Orks are very powerful when played this way right now. Im having very good luck with 6 Trukks, Squighog Boyz, and Warbosses. Stormboyz are great for secondary, and grots draw way more than 40 pts of attention every game.
For Sean's list, 20x Boyz can have 2 leaders if one is a Warboss, so that unit can have both the Warboss with Follow Me Ladz and the Nob with Waaagh banner for an extra Waaagh for all 22 models in that unit. Fits nicely in the Battlewagon.
@auspextactics I placed 9th at the Gem City GT with Orks and I got to chat with Brad Chester for about an hour. Following that below I have an list theorizing what might be a stronger overall army compared to what he and I took especially given how Oaths changes will incentivize a lot more vehicles. Beast boss with follow me lads Badrukk Mozrog NoSS with Headwhoppas Killchoppa 2x warboss 1x10 Beast Snagga Boyz 3x trukk 1x10 flash gitz 2x Gretchin 2x10 Nobz 1x6 Squighogs 3x5 storm boyz
Squighogs don't reroll charges, but they get to ignore any modifiers to any of their movement. The Beastboss on Squigosaur gives a reroll charge aura though.
I feel like people are really overestimating the representation of beast snaggas in these lists. Take away Beastbosses, squighogs, and BSBs and outside of the odd character you're seeing boyz, nobz, gretchin, warbosses, meganobz, stormboyz, trukks, and battlewagons, all very classic ork units. It's funny seeing people say "I don't want beast snaggas, give me speedwaaagh!" Since they don't seem to realise speedwaaagh is to classic players what beast snaggas is to them. Point for point regular boyz are still better than BSBs, you only really take BSBs to protect Beastbosses. I'd say overall other than transports, nobz, meganobz, and flash gitz are what's really making the impact in these lists.
Painful to see win percentage this high based on so few datasheets while a lot of cool choices collect dust on the shelves. GW really needs to stop thinking of orks as a one dimensional melee rush army, even if it's one of the main themes it shouldn't be the only list viable.
Isn't that their whole point? They were the prime melee army before world eaters became the epitome, but just because they literally have nothing else.
With their win rate, they are going to receive nerfs. And any buffs to shooting will be trade off with nerfs to melee. I am not sure why you would like that trade off.
@@warlordwossman5722 For nothing? To sell more miniatures? Why do you ask me, when I am not the one who took that decision? I am believer that variety for variety sake is detrimental to most games. I prefer quality over quantity, and I make the variety come from my stylistic choices. For example, if squigs and motorcycles are doing exactly the same job and fullfill the same role within the army, why do you need two data sheets? Just have a single datasheet and let players fluff their idea of their army with either squigs, motorcycles, or both. But of course that is not how GW or 40k works. What I am saying is, if you are trying to play Orks as a tactical shooting army, you probably would enjoy playing Tau more. The flavour of Orks will always be melee oriented, that is their whole point.
Orks are not just a melee army. They are one of the oldest, with lots of different units and tactics. The current detachment rule is the Goff one. That's the primarily CC focused clan. We can expect more clans and more variety when the Dex hits the shelves. Oh and by the way. At the beginning, Orks were basically a shooty army ;)
I really think this is a consequence of the meta we find ourselves in. There are plenty of things that can deal with orks but they are not run. Necron particle shredders and horrifying, Aggressors on their own are tough but throw in an biologis in gladius and good luck. Lethal hits aura for vehicles. Obscene levels of firepower from Tau, Eldar, and Votan. Long story short folks just aren't teching to deal with orks or even large model counts (tyranids), hopefully players start to adapt and we see the win rate drop so GW gets it out of their head to nerf orks where they don't deserve to be. TLDR: I think the meta just favors orks as they're bringing large numbers when a lot of folks are teching into anti-vehicle. Most armies have answers for the orks but aren't running them to deal with other threats. Other armies should be buffed, don't nerf my boyz.
Death Guard. More people will be running Death Guard to deal with Orks and Sisters. Mortarion + PBC's is very deadly right now and very tanky. The new auras in addition to the minus 1T stacks well against ork hordes.
