Moabzy's tune (That's your "unknown creator" - he's actually a very well known creator haha - I know because I yeeted those numbers from him and just made minor adjustments...) is definitely the better out of the two. That soft suspension + soft bump damping makes a world of difference in making the car more planted (which is what will let you get consistent laptimes) in spite of other weird stuff we may be doing with ARB's and Geo. It got me experimenting with other cars and "as soft as you can get" is definitely the way to go for GT series cars. I've had to make "specialist" tunes to deal with tracks with a lot of compression like Spa, but the soft setups work everywhere else for now. Great comparison video. Defo some weird stuff going on in tuning right now. PS: Going with the softer suspension/damping setup with understeer tendencies, and then inducing oversteer through geo seems less overkill with the oversteer, than going stiff on suspension and then trying to get the car settled through geo.
Also, just a fun fact since I see you are a fellow cockpit enjoyer - If you set the final drive to 5.00+ and then reconstruct the gearing, you can induce the transmission whine in the car (something we should be hearing naturally since GT3's have those straight cut gears). I have NO IDEA why this is linked to the final drive setting in the game, but that's how it is.
I've personally seen absolute wild tunes and settings as the top players on rivals are testing different tunes. The glitch happened on a couple of tunes I had. On the Audi RS3 I saw 5.0/5.0 toe out on one tune. Then I saw 0.1/0.1 toe out and -50/150 on the anti-geo for Suzuka from the same person. It's really wild what's managing to still work when tweaking the settings to extremes. Seems pretty certain that unless a fix come out, we'll end up with wildly unrealistic meta tunes in 2-3 months or so
Great video as always, really great approch to the game, nice to watch ! Thanks for the dedication and the hard work ! We doesn't deserve a guy like you. 👏
Great video, still very much learning the tuning in this game myself. But yes i very much enjoy having a loose rear as i find it lends itself well to being fast on any track i throw at it without needing to change anything. Just a quick clarification the 1:20.5 was actually a 1:20.8 that was done in a public race (not quali/practice). Time was up 3 tenths on splits but tyres wore out on the final 2 corners 😭
Awesome to hear from you and get confirmation. I assumed the time was real, because I was in a race with SVR Spector where he did a 1:20.9 qualification there. I do find that I am faster at the end of a long practice or late in race on softs, than I am in Freeplay at 100 rubber. Usually 1-3 tenths faster. I have started to believe that dynamic rubber actually goes beyond 100 for this reason. I am not sure I want to do effectively 30-60 laps using the pits instead of resetting to prove it though. I may be crazy enough to do it one day.
@@Kaylos29 Yeah it definitely seems it can go over 100 in practice if you have a lobby with enough people running the track. Not sure if the races ever reach that point, but wouldn't surprise me if they do
@@nalak. I think they do. My fastest lap ever in the Ford GT at Road america was a 2:03.9 on lap 6 chasing some hard tire strat guys. No draft, just clean road. I've never managed to do it in testing. I've gotten close to breaking into the 2:03s, but either the race track had over 100 rubber, or that was one special lap. I'm not that special, so I suspect the former.
@@Kaylos29 I do a lot of rivals and I definitely can tell you the multiplayer track rubber is different, I will share a quick example I did 1.13.6 on Hakone GP S800 lobby during the race on mediums... I did rivals that same track same car using actual soft tires and my best time is 1:14:0 which is in the top 20 but again my point is there is a lot more rubber in the hoppers compared to rivals or free play
@@Gwayneeee Rivals is set to 50 rubber, which is signicantly slower than 100. I use testing under freeplay to set rubber automatically to 100. I had assumed that meant 100%, but I don't anymore. I'm quite confident that rubber can go over 100 in multiplayer, in practice and race. Hard to replaicate that in freeplay, because you don't have 20+ cars going around the track at once. I have to do 20 laps to set down the rubber just one lap in a race does.
