Man, they really knocked this one out of the park. Really cool to have a well-built reasonably-priced option that can do 180W while following the PD standards!
Yeah, I like the design philosophy. In time hopefully the laptops and firmware issues will get better. In this case at least they tried where no one else has even bothered.
I think part of the reason other companies aren't jumping on the 240W USB PD bandwagon is the fact that there's basically no components yet. None of the known and trusted IC companies have USB PD controllers that support over 28V, so they're holding off on using chips like the Weltrend that framework is using. That chip is, to my knowledge, the only USB PD controller that exists currently with 36V support. Their 48V model has a part number but doesn't exist yet I believe, their information isn't public so I have no idea.
Yep, I mentioned that in one of the other comments. I went through a few parts sites looking for components and came up with very few options, none at 48V. A large company isn't going to pick up the banner either, why change the laptop to match the power supply. I have a board that will negotiate for 48V PD now so that's one step closer.
@@AllThingsOnePlace lucky, I wonder what they did to make that work... Probably used some resistor divider trickery and/or microcontrollers to bit bang the protocol
@@AllThingsOnePlaceAVS only does 0.1v steps and only at or above 15v (9v with the revised AVS in PD 3.2, but this is only PD 3.1). PPS does 0.02v steps and can go as low as 3.3v (and up to 21v). AVS is certainly newer and bigger than PPS, but not necessarily better. More complimentary.
The problem with running 48V to the laptop is that the stepndown circutry is inefficient and generates a lot of heat. Arguably, this negates any benefit of reducing power loss through the cable itself. Not to mention, that additional cooling reduced efficency and increases weight. That's likely why most manufacturers are sticking to 20V adapters and proprietary plugs (like Asus' new G14 and G16 laptops with reversible type-c like plugs) that stick to 20V and >5A. Notably, the cables aren't the problem, its the USB-c pins that can't handle more than 5A as they were never designed that way, hence the higher voltages.
Thanks! Yeah, I didn't want to get that detailed in the video, it is amazing that 5 amps makes through those tiny pins, although in general they skimp on wire size too on some cables. In terms of efficiency, yeah, there is a little bit of a hit, it would be interesting to test the trade off of the entire system 40V-5A versus 20V-10A (barrel plug) for example. There are so many power supplies and voltages in a laptop it would take substantial work, and obviously it gets done things work... I think the bigger reason is that there's 1,000,000 pieces of cheap 24v rated buck converter chips from any supplier but if you need a 50v buck rated parts that number shrinks greatly. I just checked mouser, it's not good. So, supplier problems, cost, etc.
@@AllThingsOnePlaceanother thing to note is that Chinese proprietary chargers going extreme speeds also do the same thing, and they’re creating proprietary usb c cables that support 10 or even 12/13 amps of power now, at 20 volts. Maybe in the future we could see a USB PD 4.0 that has both 48v 5a and 20v 12a support.
No the buck converters can be very power efficient. You can make capacitor based switching circuits that have 95+% efficiency. And you need to have buck converters anyway. You will not get more efficiency by using lower voltage. It is not true that this negates any benefit of reducing power loss through the cable itself. It just costs more right now and needs new designs.
Maybe the 240w, 48v 5a power supply was supposed to be also out at the same time, but there are some issues with that adaptor’s certifications that mean that charger is being delayed until further notice.
You should definitely look at some of Alogic's line specifically the Alogic Matrix 3 in 1 and the Alogic matrix ultimate seems like a brilliant product intresting to see if there is a catch.
Thanks, yeah, the power adapters themselves look like clones of things I've already tested. I haven't done any of the wireless charging things yet but I added them to the list.
As always, thanks for the nice review! A lot of the newer HP and Dell PCs only have USB C ports for charging. Will this work on their "proprietary" charging standards?
Glad I watched this. I figured it'd be fine to power anything up to 180W. I love the idea of having a USB-C cable around I can connect to whatever needs to be charged or powered at the time. I didn't realize it wouldn't be recommended for lower power stuff. I know you said don't use it for 30W, but what is the lowest you would recommend?
Looks great! thanks for reviewing this! Looked at the "USB-C" charger that just came with my new Dell laptop and it's rated for 165W, but at 28V and nearly 6 amps. Gotta love violating the USB spec. Looks like Framework is far out ahead of everybody else. Looking forward to a future with 240W USB-C adapters, though.
Yeah, they are, but also substantially lower volume. The chips to go up to 36V are made at orders of magnitude less volume than the ones that go to 30V so, until that volume is up Dell, et all, will keep doing what they're doing.
I didn't really acknowledge how awesome it is. My Framework 180W charger is barely a centimeter longer than the 100W charger that came with my Yoga 7i. Nearly twice the power in basically the same volume!