I’ve found that certain flavors of eldar, tau, and csm do very well against orks and that’s what’s keeping us from winning most events even though we place very well. Those are the other top armies and actually have enough to deal with us
Most armies are set up to deal with shooting and vehicle spam. If melee lists increase in popularity, cheap screening units will see more play. Orks are strong not because of killing power or survivability, but insane scoring. Bit worried that GW looks at these numbers and nerfs Ork killing power, or their already poor durability, when really it's crazy scoring shenanigans with Stormboyz/Trukks/Gretchin and a swarm of Boyz that is doing the heavy lifting.
Squighog boyz are nice because they are mounted and don’t have any Anti-Rules at the moment. And in a game I played recently I played Gigantuan-Squigoth with Flashgitz and Tsnkbustas was quite fun. Spacemaries killed it turn one.
1st list had the meganobz with twinkill sawz to fish for dev wounds on Waaaagh! Its a weird list and I replaced the weirdboy with a mek to keep the wagon alive
I think one of the main reasons orks are doing better is that custodes aren't, their fight first strategem was just a hard counter to orks so it's good that can't be used for free now.
Wow I got into Orks in 9th and totally loved the customization options and details and klans etc. Now it feels like GW takes every customization option away.
In Sean’s list, I feel like the Battlewagon was used to transport the unit of Ghazgkull and Mega Nobz. It would’nt make sense to give up firing deck with ‘Ard Case with 20 boyz in it. The melee squad in the wagon with Toughness 12/ 16 Wounds could then be used as a fast and secure way to get to high priority targets for a deadly 2nd round Waaaaagh!
I love my orks, but most of these lists are so boring. Where’s the Morkanaugants, mek gunz, shokk jump dragsta and stompas? That what I like when I signed up to be an ork player is just the stupid fun toys they have.
Indeed the change from 8th to 9th was heartbreaking. Orks lost chinorks, shuntas, mega-zappas, supa-skorchas, lifta-droppas, battle fortresses, etc. Before that looted vehicles and the original ork buggies were axed. Now in 10th we've seen a tremendous drop in options: all nob shootas are now kombi-weaons that are the EXACT same profile as imperial despite being half as effective, loss of melee gear like power stabbas, auras were consolidated to single units so now I'm running a very unorky 3 warbosses in lists, new boyz kit doesn't come with enough bits for all choppas, etc. GW has to give us back all those really cool vehicle options and bring the surviving ork shooting like lootas and tankbustas back into relevance. If we got a mek focused release wave for the normal orks that was just upgrade sprues for vehicles and better rules for our shooting units I think we see more fun lists.
Yeah, I started Orks in 2nd and compared to that saying they are a shadow of their former selves seems generous. Even recent editions had some semblance of that original character, but now it's all gone.
because they dont need to sell you on the cool models you buy because they are cool and you dont know better. i have Kans collecting dust since 5th ed for that reason. I wanted a Kans army or all walkers and it's never truly been worthwhile
I don't mean to throw shade at anyone with a different preference to mine, if you like the units I don't, well as long as you're enjoying yourself, good on ya. That said: I don't like the beasts, they just don't appeal to me. I recently got back into this after a lot of years off, my Imperial Guard army was from 4th edition, oh boy a lot has changed. Anyways, I decided to mix it up and roll with Orks this time, and unlike my IG who kept their distance, I wanted to get right in my opponents' faces this time. That, combined with my love of Mad Max movies, (except...the bad one...hate me if you need to), brought me to a buggies and bikes play style which I'm calling Mad Meks. I absolutely LOVE the look of my models, but when it comes to winning matches I'm not doing so hot. By far most of that is still on me and my choices in game, and I'm working on that, but seeing so few of my models represented in these tournament winning lists also explains a lot. I'm not asking for any else to get torn down, I ain't about that, but if a unit can be played, it should be playable. The more varied the lists, the more fun this will be.
I can see how these lists are performing well in the current game state, but I've been playing Orks a lot lately and they just feel so bland and uninteresting (as does 10th as a whole, tbh).
Orks is my primary and while I absolutely love green tide lists I wish there were other viable options that were both fun and flavorful. More will come with the codex but in general a lot of the fun orky weapons were eliminated from 8th to 9th and that's what really took away a lot of the flavor. Supa skorchas, lifta droppas, battle fortesses, Shunta's, chinorks, rattler kannons, and the list goes on were all AMAZINGLY fun options to use. It really brought the flavor of using orks to life. GW needs to just release some new upgrade sprues to bring back those weapon options, as it was all wargear, and maybe do some looted vehicles kind of like brood brothers. So much conversion potential wasted without them.
