I love that DIYer math. I saved $100… by spending $600. I do that all of the time but it sure has helped me build up a pretty decent tool cabinet in the garage and shed.
Don't forget time spent. I always figure in $55 an hour for my time on DIY projects. It gets even more depressing when you're doing fab work or 3d printing and it takes you 20-30 hours to make a part that would have just cost $150.
I'm sixty eight years old. Been around vehicals from a hands on point like your son. Helping Dad, uncles and older brothers. I can remember the tyre/tire guys having basic gear just like you were using with a few little differences, they also had a book with reference numbers and make their adjustments, if you were still having problems they would apply experience, they would ask a bunch of questions and adjust to what their experience told them, they were usually spot on. These days most of the guys don't really understand what they are trying to accomplish and would not be able to do the job if there wasn't a computer attached. Good show.
@@webguy943 calcu what's?? Huh, Nah I don't mind progress, was just a comment on the way techs were able to have a handson feel for their work, able to make repairs to the base unit, instead of just replacing parts. Just an acknowledgement for those that have gone before us. The techs these days still have a feel for their equipment, it's just through a computer.
@@kezzatries I dont understand how the new machines work. Never seen one. As far as im concerned its super accurate lasers or something you cant repeat with string.
Crap work and arguments with “front desk guys” are the main reason I have takin to doing everything myself. Buy the way I used to work for a company that ran multiple top level race programs. We aligned cars with string and tape measures, it’s just math shops don’t have some kind of magic you can’t figure out.
Ditto, I use fishing line so that I can get a nice tight pull on the line and finer measurements when checking dimensions. I ran the math on 17" wheels, if you can measure within plus or minus 1/32", you will have alignment specs within plus or minus 0.08 degrees.
Good point, though I'm wondering if alignment for road cars actually needs to be more precise than for race cars? With road cars, if the alignment is slightly off, it causes fast tire wear that people will tend to find unacceptable. With race cars, I assume that any tire wear from misalignment is negligible because you're tearing through tires extremely quickly anyway.
Ha, everyone really pushes alignments, some claiming every oil change. Only two of my vehicles have been on an alignment machine and one of those was fubared (long story) while the other was only checked and deemed close enough.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 yeah that’s ridiculous. We recommended checking it when someone bought new tires especially with our roads here being horrible at best. Even then only about 50% off the cars checked would really need it. The alignment and front end check was only 19.99 and considering most of the work of doing an alignment was setting it up on the machine it was a good deal and cheap insurance to prevent prematurely wearing a new set of tires due to something like a worn out tie rod end or the alignment being off. Trying to sell an alignment every oil change is insanity
I’ve seen them come in with ball joints falling out due to being pressed in crooked and stretching the hole in the control arm, bushings on control arms that looked like they didn’t even try to press them in, Tire rods left so loose where the taper isn’t even seated in the knuckle. One of my biggest pet peeves was brand new inner tie rod ends with a missing or completely torn dust boots. They have to know that tie rod is not going to last very long all because they couldn’t bother to replace a $20 boot. Last week we had one from Firestone where they installed a new alternator, overtightened the stud on the back, and the car almost caught on fire due to melting the wires and harness it ran along with.
Wanna know some facts. I used to work at Firestone as a tech before i quit. One of the guys training me on the alignment rack (Hunter Rack). If they were lazy, they would quickly punch the tire to get it to bounce into spec on the computer and quickly run over and hit the "save" button on the computer for the print out results to "show the customer". Just food for thought guys. I didnt work with Firestone for long, maybe a month. I went into being a mobile mechanic because I wasnt taught to do shaddy work. My grandpa taught me that you do the job right the first time because you don't get paid twice. Be honest, I dont know everything but I'll tell you what, if i don't know. I will tell you that i don't know and I'm not very trained in this specific brand/model. Honesty goes a long way, it really does.
That's the same exact reason why dealership flat rate techs are constantly **** on. It's the lazy ones who want nothing more than to get the job done quickly and easily by ANY means possible because they only care about money and completely disregard the fact they're working on a 6-7 thousand pound death machine. One of the many things that sucks about the car industry is you actually get rewarded for that behavior at most - if not all - dealerships, and even some independent shops. It's the mechs/ techs that aren't trained well, aren't bright/ have no common sense, or are just pure lazy/ just do not care that give us a bad name.
@@cameronbrule7912 I totally agree with you. The one thing that honestly bugs me the most is techs not torquing wheels after brakes or doing tires for example. They put them on with their impact and ship it saying it's fine. Techs do that and people wonder why the threads on the studs get stretched out. Especially if people are running wheel spacers. Also a good way to warp your rotors after a few heat cycles down the road and get a shimmy in the steering wheel when you hit the brakes. I understand a lot of cars don't make it easy to get a torque wrench in a lot of spots and you can judge it by experience. I understand that side of it, but wheels are the easiest one to torque and it's also the most dangerous one to fall off going down the highway and a wheel and tire slamming into a school bus full of kids is what I think about. Imagine being a tech and getting sued because you're the last one who worked on it, and the tech signs the bottom of the paper. The business will throw techs under the bus if anything happens or BAR shows up to investigate. I understand shops want to rush techs but stand together as techs in a shop and it gets done when it gets done because it's going to be done right or you can take it somewhere else. I've said that to a customer before and when I started my mobile mechanic business. He was one of my first customers and still is to this day. Great guy actually.