Thank you so much for your detailed reviews and efforts. I'm really confused about buying an adapter for my MacBook Pro 2019 and iPhone 14 Plus. I had finalized the Baseus 100W adapter after watching one of your videos, but it had reviews about very low longevity. Can you please help me buy an adapter that excels in all aspects, especially longevity?
Longevity is tough. It really comes down to use, and also quality. Some of the lesser known brands tend to be bad in that way. If you want longevity over all else for the adapter, use the Apple adapters.
Even though the Framework blog post discusses the topology, it would be nice to see a tear down anyways! I want to know what their PCB layout looks like, heat management, etc
I was going to use this one that's why I don't want to break it. The heat management is interesting you can see in the thermal image there is a cold spot in the middle. Is that an area where there's less thermal compound or maybe that's where all the capacitors are? I wish I could get this stuff for free, haha. This video made about $15 so far. If it makes $100 I'll tear it down since it essentially paid for itself and I can buy another one. or Framework just got a bunch of money they can sponsor a teardown of their adapter?
@@AllThingsOnePlace I bet if you reached out to them, they might send you another one. The CEO is pretty active on social media too, if you can't get ahold of anyone (I see him comment on Hacker News posts every now and then)
Haven’t stopped by in a long while. How ya doin? Interesting to see 36V adapters on the market. Surprised that the Framework is still the only 36V adapter seeing as it came out at some point last year.
Not bad, just been busy with work, August plan is to get back on a more normal schedule here. Yeah, this is a first and it may be the only one for a very long time.
@@AllThingsOnePlace Oh boy I feel ya. Work has ramped up significantly in the summer as usual for me. I think it’ll be interesting seeing who releases the first 48V PD charger. PD controllers already have implemented 48V charging in multiple devices so hopefully it’ll just be a matter of time from here. Maybe one of the chinese phone brands
Hi, I saw your review of the SlimQ 240 watt. Based on what I see here with the Framework 180 watt, it seems to be better, for one thing, for having all the safety certifications, I am guessing. I actually bought the SlimQ-240, and it has not given me any problems for like 2 years or more. My laptop have these specifications of 19.5 volts and 9.23 Amps, which is basically 180 watts. But one odd thing with the SlimQ-240 when I first tried to power my laptop was that it did get hot. That maybe happened 2 to 3 times right at the beginning. BUT from then on, it has remained very stable, temperature wise. I got the SlimQ right when it got released, I believe. BUT what I like about the Framework 180 watt, is that dimension wise, it is a bit smaller than the SlimQ-240, also weighs a bit less.The only thing lacking for this Framework 180 watts is a DC barrel. BUT I found online that there is a Type-C to DC barrel adapter. SO, I am planning on getting this Framework 180, because it has more safety certifications and is a bit smaller in size and weight as the SlimQ-240.
@@AllThingsOnePlace Hi thanks for your reply. On the Framework website, I don't see the detailed specifications in terms of voltage and current. So are you trying to say that the specs may be like 20 Volts and 9 Amps, or like 24 volts and 7.5 Amps, on this Framework 180 watt charger?
Thanks for another good one. I am in need of another youtube first. Power banks for reclining chairs seem to be way overpriced. I tried and failed to use a normal powerbank w/USB C to 2pin homemade adapter. The chair didn't move. Please consider showing how this can be done and what specs have to meet for the adapter. Also, lazy boy has a different plug than the standard. My chair is not lazy boy, but it may be something for the video. Thanks for your time.
mmm, yeah, it's about figuring out what protocol they are using if it has a USB port. It could be quick charge or QC, or if PD would need an appropriate PD trigger board. One of the USB monitor things in line would tell you the voltage maybe even the mode depending on what you get. The data lines or cc lines for QC or PD respectively need to be connected as well. If it's just straight voltage, they shouldn't be using a USB port.
haha, yeah, they seriously need to standardize that but I think volume is too low for anyone to do that. USB C at 48V and 5A though will get the 240W across, and there's a converter to the battery anyway... So, that higher power USB may be the bicycle battery charger future.
Your videos are excellent! What's the current state for 240w usb c adapters? I've got a laptop that will support 200w, a couple 100w adapters/banks and a bunch of 240w cables...not good for my ocd
I do periodically do a video on 'best of'. I want to get it on the allthings webpage also. This is a one person operation, barely get the videos out. But yeah, making a playlist would be pretty low effort and that's a good idea!
Thanks for the video. Really appreciate if you can do a video(s) on Lenovo Legion GAN series chargers ( C135, C140 & C170). These chargers are widely used, however there is not much in detailed testeng done on these chargers. It will be helpfull if you can do it.Thanks in Advance
The sink is the Siglent load tester with 4 wire mode enabled. The negotiation board is an eBay special, I'm going to do a writeup on Patreon for that. This one does not support AVS.
