. The reason Amos answers him in this fashion is because a good hustler will always remain in character. Losing the match finally enables Fast Eddie to relinquish his own hustle and become a serious pool player again.
Mr Lazarus---sounds like you've got more than a passing knowledge on the art of hustling (personal experience, perhaps LOL?!!) Exceptional analysis, sir!!
Really? You REALLY think that you know Fast Eddie--you didn’t even see the first movie “The Hustler.” You’re so full of BS! So you’re smarter than Martin Scorsese? HA!!
It reminds me as a kid in the southend of Albany playing pool against better older players. Who didn't let me hang around or play for nothing.They we're all above my skill for a couple of years and sent me home with no money bruised pride and even broken nose bleeding for quite awhile.You only get better when your compitions great.
I hate when people post these videos and then leave out the real ending where he gets pissed at himself for being hustled. That part really made this whole scene stand out. From beginning to end.
bluejet Really? Dude you serious? It was about BOTH actors. If it wasn't, than why have Paul Newman's character display the emotion that he displayed after he got "hustled", he's supposed to be the hustler. That's why he kept repeating, "you a hustler Amos?"
Look at the title the uploader used. It CLEARLY says forest whitaker, meaning he uploaded the video just to show his character. If it was about both of them, he would have added paul newman's name. It's not rocket science.
bluejet Then that's all the more reason to show the scene all the way thru then. The reaction of Paul Newman's character as he was embarrassed by Forrest Whitacker's actions. The end result.
Forest Whitaker has emerged as one of America's finest actors. He has won an Academy Award, Golden Globe Award, British Academy Award, and two Screen Actors Guild Awards. Here in 1986 his career was just starting to roll.
Man Forest stole the show, and that line, “be honest do you think I need to lose weight”! lol. Classic. Fast Eddie bit hard on this hustle and went down hard too.
my understanding is that even after this movie, Mr. Whittaker stop acting for awhile, went back to acting school to sharpen his skills.... because he thought that he needed more to be on the screen.
Come on people, the line "do I need to lose some weight" is the finish line to the hustle race. It's similar to a signature by a great artist. It's a... I got you moment.
That’s right, he’s straight up needling him with that line.. It has nothing to do with a handicap.. It a cold blooded line too, which is why I get a little ticked as well when people read too much into it.. Great scene, two great actors..
I remember watching the last part where he's counting out all the money, the first time I watched it I was certain he had won, and was counting all his winning, I was like yeah, Eddie kicked that kid's ass pretty good and showed him who the boss was.. Then it's finally revealed that he actually lost, and he's counting what he owes, and he throws the money down... Up to this point throughout the first and second film Eddie was a legend; he was completely untouchable, but in that scene I remember falling down with him as we realize he lost, I felt as bad as he did. Even legends fall... Such an amazingly well done scene.
Absolutely agree, the worst part about this for me is that Amos will always have that story to tell now of how he hustled “fast eddie felson” one of the greatest pool players of all time and took him to the cleaners! And you know what, it wasn’t really that bigger deal! I think that’s why Eddie is so overwhelmed with embarrassment at the end, not just because of how he got hustled by a random guy and what he missed but what this would mean out on the streets.
That line about losing weight means more than you think. In the pool world 'giving up weight' means giving a spot, like a handicap. For example if I was playing someone more talented than me, he might say, 'I don't want to play him, I would have to give up too much weight for it to be a competitive game.' or 'I could give him all the weight in the world, and he still couldn't beat me.' Essentially he is asking Eddie, 'Be honest, do you think I'm too good?'
That gives a whole new perspective in this scene and drives the humiliation of Eddie to the roof. I always thought he was talking about his bodyweight since he was kinda chubby
@@realityanalyst Honestly, I missed it the first time around and I have been around pool my whole life(49 years). It is also his way of telling Eddie, that his whole backstory about having menial jobs and playing the idiot was an act. He has only had one job...hustling pool. He wants Eddie to go home thinking, 'was he just talking about his body weight?' But Eddie knows a hustler when he sees one, he just saw this one too late. Whitaker's character can't help himself he wants Eddie to know he was hustled, but he is having too much fun playing the pretend fool. That is why he said the word 'weight' and not something like, 'lose a few pounds', 'get in better shape' etc. At 2:34 when Eddie asks, 'are you hustler,Amos?' Whitaker looks down and breaks the 'pretend fool' role for just a minute before looking back at Eddie. He was just loving hustling Eddie, and Eddie knew it....and still kept going.