Link below of a bent rim most likely but just an example for people to see even if the rim was straight and true. If the lugnuts are not torqued evenly, you can see the brake caliper slides are moving in and out making for a warped rotor that would also cause the same drivability down the road. All from simply not torquing the lugnuts. ru-vid.comn1wXxjONFHo?si=h9_PdBDT1pZcvNjO
I've been doing my own wheel alignment with 4 laser levels, magnetic clamps, a long straight edge and tape measure. Piece a cake. You can use the old trick of sandwiching two vinyl floor tile squares with some wheel bearing grease in between to slip under the tires to allow them to turn easily.
I did a toe alignment on my foxbody but I'm still getting really bad inner wear. Is there another step other than just measuring the distance between the front and back of the front tires?
@@jamesstuart3238 yes, absolutely. You are only checking toe (in/out). Which is 1 of 3 parameters. Caster and Camber cannot be checked in this manner. Sounds like you have a camber issue, maybe too much negative camber
Can just see those tiles flying out and decapitating someone. LOL. With grease all over the place. Maybe you just jack up the car put them down and then jack the car up again???
@@tanyalove6983 what? How would that work? I think you're misunderstanding something or thinking about cartoon physics. I'm pretty sure if you offered a million dollar bounty, nobody on planet earth could decapitate someone with a piece of flexible linoleum/vinyl by driving a car tire on top of it. Lol
@@TheMuddman74 ROBL I made that up too it is roll on bed laughing. ROBL. you said tiles I assumed they were ceramic tiles and I have seen stones and all sorts of things shoot out from under tires. Depends on how fast the idiot revs the engine. LOL. You are so funny. I will sleep well ROBL
I have started doing my own alignments and found that my cars were never properly aligned. There is no point in having a super-accurate machine if it's not used properly. Even with an expensive machine on a 4-post, the operator still needs patience, care, and attention.
As an Alignment Technician My self of 6yrs I 100% Agree I go by a rule of 0.3 for toe & 25% for Castor/ Camber anything more and ill redo the ROC and Castor Sweeps to be sure there is nothing bent or my sensors haven't been knocked by foot traffic in the workshop
We have a nice rack at work and it took me a few times to understand that I needed to align the rear of the car first lol. I'd do the front, then the rear, and then I'd need to adjust the front again 😆
I'm a little flustered at this video... I have literally made a pretty identical alignment tool to that along time ago. I honestly now wish I had patented it. I've had people tell me I can't align a vehicle without an alignment rack. Well I've been aligning my own and friends/ families vehicles for years pretty much like this. They all drive straight with straight steering wheels and no excess of tire wear. Mine is a pretty identical tool too be honest. I used to use a buble level, only recently use a bubble level and a digital angle finder And I've always settled on 1/16 of toe in.
Yeah theres probably several patents on this stuff and hard to really come up with something unique. Like you others have just made there own vs buying one. Many dont have $600 to spend to save $100 lol
I wish I had patented masking tape, a sharpie, and a tape measure, but then I'd just be buying swordfish steak lunch for some coke head patent attorney.
I’m dealing with shop not aligning my truck correct at this moment, second TIME, while I watch your vid. Great explanation of just what goes into an alignment and it drives me nuts my steering wheel not straight as well. New subscriber because as a DIY for most things vehicles I am learning more about all the time and it’s save me big money so far doing it myself.
Back in my racing days, I fabricated my own brackets to check camber with an angle finder and use fishing string to adjust toe. The caster would be adjusted to full positive. For the turning plates, 2 pieces of 12x12 vinyl tile, with a dab of oil between them, for each wheel.
I love you're swift process. no blabla, no loud music, no unnecessary talk. (not that it's all bad but during a "how to" it gets in the way) sweet knowledge.
Most shops do free alignment checks. Would have been interesting to see a print out from one of the machines to compare measurements and see how well it came out.
Every time I get the print out from a shop the numbers are accurate but the car drives like shit. Its like they fuck with the machine to make it read incorrectly.
RE: 4-wheel alignment requirement - rear thrust angle is required to set your steering wheel angle. For example: presume your wheels and steering wheel are perfectly aligned, then adjust your rear beam axle position (i.e. left tire forward, right tire backward). Now your vehicle dog-tracks and you must counter-steer to drive straight down the road. Now, your steering wheel is mis-aligned. Thus, rear axle measurement matters for setting the steering wheel angle.
i worked as an alinement and drivability tech. constantly worked on stuff other guys got wrong and bought a similar set on amazon. i was kinda nervous to watch you as i dont trust people to do alignments anymore. good job.