I want laptops to bring ethernet ports back with POE power input as an alternative to the USB-C and while we're at it we might as well make USB-C go all the way up to 48V aslo.
Yeah, PoE is probably the thing driving the power supply market, there's a drive for converters that can do the 48V to 1V in one step to make these more efficient and usable across that wide voltage range.
Would something like this be enough power to put in my Jsaux RGB docking station to power my monitor wireless mouse and keyboard and headset? The charger I have now at 65W just bottles out 😢. Thank you for your help. Keep up the sick and informative work I really appreciate it.
This is probably a bit overkill for that. The docking station probably has a maximum supported input power, most likely 100 watts, so something in that range should work.
It would be, but the issue is the compatibility of the power supply. This doesn't have the lower voltage most laptops run on so power wise it would be fine, but practically, it won't go over 100W with most laptops, 140W with a MacBook Pro 16" and 180W with the Framework.
It supports the modes required by the MBP, of course you need the MBP cable to get 140W still. But at 140W the apple adapter is just as good as this one. So, not really much of a need.
Still one port. You'd expect after usb-c bacame mainstream PC manufacturers would evolve to the logical next step of having maybe one or two more ports, which they don't have many spares of on the laptops anymore... At least it has a detachable usb-c cable, unlike my more expensive Lenovo's adapter.
Yeah, I'm surprised they haven't opened up a bit more on some of these chargers. I understand with this framework as it is the conventional laptop brick, just with more power, but yeah an extra port would be nice, even if it was much lower power capability.
It's Bit-Rate and CPU codec remdering. This resolution thing is just dumb and a complete waste, what matters is bit-rate and bit-depth. Higher resolutions are dumb and a waste.
@@AllThingsOnePlace I refreshed the stream several times but only got a black screen with a slightly lighter overlay on it. I assumed it was an audio presentation. Sorry.
Hello, I have been trying to find info on how to supply power to various USB ights etc here in my studio. I have all these little USB adapters plugged in here and there including plugged into my PC. I would like to buy "one" device like a USB hub to plug them all into. I do not need anything for charging,, just supplying power to my various lights. My goal is to not use my PCs to supply power to lighting. It's been a confusing journey trying to find what I need, everything talks about "charging" which is not what I'm interested in. If you could point me to a product that can handle between 10-20 lights, I would greatly appreciate it. thank you so much!
The thing I focused on is the number of lights. 10-20, if they need lots of power you'll end up with multiple adapters anyway. I have a video using a power adapter with LED light panels. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iiUNDbo5zq0.html
Apple adapters have a good reputation, I haven't really used any of the newer ones though. Today these are all essentially the same as anyone else making these high density supplies that tries. They all get hot, my expectation is their not going to last long under any major use, test of time will prove it out I guess.
As of about August 2023 when I last searched the Amazon reviews, the Apple 140W adapter was conclusively the only reliable 140W adapter. I tested a handful of other from Anker and some others and they have all died, same as was reported by the Amazon reviewers. Dell was the only other source of reliable adapter, but their output is the non-standard 20V, >5A. Unless something has dramatically changed in the past year, the dominant story for these adapters is whether they die prematurely. If that has changed, it would be interesting to understand how to tell a failure-prone adapter from others. I get that durability isn’t easy to measure, but that doesn’t make it matter any less.
@adalbert93_75 On each amazon product page there is a box that allows you to search reviews on that product. I recommend searching “died”, “dead”, and “fail” on each of the products you are considering. I did so on each of the products reviewed by this channel in the 140W class as well as some others. That confirmed to me that the failures I saw weren’t anomalous. This Framework power supply is obviously too new to have much of a review history so it might be better to stick with those with a longer track record. I just did that search on a few of the most recent vintage of ~140W adapters. The recent negative reviews suggest that problem remains.
@adalbert93_75 On each amazon product page there is a box that allows you to search reviews on that product. I recommend searching “died”, “dead”, and “fail” on each of the products you are considering. I did so on each of the products reviewed by this channel in the 140W class as well as some others. That confirmed to me that the failures I saw weren’t anomalous. This Framework power supply is obviously too new to have much of a review history so it might be better to stick with those with a longer track record. I just did that search on a few of the most recent vintage of ~140W adapters. The recent negative reviews suggest that problem remains.
This doesn't to it justice. The description would also apply to 140W Dell chargers, which only give 60W to non-Dell laptops. The Framework one follows the PD standard even at 180W (using EPR), which means it will charge non-Framework devices at full power.
Framework 16 That's what it is designed for, the BEST and the LAST laptop you will EVER buy. 100% Repairable. 100% Upgradable. You can change the GPU without changing the motherboard(you can upgrade the mobo too). Just the best in the world.
