The piece you reference from the opening to "Masquerade" is actually the "Angel of Music" melody, which is used multiple times throughout Phantom in various settings.
To be specific, this is an abridged version of the Entr'acte that starts before Act 2 and begins with the 'Angel of Music' melody, as this is from the film adaptation of the stage show that excised some material. Most of the Entr'acte was removed and this section was transposed and tacked on to the beginning of Masquerade (presumably to make the film flow better and remove the sense of an interval). That being said, I don't believe the two melodies are especially similar when looking at the melodic arc and harmony on the a whole, although they begin similarly. Probably a happy coincidence.
I sang in the men's chorus of "La Fanciulla Del West" - and the notes and rhythms of the chorus are literally note for note the same as "turn your face away from the garrish light of day".When we sightread it for the first time we all kept looking at each other in amazement!
Not only is the second theme of "Music of the Night" lifted from La Fanciulla del West, the opening theme is a direct quotation from Lerner and Lowe's "Bend to Me" from Brigadoon.
Yes, welcome to the club of those who noticed the resemblances and have long wondered how it is that Puccini's melodies could be, well, so clearly present, and certainly inspirational, in Webber's work. A composer of his calibre would not simply cop someone else's work, or "sample" as it was called during the early rap days (which always irked me). Besides, in his world there would've been plenty of colleagues well familiar with Puccini who would have heard the similarities long before first rehearsal. So, none of them chimed in? Likely, out of concern they might offend him. Out of the examples you include in your analysis, I've only heard The Phantom, so I was unaware that other of his works had been "inspired" by Puccini as well. I'll never forget the first time we went to the theatre to take in a post-Crawford cast performance and my missus and I were enjoying it immensely and then, Music of the Night started and we slowly looked at each other. lol Neither of us could quite believe it. Naturally we did a little reading up afterward and learned about the settlement with the Puccini estate. Now that I've learned what I did from you, likely the family put their foot down when it happened a _third_ time. I'm gonna guess the estate settled for a cut of the royalties in lieu of shutting the shows down. Puccini was not known for his due diligence ("a desert outside of New Orleans" in Manon Lescaut's last act), or his fun with character naming -- Ping, Pang, Pong in Turandot, and then in La Fanciulla of Ramerrez, Puccini's spelling of il bandito messicano's family name, who grabs an alias out of the air when Rance asks his name and there it is, it's Dick Johnson. 😂 Maybe he was inspired by Verdi's naming of the villain in Luisa Miller: Wurm. My missus will get a kick out of this. Liked / subd / playlisted. Paz y salud.
Didn't know that Webber also sampled Musetta's Waltz, I was only aware of Jonathan Larson using it as Roger's go-to guitar noodling (makes sense, Rent is based off of La Bohème). Very interesting!
It seems that there is a more direct Puccini borrowing that was not discussed here. In "Phantom of the Opera," the song "Past the Point of No Return" appears to be a direct borrowing from the concluding bars of "La Boheme"--the part not sung, but played by the orchestra. I believe the lyric is "The days we knew are nearly at an end."
I didn't know that, thank you for your comment! My analysis comes from an interview with Jerry Hadley actually, in which he compares "Un bel dì vedremo" to "Memory" :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e455hVcuEng.html
Oh, I meant to ask, in the Quello che tacete, is that Giuseppe Giacomini and Marilyn Zchau? We're fans of the Great Domingo, Zampieri, and Pons in that La Scala production. Paz.
Puccini is the most lifted composer of all time. The standard western film sound is from Puccini. It’s quite majestic. Phantom of the opera lifts a lot from Puccini. But like you say; who cares. It can’t be helped. John Williams lifted much of his music from old ‘30’s films.
I’d like to add that E Lucevan le stelle and one of the themes from Jesus a Christ Superstar are very similar. I don’t know the name but when Judas tells the priest ‘on Thursday night you’ll find him where you want him … in the garden of Gethsemane’ brings it to mind every time! The Cats and Butterfly similarity has been on my mind for years and the only person I could have discussed it with was my dad but he died before I managed to. I’m so pleased to have found your video 😊
Thanks for this video. I knew of the Fanciulla quotation, but not the others. So I learned something! Thanks! The video is also extremely well-produced. The problem honestly isn't that he stole from Puccini. Composers steal from one another all the time. For example, Mozart stole several melodies from Paisiello's version of Barber of Seville when writing Marriage of Figaro. The real problem is that Lloyd Webber ends up dumbing the material down. I know I risk sounding like an opera snob, so I want to stipulate that musicals and pop can be brilliant. Rodgers and Hammerstein, Kern, Wilson, and Hart, for example, are brilliant, as are all those songs sung by Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Louis Armstrong, etc. But having liked Phantom of the Opera as a kid, I can't help but think every time I happen to hear Lloyd Weber's music that I'm eating whipped cream. It's pure sugar, and while it might be delicious at first, the returns diminish with every taste, for there is ultimately not much there. But that's of course just my reaction.
Thanks a ton for your comment Eric, and yes I absolutely understand what you mean!!! It's not necessarily an issue that I wanted to highlight in this video, but as you rightly mention, many composers borrow themes from others all the time. Another prominent example is Bizet using someone else's melody for the Habanera in his Carmen. That in itself isn't necessarily the problem, but for some reason it feels cheap when Lloyd Webber does it, but I cannot articulate to you exactly why...
Great video. I always wondered what the fuss was about. I will give Andrew Lloyd Webber a pass on plagiarism. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Sounds like Andrew Lloyd Webber adapted all of those melodies to make them far catchier and more melodious than Puccini had originally done. That's if he (allegedly) stole those musical ideas from Puccini. He adapted them from grand opera in style to be more in line with modern pop, which tends to be instantly satisfying to the masses whereas Puccini takes some repeated listenings to unlock the complexity and to fully appreciate. I will always perceive Andrew Lloyd Webber as musically gifted because even if he did quote from established works, he did so in a manner that isn't direct copying but cleverly adapted enough so they fall within a whole new genre and are only similar as opposed to identical.