Pro tip, recheck all angles after setting toe, changing toe by large amounts will change camber, especially on vehicles with high caster numbers. I always set toe first then caster/camber. then reset toe and verify cam/cas hasn't moved after. The reason for checking the rear on a straight axle design, 4-wheel alignment, is to verify the thrust angle of the rear is in tolerance, ensure frame is not offset, also helps in setting toe so the steering wheel is straight, i.e. if rear thrust angle favors the right, and you ignore the rear angle your steering wheel will appear to turn right while driving straight. I would still verify accuracy of wheel alignment attachment, jack up wheel and check three equal points of wheel to see if all three camber points on wheel the same camber reading before doing actual alignment, if it is off the least little bit, alignment can eat tires or pull after adjusting alignment angles to perfect numbers.
This! I used to do alignments on the machines, I was one of the ones that actually cared and always wanted to get the alignment as perfect as possible for every car as if it was my own. Hence i don't work there anymore lol. I could do them within the allotted time but most shops don't care or the tech doesn't care. Anyway, almost 100% if his toe was that far out, and he didn't recheck the caster and camber, it's definitely gonna be out of alignment. He's gonna need new tires soon lol
While the shop is wrong about being able to adjust the rear of your truck, the machine needs all 4 alignment heads setup to measure thrust line (center line). It then compares the center line of the vehicle to each wheel to make sure the adjustments made on toe\camber\caster don't push it out of center alignment. If only the front was measured, then there's no way to know if the rear is aligned with the front and the vehicle doesn't crab down the road. Yes, the front can be aligned separately but without measuring the rear and thrust line, your truck may not go down the road straight. FYI
No the string method would not work. and just to clarify, the thrust angle is essentially aligning the front wheel to the rear. If the the vehicle is dog tracking that indicates the rear thrust angle is off ie rear axle is not straight and on a fixed axle like this truck the thrust alignment will not cure the dog tracking problem but it will allow the computer to compensate and calculate the proper toe adjustment for the front in order to keep the steering wheel straight. Btw that is the primary reason for the thrust alignment, steering wheel center. Also I am a shop owner and own a 100k Hunter Aligner the same model that every vehicle manufacturer has at their factories and in today s world folks this machine not only aligns the vehicle but also calibrates the steering angle sensors lane departure systems and ADAS integration systems I’m 40 years in I don’t mess around people get their moneys worth with any reputable shop that has this equipment. Please don’t buy this junk I’ve seen it all trust me. I mean 3d 3ccD camera aircraft landing technology compared to this? Really?
If you 'know' the mechanic personally and they understand you expect a final completed alignment to be very close to center (not just anywhere within a wide open tolerance you can drive a truck through), then I agree. I'm afraid the days of finding shops like this have become few and far in between though. Most (especially chain shops) refuse to 'calibrate' any alignment that falls within a tolerance - even if one wheel is at the far end of 'positve limit' and the other is at the far end of 'negative limit'.
Drop a plumb-bob from the centerline of your car at the front and rear axle, pull fishing line down each side measured from the centerline, measure distances top and bottom for camber and front and back for toe. If you can measure plus or minus 1/32" on a 17" wheel you can get accuracy plus or minus 0.08 degrees.
There is usually at least one reputable shop with good honest techs and staff in any given area you just may have to do some asking around. As a tech who specializes in driveability/diagnostics I know how hard that can be. I am constantly fixing cars that have been to multiple shops with horror stories that turn out to be something simple that any competent tech should’ve found. Cars are becoming more and more complex and sadly there are a lot of guys out there that just refuse to put forth the effort to keep up with modern technologies yet want to stay in the industry. Ask around and look for a shop that cares enough to send their techs to training and stands behind their work. Sometimes it may seem more expensive at a shop like this but I assure you that you’ll save money in the long run as they’ll diagnose and fix your car right the FIRST time instead of throwing parts at the problem and making excuses for why they had to change it and the problem still exists. The amount of knowledge required and the amount of investment in equipment required to be a great technician who works on all makes and models would surprise a lot of people.
Great video and good on you for having a go. If you are "playing" with suspension, wheel track or base, and/or wheel diameter then a wheel alignment is needed. As you do do these changes, having you alignment gear makes sense. Also you can experiment what works best for your setup. Old school alignment (done 1000's this way). That is exactly how I did alignments back in the 70's except no digital levels, just level bubbles. Pro tip: Due to camber in the road (road off side is normally lower to let water run off the road) the off side (passenger side) should have 1/2 degree more CASTER. The big trick is to try to ensure your work space is as level as possible. Also check your wheel base front to back on each side (wheel center to wheel center). As your rear suspension is not alignable, any difference from side to side can mean: worn bushes, bent axle housing, bent chassis, bent front control arms, worn ball joints, etc. Allowable in my opinion is about an 1/8 inch (be lucky to be less in a new vehicle from the factory). If you have a difference I seem to remember that more cast may be required on the short side to compensate for the crabbing. As you make changes there are some things that may require alignment tweaks (away from manufacturers specs). As you widen the front wheel track the camber may need to change (and sometimes not as you think), also the toe in may need to change. I've done a bit with race and modified vehicles. I still have the turn tables in storage ........... I think. 🙂
The best alignment is still on a set of turn plates, using a measuring tape. It's more accurate than any alignment rack. I worked as a shop mechanic. I did a lot of alignments on a rack with a computer and sensors that set the shop back $250,000 or so. It's faster on the rack, especially if you have to replace parts, but anything you add like the wheel position sensors detracts from accuracy. A tape measure is still the most accurate. Also, if you wanna be the most accurate on your toe and camber, you need to put weight in the seats where people gonna be setting, at least the driver's seat as there's always a driver. On light two door sports cars, it's a necessity. They're so lightweight that there's a huge camber and slight toe difference with someone in the seat vs not. We were pretty particular with how we did our alignments, so we'd stick someone in the driver's seat on the smallest cars when we were doing an alignment. There was a pretty great crew where I worked at though. A lot of places just don't give a shit.
