Peter and Walter and reunion doesn't quite how Peter expected scene from Novation Fringe belongs to Warner Bros. Entertainment No Copyright InFRINGEment intended.
Yeah me too. I think that Peter would be very different because he was a catalyst for so many things, I think Walter wouldn't have lost his mind and be more like Walternate, his mom would be alive but I do believe his brave and bold personality that this Peter has wouldn't exist. This peter is an traveler, an adventure seeker and goes against normal parameters. I think the original Peter would be just a professor at MIT with a bad relationship with Walter probably
@Damon242 Thank you, I tried explaining this multiple times to people and no one seems to get it, he built the machine off of the blueprints written in an ancient or alien language, then sent it to the past. The key here is the blueprint and the scroll with Olivia and Peter in it were not written by Walter hence the alien language.
@toneFT I really hope it makes sense. I'd happily be wrong if it means that the show does well. I haven't invested three years in this show just to give up on it. Thanks for the support.
@Damon242 the second quote i used it taken right out of the show, i love how you choose to ignore that part because you know you are wrong, the machine came from the first people, the machine was created by the first people, we ARE the first people, WALTER is specifically the first people. the fact that only peter can make it is makes more sense that his dad, who loves him so much and trusts his own son to make the right choices in his final decisions unlike he could when he tried to save peter
@daspoon456 "walter creates the machine sometime in 2026, then sent it back in time for the fringe division to find and try to change what happens, hence what walter was saying in the finale" you realize that the paradox requires the ability for the machine to be sent back to the past from the future, and with a reason. Something along the lines of a wormhole, for instance. Since the machine still exists, even in this new timeline, clearly the future is destined to be destructive...
@Damon242 they said it in the show too though! when peter was like we are the first people' or whatever, walter creates the machine sometime in 2026, then sent it back in time for the fringe division to find and try to change what happens, hence what walter was saying in the finale. the whole point of the machine was walter finding a way for peter to come to 2026 before it happened so he could change thing, he went to 2011 changed thing, and now 2 universes are combined or in a truce,
@toneFT thats because on the blueprint and scroll they arent in a foreign language, the pictures with peter. olivia and the machine have dna sequences in the background of them.
@Damon242 in the original timeline it was revealed that walter had built the machine, something peter realized when he was sent into the future and walter explained it all to him at the season 3 finale.
@Damon242 the first people we a people who had avanced tech, showing the machine was not created until the future, where there is advanced tech. i was saying walter made the machine for peter because he trusted his son would make better decisions for the worlds fate than he did when he tried to save peter. it makes complete sense that it was walter, his own father, rather than sonme random ancient person who for some reason made peter the only way the machine could operate.
@daspoon456 When he said that they were the first people, he was talking about how they existed in the past (via the wormhole) as opposed to another civilization having existed and then been wiped out. The machine, the documents, all of that stuff is part of the paradox - that does not mean that the First People created them (the only notion of that coming from Sam Weiss' books which of course, after 'The Last Sam Weiss', it was revealed that the authors didn't know the complete story).
@Damon242 he clearly says he never knew how the machine got buried, until he blantantly states "how did they get there, now i know....i sent them there!" implying that he was the creator of the machine, and in the recap videos it clearly states that walter made the machine in and in the show that him, along with whoever else ends up endng the machine beack through the wormhole were in fact the first people, just rewatch the finale and the "fringe, past, present, and future" vids and it will tell
@daspoon456 The quote you used: "but finally he realized who the first people were, it was walter, and the machine was his creation!" That's the producers speaking, not a line of dialogue out of the series. "just because you dont understand it doesnt mean its a polt hole" A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.
@daspoon456 "other than what you THINK" no, that's you. I took the quotes literally, I didn't inject any wild theories. When Walter tells them it's a paradox, it's a paradox. When Peter says they're the first people, he's only repeating Walter
@vaffancolor86 I think you meant to respond to the other guy. The machine is a paradox (at least, that's what Walter claimed - he didn't actually have any evidence to back up that a paradox was actually the case), it doesn't necessarily need to have ever been constructed. Fringe has become a mess recently, and more and more holes in logic and plot are appearing. I really hope that the writers can pull there act together, before its too late.