This scene echos a scene in "The Hustler" where Eddie walks into a local pool hall and proceeds to find his way to the local "hustler"/pool shark, just like this scene is with Amos. In "The Hustler" , after Eddie dumps on the local hustler/pool shark and makes the local hustler believe that Eddie is no match for him, the hustler asks Eddie "do you want to quit, Friend?" which is similar to when Amos ask Eddie that same thing. Except that in "The Hustler" Eddie is able to beat the local hustler/pool shark after he asks him the insulting question Eddie answer "just for that im going to beat you flat kid" Eddie proceeds to win a number of rack in a row showing his true level of skill is much better than the local hustler and that in fact Eddie had been going to Hustle them(local pool shark/stakers) all along but ends up getting his thumbs broken by the skaters that back the local hustler/pool shark for being so cocky about it. But in "The color of money" either Eddie inst skilled enough to beat the local hustler/pool shark anymore or doesn't want to beat the hustler "Amos" since he clearly knows that Amos is hiding his skill but still partakes in the game even after asking Amos twice "are you a hustle" and when the bets are double or nothing meaning that Amos cant win the next game without looking like the player he was earlier but must still win in a believable fashion if the hustle is to work without raising suspicion . and in the ending of this scene Eddie talks to Tom/Vince and in the manner of that he had just taught his final lesson and if Vince didnt get it then he never would ,and Eddies leaves them with the line "i just showed you my ass in there" and then departing company of Vince and his girlfriend there is just too many connection between those 2 scenes that lead me to believe that you can interpret this scene in a entirely different fashion.
Two things : 1) I've always felt that Eddie lost on purpose to make himself seem over the hill to Vincent heading into Atlantic City. 2) It's amazing how many people don't get that "Do I need to lose some weight?" refers to his pockets being heavier from the extra cash. It wasn't meant to be literal about his weight problem. 😂
What an amazing scene. The Hustler picks up the hustle and decides to put himself to the test..only to find out he's not what he thought he was anymore...Finding out he's old, tired, blind, and "his legend" doesn't count shit if it's not proven on the table.....HUGE, HUGE scene...
Best hustling scene in any pool movie. Best hustler in any pool movie (OK, maybe he TIES with Paul Newman, but Mr. Whitaker didn't get as much screen time.)
Most people don’t know unless you’ve gambled playing pool for awhile, but when he asks him “do you think I need to lose some weight”, it has a double meaning. He wasn’t talking about his weight. “Weight” is a term used in pool gambling that means handicapping. He was saying did he need to handicap Newman. Aka that Newman wasn’t on his level. It was a brutal dig at him.
I just read online, when I was looking for an explanation on the end of the movie, that this scene with Amos that the old guy that Eddie was playing and beat was also in on the hustle with Amos, setting Eddie up letting him win and buying him drinks.
great scene,forest whitaker looks like a pool shark,he plays this so well,i think this was his first role if not one of his early roles,and paul newman getting his ass kicked,which you feel for him cause even eddie the oldest hustler in this film should not have fell for it,i love paul newman and his magic acting,i love the way he says fuck you kid.well amos should show some respect for eddie.
I actually spoke to the man today, who taught him how to play pool, for the movie. Little place called Bonnies, in Willow Spings, IL. He told a story about how the director liked him, but he didn't know anything about the game. He ended the story, with, "You can say, that Forest Whitaker, got his acting start on table number two" It was his debut.
I've watched this movie many times over the years. More and more I believe this scene isn't so much about Amos hustling Eddie, as much as it is Eddie Hustling Vincent. Without losing to Amos in this scene, Eddie wouldn't have told Vincent and the girl to piss off and go on their own. Splitting their paths to meet again in the back room at the end. I'm not so sure this scene is really about Amos beating Eddie, rather it's Eddie letting Vincent watch Amos beat Eddie.
I've read a lot of the comments here and respect a lot of them regarding what actually happened in this scene. It's my opinion that Eddie was overly enjoying what he had accomplished with Vincent thusfar and was feeling kind if invinsible. He started having some drinks and let his guard down fir a while.....relaxing and enjoying his accomplishments and "wisdom". He was in a place of complete vulnerability and Amos took complete advantage of him because he is a hustler and hustlers are very intelligent about human mental and emotional weakness. Eddie questioned what was happening and tried to get his confidence back desperately hoping to beat Amos and return to his Utopia. It was too late by then because the very things that made Eddie what he was and made him successful were the very things he was now neglecting in this moment. His confidence was gone just like that because he got lazy and prideful. The human mind is a very fickle thing and humility is a strength and a virtue that must never be underestimated.
A man named Louie Roberts otherwise known as St Louie Louie make a cameo appearance in this movie. I'm convinced a movie about his life would be a big hit. It would take a great actor to play the lead but it is a compelling story.
"Weight" is a "spot" or a advantage given to someone in a match in order to make it an even gamble. If I play someone better then me in a set of 9-ball and they "spot" me 2 games in a race to 9 then that means I need to win 7 games to win the match and my opponent needs to win 9. The two game "spot" that I am getting from that person is known as "weight". In effect a better player in a match needs to give up "weight" against a weaker opponent in order to make the match a fair gamble.
This assumption is spot on. Forest was just adding insult to injury and truly letting Eddie know he was the better player by far. Eddie already knew by that time he was getting hustled. But he had too much pride to just let it go and quit. Credits go to Forest as he never broke character, unlike Eddie, did in the original movie "The Hustler" when he was the young punk playing in that pool room when he got his fingers broken.
As a kid when Forest said losing weight... I really thought he was on that... I said to myself yeah it wouldn't hurt for you to lose a couple pounds.. Lol... Year's later it was hustle talk... LOL
The brilliance of this scene is under the damn radar. What does a person's appearance have anything to do with whether or not they can play pool? Absolutely nothing. Eddie underestimated Amos based solely on appearance and he paid a big price: the money taken out of his wallet and the wound dealt to his pride that will last throughout the movie.