I play White Scars as my main. In 9th I loved their special rules and how well it made them feel like White Scars. Maybe they weren't strong, but they felt mine. Now in 10th they're just generic Space Marines.
@@InsongWhang yeah, this is pretty much one of my biggest gripes with 10th, the detachment system instead of subfactions. I played Snakebites. Never the strongest choice, but they always felt like Snakebites. No matter what I took, it was that little bit tougher than other Orks. Not any more. Despite what GW says about getting detachments equivalent to old subfactions, if that actually happens I'll eat my hat. What will happen is we'll get a detachment for beast snagga units - but that's not my army. I have a few, but my army dates back to 6th before snaggas existed, and before all the normal boyz, the nobz, the vehicles running on squig dung instead of fuel, they were all snakebites and that was represented. The current derachment system has nothing to do with flavour and representing it on the tabletop regardless of unit choice. It's all about spamming in to one flanderised trope, and then buffing those units even further while everything else gets left out.
The fact that it is not only possible, but actually viable to take what is essentially 4 warbosses in a 2000pt list is disgusting and an absolute travesty. Its "Im da biggest so IM the boss" not "Oh, the 4 of us are about the same size so I guess we should form a quadrumvir"
@icklemoo True 👍 I'd say 40 points is fair for a killa kan (meganobz are 30 and they have 1 more armour save, but has worse BS and D2 S9 Klaw instead of D3 S8) Currently hogs are cheaper than kans with more T and a FNP save and faster, with one less armour, but aren't as shooty
That happened to me so many times that i stopped playing. LOL. I still have a biker army with Da Rippa that got nerfed 2 days after i finished buying all the pieces. GW is frustrating.
I love orks man and i love the beastsnaggas and melee playstyle goff pressure list type play. But man do i wish there were more ways to play. Im newer to the hobby and picked up the army but i really want most of the index models to actually do something. Especially for those people who like playing something else to be different. I think thats where most of the hate comes from. GW took away all of our fun options away kind of and forced people to play one style and thats far from fun even if i like this playstyle.
While I personally don’t like the Beastsnaggaz/Goff lists at all, I do very much appreciate your support for alternative playstyles. I run an army that consists mainly of Deff Dredds, Kans, vehicles, and elite units and it’s absolutely unplayable in 10th Ed. I love the idea of a tech-happy, mechanized shock-force. But GW has decided that this is not the proper way to play Orks.
@The-Yellow-Man yea I believe my way oh play and your way of play can coexist in the same army just fine. I don't read the books or anything but orkz have so many Clans that there is no excuse why we can't have everything. I like the Snakebitez though I love the old ork backwards ways and I like the image of them riding on beasts up to some new big tank tech and just ripping it apart choppa in hand and squig biting through the metal. I do want to try deff dreads really bad though they look amazing.
Man what a refreshing response. I very much agree. I see no reason why Orks can't have The Old Ways and a Tech-Waugh themed Kultur available. Ork books are a bit hit or miss, but there are a few decent ones out there. It's in their nature that if a Wauugh goes long enough, it will inevitably always result in Gargants and other technological monstrosities, gigantic tanks which are more rolling fortresses than anything else. This is exactly what happened in Armageddon. I actually have a few Squighogs and a Squigasaur. I went out of my way to get the models with cybernetic body parts to keep in theme. And I use Beast Snaggaz with third party bits to proxy Cyborks.
Good thing I - unlike some others here - actually really enjoy the Beast Snagga style of Orks. Love the chompy squigs, just wished the kill rig wasn't as horribly bad as it is for its size and footprint...
The big issue with Orls is that even if you raise the points of these sheets, theyre still the best points you can spend in the index because its not even funny how bad the rest of the Ork index is. Outside of Warbikes, theres nothing being under represented. If Squighogs go up to 120 that doesnt make Tankbustas suddenly good. Theyre still a waste of a datasheet. Now if GW actually balances the other cards by buffing their weapons and passives to be worth it, thats when raising the points of these spammed units would work. If simething is too good to not take at one cost, but you make it too expensive people just stop taking it. That didnt balance it though. If it ever gets a points drop it will go right back to auto include.