@ilikegames44 Walter doesn't say to Peter that he built the machine. I quoted the dialogue before, but feel free to watch the scene again. All he says is that he thinks he might be responsible for the machine being sent back through time, making it a paradox. When Peter returns from the future he explains that he doesn't know which one sent it back through time (his actual dialogue), but that he believes they are the First People - like Walter.
@daspoon456 "i was saying walter made the machine for peter because he trusted his son would make better decisions for the worlds fate than he did when he tried to save peter. it makes complete sense that it was walter, his own father, rather than sonme random ancient person who for some reason made peter the only way the machine could operate" And what I'm saying is that Walter never built the machine, therefore these reasons for doing so are irrelevant.
@daspoon456 Peter: "the machine? I turned that on fifteen years ago" Walter: "and all that time I sat in prison I couldn't figure out where it came from, I knew the pieces were buried millions of years ago, but how did they get there? So deep in the past? But now I understand...I sent them there! The wormhole in central park; I sent them back through time!" Yep, totally sounds like "I built the machine!"
im not quoting the producers, im takeing a line out of the exact show, just because you dont understand it doesnt mean its a polt hole. no astrid and ella arent scientists, but they were both fringe agents in the future so being a sicentist doesnt mean anything. did you ever notice that NO ONE agrees with your theories except one person on this one video. everyone else has no trouble realizing that walter built the machine because they actually know how to watch a show and look for answers.
@Damon242 the machine still extsist but the whole reason it exists is for a different reason. just like everything is slightly different. like how walters wife died but olivia never knew, how the other broyles never died, how alit olivia is still with her old boyfriend, and how peter is not going to be ablt to use the mahcine inthis timeline since he never existed in it, and it was always said the machine could be used as creater/destroyer, mabye the future will be creation u dont know.
@daspoon456 "the fact that only peter can make it is makes more sense that his dad, who loves him so much and trusts his own son to make the right choices in his final decisions unlike he could when he tried to save peter " ...you may need to write that again, it doesn't make sense.
@daspoon456 Walter never said "I built the machine", therefore he didn't built it. But you, on the other hand, you hear that as "I built the machine!" and Peter's repeat of it as "all Fringe agents can do anything they want like building a universe-shaping machine!"
@daspoon456 The First People are the ones that carried the machine and documents through time, but they are not the creators of any of the things they are carrying.
@daspoon456 See, if I picked a diamond off of the ground right now, sent it back in time, then after years and years that diamond ends up right where I picked it up, does that mean I made the diamond? No, it just means I sent a diamond back in time.
@daspoon456 "the machine came from the first people" no, the Weiss' books claimed that the First People discovered the Vacuum, not that they created it. "we ARE the first people, WALTER is specifically the first people" Yes, at least only if Walter was correct about his unsubstantiated claim that the machine was a paradox.
@daspoon456 "walter made both so that they would be quantum entangled and if peter decided to take the route of destruction he would destroy the alt univserse." where the heck did you get that information from?
@Damon242 "but finally he realized who the first people were, it was walter, and the machine was his creation!" "walter i understand everything now, the machine, it came from-" "the first people." "yes walter, but the first people are US, YOU specifically, and ella, and maybe astrid, i dont know who else may have hepled. blah bla blah." amen.
@toneFT you guys just dont understand anything, walter made the machine, in the futre and sent it through thr wormhole, he and whoever sent it back were the first people, yet the books were not written by him but somone who found out about the first people and was studying them (probably one of the sam weisses)walter made both so that they would be quantum entangled and if peter decided to take the route of destruction he would destroy the alt univserse. and the books werent in alien langueages
@Damon242 i never claimed the contrary, but now that you mention it someone else did try telling you walter built the machine in the future, but i dont feel like shuffling through all these pointless comments to see who that was
@daspoon456 "the first people we a people who had avanced tech, showing the machine was not created until the future, where there is advanced tech" That's what the Weiss' books said, but they didn't actually know what was going on. We didn't actually have advanced tech, unless of course you expected the wormhole to stay open forever and for Walter to not die from old age. Remember, it was only twenty or something years ahead in the future, and the world was not that different.