Keep in mind your also buying common sense and knowledge. Most tire stores don't care and they are repetitious. You care and love learning. I bought a 2013 Toyota Highlander, the salesman said you have brand new tires on this... 7 months later, including 3 tire balancing and 1 4 wheel alignment I was still getting alot of road noise, it road rough and just not good. I finally said the heck with it and bought a set of Falken Wildpeak. The sales guy asked are you sure you want such an agressive tire and not an all season. I asked him if he wanted my business. He also had a really cool tool that read the serial number on my current tires and they were 2 years old. So, the dealership I bought this 2013 from put a set of NEVER driven 2 year old tires on my Highlander. Nice... These dang so called agressive Falkens drive smoother than any highway tire I have ever had and they are quiet. And it drives straight.
When I used to do alignments I did them with the vehicle running so the alignment is set with the power steering pump running. An alignment with the pump off vs pump can make a big difference in steering wheel placement and alignment.
@@spiritlevelstudios it does makes a little bit of sense, in theory. With power steering on: everything cooperates and moves smooth. With power steering off, you can pry one thing and it moves while the rest sits still. Or everything except a couple things move, that are stiff or frozen. Depending on worn bushings or just things seizing up. I live where there is more potholes in a square mile radius then some entire states have. And a lot of rust - bushings, joints, arms, racks, rods and brackets wear out or get bent all the time. And some people can only afford to fix one thing at a time. I know you can’t call a vehicle “properly aligned” unless all suspension parts are 100% in good shape so let’s just say this for the P/S on argument: I’ve seen plenty of cars have intermediate shaft issues. where there’s a lot of play in the steering wheel but it doesn’t move the rack or the wheels. And many customers don’t want to pay for their rack to be removed or subframe dropped just to access and replace the steering shaft.
Most shops don’t offer a two wheel alignment anymore. They are going to hook up all four sensors regardless. Even though there’s no adjustment for the rear you’re still getting the measurements on the entire suspension. You could have a sheered center pin that would be caught by a better alignment machine. But yes, don’t go to Firestone.
As an alignment repair technician the rear on most 4 wheel Alignment systems actually use the rear as a reference point in its calculations regardless of solid rear axle or not. 4 wheel is always better than 2.
A two wheel alignment is done on every car with only two adjustable wheels. All alignments need to read all 4 wheels. A 4 wheel alignment is done on vehicles with 4 adjustable wheels.
@@shaunparsons9610 incorrect, all alignments do not need all 4 wheels. All the major alignment system players in the industry Hunter, Hoffman, John Bean, snap on. Are capable of doing a 2 wheel alignment without the rear targets attached via settings. While the alignment won't be as good they can still do it.
You can get a Alignment rack with the computer and lasers for $10k, might have to look into one of those alignment tools. I'm at the point where I'm getting tired of having to double pay for things due to other peoples errors. I can never find someone around me who I would love to constantly take stuff to, plus when your constantly going in and some sort of suspension work or work that requires suspension to be disconnect it sucks to have to repay for alignment afterword's. and after having to train a tire shop on how to deal with my special Icon Rebound Pro rims and getting charged extra per wheel for mounting I'm considering looking into the tire changing machines with the mount and balance combo for $3k. Cause then I would have unlimited balances and rebalances for free plus be able to set the weights correctly for clearance of the caliper. (life of a 17" on a 16" brake 😆)
Your technical information is outstanding and impressive but more impecable is your kid side by side learning from the very beginning the knowledge required in the industry, " CONGRATULATIONS " ", that is very wise approach in life, at my 71 years of age and been born and raised in the mechanical field on gasoline and diesel I can tell how important that is, your wonderful kid is gathering what's required to become a highly knowledgeable person can become, blessings to you and your love ones, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
I did alignmemnt years ago and used both Bear and Hunter equipment. No matter how sophisticated your equipment is, it is no better that the operator. Also, customers will hit 3 speed bumps and 6 potholes before they have driven 5 miles from the shop and wonder why their new alignment doesn't drive good.
If you can't afford turn plates.. For each side cut 2 tin plates using grease in between. Cut plates big enough to extend a few inches all around bottom of tire that is on the floor.
Best yet - started doing myself on every car and truck with a $100 tool. Paid for itself first time. And here is the situation. The $120 alignment guy could never get my Passat correct. The car was even bought back by Volkswagen due to vibrations in the drivetrain at the same time of the TDI buyback. I found out they must have been using a bad spec because when I aligned it dead, even all the vibrations went away from 0 to 100 miles an hour and even higher if the car would go faster.