Couple of things. Boyz and meganobz are NOT damage dealers. Meganobz have 3 attacks at s9 ap2 d2 hitting on 4's or 2 attacks at s12 ap3. You use em as bricks. 2+ save t6 and a 4++ with the mek char. Similar with Boyz. They bounce off anything harder than meqs. They are a tarpit with lots of OC
Boyz I would most accurately call a flex unit. They have a big foot print and high OC for screening and objectives but hit hard enough to do some wounds when you really need it. However, they’re just too expensive for this role compared to other units. Drop them to 75 and I promise you’d see a lot more
Meganobz with twin killsaws definitely are damage dealers, they get dev wounds in the waaagh so you shoot them towards the biggest threat and use twin linked to fish for 6s.
@@captainweekend5276 they hit on 4's and have two attacks... do the math... you are looking at 2*1/2*(2/3+(1/3*2/3))*5/6*2 = 1,48 damage per nob vs hard targets (Vehicles 3+) and about 1,8 dmg vs heavy infantry... with a 1/6 change of doing 2 wounds instead with dev's so its a whooping 6dmg (if everything wounds critical) vs a vehicle for a three man team with a trukk (155 points). you can up that a bit with a warboss (gives +1 to hit)... but then you'll nearly double the unit cost.
@@REDN0AK Lol that is some shitty mathhammer. First of all if you're tarpitting with them you're not throwing them at vehicles and knights, second of all you don't account for the other benefits of the waaagh, sustained hits, OR twin linked which is the major difference in taking TWIN killsaws. A three man team does 8 ON AVERAGE with zero support, up that to a 6 man squad or two squads of 3 and 2/3 of a knight for 180 points is a bargain. If your only metric for "good at dealing damage" is "deletes any unit in one phase" then there are very few good damage dealers in the game. 8 wounds on average into a knight results in 5 dead marines, meganobz absolutely mince elite units unsupported, and get a hell of a lot better with actual support. The way you claim people are using them isn't supported by how we're seeing them used in lists. Maybe next time actually read the index not just the weapon profile, and actually use a proper mathhammer calculator like unitcrunch rather than trying to BS your way through it with a regular calculator.
@@captainweekend5276 wow dude hope your rage is getting xyou somewhere. must be a really fun guy to play with lol my math is correct by the way. meganobz with twinsaws are terrible. nobz with klaws are better in any way or form as are squigs. but hey just play what you want dude, its a free world
I am not an Ork player, so I might be wrong, but when I think of Orkz I think of "Going into melee and causing havoc", so I am not sure why players would be unhappy with their melee being so good, especially in an edition when other melee units are so terrrible. The problem for GW balancing from this point is that with their massive win rate, they cannot simply buff some units, and they will need to nerf things like the trukkz, but that will make melee much worse, in order to make shooting slightly better? I am not sure that that is a good trade off. I certainly wouldn't take it if I were an Orkz player. My idea of Orkz is fast, fast, and faster to punch you in the face.
Most Ork shooting is so bad right now that you can buff it a good bit, and Orks as a whole would probably stay the same. Their melee is great. Buffing shooting would actually mean less melee threats on the board, but nobody is going to run flat out really bad shooting units when they could just run more Trukks and rush in. Buff Ork shooting = less great melee units to deal with
Orks have multiple playstyles. All of them are bad right now except Trukk Melee Pressure with a focus on Objectives. Orks should, and have in the past, been able to focus on fighting instead of just objective focuses but melee damage has been heavily nerfed in 10th. Ork shooting is nerfed very heavily as the number of shots look like they hitting on 3+ rather than a 5-6+. Then this is before you get into where the hell all the AP in the army went. Orks used to have a reliable mechanized faction as well, consisting of Killa Kanz, Deff Dreads, and the FW Dreads, all the way up to Gork/Morkanaughts and the Stompa. None of these are really usable, having lost movement speed and attacks, and are generally overcosted, finally arriving at the Stompa, sitting at 800pts, meanwhile the Imperial Warhound Titan dropped from 2000pts to 1100pts and bodies a Stompa in 1 1/2 turns of shooting. Very, very little of the Ork range is usable currently. People who got into the army any time in the past are effectively being constrained into a highly specific build style as it's the only real way to deal with Meta lists. All the other stuff they remember from the past is either Legends or simply worse than anyone would want to take.