@daspoon456 Things are different because Peter was absent. That's the entire point of the conversation between Walter and September in 'Firefly'. The machine is still the one that Peter used, the one that only he can use, and the one that created the bridge as per Peter's intention (which is where the writers don't seem to understand how paradoxes work, because it doesn't make sense). The bridge exists because of Peter. And this mess exists because the writers don't know what they're doing.
@Damon242 anyway, i am done with this arugement, its like smashing your face into a brick wall over and over again and hoping for a different result. u will just have to accept the fact that you are from a different reality then the other 99.9999999% of fringe fans (minus you) and the show you are watching is different than ours.
@Damon242 If what daspoon says is true then it's bad writing (still waiting for them to explain the device that burrowed itself when they first showed the observer in season 1). If true then: Walter built it, sent it back in time and then rebuilt it in the present, he at some point went to the other universe in the past and put the machine in both universes lol and instead of writing the blueprint and scroll in English wrote them in an alien language for no reason lol. Does that make sense?
@Damon242 thus 2026 future never happened as we saw it. you need to pay attetion to this show more or better yet stop watching it. u are clearly not a fan of it, yet watch every episode and go on multiple message boards just to point out what you think are plot holes and complain about them. there is something wrong with you. and if the writers said it would i listen, gee yeah considering they, created everything that happens in the fringeverse.
@Damon242 yeah, but once again you provide no real evidence to support yours, other than what you THINK, when i actually have stuff to support mine, but you just dont want to listen
@daspoon456 "he clearly says he never knew how the machine got buried, until he blantantly states "how did they get there, now i know....i sent them there!" implying that he was the creator of the machine" no, that implies that he's the guy who found (or actually, just thinks he found) a way to send a pre-existing machine back in time. He never physically built it, which is what it means to create something.
@daspoon456 I don't care what they said, they don't know what they're on about (hence why this mess exists). Tell me when Walter built the machine(s)? I know that Walternate and Massive Dynamic constructed the machine using the pieces they found, but where does Walter's little machine pop in? How does Walter even do it? Why the symbols on the machine itself? The machine already exists by the time he thinks it's a paradox, so when did he built the thing? Think! Don't just quote the producers.
@daspoon456 Unfortunately not. That entire conversation is about how Walter believes that the machine is a paradox, and that he is one of the ones responsible - if not the one, for its existence. Being responsible for the genesis of a paradox does not equate to having actually built the machine.
@ilikegames44 just dont even bother with him, arguing with him is like beating your head on a brick wall. he is all over almost every message board under different names trying to point out what he thinks are plot holes, even when there is evidence that he is wrong, he just doe not want to believe it.
@rafaelsolis He thinks he sent it back in time, creating a paradox. He doesn't think, nor does he state, nor the show ever show, that he built the machine. The writers can't even follow their own story, yet they expect us to.
@Damon242 this is like fighting with a little kid on a topic he doesnt understand. good god. i am done. but should point out once again you never quoted anything but me and picked apart what i said to try to prove i was wrong, made fun of the writers, made fun of the writers, made fun of the writers, picked apart what i was saying, was the extent of your agruement, i told you an exact thing on the show, id you dont believe me, Look it up, y u havent already, u know your wrong, simple really.
@daspoon456 "when i actually have stuff to support mine, but you just dont want to listen" What stuff? The quote that doesn't actually say what you claim is says, and can't use anyway because apparently, according to you, quoting the show doesn't count as "real evidence". What else? The Producer's comments? Oh yes, the people who, if they make a mistake, aren't going to admit to it. After all, like I keep saying, the mess exists because of them. What else? Nothing. No "stuff".
@daspoon456 You're quoting the producers, I told you that it doesn't count. And where do you think Peter got that information from? Walter. And what did Walter say? That they sent the machine back in time, creating a paradox. Hence why Astrid and Ella are involved in Peter's bit of dialogue there, because they certainly aren't scientists! What you said is not evidence for your argument, but evidence that you completely misunderstood what Peter was talking about during that scene.
@daspoon456 Walter did not built the machine - there are no scenes, no dialogue, no evidence within the series that can support such a claim. You can keep denying it if you wish, but it remains and will remain unsubstantiated.