As a former Firestone tech who did do alignments I can confirm everything with a straight axle rear that doesn’t use some sort of multi-link system to align the axle does not need an alignment in the rear. If it is fucked enough in the rear to be mis-aligned it needs parts replaced and that’s much more expensive depending on what it is. But I think this is more a store policy/computer issue. I don’t think there’s an option in the computer to just align one axle.
I have personally aligned trucks in my past and the Firestone employee is correct. Though it is atypical to require a rear end alignment on a truck, lifted trucks do need the rear end to be aligned. Some blocks aren't installed completely square and can cause the rear end to dog track and need the block locator pins to be ground out to create a slot so the rear end tracks straight.
Same adjustment points as my 1960 Mopar cars. With the wishbone upper control arm, you have the two bushings with eccentric cams which move each end in and out laterally. With those two variables, you can set both camber and caster. We get the most caster possible (rear side in max) and even then need special Moog offset bushings to get enough caster for radial tires (old bias ply would deflect backwards when driving). Camber is more of a driver's choice, as witnessed by the extreme neg camber in some tuner cars. Factory spec for mine was actually slight pos camber (tops lean out) but I set a slight neg camber. Not all cars allow adjusting both caster and camber using adjusters, and might require shim plates. Toe-in setting is the most critical for handling and to avoid tread wear. If the front and rear tracks are the same, you can quickly check toe-in by holding a straight-edge along the front tire and sight at the rear tire. You want the sight hitting ~1" off the rear tire for RWD and ~1" inward for FWD (easier, at 1st tread channel in my minivan). For exact, use a tape measure on fwd and aft side of front tires, as shown, but can just use the channels in the tires rather than the bolt on fixtures. The purpose of setting any toe-in is to account for play in the suspension. You need less if all parts (bushings and ball-joints) are new and tight.
The Alignment machine aligns the front by comparing the front to the back axles. The rear axles can move. The little stud on the springs doesn’t fit tight. I went to the Hunter Alignment School I’m not just guessing. This tool looks great
I went to Hunter alignment school as well. Graduated class of Thursday 3 o’clock! The amount of movement you get out of the tie bolt isn’t enough to even take the rear axle out of manufacturer’s spec.
@@edgardaniels1402 an aftermarket lift isn’t necessarily in spec. I was just informing that the alignment machine takes its measurements off of the rear axle. I’m also a graduate of of 3 o/Clock A** H*** school as well.
@@kevincoulter6475 I built that school! Wasn’t arguing the points of reference the machine measures. His technique doesn’t require using the rear axle. Using the rear axle isn’t necessary for front end alignment.
@@kevincoulter6475 Been doing it for 30 years, done it just about every way possible. Manually like the video, plum Bob and string, Bee Line, and Hunter.
I ended up doing exactly the same thing. Bought laser alighmrnt kit for 1400 GBP, plus turn plates, steering wheel level, camber and caster measuring tool, all because local garage only adjust toe. Not chamber or caster. It's a real problem in England with all the potholes, knocking out the tracking on cars and garages avoiding doing the work properly as they don't want to spend the time on it.
Not plugging Firestone but I get free lifetime alignment, tire rotation and tire repair. The truck is you have to go to a manager or upper person and ask to make sure it's all done well. As he said sometimes you don't get the brightest person. They have been super good to me though, also saved me 600 bucks for something another garage was 1700 and I only ended up paying 1100 at fire stone in the end
If you have a bent wheel you're going to have bad alignment alignment shops don't check that and if you get this tool make sure you check your wheels it's very important
@@frankz5864 I worked doing alignments we found out that if the wheel was bent 1/4" the customer didn't feel anything but that give me a .5 degree difference (you want a perfect alignment right?) An overweight person would give me 1° to 2°difference that much did worn-out the tires And not to mention that the road has a built in rounded off edge to help channel the rain water away That would throw out the alignment These situations where not in the alignment equipment manual
@@cuda6496 An overweight person throws the alignment out? You don’t align a car with the driver in it and a 1/4 buckle would be much more pronounced in a 12in hatchback tyre than a 18in alloy. I have a little runabout with a bent alloy on the front wheel at the Moment and I can definitely feel it and the buckle is barely noticeable by eye. it gets pronounced at about 70mph so I thought it was a balance problem and I rebalanced it and yeah I could see the buckle when I spun it up on the balancer at work.
If you were to use a piece of string. Cross both back tires and then up to the front on both sides. Center the steering wheel and adjust the fronts to touch the string evenly. It would be straight. Relative to the rear.