Those lists werent mellee focussed though. They flodd the board with high toughness a dudurability. That's why trukks are so good. EVERY list needs some big CC unit. Most Ork armies have two. Maybe three mid range ones. That's it. Orks play the objective game. Look at the lists again. Don't focus on the big stuff.... EVERY list has multiple units gretchins, stormboyz or warbikers or trukks. Cheap throw away units to cleanse, investigate etc... While the bricks and tarpits hold the middle and dedicated CC units eliminate the biggest threats. Meganobz are not a wrecking ball, they are the brick wall.
If you have to force them into one play style, then yes melee makes sense, it is sort of their poster boy style, goffs are basically ork ultra marines in that sense, but the roster and lore support a lot of different styles of ork armies that have been very playable over the years. So a lot of people are gonna have ork armies that get very little from the current index rules and that is a bit of a shame, I'm sure things will be better when they get their codex but I think maybe for an index rule set they could have gone with something a bit more generalist and less specialized.
@@boozebeard9501 i am ok with CC centiric index rules. gota start somewhere. alot of armies suffer the same one way or another. its just the way it is with a new edition. but not everyone needs to play competitavly... lots of units are viable. lootaz for 50p are a steal. mekgunz still pack a punch. grot tanks are great, also flashgits. if you want, focus in these in your builds you can play bricks wall, greent tide, fast or hard hitting. there are options. not every game has to be a tournament style list!
I love playing the Orks in 10th.. winning 60+ % of the time ( Mainly playing Chaos Marines who are very fun, flexible and powerful too)... My favourite main list is DA BLITZ Brigade.. 1st *tooled up ( * Kill kannon+ Deff rolla, 4 x big shootaz and Lobba) Battle Wagon with 5 Mega Nobz with Mega Mek 2nd Tooled up Battle Wagon with Waboss and 10 x Power Klaw Nobz + Mek to fix and improve Wagon shooting... 3rd Tooled up Battle Wagon with Beastboss and 10 x Beastboys + Mek for the Wagon ....they are followed by a Beastboss on Sqigasaur with Head Whoppa to buff the Beastboyz during the Whaaaa, and be a tuff target to take down, etc.... 1 x Trulk With Kaptin Badrukk and 10 x Flash Gits + Mek to improve the shooting from the Flah gitz when in the Trukk.. 1 x Grot Mob for home objective and cp farming 2 x 5 Burna Boys in reserve ( often till round 3) for objective stuff 2 x Storm Boys in reserve dropping down when missions need them... It's a fun list that's pretty good at shooting (for Orks) and crumping too... with still a bit of sneaky stuff to make this Blood Axe boy happy.... ..
This is proper ORKY but dont lose hope ya gitz , we know of many other ways TO KRUMP Its the rise of the GREENTIDE ya gitz!!! Snaggas are the obvious way to play but other WAAAGH's have been performing well too!!!
Vindicator makes your Ghaz army buff literally not exist as he can fully turn off your save. Similar situation for any amount of precision or Epic Challenge strat. Other Supreme Commanders don't have their abilities tied to a single wound model. It would be like if Lion lost abilities if you "killed" his attendants. On top of all that Ghaz still takes up 18 slots, can only fit in a Battlewagon or Stompa, and doesn't have lone operative and can't lead Boyz or Nobz. He's got a massive amount of bad points for his cost and footprint. Doesn't even have a sweep attack, and his Power Klaw is the size of a literal car.
@@ginfizz5898 ghaz is just weird datasheet fullstop this edition .. would rather they pump him up to the 300points + bracket and make him more like RG to stand alone within range of other units ...give him some better abilities to affect the army, choose choices and make him have sweep/strike ffs :) prophet my ass :)
As a Tech-Waaugh enthusiast, these are not particularly interesting or even original lists. They all seem fundamentally the same concept just with some slight modifications. I really hope some day that battlewagons are allowed to be interesting or useful. To have more tanks/armor options, Cyborks, vehicles in general. For lootaz to actually be fun and competent. I know GW literally refuses to ever allow the Stompa to be useful…..not sure why they bothered releasing the model in the first place…..but it is my dream to one day be able to actually field mine in a competitive list without instantly throwing the game.