@daspoon456 "why would i leave this show" seriously? you couldn't follow that? You just said that you were giving up on this argument, synonymous with leaving, so I responded. Jesus, really? How did that confuse you? "you haven given ANY evidence" except, I dunno, quoted the entire scene that this entire argument rests upon - which didn't stand to reveal at all that Walter built the machine, only that he thinks it's a paradox.
@daspoon456 "but should point out once again you never quoted anything but me and picked apart… " you responded to my quoting the show and then claimed that I never quoted at all. You applied your own theories to dialogue in the show and tried to pass them off as fact. Your theories defied the logic of the show in question and were unsubstantiated, as your only evidence was a line of dialogue that didn't match your theory in the slightest.
@daspoon456 Not all of them. Walternate's is in another language, there is another language written on the machine, the boxes containing the pieces, etc. Walter did not built it. Fine me evidence that he built it! Because the only thing he ever says is that he thinks that the machine is a paradox - and that he is responsible for creating the paradox by sending it through the wormhole. He never made it. And not once does he ever claim to have ever made it!
@daspoon456 The moment anyone else sees your claims that they did not exist, or sees the statistics pulled out of your arse and the dozens of references to things never having occurred on the programme in question, they'll know that debating with you is a waste of time. Heck, one has already done just that.
@daspoon456 If the producers said in a video that Walter was a woman that had a sex change, and were serious - and it contradicted everything within the show, would you believe them just because it was them who said it?
@daspoon456 "did you ever notice that NO ONE agrees with your theories except one person on this one video." did you ever notice that no one has agreed with your comments, but that I got at least one. "everyone else has no trouble realizing that walter built the machine because they actually know how to watch a show and look for answers" where are these supporters of yours? Heck, you don't even know how to correctly follow lines of dialogue, let alone understand how a paradox operates.
@daspoon456 "this is like fighting with a little kid on a topic he doesnt understand. good god" It would be more appropriate if you said that about yourself, as kids tend make up a lot of things - like Walter Bishop saying that he built the machine. "i am done" second time you've said that, just don't confuse yourself this time. Last time was embarrassing on your part.
@daspoon456 Chill out man, he has the right to express his opinion just like you have the right to express yours no need to start cussing and throwing insults. I'm positive it will all make sense in the end but as of right now we have the right to speculate.
@daspoon456 It may be hard for your to believe, daspoon456, but the writers of Fringe have actually created numerous plot holes, and have contradicted their own established mythology. You see, in the end, the difference between you and I is that I take dialogue and scenes as they are, I don't inject my own wild theories and plot-hole patch-ups and pass them all off as fact.
@daspoon456 "thus 2026 future never happened as we saw it. you need to pay attetion to this show more or better yet stop watching it. u are clearly not a fan of it, yet watch every episode and go on multiple message boards just to point out what you think are plot holes and complain about them" unjustified, and I do pay attention - and I understand the concept of paradoxes. Because I pay attention, I see the plot holes, and I am clearly not confused as to the nature of how paradoxes work
@daspoon456 "did you ever notice that NO ONE agrees with your theories except one person on this one video" That's claiming the contrary. Someone? Well, then that would give you one person - equal to me. Still doesn't add any credibility to the aforementioned statement made by you.
@daspoon456 Leave then, because obviously you now realize that there is no evidence within the series that actually backs up what you're saying - that Walter built the machine No scenes, no actual dialogue, just a claim by Peter that they are the First People - the ones who "discovered the vacuum" - all of this told to him by Walter, who claimed that it was a paradox - not that he ever built the thing An unsubstantiated excuse, that's what you have, for a show only pretending to be smart.
@daspoon456 So leave, daspoon456, as you have announced you would twice. By "leave", share a brain cell and don't confuse that with "stop watching the show" - not synonymous, even in the slightest. In future, learn to pay attention, learn to apply logic and reason, and try not to make such an embarrassment of yourself.
No! Walter did NOT build the machine! And why does Peter even think that!? I seriously cannot express how greatly I desired to track down the writers and beat them over the head with a rock while watching this scene...