I used to tune a lot in FM4. I raced in leauges and tuned for our teams, and tuned lobby cars for my storefront. I had a lot more free time back then. It was like a second job 😂 I got to a point where basically all my RWD cars in A class upwards had the roll bars set at 40F/1R, and the diff was set insanely low, like 10 accel/0 decel. Then I would tune out the understeer with alignment, springs, and damping. It shouldn't have worked. It was crazy extreme Forza tuning, but it did work. The cars could go incredibly aggressive on turn in, and the rear end would never complain about it so could get on the power very early. I haven't really gone too deep on tuning since then. I have just been slapping on a basic tune, 40/40 roll bars max/min aero, quick mess around with springs so it feels okay and then just try to drive around any issues that might pop up in a corner. It's interesting seeing these more extreme tunes, I just kind of presumed they were a thing of the past. I'm definitely going to have to try some more extreme set ups out and see what I can do. Interesting video man.
What I have found on Forza when it comes to tuning is that the Devs got some of the roll centers WAY WRONG, and that it is not necessarily the numbers that matter, but the difference between them. The car will tend to follow the most negative number (IE understeer if rear is more negative, oversteer if front is more negative). What I do after setting ride height and tire pressures, is adjust roll center until I am happy with the response rate, then set the balance to get the car generally how I want it to drive. I do this before I touch sway bars or damping because on some cars, the roll center seems to have been assigned at random, with zero consideration given to reality or how it will drive.
The numbers themselves definitely matter. Car behavior changes drastically in the game with low vs. high roll centers. I'm also curious as to why you say the roll centers are "way wrong". I'm not disagreeing, but I'm wondering what you consider to be "right"
@@Harmonic14 I wouldn't say they "wrong," but they add a ton flexibility to mold the car to your liking and extrat extra performance as you get to understand them. I learned a ton from these two builds and am learning more about how to exploit it from other tunes on Forzaverse, but wouldn't say my personal understanding is quite there yet to get the most out of it that I could. But knowing what I know now, it makes my old tuning and build videos feel way outdated except for those who may be are just learning to tune. To be fair, that was where I was at though at that time. I'm also afraid to apply what I've learned to the Audi R8. Not sure I want to know what I could do with that car now.
Really interesting. I'm finding the overlapping of Anti Roll bars, Dampers (weight transfer) and the Roll Center a little confusing. I'm struggling what exactly each thing does to the car in a corner. (Entry, Mid, Exit) I'm overall rather clued up on other aspects but i'm currently at the stage where it feels three things essentially do the same thing which clearly isn't the case.
There is a lot of overlap. A few of the things I liked about refusing front roll center and reducing the rear roll center was it creates a car that wants to return to stability. So even with a lot of oversteer, you can control it better. I find raising anti-dive useful for reducing the drastic effect of reducing the brake balance. Anti-squat can then be adjusted to get just the right amount of power oversteer and feel in the rear on throttle.
Interesting for sure, I agree with what you said. Just looking at the first set of numbers my initial thoughts were this is real and whoever made this knows what they are doing. I agree it is experimental because no fast person is going to use stock gear in a serious race. I was a little shocked by the roll bars cause I found it didn't work on race cars, but I didn't use the geometry anywhere near what they were doing so I definitely need to give it a try and see how it affects my tuning style. 13 rebound is doable and works well on some tracks, the soft springs I'm sure compensates for it. My initial thoughts on the second set of numbers is they were testing out some kind of Forza app to see how it does and what numbers it gives. I could be wrong on everything but just my 2 cents. Definitely going to try these out in the next couple of days. Thanks for the video.
Yeah, the Nalak tune (the second one) was obviously a personal preference tune. I realized that as soon as I got in it because the nose literally went wherever I pointed it. The problem being if my pointing wasn't correct, it went there, and my FFB wouldn't tell me I went too far. Not a tune for the light of heart, and something I think you would only be usuable by the very best drivers, which obviously I am not quite that.
Nice video, just so u know, you do change things in the suspension settings where u say that u didnt change it between your indy tune and ur general tune! so pay attention wiewers, he do change where he says he did no changes!
I learned recently that weight changes automatically change the suspension settings. So I didn't change it, but I changed the fuel, which automatically adjusted the suspension settings. I didn't realize that was happening when I made this video, so I didn't think to compare it.