I had replace my both lower control arms,both upper control arms, both struts, both ball joints, and i took my suv to big 0 tires for aglinment and they didn't know what a camber bolts means, my camber are underneath my suv theres three bolts and it's injustabled, big 0 tires was trying to spam me with sum camber bolt that cost $129 and that two bolts doesn't go anywhere on my sepension, there also trying to charge me $600 all together with aglinment, i was like am going to Firestone and they know what a camber was and camber bolts, they injust my camber perfect and cost me $130 for aglinment, but after Firestone finish my aglinment, i took my torque wrench and i torque specs my lower control arms bolts ,195 lbs, but Firestone did better then big 0 tires, great video man 👍🏻
Great vid. I don't want to do my own alignments but Im looking into it now. I typically bolt on new arms, coli-overs, etc and took it in but over the past couple years I can no longer find an honest shop or you need to jump from shop to shop because they are no longer honest but this other guy is running an honest shop, for now. Nice garage, I wish I could fit my truck in my Garage.
A 4 wheel alignment is not just for adjusting the rear it is to align the centerline of the vehicle so both front and back are going in the same direction, a 2 wheel alignment is a toe alignment so both front tires go in the same direction but all new vehicles use a steering angle sensor and the ABS, Cruise control and traction control all use it to know where the front tires are pointed so if you only do a 2 wheel alignment you may have issues with everything else.
Can’t believe they wanted to charge you a 4 wheel alignment. When a thrust angle alignment is the best that is offered. That’s Firestone for you. They’ll also align your vehicle without checking the suspension as well. Who knew?!!
I haven't been to a Firestone store since about 1981. I took a Dodge Aspen to the one at Weatherly Road and Memorial Parkway in Huntsville, Alabama, for alignment and a grease job. I waited in the waiting area until they got done and paid them. Going home, the car still pulled to the left, so I suspected that they hadn't done anything. I checked the grease fittings. Some were still covered in dirt. None had been touched. I took it back to them, and they did the grease job. But since I couldn't trust them anymore to do something as important as alignment, I took it to another place for that and haven't been back to Firestone for anything since. My advice is that no one take ANYTHING to them, ever.
great job on the video- I learned plenty. I also learned that unless you change your suspension every other week, spending $900 is hard to justify. On the other hand, doing it yourself is why most of us are even here. I'll stick with my tape measure and string. Anyway- great video- well done.
I'm doing a front end suspension rebuild currently on my 2008 Silverado 3500hd 4x4 DRW to include new hubs. The nearest alignment shop is some 50 miles away and down hill some 3,000 feet here in the Colorado Rocky's. Alignment job is approximately $100 and the round trip is about $60 in gas (6.0L engine) along with, a guy that seems "sketchy" doing the job. lol I'm glad your channel came up as a recommendation! It's cheaper to rebuild a dually than to buy another!
I'm a technician and on those camber and caster slides they require a plastic spacer after doing alignment, so it won't move out of specs, and you shouldn't need to do more than 1 alignment per year unless you're doing several modifications.
Here's the thing I charge 34.95 guaranteed six months been doing 40 yrs. Also hd trucks. The reason four wheel alignments aid. Is knowing axle housing bent. Center bolt issues. But also thrust angle pos or neg. I get quick trick. I hv one as well gd video. Wld have like to see ur caster lil higher on rt side versus left for road crown but it wrkd so kudos to u. Also most don't know changing tires and no alignment will cause huge tire wear, if offset is changed.
I do alignments for a living. When i am using a torch, cheater bars and sledgehammers as well as replacing cam bolts it's worth it. My shop charges $130 for an alignments. And you are very correct, you don't align the rear end on a Silverado.
I saw his truck and was thinking this mf'er has never had to break those cam bolts out of a 98 silverado. No wonder he said it's so "easy". Typically you don't do the rear, but I've had to adjust thrust angles that were extreme.
I feel your pain on finding a competent alignment place. Try getting an alignment on my Trailblazer SS and get told there is no camber adjustment. Then I have to show them how to do their job. Most places set toe and send it out the door unfortunately.
Rear wheel alignment is a real thing even on trucks with a solid rear axle, especially on lifted trucks, haven't you ever been behind a truck and you can actually see it dog track, it's always because the rear axle has shifted in the spring saddles and it doesn't take much, the rear wheels are what makes a vehicle drive and track straight, the front suspension and steering are what gives you control, that is a sweet front end on your truck because you have so much adjustment on your castor most vehicles don't even have adjustable castor or very little of it, oversized wheels and tires change suspension geometry and the only way to compensate for that is with highly adjustable suspension like you have, the money you spent on the alignment equipment you'll make up for with much better and longer lasting tire wear, good vehicle tires are quite pricey but truck tires can take that cost to a whole nother level.
The Tire Discounters in my area offers wheel alignments for a one and done or you can get a 3 or 5 year wheel alignment package. I recently purchased the 5 year wheel alignment package for a little under 200$ and I had the 3 year package but it expired in May of this year. Awesome tool you got there! Also very nice garage and setup!