While I respect your armor enthusiasm, I gotta say that virtually every other army besides Orkz is Oops All Vehicles. You bring vehicles and infantry that can hurt vehicles, otherwise your getting Big Guns Never Tired off the map by tanks with 16 guns that you cant kill. So I dont know that Orkz need to be yet another tank army.
@@njal2326 I mentioned several things besides tanks. Not sure why you fixated on that only. Stompas, Deff dredds, killa kans, Nauts, Meganobz, meks/big meks, lootaz, burnaz, AND actual combat tanks, everything that follows that tech theme. That’s what I’d like to see supported. I also specified CYBORKs. So much Ork fluff and fiction focuses on “Tech Waughs” like Archfiend and Brutal Kunnin. Besides I reject the idea that every army has ONE valid way to play it. That is a pure piss idea that GW has been pushing ever since 8th Ed. I would be supremely happy if EVERY army has their own means to play a viable Tank/armour list, as long as it fits with their general themes and aesthetic.
@@The-Yellow-Man I just used the word tank as shorthand for all the things you mentioned to save space. And I do agree with more versatility, you should be able to play those things. I was just reflecting on how it is great that Orkz and World Eaters are exceptions to the other armies that "have" to bring all T10+ mechanized things.
@@njal2326 “Great” is definitely subjective here. I really don’t think it’s “great” at all. To each their own. The original statement still stands. I want to see Cyborks which USED to be an actual option once upon a time. I want to see more Tech themed shenanigans and a Kultur that actually supports my play style instead of punishing me for operating outside the “GW APPROVED” way to play the army.
Just to spite Beastsnagga dominance, I’m putting together a homebrew klan of ex-snakebites and meks who got sick of squigs chewing up their gubbinz and thus banned them from the battlefield in favour of walkers and buggies.
These will take a kicking next balance pass hopefully alot less bad than the pointy ears get but there’s no guarantee given what went down last time… i honestly thing gw are crap at balancing rules… its feast or famine all the frigen time…
What boring looking lists. I miss the days of the old thin green covered Ork codex from about 1998. Options for the likes of a looted Basilisk (or most Imperial vehicles at the time) and even Mega Armour Nob led trukk boys mobs. This whole era of "only whats in the box" has killed the feel of the Orks for me as well as other armies.
"𝗢𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀: A Warboss may be given any equipment allowed from the Ork Armoury" - 😠👎❌❌❌ "Here's 4 fixed options to choose from, go buy the models. 4 warbosses in 1 army? Yeah whatever who gives a shit, go buy multiples of em" -😄👍✅✅✅ Modern 40k is a pile of shit and I'm tired of pretending its not
I chuckle that someone is looking for a return to shooty Orks; I don't think a single Ork has EVER killed a single enemy with a shooting attack, their BS is SO bad.😊 I sort of appreciate that they arw kind of like World Eaters; they know that they are an assault army, and their guns are just for the loud noise, and they build to reflect it. Of course, I don't play Orks, so I'm mnot speaking to what would actually be good. 😊
Release of Orks 8th edition codex, and 9th edition codex saw incredible shooting potential from the orks. This isn't really what I feel a lot of folks are talking about, at least not the folks at my FLGS. Orks used to have wacky guns that were viable, lifta-droppas, supa-skorchas, boom bits, shuntas, etc. The old shock attack gun would implode in your own lines killing everything within 6" on a double 1 but it sure did some damage. Older ork weapons all just did neat things. Its not necessaryily that ork shooting needs to be good, it needs to be fun.
@cgb1995 the 9th codex release was horrible, the meta list for orks did not feel like orks at all more like playing guard or tau. Ork shooting should always be viable but never meta because when it becomes the meta it just turns orks on their heads because it makes them suck for the majority of players who actually play orks as orks.
Lootas and the shokk attack gun used to be very swingy but if you rolled alright were monstrously powerful in their day, plus in the age of templates the explosion was so big even ork shooting struggles to miss the target completely.