@Kaylos29 Thx for the interesting video and your great setups. As you made 3 diffenerent setups. (speed, allround, handling). Could you maybe make a list (or a video, if you think it is interesting for others aswell) about what setup to use on which track? Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya --> Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps --> Eaglerock Speedway --> speed Grand Oak Raceway --> Hakone Circuit --> Homestead-Miami Speedway --> Indianapolis Motor Speedway --> Kyalami Grand Prix Circuit --> Laguna Seca Raceway --> Le Mans - Circuit International de la Sarthe --> Lime Rock Park --> Maple Valley --> Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course --> handling Mugello Circuit --> Nürburgring GP --> Road America --> Silverstone Circuit --> Suzuka Circuit --> allround Virginia International Raceway --> Watkins Glen International Speedway --> Yas Marinas --> Also happy if anyone else can help. thx in advance
That will be a work in progress. You can have two handling tracks requires two different set-up tweeks. For instance, Mid Ohio is a handling circuit, but the handling is all low speed. It will favor stable aero and platform, with quick turning capability. Grand Oak is a high speed handling circuit that will favor high aero, but relatively loose build with slower turn in. So to get the absolute most out of every build is really learning the particulars of each track.
@@Kaylos29 I really apreciate your effort to answer so detailed. thx a lot. I do use your Ohio setup there. On nürburgring, silverstone and yas marina i use the indygp one. i really like the low aero on the indy tune, because otherwise its nearly impossible to keep up with the audis. thx fo sharing and keep it up best regards
I do plan to get around to the Touring Cars eventually. I need to if I want to be competitive there. I am not a fan of tuning FWD cars, so I have still have a bit to learn there.
I'm used to Horizon so Motorsport is so different I find it hard to make any car stable. Maybe they made the tuning too drastic? I wish it had a "Tune for me" mode so I could just drive! I don't want to be a mechanic. I want to race.
Jonathan, many thanks for your great videos. It cuts right to the work without all the fancy but distracting glitzy editing of others. Much more usefull info from you. I want to ask: can you make a video, or give some help about wet weather setups, and wet weather tyres? Logic suggest it needs less camber, but for the life of me i cant figure out what works better. On a porsche 911 gt3 rs i even found better grio with 2.2 front 1.6 rear camber. Also, does it need lesser arbs? Or doesn wet weather not make any difference at all beside the spec wet weather tyre? Thank you.
I haven't fully tested tuning changes for wet weather. I don't think it makes much of a difference in this game. TC can definitely help getting on the gas, but's not necessarily faster if you are really good at throttle control. And depending on the car, TC can really hurt your launch, even in the rain. I don't use ABS, so I'll have to test that.
The changeable weather open serie multiplayer races are big fun because of more variation. I had some races starting on sporttyres bcs I didnt have the credits vs some top levelled up guys on spec wet weather. It started with rain but got dry in 2 laps. They all had to pit for slicks. I stayed out bcs the sporttyre can deal with both and won. (being open serie its usually only a 4 or 5 lap race anyway:) But in rainy conditions the brake distance is noticably longer so less camber helps a lot, also in traction. I love that trade off gamble and now create dry, changeable and full wet setups. @@Kaylos29
Im half way through the video atm and I wanted to ask are you trying these both with and without sport assistances for traction and stability? Could be worth comparing them as i feel nalaks loose tune might be easier to control with sport assistance. What difference that would make to lap times though 🤔.
I don't use any assists. I would probably use TC sport if it didn't kill launches at the start of races. Going from pole to 10th can really kill a race. I generally avoid STM as it tends to do weird things when you are purposely push the limit to create slip angle in corners.
i know tried for nearly an hour to get the delta in the upper middle of the screen working for me. i cant find any option that works. delta bar = off/time /segment does nothing for me can anyone help?
It's an overlay through simhub by sappytron. It only works on PC and it doesn't mod the game. It only takes data the games outputs and overlays on the screen. I have a links in the description to it and a link to HokiHoshi's guide on how to install and set it up.
I have a valid question hopefully someone can answer Underfree play quick event, i set practice/free session, so under these setting, i choose soft tyres for my qualy runs, but my times are much slower than my soft run times in multiplayer session. Is the free session always comes in hard tyres?
I believe 100 rubber can go over 100. Also in freeplay, make sure you have Dynamic rubber on, or it resets to 50. Either way, Multiplayer times will be faster in my experience with low fuel, softs, and late in a practice or race.