GM of a Tire Discounters in Kentucky here- good pick going with the 3-5 year alignment plan. Saves so much money for our customers, can’t recommend it enough.
i remember years ago I was trying to buy one of those and they were like $1200.. possibly a different company.. I AM BUYING THAT THANK YOU SO MUCH I SUBBED. i have a black ZL1 1LE too... very cool
I hate paying people to do things that I can or should be able to do myself - so I love this - much rather pay for a tool like this to DIY alignments than pay for Firestone's lifetime alignment that never gets done right anyway
With a few pieces of aluminum, some metal rulers, and digital levels, it is not hard to make your own alignment tool for less than $100. I don't bother with caster because most cars have virtually no caster adjustment, and IMO you can't have to much caster (unless you don't want better steering feel and front end grip). You also need something to keep the steering wheel centered. It is also a good idea to check wheel run out, if you have a damaged bearing or slightly bent rim, that can completely mess up your alignment. When you are done the first time or two you can take it to a shop just to "check" your alignment to see if it is close. Most shops will do it for free or maybe charge around $25. Once you are confident your alignment is reasonably close to the pro rack device, then you don't have to bother with that going forward. But if you are doing it for the first time it is a good idea to verify what you did, The vehicle can track straight and still be off more than you want, and you won't know until you see your tires wearing funny. I found I can get to within .03 degrees (or less) of what the pro racks measure, but it took me 2-3 tries to work out the kinks. It takes a bit of practice and refining your technique, but once you get it figured out...
In firestones defense I have nothing but good luck with mine. Yea the paying for a 4 wheel alignment thing is dumb but when I buy a new car or truck one of the first things I do is buy the lifetime alignment for 200.00 and I can take it in as many times as I want for the entire time I own the vehicle. I know the guys up there and the manager has done a very good job of staffing it with experienced technicians. Unfortunately, I think the Firestone I use is the best and the one you have is the worst. Makes advocating for them tough and I would have the same opinion as you do if I had your experience with them. Just saying not all of em are crap.
Firestone are st8 scammers. Will refuse to do the work because supposedly it needs a bolt to be replaced cus its seized but went to another shop nd they got it done no issues. Lifetime my ass
It still baffles me that an 18 yr old with zero experience/schooling can work at Walmart changing tires. No shade to the 18 yr old. Its just wild to know that something so vital can be done by people with zero experience/skill.
when your are a professional fabricator or machinest measuring to 0.015 of an inch is no problem ...its routine...more than accurate for an alignment ...its all geometry, if you know what your doing you can be very accurate..you dont need a kit either ...use scrap aluminum ect and clamps ect
Though what they don't tell you is the toe and steering wheel adjusted to keep you straight in regards to the crown of the road. Hence why your wheel was never "perfectly straight" and was probably a bit turned left to keep it "climbing the hill" without needing input
@@LonestarHawaiian Yeah around here we say, they spat in the holes again for what they do for "patch work" though with the amount of roundabouts one can learn to drift easier now lol
This is exactly what I’m looking for, the tools. I shipped my truck from El Paso, TX to Germany and I’m about to lift my truck. I like doing things on my own as well. Much mahalos.
I purchased the lifetime alignment from Firestone ($299) for our 2002 Landcruiser. I've found that each store has had different results. They are minute; however, it definitely pays to find the best one in your area.
I used to think Firestone was a great deal for alignments since they actually have the special gear to handle my car...until the dude decided having negative camber wasn't needed and I ended up rubbing and then creasing my front fender. I take it to a race shop now. They are still decent for oil changes and the Penzoil Platiinum is a respected good brand.
HAHA my 3yo has that same dragon toy! EDIT: As a side note, in racing while at the track. We measure our strings from the hub on the wheel to ensure our strings are even right to left. Of course our cars have hub cones to make pit stops easier. So of course that makes it easier for measurement purposes. Ken was a good guy, only met him a handful of times as I work in a completely different race series but I did cross paths a couple of times. And it was sad news indeed. May he RIP and his family find peace.
@wannabecarguy That's that particular Race Car Engineer's job during P Session's. Pit Crew/Mechanics job is to setup it up the way the Engineer and Drivers want it after all the data is collected from the Session. Then go back out and do it again for however many Practice Session's are available that race weekend before Qualifying and Race. "IMSA Sports Car Racing"
Great video.Lifted trucks changes everything… 100$ is not a lot for a 4 wheel alignment. Mine starts at a min150$ for a 4 wheel. If it’s lifted or lowered we charge more! Best of luck
Great video. It's hard to imagine that they would only charge you the 'standard' amount for the alignment on a custom truck. Maybe you spent more on the cost of this kit in the short term, but if you use it a few times it will start to save money. Plus you know you can do it right vs. rolling the dice on who is actually assigned to work on your truck......
Turntable plates: $169, wheel bracket/gauge mounts: $120, toe plates: $49, digital gauge: $50. Total: $388 Asked my Firestone center about getting performance alignment on my BRZ. They told me their equipment was a joke and I should go somewhere else, LOL.
So, some adjustments can be made in the rear if the alignment tech knows what he/she is doing. Yes, big if. It is common on aftermarket suspension parts for the lift and lowering kits to have oversized locating pin holes for the rear leaf and undersized locating pins for the axle. When installed, if the rear axle is not taped out for square. It will need to be shifted during the alignment. I have done alignments for a living for almost 20 years. I am not saying that the shop was not trying something. I'm just saying that if they checked the alignment and saw the rear was out, they may have been doing the right thing. I have even had to shift a rear axle on a totally factory setup because it was out of square. I had a printout of the front and rear current numbers to back up my claim tho. With that being said I love the logic behind buying the diy tools and it is a great thing to be able to do your self when have altered ride height vehicle and are surrounded by shops that can't effectively do more then a toe and go alignment.
Just a thought.. Firestone offers a lifetime allignment for $149.00 so you can have it adjusted as offen as you like for FREE as long as you own the vehicle. Plus it is honored nation wide.
Lol they some scammers. They gonna be like oh we can adjust it gotta replace this nd that nd refuse to align the car cus they cant. But take it some where else nd pay nd theyll do it no problem. Firestone are 🤡🤡🤡🤡
cool video. going to get an alignment in the next week and wish I had something like this but I agree with your review on it that it seems too expensive and could be built to measure more reliably.
I eyeballed my alignment on my 2011 Silverado to get it close after I installed a 7.5” lift on it. I would say it wasn’t bad. But you’re right it never rides perfect til everything is in spec then it’s 👌🏻. Love this Channel. Love the rides. 👍🏻
You absolutely CAN align the rear end on a solid rear axle vehicle with leaf springs. Just not in it's stock configuration. You either need alignment plates that allow for movement between the leaf spring perches and leaf springs, or adjustment plates for the leaf spring shackle anchor points. Not something you're gonna find on 99.999% of trucks, even after they've been modified. Though amazon has this same design tool from the same company for under $200....🤭
so what you are saying, is you don't know what a four wheel alignment really is. I know this because you understand that is putting the FOUR wheels in LINE! With old cars we loosened the steering wheel so that we could put it back on in the straight position out on the road, that can not be done with cars of today. People don't realize that what we were doing in the 80's and 90's with the light beam alignments was aligning the front wheels with the rear wheels ( a four wheel alignment ). I performed tens of thousands of them with light beams or the old rod method for more years than I care to remember. But you are right about finding someone to do a proper alignment, most of what you get is a set the toe and let it go, that you can do in your dirt driveway with a tape measure. The alignment doesn't make money, it's the repairs that do so shops don't want the proper amount of time spent on the alignment. The faster you can get it down and out, the more money you make. Speed is king.
My mechanic sees our cars once a year for state inspection. I have him do an alignment as well $80 a pop...least I could do to support a local garage. I do a lot in house...this where I draw the line .
They have the 5th Gen posted up now. About $800 to $900. Seems like a nice little kit, but a lot of money for what you're getting. I feel like that should be more like $200. Alternatively you could use what quite a few of us Jeep guys use: masking tape, a sharpie, and a tape measure; adjust toe to your liking.
Gm tech 7 years sadly there’s not many of us that want to do a good job and be good no one staying in Manuel labor fields, but good kit will say the only thing about the kit would be the toe as I can see how someone can mess up that last adjustment just changing one side not both
Will also note all the big alignment racks the cups can always be a little off bent wheels and not centered perfect to wheels so there’s variance there and that does add to the quick shops and bad experiences people have
Got to get this. I’m always dissatisfied by the shop alignments. I usually just give up. Went to the Volvo dealer shop 6 times with my XC90 and they never got it right. 5 first times weren’t even close.
So I know it takes some extra effort but the real cheap diy alignment kit is simple. Get a measuring tape with tightest increments possible, a chalk line, some string and a pen with some weight to it, some paper, and some masking tape. It's a lot to explain in a comment but you can either get your actual measurements online or get a profesional alignment and mark where everything should be. (Chalk line helps here, string and pen help here) your basically measuring the where the tires sit in relation to the car with the steering wheel straight. Once you know where it's supposed to sit you can simply check if the measurements match up in 3 months and if they do you are still aligned. If you are really good at parkin you could literally mark your garage permanently but idk anyone that good lol. You gotta be precise and it's cheap and simple but not necessarily easy. It's essentially what most race car crews do that aren't big enough to afford a mobile hunter alignment machine. I know I definitely didn't fully explain it here but I'm sure someone can find a video explaining it, he'll probably one recorded at UNOH where I learned it.
I'm one of the last wheel alignment mechanics left at 76. The equipment you purchased doesn't work. Even on real equipment your tires will still wear. If you draw an imaginary line from upper ball joint through lower ball joint it has to hit the pavement in the center of the tire. Your's doesn't and tires will continue to wear. There is ONLY one alignment specification. Go cart, Ferrari, or concrete truck, it never changes. I can do a correct total alignment with a piece of string and a quart of oil.
Right on! Money well spent IMO. Most alignments are done incorrectly by "malignant shops" in my experiance. Just a waste of money and time. Always amazes me how with all that expensive alignment equipment they manage to screw it up most of the time. I hate to take my vehicles to one because I have never had it done correctly. Steering wheel not centered, Pulling to one side, tire wear (expensive but you won't know until much later). Lost all trust in them years ago. When it comes to toe and centering the steering wheel I set that myself now or correct it after I get an alignment.
Yes its true that you can't align the rear but with readings from the rear you can adjust the fronts to no only wear correctly but also drive straight. If the rear is tweaked a little bit and you only put sensors up front you could end up with the vehicle pulling and or a crooked steering wheel