@@Kaylos29 alright, thanks for the heads up. I was depressed that i was not able to get a faster laptime with the Audi in Yas Marina. In multiplayer qualifying, having 3laps fuel and soft tyres, i was able to do 1:55. But under the same setup in freeplay/test Drive i cant go faster than 1:56 no matter how hard i try. Also a little heads up, your tune works like a charm in a controller given he/she does NOT change any value under 'Suspension Geometry'
@@EESHANDACH That's good to know. I was getting 1:55.5 in rivals, got a 1:54.6 in the Ford GT. Rubber and fuel make a pretty big difference. And in practice under qualifying, it goes over 100 I am sure. Yas specifically is easier to go on curbs when all the rubber is down.
How do you figure out if your pace is good enough on a particular track before moving to the tuning phase? I’ve been working on Spa, for example, and can run a low 2:21 if I’m really feeling it, but I still encounter people in my lobbies who can pull 2+ seconds off that time.
If you are running a 2:21 on stock car, then tuning can definitely help. But it can depend on what the car needs. Most have a lot of understeer, but some like the Audi, Acura, and Ferrari can be very twitchy and regularly want to kill you. A good tune might help get control of the cast so you feel safe pushing it, or may free up rotation.
For future reference on other tracks, how should I determine when my lap times are solid? The variance between lobbies makes establishing a target time difficult based on my races. Also thanks for all the great content on this game, channels like yours about niche topics like this make RU-vid great.
@@bovisstercus9891 yeah, it can be difficult to figure out exactly how you stack up right now, especially without a spec rivals. Focus more on what you know you can do and improving that. I have considered hitting rivals in R class with spec cars to give people who add me on Xbox a spec target to eureka towards. But that is a long term project.
@@bovisstercus9891 Sadly i already ruined my ability to do it for Road America, as I did an actual 900 PI car ASton Martin Vulcan run there that I could never match on a Forza GT Spec car. I don't think I have done that at any of the other tracks yet.
As an xbox player using a controller, I've found the best tuning strat, for me, is to not do anything, adapt my driving to the car, and accept that im going to finish behind the PC cultists who plug in their thrustmaster to play Forza because they aren't skilled enough to play a sim, but still want to "feel" like they are winning in a sim.
Which isn't a good source. A lot of people are playing on Xbox console, and a lot of PC players are playing through game pass, and some like me night it through the Xbox store so we could play on PC or console. Steam also had some serious issues at the start that definitely hurt numbers. It's definitely not dead though, or my small inconsequential channel wouldn't be getting any attention at all.
your content is not bad but you talk to much if you make your videos more campact with only the most inportant you view will go higher for sure. 27 mins blq blq blq .. actual infromation is about 5 mins ..
I wish there was a proper racing game that has no tuning at all. If there is no tuning and all the cars are pre set, if someone beats you by 3 seconds, they are better than you. If that happens in Forza, likely they just have a better tune. It takes the fun out of the gameplay. It requires quite a bit of time to tune and test. I just wanna hit the track and race with a competitive car without having to tune.
yeah i thought about it after i wrote it tbh for the fine adjustments i turn my dpi down on the mouse button and click on the bar elsewhere n drag it to the point i want then just press the dpi button again @@Kaylos29
I feel like my brother and I raced against you a few nights ago. You had a Steelers design on your car, maybe? We are Seahawks fans so we really wanted to beat you and...we did not. haha. Your videos are really good. Keep these coming! Cheers!
Hey Jon, this is Matt B., friend from RHS 😁. I subscribed for support and watch your videos and give you the 👍, the game looks awesome. I just wish I understood anything you're talking about 😂. I have no idea about the technical stuff. Great video though. 📹
I feel like there’s got to be some optimization/exploit to be found with screwing with the suspension geometry. You can put the anti-dive at 100% and actually see the front of the car raise up during braking… 😵💫. I also tried to test the roll center adjustment versus ride height. I found that if the roll center adjustment was lower than my ride height, the car would get all jittery on track… that affect would be more pronounced as I lowered the roll center beyond the ride height adjustment…
It can do some funky things, so it's always good to test the limits, but also see what simple small step adjustments do. That is how I used raising the front roll center to stablize the Audi, and how I actually got the KTM to rotate in corners. I did it slowly, but I would do one big adjustment first to see if the effect was something I was going for.
